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WP: 'Martyrs' In Iraq Mostly Saudis (Foreign Insurgents mostly Saudis)

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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 10:19 PM
Original message
WP: 'Martyrs' In Iraq Mostly Saudis (Foreign Insurgents mostly Saudis)
'Martyrs' In Iraq Mostly Saudis
Web Sites Track Suicide Bombings

By Susan B. Glasser
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 15, 2005; Page A01

Before Hadi bin Mubarak Qahtani exploded himself into an anonymous fireball, he was young and interested only in "fooling around."

Like many Saudis, he was said to have experienced a religious awakening after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States and dedicated himself to Allah, inspired by "the holy attack that demolished the foolish infidel Americans and caused many young men to awaken from their deep sleep," according to a posting on a jihadist Web site.

On April 11, he died as a suicide bomber, part of a coordinated insurgent attack on a U.S. Marine base in the western Iraq city of Qaim. Just two days later, "the Martyrdom" of Hadi bin Mubarak Qahtani was announced on the Internet, the latest requiem for a young Saudi man who had clamored to follow "those 19 heroes" of Sept. 11 and had found in Iraq an accessible way to die.

Hundreds of similar accounts of suicide bombers are featured on the rapidly proliferating array of Web sites run by radical Islamists, online celebrations of death that offer a wealth of information about an otherwise shadowy foe at a time when U.S. military officials say that foreign fighters constitute a growing and particularly deadly percentage of the Iraqi insurgency.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051401270.html
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Another story pulled straight out of someones ass.
Edited on Sat May-14-05 10:27 PM by bemildred
The account of Qahtani's death, like many other individual entries on the Web sites, cannot be verified. But independent experts and former government terrorism analysts who monitor the sites believe they are genuine mouthpieces for the al Qaeda-affiliated radicals who have made Iraq "a melting pot for jihadists from around the world, a training group and an indoctrination center," as a recent State Department report put it. The sites hail death in Iraq as the inspiration for a new generation of terrorists in much the same way that Afghanistan attracted Muslims eager to fight against the Soviet Union in the 1980s.

Not one fact cited, no URLs, nothing.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Actually, there is a URL on page 2,
and one on page 3, but I would not necessarily suggest to click on them. Info may be sketchy, agreed, but I accept the notion that Saudis make up a large percentage of the mooj visitors in country.

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Eh, OK. I don't have Arabic (unfortunately).
I would be shocked if the defense department does not have
a number of "mooj" websites deployed, and the "foreign fighters"
meme is a propaganda line intended to imply that it is not the
native iraqis that are doing their level best to kill our troops.

I would be surprised as far as that goes if the "mooj" fighters
are not from a wide variety of nations in the area, but certainly
Saudi Arabia would be one.

The question that comes to my mind when I am presented with this
sort of story is: "Why is the Ministry or Truth expending effort to
present this story to the masses?" I recommend it to you as well.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. What a coincidence; most the 911 hijackers were Saudi, too.
NONE were Iraqi.

bush loves his Saudi buddies.
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allemand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. 'Martyrs' In Iraq Mostly Saudis
Who are the suicide bombers of Iraq? By the radicals' account, they are an internationalist brigade of Arabs, with the largest share in the online lists from Saudi Arabia and a significant minority from other countries on Iraq's borders, such as Syria and Kuwait. The roster of the dead on just one extremist Web site reviewed by The Washington Post runs to nearly 250 names, ranging from a 13-year-old Syrian boy said to have died fighting the Americans in Fallujah to the reigning kung fu champion of Jordan, who sneaked off to wage war by telling his family he was going to a tournament.

Among the dead are students of engineering and English, the son of a Moroccan restaurateur and a smattering of Europeanized Arabs. There are also long lists of names about whom nothing more is recorded than a country of origin and the word "martyr."

Some counterterrorism officials are skeptical about relying on information from publicly available Web sites, which they say may be used for disinformation. But other observers of the jihadist Web sites view the lists of the dead "for internal purposes" more than for propaganda, as British researcher Paul Eedle put it. "These are efforts on the part of jihadis to collate deaths. It's like footballers on the Net getting a buzz out of knowing somebody's transferred from Chelsea to Liverpool." Or, as Col. Thomas X. Hammes, an expert on insurgency with the National Defense University, said, "they are targeted marketing. They are not aimed at the West."

Many of the Arabs, according to the postings, were drawn to fight in Iraq under the banner of al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the group run by Jordanian militant Abu Musab Zarqawi that has taken credit for a gruesome series of beheadings, kidnappings and suicide attacks -- many of them filmed and then disseminated on the Internet in a convergence between the electronic jihad and the real-life war.

More:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051401270.html

However, Juan Cole comments:

The Washington Post argues that a disproportionate number of suicide bombings in Iraq is carried out by foreign jihadis, and that Saudis constitute 50 percent or more of the bombers. But if you look more closely, the article admits that there are only about 1,000 foreign jihadis fighting in Iraq. I'd figure the number of Iraqi guerrillas at 25,000 hardcore, and nearly twice that if we count weekend warriors, so this group is a relatively minor part of the whole.

What is the proof that they make up more of the suicide bombers? The names gleaned from radical Muslim fundamentalist websites, where "martyrdoms" are announced. Personally, I don't think you can trust those web sites. I think they are being manipulated by Iraqi Baath military intelligence, which benefits from being able to blame bombings of, e.g., Shiites on foreigners. The foreign jihadis in Iraq are not the major actors. The Baath and the remnants of the Iraq military are.

The attraction of the "foreigners thesis" for Washington is obvious. It allows the Bush administration to sidestep the implication that a substantial proportion of the Iraqi public violently rejects the US presence. And it implicitly ties Iraq to al-Qaeda, which accords with a long-term black psy-ops operation of the administration aimed at making a connection between Iraq and September 11 in the minds of Americans (actually, there is none).
http://www.juancole.com/2005/05/british-question-us-terms-of.html
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. A whole lot of counties have a heat score with the U.S.
And yet we try to force our will on others in the name of greed while professing the love of Jesus Christ.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Saudi Arabia has a quiet little unemployment problem
...amongst their young. How long can you hang around the house cadging off of dear old dad? It's not like you can run down to the pub and hang out with your mates, and dating isn't a possibility either. There comes a point when ya gotta do SOMETHING.

It's a stupid choice, but a lot of kids with no goals, no direction, and no real hope for a life even half as good as their parents' might find the milk and honey of martyrdom if not attractive, on their list of "maybe to do." The freedom fighting aspect appeals to some, and then, once they are in it, they are in it...boom!

It really doesn't matter if these disaffected youth are a minority of the total kicking it in Iraq, either a large or small minority. The fact that they are there AT ALL suggests a problem in the Kingdom, one that probably will get worse before it gets better.

A bit tangential to the essential thesis, but notable, nonetheless.
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I agree
It's not unlikely that there around a thousand Saudis waging jihad in Iraq. It would also not surprise me that a high percentage of the suicide bombers who kill civilians are Saudis. But their number as percentage of all the rebels is probably negligible.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Percentage of all "rebels" maybe but as non-Iraqis??
Would you guess how their numberts compare to say Iran or even Syria? It would be my guess that there are as many Saudis as Syrians actually in Iraq fighting yet not a word is said against Saudi Arabia.
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yeah, I agree
I meant percentage of all rebels of whom the vast majority are Iraqis. My impression is that a large proportion of the foreigners are Saudis and that there are very few Syrians and Iranians fighting there.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
10. So, our forces are concentrating on the Syrian border in an effort...
to spark a justified invasion of Syria yet the majority of the suicide bombers are coming in from the Propagandist's butt-buddies in Saudi Arabia?



I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. Saudis engaged in acts of terrorism?
Not Bush's good friends? Maybe he should go hold some more Saudi hands.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. This still dances around the obvious - this kid would still be alive if we
WOULDN'T have invaded Iraq! AMERICA causes all this hatred and violence around the world. This puff piece article leaves out the obvious - a few foreigners are dying in Iraq while a 100,000 Iraqis have died at the hands of American soldiers! Propagandi.
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