Would You Adam 'n' Eve It...Dinosaurs in Eden (In the Bible Belt)

[chlamor]

Would you Adam 'n' Eve it ... dinosaurs in Eden

Paul Harris in Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Sunday May 22, 2005
The Observer

The razor-toothed Tyrannosaurus rex, jaws agape, loomed ominously over the gentle Thescelosaurus, looking for plants to eat. Admiring the museum diorama were old and young visitors, listening on headphones to a stentorian voice describing the primeval scene.

But the Museum of Earth History is a museum with a controversial difference. To one side, peering through the bushes, are Adam and Eve. The display is not an image of the Cretaceous. It is Paradise. 'They lived together without fear, for there was no death yet,' the voice intoned about Man and Dinosaur.

Nestling deep in the Ozark mountains of Arkansas, in the heart of America's Bible Belt, this is the first dinosaur museum to take a creationist perspective. Already thousands of people have flocked to its top-quality exhibits which mix high science with fundamentalist theology that few serious scientists accept.

The museum is riding a wave of creationist influence in America. Creationism, which holds that the Earth is just a few thousand years old and the biblical account of Genesis is fact, is central to a rash of furious arguments across America. From school boards in Kansas to elections in Pennsylvania, the 'debate' between creationism and evolution has become a political hot potato.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1489520,00.html

[DeepModem Mom]

1. Oh, dear God -- make it stop!!!

[Seabiscuit]

42. Has God been asleep since the Scopes Monkey Trial???

That would certainly explain a lot

[holboz]

44. Eureka Springs is known as the "Gay Capital of the Ozarks"

They have Gay pride weekends and all that.

Hmmmm...is it any wonder why the other massive fundy attraction there is The Great Passion Play and the Christ of the Ozarks statue? Fundies are trying very hard to make their mark, aren't they?

[davidinalameda]

2. if there was no death

what did the T-Rex eat

marigolds?

[havocmom]

5. It would expain why they died off

even cutworms don't like marigolds

Actually, there are several 'museums' of this sort. A guy in texas used to give workshops on how to make them. Name is Baugh. Google him for a real case of heartburn.

[havocmom]

6. Info on Carl Baugh who makes 'creationist museums' his business

Site for his museum:
http://www.creationevidence.org/

<snip> As you browse our pages you will receive educational information presenting scientific evidence for creation and design by a personal Creator. This scientifically chartered museum was established in July of 1984 for the purpose of research, excavation, and display of scientific evidence for creation. The Museum's team, led by its Founder and Director, Carl Baugh, Ph.D., has excavated eleven dinosaurs (Acrocanthosaurus, Stegosaurus, Allosaurus, etc.), 475 dinosaur tracks, 86 human footprints, 7 cat prints, and other fossil remains - all in Cretaceous limestone. These excavations were professionally documented along the Paluxy River and various other international locations.
<snip> Among museums this entity makes a unique contribution, demonstrating that man and dinosaur lived contemporaneously. Educators, professors, kids, and adherents to various religions are finding answers to the great questions of life: Who am I?, Where did I come from?, What is my purpose here?, and Where am I going? In its ongoing research to find answers to Who is God?, Was the Universe designed and created by a Creator?, and What does the Bible teach about the heavens, man, animals, plants, etc?, the Museum researches and houses artifacts from archaeology, geology, and paleontology (such as the London artifact, the Meister Print, the cup in coal, the fossilized foot in a boot, the fossilized human finger, and the like).

His site page
http://www.faithcenteredresources.com/authors/carl-baugh.asp

And about Dr. Baugh’s credentials:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/credentials.html

<snip> Carl Baugh is best known as a tireless proponent of the claim that human footprints appear alongside dinosaur tracks in the Paluxy Riverbed of Glen Rose, Texas. He has appeared on numerous Christian radio talkshows and was even touted as an "expert" on the 1996 NBC pseudoscience program, The Mysterious Origins of Man. He operates a small museum out of Glen Rose, Texas.
<snip> Baugh is a Baptist minister who claims to be an archeologist with a Ph.D. from the California Graduate School of Theology in Los Angeles. This school is unaccredited by the Western Assocation of Schools and Colleges, the primary body responsible for college and university accreditation in the region. It is also unaccredited by the state of California, although it is listed as "approved".
<snip> Baugh has also claimed Ph.D. degrees in education and anthropology from the Pacific College of Graduate Studies in Melbourne, Australia and the College of Advanced Education in Irving, Texas. According to Glen Kuban, who has thoroughly researched Baugh's Paluxy "man-track" claims and his credentials, neither Pacific College nor the College of Advanced Education is accredited or authorized by any regional or national body to grant degrees <4>. Pacific College is a small religious school run by Australian creationist Clifford Wilson, a close associate of Baugh's. The College of Advanced Education is a division of the International Baptist College, of which Baugh himself is president.
<snip> Baugh's dissertation for his degree from Pacific College is titled "Academic Justification for Voluntary Inclusion of Scientific Creation in Public Classroom Curricula, Supported by Evidence that Man and dinosaurs were Contemporary". Its contents include descriptions of his field-work on the Paluxy river "man-tracks", speculation about Charles Darwin's religious beliefs and phobias, and odd ramblings about the biblical Adam's mental excellence. </>

A couple years ago, there were pages listed for workshops at his little establishment. Taught how you too can make exhibits to prove man and dinosaur were contemporaries. Don't find his workshop schedules on google these days, but then, I get sorta ill after sifting throught the first page now.

[davidinalameda]

8. good racket

wonder how much money you need to get a franchise

[Jose Diablo]

34. Good point

Those teeth of T-Rex, well they wouldn't be too much good for eating grass, however for ripping flesh from a carcase and crushing bone, well those teeth are just the ticket.

The teeth even have little half-moon indentations, to relieve any point for stress to build and thus keep them from breaking. I would venture a guess that not only were those teeth perfect for a carnivore, but seeing those little half-moon indentation tells me thats exactly what the teeth were used for, when the animal was alive.

Also, it takes a very long time for 'mineralization' to replace the calcium in the teeth with minerals. I would say on the order of 10's of millions of years.

Garden of Eden indeed. Not to discount the legend of the Garden, but if I had a garden, T-Rex would not be an animal I would want there.

[Dr.Phool]

3. What fucking assholes!

Belief is not science. I want to go around to every fundy church, and demand time to teach evolution in sunday school. It's only fair. Both sides deserve to have equal time!

[beam me up scottie]

4. That's even more exciting than

Dinosaur Adventure Land in Florida!

http://www.dinosauradventureland.com/kidos/index.html

You missed Creation Bootcamp though, that was last weekend. :cry:

[Dr.Phool]

7. i've read about that place

A couple of hours to the north. I'll never be there.

[beam me up scottie]

16. Not even to

get a t-shirt?
You would be the envy of all your friends and colleagues.
:evilgrin:

[davidinalameda]

9. you can have birthday parties there

wonder if they would allow a DU meetup there

:shrug:

[beam me up scottie]

15. I thought it was a spoof site

the first time I saw that.

I sympathize with the sane people who live in Florida.
It now seems to rival Kansas as a magnet for reichwing neanderthals.

[Hand]

10. I assume Adam and Eve are depicted as lily white. nt

[LibertyorDeath]

11. LMAO! This is priceless I'm sending this to everyone I know

The absolute funniest thing about this is these demented individuals are
serious :crazy: & live in the Ozark mountains.

Just hammering the last nail
into the backwoods bumblefuck stereotype.

"the biblical account of Genesis is fact"

Stop please stop you're killing me :rofl:

[punpirate]

12. In the last big push on...

... getting creationism into the public schools in California, around 1980, I believe, there were fundies running around with pictures of human footprints side by side with dinosaur tracks.

I poked around, did a little checking the news, and found an article written by a university professor who'd been visiting the same place in Texas to do dino research for years. He'd identified, in a paper or two, three or four years before, a new dinosaur specie based on the tracks and artifacts. Had a very curious track pattern suggesting that it sort jogged when it moved--had quite a long stride for its height.

Apparently, the fundies were reading his research papers, because one year, he came back to where he'd first found the tracks, and they'd chiseled one set of human footprints into the alluvial stone out of one set of dinosaur tracks, next to another set of dino tracks--the dino tracks were close enough to the right size to be manipulated. Only one problem--the human would have had to have been eleven or twelve feet tall to match the stride.... What they won't do to prove their point.... :)

[daleo]

13. If fundamentalists are going to persist in the 6000 year fantasy,

They should just pretend dinosaur fossils are tricks of the devil. Mixing Genesis and dinosaurs is stupider than just ignoring the fossil evidence which is what they mostly do anyway.

If their was no death, and thus no predation, why would God have salted the Garden of Eden with gigantic animals with huge teeth, good for ripping flesh but no good for grinding vegetable matter?

[keopeli]

14. The Bible says that "fear" was learned when Adam & Eve were expelled from

Eden.

This is a set-up for the Cain and Able story. Cain kills Able, which is the first human death, and the first murder.

But, FEAR was learned after Eve got Adam to eat that apple.

So, to say, "They lived together in fear, for there was no death yet" is wrong. It is instilling FEAR into the store where no FEAR initially existed.

Oh and, by the way, don't you think they also might have had a FEAR issue each time they were spotted by a Tyrannosaurus Rex?

[rodeodance]

17. well this says 45% believe God created Earth less than 10.000

years ago. um....hope schools are doing a better job with the youth of today.


............The museum is riding a wave of creationist influence in America. Creationism, which holds that the Earth is just a few thousand years old and the biblical account of Genesis is fact, is central to a rash of furious arguments across America. From school boards in Kansas to elections in Pennsylvania, the 'debate' between creationism and evolution has become a political hot potato.

Even as America's scientists make advances in palaeontology, astronomy and physics that appear to disprove creationism, Gallup surveys have shown that about 45 per cent of Americans believe the Earth was created by God within the past 10,000 years. It is not just creationism either. Last week NBC's Dateline current affairs programme, equivalent to the BBC's Newsnight, investigated miracles. It concluded some could be real. It is hard to imagine Jeremy Paxman taking this stance.

That wellspring of popular belief, and the political clout that comes with it, is the inspiration behind the museum. It is not interested in debating with mainstream science. It simply wants to represent the view of a significant slice of America. 'We want people to see that finally they have something that addresses their beliefs, to show that we do have a voice,' said Thomas Sharp, business director of Creation Truth, the religious group that co-founded the museum.

No expense was spared. The fossil casts, which range from a Triceratops skull to an 18ft-long Albertosaurus (a relative to T. rex), could easily grace London's Natural History Museum. Plans for a much bigger museum in Dallas are advanced. 'We would love to open in the United Kingdom if the right partner showed up,' Sharp said........

[beam me up scottie]

18. Frightening, isn't it?

I read similar studies and couldn't believe it.
I am hoping that the numbers are manipulated or else we're in a lot more trouble than I thought... :scared:

[Zhade]

49. Same here. If true, it means 45% of Americans are COMPLETE IDIOTS.

Hey, fun fact: since museums attempt to house the truth about history, there is no such thing as a "creationist museum", because IT AIN'T THE TRUTH.

Perhaps we should start calling them "creationist fantasylands".

Hi, BMUS! :hi:

[agincourt]

46. 45%?

Well, now we know whom Bush's base are.

[TrogL]

24. Ummmm....where'd Cain's wife come from?

[radfringe]

29. good question -- and here's another

after Cain killed Able, Adam and Eve had Seth and a slew of other kids...

so where did Adam & Eve's GRANDkids come from? are we talking incest?

[Bucky]

43. Well presumedly Eve had Adam's DNA & was his TS clone

So that's your first incest right there.

And actually, I think the Bible only says that Adam & Eve only had one other kid after Cain: Seth. I assume that their wives were either the Nephelim or mail ordered from the Philippines.

[radfringe]

51. it does only mention one by name

but further passages imply that there were many others

[paineinthearse]

19. Inquiring minds want to know

What kind of Cretaceous weed is the curator smoking?

[sleipnir]

20. Hey everyone, here's a picture of one of the exibits!

I guess it's just a cartoon drawing, but close enough!

[NMMNG]

21. Aye caramba!

Adam and Eve with the dinosaurs? :wtf:

How can even the creationists advocate for this? There is no mention of dinosaurs in the Bible.

What's next, Adam and Eve on Mars?

:crazy:

[paineinthearse]

22. Very good point.

If the fundies interpret the Bible literally, and there is no mention, dinosuars did not exist!

[theHandpuppet]

23. Holy Pterodactyl -- Here's another one!

This is from today's (Sunday) Cincinnati Enquirer:

Sunday, May 22, 2005

Ministry uses dinosaurs to dispute evolution
How and when did life begin? Ken Ham wants you to find the answer in his $25 million Boone County creation museum

By John Johnston
Enquirer staff writer

PETERSBURG - Ken Ham wants to save your soul.

He's so bent on that mission that he has spent 11 years in Northern Kentucky creating a museum to answer one of the most debated questions of our time:

When and how did life begin?

Soon, visitors to Ham's still-unfinished Creation Museum will experience his view: that God created the world in six, 24-hour days on a planet just 6,000 years old. This literal interpretation of the Bible runs counter to accepted scientific theory, which says Earth and its life forms evolved over billions of years.

More at: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050522/NEWS01/505220367

[radfringe]

25. years ago

during a discussion about a "dinosaur" bone find the issue of creationism came up and how does this fit into dinosaur bones....

I was actually told that "GOD put the bones in the ground to test people's faith...."

[reality based]

26. Neal Horsely loves dinosaurs n/t

[bklyncowgirl]

27. I guess Noah couldn't get the Brontosaurus on the ark. nt

[TomClash]

28. And on the 5th day . .

Jesus split the atom.

[Toots]

32. No didn't you know Atomic Theory is only a theory so couldn't be true

Adam split his pants after his woman disobeyed him and ate the damn apple and he had to wear pants from then on because fundies are ashamed of God's creation (the human body) Must keep it covered at all times.

[Zhade]

50. I hear fundies want the law of gravity to be repealed.

If we hang on tight enough, maybe they'll all be flung out into space (or "heaven", as they call it).

[fasttense]

30. Here's my rant

If those stupid, idiotic, nincompoops would just study science and educate themselves, they would find out that science doesn't disprove God. In fact, to me, the more I learn about science, the world and the beginning of life, the more I see a god's hand in it. But nooooo, they want me to believe obvious lies and half truths in exchange for science. Should I believe crazy people who are pushing lies and half truths or the scientists who have evidence to back up their theories? Hmmm, let me see.

[Gormy Cuss]

36. What are you, some kind of thinker?

I had no conflict between Christian theology and scientific discoveries even as a kid, and neither did most of the God-believers I knew. People who are secure in their beliefs don't need to obliterate the dissonance in the way scientists describe our world without reference to religion.

I was raised in a faith that encouraged thinking and questioning of scriptural interpretations. Our clergy were fully versed in the historical context of the Bible,unlike the dime store preachers who interpret the Bible using a twentieth century English translation written with archaisms like 'ye' and 'thou' as if this proves it's God talk.

There are no half truths. A half truth is a lie. Likewise, there is no middle ground with faith. If you believe, you are not threatened by scientific knowledge. Period.

[yorkiemommie1]

45. raised Catholic

and never had a problem w/ evolution vs. the bible.

i was taught that a "day" in the biblical sense was NOT 24hours.

[smoogatz]

31. What a bizzarre logic trap these people are caught in

This is just another nutball attempt to dilute the influence of science on the national educational debate. The only way they can reconcile the obvious disconnect for themselves is to force the government to officially endorse their goofy-ass beliefs.

[Jade Fox]

33. So, basically the Flintstones are an acurate representation of pre-history

Good to know. :eyes:

[Solly Mack]

35. This type of ignorance should be a crime.

[ridgerunner]

37. They have to believe it

or the Bible is wrong, and since God wrote the Bible how could it be wrong? The Bible provides a genealogical link between Jesus and Adam and this is why most of these folks believe this crap. To not believe would destroy their faith. And it scares them.

[pissed_American]

38. Sorry, but you are WRONG !

"and since God wrote the Bible how could it be wrong?"

The Bible was written BY man FOR man.

Religion is nothing more than the oldest form of scare tactics. I do believe that the Bible does show how to live well while here, but it is solely based on the old....

Do "THIS" or something bad will happen to you - and don`t do "THAT" or something bad will happen to you.

FEAR and PAIN are two very big motivators.


Maybe "God" is science.

God is supposedly beyond our comprehension, so why is God depicted as so "simple" - POOF

Do you think heaven has any good ISPs ?

[ridgerunner]

39. No, I'm not wrong

These people believe that God wrote the Bible, i.e. he dictated while a human wrote down what they were told.

Hey, I'm an agnostic. I totally agree that all relgions play upon people'e fear and this is why these folks have to beleive that the Earth is only 6000 years old. They are afraid that if one part of the Bible is incorrect, other parts may be wrong also.

[pissed_American]

40. Let me rephrase that...

I was under the impression that "YOU" specifically were claiming that God wrote the bible.

I am also agnostic. I want to believe, but until I see PROOF, just like with anything else, MY jury is still out on this biblical THEORY.

I will NOT be scared into submission. Period!

[ridgerunner]

41. no problem

I thought the word crap gave away my position. :P

[Fire Walk With Me]

47. They forgot to include Sponge Bob and Patrick.

Obviously, everything is true, and nothing is forbidden.

No links to pics? They'd be a riot.

I've heard of folk dropping acid and visiting Disney; this seems a much more enjoyable opportunity for disassociation.

PS: The Tibetan practice of Bon is said to be 17,000 years old. How old is Sanskrit?

How awful when non-White history gets in the way. And I guess that Adam and Eve don't have to be black, as they now aren't from Africa, the heartland of life on the planet.

Odd how their heroes look just like they do! Is this narcissism to an extreme?

[Zhade]

48. You mean, that NO serious scientist accepts.

If they accept this, they aren't serious scientists.

So-called Intelligent Design - "creationism in a cheap tuxedo" - is more rightly known as Infinite Dumbassery in my neck of the woods.