Lawsuit says PA school violated free-speech rights

[Judi Lynn]

Lawsuit says PA school violated free-speech rights
Mon May 23, 2005 5:51 PM ET


By Jon Hurdle

PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania school district violated the free-speech rights of a parent who was prevented from reading the Bible to her son's kindergarten class, an attorney for the woman said on Monday.
The parent, Donna Busch, has filed a lawsuit against the Marple Newtown School District near Philadelphia, claiming her constitutional rights were breached when a school principal stopped her reading from the Bible in a class last October.

Busch, of Newtown Square, Pennsylvania, attended her son Wesley's class as part of "Me Week," which gave parents an opportunity to read aloud from their child's favorite book.
(snip)

Ed Partridge, president of the school's board of directors, said Busch would have broken the law if she read the Bible because it would have amounted to a promotion of religion.

He accused the Rutherford Institute of seeking publicity. "Their goal is to generate national media headlines. They don't have any care about our community," he said.
(snip/...)

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2005-05-23T215124Z_01_N23248699_RTRIDST_0_USREPORT-RIGHTS-BIBLE-DC.XML

[mitchtv]

1. I wonder what would happen if

a parent brought in "Heather has two moms" to read

[HockeyMom]

4. They didn't read two Moms,

but there was a little girl in class whose two Moms did come in to read before the class I in was working in. Obviously, they didn't have to read it. They were living proof of it.

I wonder what the Fundies would do? Throw the little girl out of class? Ban her Moms from ever coming in to the school?

[silverojo]

7. Too bad someone's favorite book wasn't the Koran

I wonder how that would've gone over, being read aloud in class. ;)

[bluestateguy]

2. Tough call

If she was going to lead the children in a prayer, that would be unconstitutional.

If the assingment, which has a clear secular purpose, is to read from your child's favorite book then I'm not so sure you can bar somebody from simply reading a verse from a book.

But then maybe a lot would depend on what the language was in the verse.

I'm undecided.

[rfranklin]

6. If the Bible is that kid's favorite book, I'll eat it with ketchup on top

While I have no objection to her reading the Bible (which would mostly sound like gibberish to the class of kindergardeners), it is obvious that this woman was there to promote her religious views.

[havocmom]

9. Using her kid and lying to do it too.

Maybe that is why they are so against abortion? They like having lots of kids around to exploit!

[no_hypocrisy]

8. The standard for the Establishment Clause within a public school

setting has been that a representative of the school (e.g., principal, teacher, board of ed trustee) cannot say or do anything that endorses religion generally. Otherwise it looks as though the public school (and hence the government) is promoting religion upon impressionable minds (and captive audiences as school attendance is statutorily mandatory).

The cases have been split in the different courts of appeals: if the same message is delivered by one of the students to other students as the student is a loose cannon and won't be viewed as representing the school but is acting independently thereof, then the message is permissible sppech. Other courts have ruled it's the message itself that needs to be withheld from the public school classroom during official school hours. So the issue has been split between the content of the message and the messenger.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluzmann57]

3. On the one hand we have a freedom of speech issue here

but it is a public school district, paid for by tax dollars, and this could possibly violate the separation of church and state. Tough issue. My feeling is that if the lady wants her child to have a religious education, then maybe they should send him to a religious school, and/or make sure he gets it at home. But their right to free speech is sacred and should not be violated. Maybe someone should ask the kid what he thinks. I know he's only in Kindergarten and probably doesn't really get it, but he still has a right to think on his own.

[LifeDuringWartime]

21. my guess is

he will say whatever mommy tells him to say.

[China_cat]

5. Fine line there.

Since the mom is not a teacher, member of the school board or school official, it isn't the same as having one of those promoting religion...which is what is prohibited. I don't know if you could call the school complicit unless they knew and approved the bible reading before hand.

Much as I would hate to see it happen without arrangements made for readings from the other holy books of the world's religions, I think the case should be decided for her.

[havocmom]

10. And if a kid's parent insisted the 'kid's favorite book' was written by

oh, say, Harold Robbins or Ima Smutpeddeler, would reading from it to 5 year olds be condoned by this woman and her attorney?

[China_cat]

14. There are other laws and conventions in place that would take care of that

But maybe the answer would simply be to ask the kids before ever mentioning it to their parents? Make a list of what the kids tell you is their #1 favorite book and not allow any deviations from that.

[Fleshdancer]

11. I would personally be pissed

If my daughter came home from school one day and told me that someone read the bible to her in class, I would be livid. To say this is acceptable because a parent read the bible to the students instead of a teacher is piss poor logic. The students are five years old and when any adult walks in to a classroom full of five year olds and reads to them, they take on the role of educator whether they like it or not because that is exactly how the children will see them.

[Dora]

12. I agree. -eom

[China_cat]

15. I wouldn't like it either,

but I'm commenting on the legality of it and the way the law is written.

I realize the kids would see her as an authority figure but the law wouldn't and when it goes to court, perception is not going to be taken into account.

[Fleshdancer]

16. I understand....

I wasn't referring so much to the legality of the situation, but rather the ethics. It angers me that young children are caught in the middle of all this crap because a loud minority of people want to combine the schools with the churches regardless of the fact that every American has the right to practice whatever religion they choose.

Just out of curiosity, what would it take for the law to see her as an authority figure? Would she have to be paid by the school? If so, what about people who volunteer at schools? Would she have to have a degree in education? If so, what about teacher's aids who don't yet have their degree? It's an interesting question actually.

[China_cat]

17. Like I said, a very fine line.

Schools are required to provide space for religious extra-curricular activities on the same basis as they do for other groups. The leaders of those groups are not considered school personnel. I would think that anyone acting under the aegis or responsible to the school district in the capacity they serve...which would include volunteers and TAs...would be subject to the establishment rule.

A parent coming in for one session, one class, would not.

I still think the easiest way to get around this problem is to query the children before hand as to their favorite books, have those books available (not rely on the parent to bring it) and have the parent read from those. In fact, who says a parent has to read from his/her own child's favorite book? It might make more of an impression for a child to hear another adult reading the favorite book.

As to the person who said that the child would have to be a genius to understand the 16th century language: Not everybody uses the King James version. And there are children's bibles using very simple language and usually sticking to the more easily understood stories. Adam and Eve, Noah, etc.

[DFWdem]

20. Well, they did it with the Koran

If you recall, for the Fall 2002 semester a state college in North Carolina (forget which one, NC State maybe) made a book regarding the Koran (basically a layman's edition of the Koran) required reading for all incoming freshman. Sure, they weren't 5 year olds, but certainly the university took on the role of educator because that is how the incoming students saw them. Was that equally unacceptable?

[tblue37]

23. It wasn't even required reading, actually.

It was just recommended reading.

On the other hand, readings from the Old and New Testaments and from the Qu'ran are required in our university's Western Civ course. As they should be, since they are foundational texts after all, and you can't udnerstand a civilization without some (academic) knowledge of its foundational texts.

Reading religious texts for academic purposes is perfectly fine. That is not "promoting religion."

When I teach literature to my college students, I have to deal with the "stuff" of the literature, and often that stuff is religious. For example, you can't teach, say, the marvellous poetry of Gerard Manley Hopkins without dealing with the fact that they are the devotional poems of a Jesuit priest!

Similarly, an art history class has to deal with religious art, since so much of the world's art is religious art.

Of course, I also deal with other "religious" materials represented in much art and literature: Geek and Roman mythology, Celtic mythology, Native American mythology, paganism, Norse mythology, African mythology, Chinese mythology.

I am not at all religious, but I still make that disclaimer before dealing with religious references in literature, because I know some students won't be able to understand the difference between discussing religion and promoting it. Two different things, I assure you, and as someone who has long studied comparative mythology, I often discuss religion. Actually, I should say religions.

[DFWdem]

26. Actually, it WAS required until some people objected

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_unc.htm

"The Carolina Summer Reading Program amended its requirements after the dispute arose. They state that: "Although the summer reading is required, if any students or their families are opposed to reading parts of the Qur'an because to do so is offensive to their own faith, they may choose not to read the book. These students should instead complete their one-page response on why they chose not to read the book."

Or this link:

http://www.unc.edu/srp/

"The Carolina Summer Reading Program is designed to introduce you to the intellectual life of Carolina. Expected of all new undergraduate students (first year and transfer), it involves reading an assigned book over the summer, and participating in a two-hour discussion with select faculty and staff members."

edited to add link

[Fleshdancer]

24. I've never heard of that story

do you have a link?

[DFWdem]

25. Here's one link...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/15880p-15037c.html

You can google "north carolina university koran" for a list of others. Sorry for the delay, I'm at work

[SemperEadem]

13. her son must have the reading comprehension of a 25 yr old

if the bible is his favorite book to read from... the way it's written, it's rather hard to understand 16th century vernacular and I'm an adult who was a gifted reader as a child.

No, this woman got the bright idea from some neocon fundimentalcase shit disturber to make the false claim that her constitutional rights were impacted because she was reading from her son's 'favorite' book.

Yeah, let's give the kid a test on his favorite book to see if he knows the story backwards and forwards.

[mitchum]

18. The bible would be appropriate once the kids begin studying FICTION

Oh my...more "persecution" of christians!

[PittPoliSci]

19. if this holds up in court...

and my children ever have anything like this, i swear i'll read a satanic bible.

[murielkane]

27. The Rutherford Institute is always bad news

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/clinton/Clintonculwar8-15.html

John W. Whitehead, head of the Rutherford Institute, has gone to great lengths to conceal the ideological leanings of his Christian Right legal center in statements to the mass media. He told the New York Times that "Oh, gosh, no," he had no political agenda in representing Paula Jones, and that he had founded the Rutherford Institute by himself. The New York Times reporter described The Rutherford Institute as "a kind of evangelical Christian civil liberties union."

Whitehead's claims misrepresent the group. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, is blunt, "Our files on the Institute go back 10 years. After examining the material, we can safely say Whitehead is not being honest in his description of his organization."

From its founding, the Rutherford Institute has pursued a highly-politicized ultra-conservative agenda. A review of Rutherford Institute newsletters, reports, and direct mail appeals going back seven years shows a long pattern of attacks on liberals in government and President Clinton in particular. Whitehead consistently puts forward an apocalyptic conspiracist vision of devout Christian activists under concerted attack by corrupt and repressive government officials in the service of godless and immoral secular humanism.

http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Rutherford_Institute

Early members of the Rutherford Foundation's board of directors included California millionaire Howard F. Ahmanson, Jr., as well as prominent fundamentalist activists such as Francis Schaeffer and R.J. Rushdoony of The Chalcedon Foundation, a West Coast Christian think tank in which the Christian Reconstructionist Movement was born forty years ago. The early activities of the Rutherford Institute reflected this, and tended to focus on cases involving public primary and secondary education. They were especially active and often successful in trying to stop condom distribution in public schools, as well as sex education, AIDS prevention programs, and programs that teach tolerance.