Patriarch denounces U.S. evangelicals in Iraq

[allemand]

19 May 2005 17:46:49 GMT
Source: Reuters
By Tom Heneghan, Religion Editor

PARIS, May 19 (Reuters) - The head of Iraq's largest Christian community denounced American evangelical missionaries in his country on Thursday for what he said were attempts to convert poor Muslims by flashing money and smart cars.

Patriarch Emmanuel Delly, head of the Chaldean Catholic Church, told journalists that many Protestant activists had come to Iraq after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in 2003 and set up what he called "boutiques" to attract converts. (...)

Saying the evangelicals were not real missionaries, Delly said they attracted poor youths with displays of money and taking them "out riding in cars to have fun".

"Then they take photos and send them here, to Germany, to the United States and say 'look how many Muslims have become Christian'," he said.

More:
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L19124772.htm

[Swamp Rat]

1. I'll bet some of those "evangelicals" are hired to do psyops

for the Pentagon. They are x-tian crusaders helping their master get the oil.

[central scrutinizer]

2. at least they aren't being hypocritical

by actually preaching the teachings of Jesus - you know humility, caring for the poor, that kind of shit. They cut to the chase - money and fast cars. Hell, if they give me a wad of cash and a new car, they can take my picture too and claim to have converted another heathen. I'll tell them anything they want to hear.

[IChing]

3. The Bush Gospel

by : Yankee Blue Veteran
Thursday 19th May 2005 http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6099


THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO DUBYA BUSH, DICK CHENEY DONNIE RUMSFELD CANDY RICE ANNE (The Bitch is Back) COULTER RUSH ‘Pills’ LIMBAUGH BILL ‘Shut Up!’ O’REILLY AND ALL WHO WORSHIP THEM

“Damned are the poor in spirit : for theirs is the kingdom of hell.
“Damned are they that mourn : for they shall be disconsolate.
“Damned are the meek : for they shall inherit nothing.
“Damned are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness : for they shall remain empty.
“Damned are the merciful : for they shall obtain no mercy.
“Damned are the pure in heart : for they shall see Satan.
“Damned are the peacemakers : for they shall be called the children of Satan.
“Damned are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake : for theirs is the kingdom of hell.
“Damned are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for Jesus’ sake.
“Mourn, and be exceeding sad : for great is your reward in hell : for so rewarded us the prophets which were before you.”

SOURCE: The Bush Gospel, Sinner Matthew, Chapter 5, Verses 3 through 12.

[Zorra]

4. Right-wing predators feeding on the need and naivete of the uneducated

poor and using material goods to bait their trap.

Filthy maggots.

From the OP:

Saying the evangelicals were not real missionaries, Delly said they attracted poor youths with displays of money and taking them "out riding in cars to have fun".
snip---
....Delly had no overall figures for these missions but said he knew of 14 evangelical houses, which he called "boutiques", in one central Baghdad neighbourhood alone. "I don't know where their money comes from," he added.

I have seen them doing the same thing in Mexico, on a rutted dirt road in a small pueblo. 2 very well dressed American women with tons of makeup on in a brand spanking new Mercedes SUV, out looking to attract more victims with their pretty shiny things. They couldn't even speak Spanish!

[Massachusetts]

5. History always repeats, different time, place and people, same result.

[eissa]

6. In this case, it's the same place and people

The same thing happened after WWI -- tons of missionaries rushed to ME while it was being carved up by the British and French. Of course, they could never get the Muslims to convert, so they went after the Assyrians, Armenians, Chaldeans, etc. A desperate population recovering from war and genocide, many were easily swayed by the money flaunted in their faces and left their respective churches and joined ranks with the evangelicals.

[Fire Walk With Me]

7. Choose Christ, get your bling-bling

I love it. I'll take the Porsche and the gold necklace with "AHMED" in diamonds, please.

[Nihil]

23. ... and a sticker ...

"I used to be a heathen until I opened my heart to Mammon"

[frictionlessO]

8. Wow! If I was part of Iraq's rebellion I know who I'd be targeting!!!!!

This is just gross and despicable, almost as bad as the child hunters for pedos after the tsunami.

Way to take advantage of someone who is in the middle of trauma.

Further more they should be removed and forced to leave due to the obvious security risks they can (and most likely will) create.

War zones are not for proselytizing no matter what nasty green worm juice Dobson has gotten you to drink!!!

[jwirr]

9. Next thing we know bushie

will be calling this guy an insurgent? Won't let the right wing idiots rewrite christianity in Iraq.

[Zynx]

10. Well, at least those evangelicals are brave

You don't want to try to convert Muslims in a Muslim country. May result in loss of head.

[megatherium]

11. Perhaps we should take the Patriarch's complaints with a grain of salt.

He is probably trying to distance himself in from of the Muslim authorities from Christian evangelization. He may be afraid that the Muslim authorities will blame him for conversions of Muslims; this is a serious matter in Islam, a capital crime in some countries in fact, and the authorities are likely to become extremely angry if this is happening -- angry enough to assassinate Christian leaders.

[solinvictus]

12. No..

Eastern Christianity, collectively at least, has little use for American fundamentalists. The Russian Orthodox Church has been active in stopping the activities of American fundies. Their "charity" isn't charity at all, it's a form of coercive conversion: if you want the food, etc, you'll "get saved".

[megatherium]

14. I don't have much use for American fundamentalists either.

But lost in the shuffle somewhere is the concept of freedom of religion and conscience.

All the Christian churches have a long history of repression of competing churches and religions; the modern Orthodox churches (and the Catholic Church in certain places) will as you point out use civil authority against Protestant evangelicals.

Freedom of religion is completely alien to Islam. Many Islamic states prohibit proselytization, except by Muslims of non-Muslims. In certain countries, proselytization of Muslims to be a capital offense, as well as apostacy from Islam, as is blasphemy (public criticism of Islam or the Prophet). I believe these laws are in place in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia prohibits Christian worship even in private, and the Kingdom will not allow Jews to enter. (American petroleum companies do not assign Jews to their Saudi operations, a remarkable instance of discrimination.)

One irony is that Saddam Hussein gave some rights to his citizens regarding religion. He was a secularist (although he cultivated Islamists late in his regime by such shows of piety as having a copy of the Koran written in his own blood; which manuscript was placed on public display). But now it is likely that Iraq will become a much more conservative Islamic state. There is the beginnings of a civil war, partly Sunni against Shia, but also partly Islamist against secularist. One of the many wonderful things we will have accomplished in our disastrous little outing in Mesopotamia.

[ithacan]

13. or maybe he doesn't like Americans trying to undermine his religion!

It's more likely that he, like orthodox christians elsewhere, are pissed off at these so-called "Christian" fundamentalists who use money to try to undermine local churches.

These missionaries are bad news. They are not just about religion. As we see in the US, they are about forcing a very narrow, right-wing political option down the throats of the majority.

He's probably also pissed off at the American occupation, and Americans coming into his country trying to tell locals how to run it.

[megatherium]

15. I can understand the Patriarch's consternation, but

I have little sympathy for someone complaining about the success of his competition. If a western evangelical group wishes to go to Iraq to build schools and hospitals, as well as preach the Gospel, should they be prohibited from this because the local churches (who have concentrated their energies not on evangelism but on accomodation and survival) complain about how much money they spend? I believe in freedom of religion and an essential component of certain religions is charity and evangelism.

[rooboy]

17. It's not evangelism. It's marketing. n/t

[GoddessOfGuinness]

18. The best religion money can buy?

What's Christian about that? :shrug:

[Bridget Burke]

22. The Evangelicals are building schools & hospitals?

Where are they?

The Chaldean Christian church has ancient roots. They are now one of the Eastern Rite churches associated with the Roman Catholic Church. (Another reason for the Evangelicals to hate them.)

www.newadvent.org/cathen/03559a.htm

Given the political/religious leanings of the Bush regime, those "Evangelizing" in Iraq are correctly viewed as tools of imperialism.

[megatherium]

24. To be honest, I don't know what's going on in Iraq with charities.

However, Christian missions are building hospitals and schools in many places (central America, Africa, etc). I also don't know which evangelical groups operating in Iraq are connected with the Bush regime. (Evangelical does not always mean right-wing; the right-wing evangelicals get huge amounts of airplay because their prejudices are useful to the corporate/military/media establishment.)

The only point I was trying to make is that prejudice can cut both ways. Heaven knows I cannot defend what the US is doing in Iraq, and to the extent that evangelical groups are furthering the Bush agenda there, they do deserve opprobium. But I don't wish to see sincere, legitimate charity or evangelical groups necessarily lumped together with the poisonous ones.

[KamaAina]

16. So, let me see if I've got this straight...

in addition to pissing off pretty much the entire Muslim world, we've somehow also managed to offend the Iraqi Christians?!

Ye gods! :banghead:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

19. I doubt American Muslims would be thrilled by the presence

of Islamic evangelicals if they played the same game here...

[megatherium]

20. Actually, they are playing the same game here.

The Saudis have been spending a great deal of money building mosques in this country: 80% of the mosques in this country are Saudi-built, and often these have Saudi clerics leading them. The problem is that these clerics are Wahabbi, the austere fundamentalist Saudi form of Islam, and some American Muslims are angry about this. In effect, the Saudis have been spending many millions of dollars to hijack Islam in this country.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

25. And there you have it...

Those of us who aren't of any sort of fundy ilk have gotten dragged into another stinkin' holy war. Too bad there's no coliseum where they could all be sent to duke it out without taking innocent lives along with them.

[annabanana]

21. Fristians on the March!

Psyops is right! I'll bet there are a few public bucks in that bling-bling.