Was Mother Teresa 'miracle' a hoax?

[dArKeR]

New Delhi - Indian rationalists have sparked off a fresh controversy over Mother Teresa of Calcutta's miracle, which qualifies her for beatification later this month.

Mother Teresa, the founder of the Missionaries of Charity order in West Bengal, is believed to have cured Monica Besra of an abdominal tumour, which the Vatican approved as a miracle.

Last December, Pope John Paul II signed a decree qualifying the Nobel Peace laureate for beatification, the first stage on the road to sainthood.

Rationalists in Calcutta, where Mother Teresa's charity is based, have challenged the miracle and described it as a hoax. They said Besra suffered from a curable disease and was healed because of prolonged medical treatment.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=3&art_id=ct20031004102634880I535486&set_id=1

[trotsky]

1. Gettin' hard to work a miracle these days...

Science has taken over so much of what used to be termed "miracles."

[Skittles]

4. LOL...........trotsky

don't you know - all that is just hogwash. You have to have "FAITH". :O

[mddemo]

2. dosent matter

Its a matter of faith, whether science cured the sick or not, its the patients belief and the belief of others that matters. Anyway i think if anyone deserves beautification its MOther Theresa, i had the pleasure of meeting her many years ago and with the Holy Father she exuded something that is unexplainable, but it confirmed my faith.

[Violet_Crumble]

49. Sainthood for Sir Donald Bradman!!

After all, his cricketing prowess was a matter of faith and a MiRacLe, not boring scientific type stuff like being very skilled at the game...

CNNNN beatifies 'The People's Saint', Sir Donald Bradman

Despite being responsible for what CNNNN commentator Chris Taylor called a "deluge" of miracles, the Pontiff declined to recognise Bradman's sainthood because of so-called "religious" reasons.

In justifying this outrageous decision, the Pope also made the point that Bradman "hated Catholics," an argument immediately dismissed by the network's main anchor as 'petty'.

CNNNN Anchor Craig Reucassel said he was disgusted by the Papal decision. "If Bradman had gone out there and averaged 99.94 for the Vatican City instead of Australia, you can bet there'd be a different outcome today," he said.

"The Pope may call himself infallible, but that's a long way short of being Invincible like Bradman was."

http://www.abc.net.au/cnnnn/news/s939202.htm

nyuck, nyuck...


Violet...

[opiate69]

70. Well.. that explains a lot.

"whether science cured the sick or not, its the patients belief and the belief of others that matters."

At least there are some of us who believe reality is what really matters.....

[Nay]

3. Ever notice that no saint has ever regrown someone's severed limb?

All the rest of these "miracles" are nothing more than spontaneous remissions, simple healing, or mistaken diagnoses in first place.

[mddemo]

5. once again

its a faith thing either you believe or you dont, if you dont believe then what does the beautification or sainthood of someone matter to you.

[Skittles]

6. see Nay

there's no such thing as a HOAX or a CON JOB. You just gotta have FAITH!!!

[mddemo]

9. tolerance

Once again i see theres no tolerance for anyone who dosent subscribe to religion is nonsence. I have my beliefs you have yours, until i start trying to convert you have some respect. In this world i have seen enough to make me believe that what i believe in is right for me.

on a PS i notice a lot of Catholic bashing and religion basing in general, is this really what being a democrat is about, i dont think so.

[papau]

15. Democrat does not equal Atheist - But spontaneous remissions is like

the anthological principal that "explains" creation (if the world was not as it is we would not be here to notice it - proving what I do not know - yet Hawkings calls it a powerful thought! :-) )

The dump on "miracle" are just words to explain away what frightens the athieist mind set (is it low self esteem that forces the bad manners, or something else - but that deserves a thread on a different board).

In any case, folks with MD's said the sick lady had a growth that responded to nothing and that she was going to die, so it was either a miracle or some bad doctors.

But the real miracle is the life of Mother Theresa.

[northzax]

28. and who is to say

that spontaneous remission is not a miracle?

[tkmorris]

31. Who's to say?

For that matter who's to say spontaneous remission isn't the work of invisible elves? Perhaps benevolent aliens from Betelguese? The curative powers of wearing green socks? Pixie dust?

The trouble is if I claimed any of those things to be true, I'd be ridiculed for it. Rightly so. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Why should anyone pay any more attention or respect to similar claims just because they are religious in nature? I usually do, mainly out of a desire not to offend people unneccessarily but why is it expected?

[aquart]

37. Me, I despise her. I always have.

And the so-called "good" she did? Wildly unimpressed. But that's just me.

The day I hear she taught a poor woman about birth control...well, that would be a miracle.

[Violet_Crumble]

50. Me too...

So it's not just you :)


Violet...

[Skittles]

18. no - it's you who has no tolerance

for people who can spot con jobs. I am a great admirer of Mother Theresa but miracles? No.

[blackcat77]

22. I'm on your side MD

Despite the fact that haters are using Christianity as an excuse for their stupidity, a true reading of the gospel and liberal politics go hand in hand.

And yes, I do believe in miracles. If they happened all the time, they wouldn't BE miracles...

[jsw_81]

43. Tolerance?

Your idiotic religion teaches that non-believers like me will be tortured in flames for eternity. Where's the tolerance in that?

[hlthe2b]

7. I don't expect "magic " or miracles from someone like

Mother Theresa in order to recognize her. To me the miracle is that we had someone on earth like her at all- willing to commit all to the poor and impoverished-- the forgotten masses and "untouchables" of India.

[Flubadubya]

10. You are exactly right...

Just the fact of Mother Teresa's existence and charitable work on this planet is in and of itself the greatest blessing. I certainly recognize her good deeds and know that she was a very brave and wonderful human being for doing such. That's enough for me.

[DuctapeFatwa]

12. Yes! The story of the loaves and fishes

Now the popular take is that Jesus did this magic trick, and multiplied the loaves and fishes.

I think what really happened is, Jesus so inspired all present that although they were poor, and didn't have much, they SHARED what they did have with those who had nothing - and THERE is a bigger miracle than any parlor trick of materialization :)

[Zhade]

45. This is a beautiful explanation of the parable. Thanks for saying it!

NT!

[arcane1]

24. exactly.

to me it's a shame that there has to be some supernatural element in order for her to be recognized. If that one single person's illness had continued like normal, then Theresa would just be a regular person with nothing special? :shrug:

[Ilsa]

59. You got it right.

I'm not Catholic, and to me it's not about the miracles. It's about her devotion and faith and sacrifice when most others are out pursuing political power (including within the church) and money and comfort. Mother Teresa epitomized the vow of poverty and service to humanity. Considering how women are denied certain options in leadership in most Christian faiths, elevation to sainthood is due, IMO.

I'll take one of her over a million priests and bishops, including a few that I've met who live in the lap of luxury.

[colorado_ufo]

77. Don't know all the in's and out's of this process (I'm not Catholic)

however, there have been some instances where a severely crippled or shriveled limb regrew - suddenly - to intact status. And occasionally "incurable" blindness is, indeed, cured. Is that close enough to qualify? I'm not even sure that all these cases were Catholic, but they all did involve people with varying degrees of religious faith.

If I were missing an arm or a leg, I'm not sure if I would want it to "regrow" again. I think that would weird me out.

Actually, what is the difference between spontaneous healing or remission and a miracle?

[thebigidea]

8. next thing you know, muckrakers will question the virgin birth!

Was the "Virgin Birth" a HOAX?
Did Jesus REALLY sprout fully-formed from Mary's forehead?

[sam sarrha]

75. well the Virgin birth smacks of Roman paganism, in particular Mithra,

Check it out on the web, Christianity is just the Cult of Mithra. The three Wise men, Astrologers, were followers of Mithra following the predicted sign of the birth of MITHRA.... which is probably why the Jews didn't accept him as their Messiah, because he was obviously MITHRA'S!! Wake up and smell the incense!!!

[radwriter0555]

11. Manchausen Syndrome. That's what MT had... she literally created

the victims she eased through death's door, by NOT building hospitals, providing medical treatment, funding cures and research. The woman's ministries are some of the wealthiest in the world, yet, not one hospital, not one doctor's office.

All she served was herself. She preached against birth control, perpetuating overpopulation and ultimately, more victims for her to ease to the other side.

She was a fraud.

[LittleApple81]

13. Boy, are you going to get flamed! n/t

[MojoKrunch]

14. ::Handing out fire-retardent suits::

I agree completely with RadWriter.

There is something a bit too self-serving about how MT worked *for* Catholic doctrine and not really for the people she professed to care about.

(just using your post as a stepping off point, LittleApple, this isn't directed at you specifically) :)
----
That said, why is it that some of you religious folk feel the need to get defensive when the *trappings* of your belief are challenged?

I understand the problem with feeling "bashed" when people bash religion, but really, there is a distinction.

"Miracles" are a joke... they're not real... they can never be real... except in the minds of those who believe in them.
(just like anything "supernatural")

Now, given that MT embodied a great many of the professed tenets of the Catholic Church, I can certainly understand why they would feel the need to hurriedly move her towards sainthood.
She was a PR op waiting to happen.

But is there really a need to pretend she performed a "miracle" to do this?
Trappings of religion are pointless.
They are only used to sway believers and have nothing at all to do with belief.

I have never had *any* problem with people believing in what I consider silliness...
I'm an artist. I appreciate an active imagination.
I *do* have problems with what I consider the self-destructive/destructive aspects of certain forms of religious belief, but for the most part I'm of the opinion that such beleif, in and of itself, is mostly harmless.
However.
Let us not confuse the *belief* with *reality*.
And the reality is that miracles are bunk.
Just like snake-oil and astrology.
They are simply tools in the Marketing department of organized religion.
And I'm not just talking about the RCC, mind you.
This has gone on since humanity created gods.

So, please, don't feel that your beliefs are being attacked, but rather the trappings of Marketing/PR of organized religion.

Because, as in the case of MT, would it really make any difference to you if she performed a miracle or not?

Mojo

[psychopomp]

21. *yawn*

What a tedious post.

"Who feels it knows it."

btw, ironic sig

[MojoKrunch]

26. Oh my. I hope you didn't strain anything.

And your "response" is meaningful to whom, exactly?

I'm always entertained by people who feel the need to express what little they are capable of feeling in a discussion.

Now can you express what you think or is that too much to ask?

Mojo

[psychopomp]

40. Okay

An ego-tripping "It's all hogwash" rant that goes on too long is not going to convince anybody. You cannot negate another's experience no matter how shrill you make your voice.

Speak your peace on these matters but best to keep it short, otherwise you come off like an obsessed neurotic. You can preach to the choir (pardon the expression) but you will otherwise win no converts, anyway.

I'll let the silence speak for me from here on on this topic, thank you.

[MojoKrunch]

41. My oh my... I didn't realize you were so easily bruised. My bad.

//An ego-tripping "It's all hogwash" rant that goes on too long is not going to convince anybody.//
Show me the hogwash.
How does that saying go... "I call bullshit"?

The RCC can bullshit its way around a "miracle" all it wants... no skin off my nose.
Just don't try to pretend that the "miracle" was actually real.

People who actually believe in miracles suffer from a lack of imagination.
Like someone pointed out earlier, why don't any of those "miracles" include regrown limbs?

//You cannot negate another's experience no matter how shrill you make your voice.//
Who's "experience" was I "shrilly" negating, exactly?(no projecting there folks)

As a matter of fact, I think I quite pointedly stated that I wasn't "negating" anything.
Was that too far down in my "rant" for you?

//Speak your peace on these matters but best to keep it short, otherwise you come off like an obsessed neurotic.//
Damn, and all this time I thought I came off as someone who knew how to write more than a few coherent sentences.
Amazing what perspective can do, isn't it?

So in this short post of yours, I'm "shrill", something of a "negating" bully, "obsessed" and "neutoric".
Tell me, doctor, how long have you been practicing online?

Spare me your feeble attempts at insult.
Really.
Been there, done that, created the pithy t-shirt.

If you're this threatened, go curl up in a corner.

//You can preach to the choir (pardon the expression) but you will otherwise win no converts, anyway.//
Sigh... color is so difficult for people who only see in shades of gray.
I don't *want* to convert you, so don't get all sensitive on me, ok?

I'd no more "preach" atheism to someone unable/unwilling to see the truth than I would "preach" physics to my cat.

Trust me.
You're completely safe from *me*.

Stop feeling so threatened.
*We* weren't they ones burning people at the stake, you know.

//I'll let the silence speak for me from here on on this topic, thank you.//
Thank you.
I truly appreciate that.

If this is an example of your communication skills, you're sparing all of us the needless pain of reading your responses.

Mojo

[jsw_81]

44. Silence!

We must never criticize religion, no matter how offensive or absurd it may be.

[mitchum]

69. No flames from me because Radwriter is absolutely correct

MT was a twisted individual who loved death (not necessarily the dying)

[papau]

16. "funding cures" - seems only Jesus got past that death problem -cures do

not seem to exist - just postponement of death for a few years.

I suggest the job of "ease to the other side" is a hard job - and a needed job - and she did it well.

[sam sarrha]

74. The crucification was faked and Jesus split to the south of France.cures

are a thing of the past, the drug companies only research TREATMENT..so they can charge you 'rent' on your suffering. There is NO Money in a cure!!

[Muddleoftheroad]

19. Hate speech

No point in flaming your Rushian diatribe. Those of us with faith here are used to over-the-top attacks by the Godless.

[thebigidea]

36. the Godless?

oooo, can I be part of their team?

It sounds like some Swedish Deathmetal band.

[Muddleoftheroad]

38. Feel free

And many posters here are already on their team.

[Violet_Crumble]

51. What team???

I don't believe in god, but I'm not on any team, and I've never made any 'over the top' attacks on people who believe in god. All I ask is that people respect my lack of belief and as long as they don't try to force theirs on me or others, I've got no problems with them. How is that 'over the top'?

Violet...

[Muddleoftheroad]

55. It isn't

But all you need do is check any thread on the subject, including this one, and you will find attacks on religion and the religious. This thread includes my favorites -- a couple attacks on Mother Teresa.

[Violet_Crumble]

66. I've checked...

MT's copping some well-deserved criticism. So? You seem to be saying that if someone's religious, they should be put up on a pedestal and never be criticised for their failings. That's not bashing yr faith, and it seems to me you have a level of intolerance for anyone who disagrees with yr religious beliefs. Me, I think MT was a rather repulsive individual, and that's got nothing to do with religious views, it's got to do with what I've read about the woman...


Violet...

[Blue_Chill]

39. They call themselves brights

and since that term is meant as saying "brighter then you" it not a surprise they now are being called "godless" instead. Name yourself something that annoys others, and you shall get a label that annoys you.

[MojoKrunch]

72. "Brighter than you"?

Mind if I ask where you read this?

Mojo

[Zhade]

47. The Godless?

How do you know this person doesn't have some form of God/Goddess they believe in?

Or is it that it's not your God?

Seriously.

[Muddleoftheroad]

56. Guessing

Based on the attack on one of the most good-hearted religious people ever. I don't know a person of any religious faith who would do that.

[arcane1]

25. sadly, it's true about the money

billions have been donated to MT's charities, but they spend not one penny. If they get food to feed the poor, they have to beg for it. If they want meds for the sick, they have to beg for them.

some of the nuns who worked with MT talked about this a year or two ago...

that said, I can't point the blame at MT, she does the best with what she has. But the Church could stand to kick in a few bucks now & then, one would think. Especially when so much $$ is given on the assumption that MT will be actually using it

[Cheswick2.0]

27. was she interfering in some work you were doing with the poor there?

When you were over there doing whatever you could to feed and house the poor did she interfere in some way? Otherwise I can't understand you being hostile to someone you feel didn't do enough when you were doing nothing.

So what exactly are you doing for the poor people of the world besides bitching about the actions of others and calling them names? Were you over there handing out birth control? Did she stop you?

[Blue_Chill]

35. She built a few schools, staffed them, staffed hospices etc etc

So because she didn't actually BUILD hospitals she's a fraud? What have you done for the poor? How long have you lived in third world slums sitting at the bedside of the soon to be dead?

It's real fucking easy to chill in the US and bitch about others not doing enough. But then again that's what those that attack anyone christian that does anything good in their lives.

[Liberator_Rev]

64. Precisely What did she build, Blue_Chill ?

I've seen several of your posts making claims like "the Catholic Church does more than any other organization" and in this case Mother Teresa "built a few schools, staffed them, staffed hospices etc etc."

I would be willing to bet that you haven't got a shred of evidence to support your statements, but are just spouting off you imaginings.

Prove me WRONG, and give us your SOURCES for this last statement, (hopefully not from a Mother Teresa website with no supporting evidence other than their own Public Relations.)

[Malva Zebrina]

17. damn rationalists!

always throwing in a clinker--

[Swede]

20. Doh!

[damnraddem]

23. Well, it was obviously a curable disease if it was cured.

The question is what is meant by 'miracle.' An issue is that even some of the most incurable diseases sometimes exhibit remissions. Worse, those remissions are sometimes temporary.

[DemBones DemBones]

29. It seems that the nonbelievers would only accept a miracle that

not only reversed an incurable disease but caused the patient to escape death and become immortal. And if that occurred, nonbelievers would be saying "Well, yes, the patient hasn't died YET, but it's only been two hundred years so the patient has not yet been proved to live forever. There is surely some rational explanation for this person living more than two hundred years."

What is particularly interesting is the large number of DUers who feel they must debunk all religious belief but allow (perhaps support, even participate in) the astrological belief threads in the Meeting Room. New DUers may not be aware that the Meeting Room was actually set up because a few believers in astrology lobbied for a place of their own to discuss their beliefs. There has been more tolerance at DU for astrological belief than for Christian belief and we Catholics are used to our faith being maligned here on a regular basis. It's a sad situation that does not reflect the real world and has absolutely nothing to do with being a Democrat.

[Malva Zebrina]

33. Dem bones

it is of no service and of no kindness to persons who are terminally ill to give them false hope that if they believe, or if they pray to a certain mythologized human being such as what Mother Teresa has become, they will be cured. This is cruel, imo.

[Zhade]

48. Why do I hear "the heathens" when I see "the nonbelievers"?

I mean, am I an "infidel" because I don't buy the literalist interpretations of scripture (whichever of the many scriptures that may be)?

As far as maligning Catholics, I have no problem with the vast majority of good, honorable Catholics. Some bad apples in the bunch don't spoil your good qualities.

A little less contempt for "nonbelievers" would be nice, though. I mean, Jesus certainly taught such a concept.

[bearfartinthewoods]

53. from an agnostic who admits to not having read every word of every

religion thread...
i've seen more disrespect for the religious than for the atheists.
i have never seen anyone try to proselitize but the insults to people of faith fly fast. it seems as though the atheists use religious DU folks as a whipping post for the more intolerent religious in the rest of the country. in fact, i have never seen a thread started by a religious person to attack atheist but the reverse has been common.

[shrike]

60. Thank you very much for saying this

I am a practicing Catholic and my husband is an agnostic. In our eight years together we have not had one fight about religion. Why? He respects my right to believe as I wish and I respect his right to not to believe. He accompanied me to church a while ago, but was so bored he swears never to go back. It didn't offend me because I see his point of view: if you're not a believer it would be boring as hell.

[Democat]

30. Have any of you read Christopher Hitchen's book on Mother Theresa?

The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice (Verso, 1995)

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_16_4.html

Regardless of which side you are on, there is some eye opening stuff in the book.

[shrike]

34. Who gives a damn what Christopher Hitchens says?

Meanwhile, I worry far more about the Bush cabal than I ever will about Mother Teresa's miracles or lack of them.

[Liberator_Rev]

61. You mean "Who (if you're Catholic) cares what anybody says, unless..."

they support the official party line."
Do you care what the Catholic author, John Cornwell has written about Pope Pius XII in "Hitler's Pope" ?
or what another Catholic scholar, Gordon Zahn has written in "German Catholics and Hitler's War"
or what the Catholic writer, Peter De Rosa, has written about the history of the Popes in his "Vicars of Christ"?

or do you dismiss everything that doesn't portray your church in a divine light?

[shrike]

65. I meant what I said: who gives a damn what Christopher Hitchens says?

Hitchens is an a-hole who lost credibility with me long ago. His support of Bush's war was the last straw. Got nothing to do with churches, divine light, John Cornwell (haven't read the man's work) or anything else that seems to get your panties in a bunch. I also happen to think that Bush's crimes are much more important than any miracles, alleged or otherwise. Yet this thread continues to burn bright, which says a lot about us -- and I'm including myself in that slam.

[arwalden]

32. Miracles, Schmiracles...

sounds to me like the DOCTORS who treated the woman should be up for sainthood. Eh?

-- Allen

[jsw_81]

42. Those silly rationalists

Always talking about "evidence" and "logic." Why can't they just have faith and believe what the Holy Church tells them? </sarcasm>

[Zhade]

46. Miracles and magic are just phenomena we don't understand.

Kind of like how a car would seem magical to a 14th-century knight.

[Dookus]

52. Except...

that everything we understand about the car, or lightning, or thunder, or antibiotics or vaccines is all a result of RATIONALISTIC thinking.

Magical thinking, which controlled the western world for many centuries, was the antithesis of the great advances humans have made.

[patcox2]

62. Boy have you got it wrong, "logic" and "reason" are not the antithesis

Of superstition.

Again, logic, and reason and "rationalism" are not the opposite of faith and religion and magic.

I don't know where you got the idea of that supposed dichotomy, but it displays a lack of understanding of the real significance of science and the scientific method (invented by a chrisian, Francis Bacon, by the way. That intrigues me; if christianity is so antithetical to science and progress, why did science and its attendant technological advancements begin and explode in midst of the essentially "christian" parts of the world; any takers on that one? There are a thousand religions across the world, why did it happen in christian europe and nowhere else?).

Reason and logic are very much a part of religion and superstition. Read the buddhist theology on the topic of karma and reincarnation, for example, all rigidly logical in an appealing way. Each step in the reasoning following directly from the one before, with no logical flaws whatsoever.

Except that its all unverified, and not proven by observation,.

The same can be said for Aristotle's natural history works, and for many, if not most, old myths and fables. All are very logical (if you accept some basic premises), all are the result of "rational" thought. (Francis Bacon was explicitly rejecting Aristotelian philosophy and its reliance on logic).

The great leap which the scientific method represents has nothing to do with some kind of triumph of "reason" or "rationalism." It has to do with empiricism. Science accepts nothing based on reason or raitonalism alone. Science is based on observation, repeatable observation, even when those observations lead to results which ar not in fact "logical" or rational.

You are seduced by the idea that human cleverness is somehow supreme. It is not. Logic itself is nothing but a pschological phenomenon which relates to the fact that we are wired to perceive cause and effect in ways related to the structure of the "language organ" (no one objects to Chomsky, I hope?) and when we see things that comply with our internal logical-grammatical rules, we find them pleasingly "right" or "correct" in a self-centered "my brain, even thoug it is only 1% different from a monkey's, is somehow capable of comprehending all that is in the uiniverse through its unstoppable super reasoning powers." I mean, take a close look at this worship of "reason," its a form of species-centrism which makes the medeival churche's insistence on geocentrism seem humble in comparison. But I digress.

The point is that much of the way the world works is not logical and rational. Science freed us to discover that by insisting that the primary value is not logic or reason but observation, empiricism. There is nothing logical or reasonable about special or general relativity or string theory. These are theories which could only be derived under a scientific philosophy which elevated observation over logic.

Its ironic that this essentially superstitious worship of "logic" is so prevalent among the scoffers who feel the need to prove their perception of their intelligence by denouncing the religious.

[Dookus]

67. nice screed...

but I didn't mention logic.

I mentioned rationalistic thinking, which would INCLUDE logic, but doesn't raise it above all else. Empiricism and observation are also part of it.

I don't see where we disagree, other than that I think it's unnecessary for you to try to judge my perception of my own intelligence.

And I will maintain that the great advances in humankind were made by rationalist thinkers, not magical thinkers.

Alchemy failed. Chemistry succeeds.

[Drifter]

54. If these medical "Miracles" ...

were real, and controlled by the actions of a person, doctors would be homeless.

Cheers
Drifter

[Stuckinthebush]

57. Hoax is a strong word

It implys that MT intentionally staged a "miracle" event for the purpose of increasing either her standing in the community or her chances of sainthood after death.

From what I know about MT, I seriously doubt that she would fake a miracle. No matter what our thoughts about religious beliefs are, she believed deeply in the tenets of her faith, and that would negate her ability to actively engage in a hoax.

However, there is the possibility that she was an unwitting player in all of this. A person came to her with an ailment, she prayed, the person then later received other care, and the person was healed. While this set of events has nothing to do with a "miracle", it does explain a great deal about said miracle experience.

Indeed, miracles are based on magical thinking which is irrational at its base, however, individuals who are deeply spiritual do sincerely believe in the possibility of miracles and this allows them to explain events via magical thinking without intellectual dishonesty.

In the end, I would imagine that the answers to the following questions are this:

Was a hoax committed? Most likely not.
Did a miracle happen? Definitely not.
Does MT deserve the positive attention that she has always received? Of course - miracle or no.

I hope MT receives the highest honors that can be given from her faith community because this will show that what she did for humans throughout her life was wonderful and should be held as an example for all of us.

[bleedingheart]

58. In my opinion the miracle is that she spent her life raising money

and caring for the poor. Granted she may not have done what I would have done but she did establish her order and it is there to help.

She stayed with it all of her life, in spite of supposed reservations and deep internal struggle.

I also think that there are a lot of other people who would qualify for sainthood for the very same reason.

[Liberator_Rev]

63. It appears that no one has READ Hitchen's book on Mother Teresa

Judging from the responses so far to the question above (post 30#), it appears that no one here has read "The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice" (Verso, 1995)

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_16_4.html
("Regardless of which side you are on, there is some eye opening stuff in the book.")

which explains why so few people have questioned this famous master of public relations.

I am getting the impression that people don't read many books nowadays.
I've posted web pages on books and those who claim to "refute" what I have say and quote there show little sign of even having read the web pages, let alone the books in question, or any other books on the subject.

[gate of the sun]

68. who knows and who cares

she was a saint in my book and that has nothing to do with miracles.......maybe they need to realize someone willing to do what she did....help the poor and sick was a miracle enough in this world....

[Matilda]

71. I suspect the "miracle", if there was one, has more to do with

the Pope's desire for the speedy canonisation of Mother Theresa. He has waived the normal 50-year wait for the process of beatification, and rushed this one through, once again putting his mark on the Church's proceedings, because of his personal admiration. Yet the beatification process for Pope John XXIII, who did so much to bring the Church into the modern world, and to break down the barriers between Catholicism and Protestantism, not to mention other religions, has been stalled, because this Pope detests everything
John stood for, and has spent much of his pontificate trying to roll
back the Vatican II reforms. It's very personal, and another manifestation of the Pope's bloody-mindedness. Oh yes, just for the record, I'm Catholic.

[MojoKrunch]

73. Absolutely. That "miracle" is about church politics, nothing more.

Anyone who can't see this needs to be clued in.

Thanks for the clear-headedness.

Mojo
Ex-Catholic current IPUer.

[Spider Jerusalem]

76. Whatever else she may have been, Mother Teresa was no saint.

She was a foul, black-hearted hypocrite who cynically exploited the poor and diseased for her own glory; who defended (and accepted large sums of money from) such people as Charles Keating (he of the savings & loan scandal) and the Duvaliers of Haiti; who campaigned against the Irish rescinding their constitutional ban on divorce AND IN THE SAME WEEK said she was "glad" that her "friend" Diana, ex-Princess of Wales, had gotten a divorce "because her marriage had been so unhappy". Were Dante's hell real, she'd be in the eighth circle encased in a cloak of lead.