Indignation Grows in US over British Prewar Documents (LATimes)

[rodeodance]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-memogate12may12,1,7966962.story

> Indignation Grows in US over British Prewar Documents
> By John Daniszewski
> The Los Angeles Times
>
> Thursday 12 May 2005
>
> Critics of Bush call them proof that he and Blair never saw diplomacy as an option with Hussein.

>
> London - Reports in the British press this month based on documents indicating that President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair had conditionally agreed by July 2002 to invade Iraq appear to have blown over quickly in Britain.
>
> But in the United States, where the reports at first received scant attention, there has been growing indignation among critics of the Bush White House, who say the documents help prove that the leaders made a secret decision to oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein nearly a year before launching their attack, shaped intelligence to that aim and never seriously intended to avert the war through diplomacy.
>
> The documents, obtained by Michael Smith, a defense specialist writing for the Sunday Times of London, include a memo of the minutes of a meeting July 23, 2002, between Blair and his intelligence and military chiefs; a briefing paper for that meeting and a Foreign Office legal opinion prepared before an April 2002 summit between Blair and Bush in Texas.
>
> The picture that emerges from the documents is of a British government convinced of the US desire to go to war and Blair's agreement to it, subject to several specific conditions......

[jasmeel]

1. I just made abbreviated versions of this story and posted it

around my building! It felt good!!

[jean]

3. saaay... that's a very good idea!

:headbang:

[Zorra]

13. I printed up batches of this article and other related articles and

dropped them off about 1 1/2 hrs ago.;-)

[rzemanfl]

2. A little slow on the uptake, but better late than never. n/t

[Vincardog]

4. About FKING time

[K8-EEE]

20. The US Press Is SCARED TO DEATH of BushCo....

Why else would they be sitting on something that is frontpage news everywhere else?? Definitely worse than Watergate.

[katty]

62. Presstitutes are shaking with fear @the Fourth Reich

[Ernesto]

69. Witness the evidence

Newsweek just retracted the Koran flushing story following lie-house pressure to do so.

[xchrom]

5. so how much will it take to tip the scales?

the iraq war was wrong -- and every day, every week, every month since this misadventure started another piece of info comes that says bushco acted like criminals.

oh yeah that's right they're american criminals with the right pedigree -- they get a pass.

[ovidsen]

6. We're Americans! We're slow, but we catch on....

[Protagoras]

59. What media outlet will be needed to really PUSH this

into the public awareness? Front page of the NYT? Or ABC news? LATimes is a nice start but it doesn't seem to have much mid-America impact (sadly)

[K8-EEE]

7. It's A Freaking Smoking Gun--Is Everyone OD's On Prozak?

WHY isn't this thing front page screaming headlines....BUSH KNEW! BUSH LIED! MANY, MANY, MANY PEOPLE DIED.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

9. Yes, it's growing.

:eyes:

It's literally the elephant in the room.

[understandinglife]

8. MNA Day 3 only 17 deaths away. You betcha we're indignant.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3632200&mesg_id=3640773&page=

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - Be it MNA Day 3 or 8 or 15 or .... the day will come when 10s of millions of Americans and others stop their typical activities for 24 hours and urge 10 times that many to join should another MNA Day be required. On that glorious day America will have begun truly to be "America," again.

[halobeam]

33. self delete

[kodi]

10. the big story is not so much bush lied, but that the media wont report it

What is being undermined is the self correctional process in a free society of having an independent media report factual events that are newsworthy.

How news paper and TV editors can assume that the verification of a major criticism of the bush-iraqi war is not newsworthy is prima fascia evidence that the major media are corrupt.

[lyonn]

12. Major Media Corruption

Very accurate phrase. Bought and paid for. They have no shame.

[Vincardog]

34. Corporate Controlled Propaganda organs Please

Call a spade a spade. Mo more Main Stream than Provda

[Occulus]

54. nono, it should be Completely Controlled Corporate Propaganda

Abbr. CCCP.

Who ever said the Soviet era ended? :)

(oh. It's spelled "Pravda". Just me being anal, pay me no mind)

[hvn_nbr_2]

67. CCCP Pravda - I like it. n/t

[Toucano]

23. The media doesn't think it's news because

the media already knew it.

I've actually heard the press dismiss the story with the statement, "Everyone already knows Bush wanted Saddam gone."

How they imagine "everyone" already knows this is beyond me.

[Toots]

49. But Saddam's been gone for over a year and people are still dying, babies

What the hell is wrong with you America? Why are people dying?

[AuntiBush]

53. It's their "mentality." Helps them sleep at night & cash $$ Checks!

No conscious duty to their fellow Americans.

They're not "mainstream media." They're "talking heads." And that's about it. They might as well reap in all they can sow now. 'Cause if we can make it out of this, and gain back our true freedom-based America they might as well pack their bags and leave.

Can't imagine anyone of them ever gaining our respect, ever again. At least not the "majority" of us!

:)

[suegeo]

46. In the Minneapolis Star-Trib today...

We're being told to move on. This is old news and nobody cares that Bush lied to get his war. and that "Most Americans are focused on seeking positive outcomes from the war, not reason to blame the Bush administration for starting it."

How the quoted, dipshit political science professor determines what MOST Americans want is anyone's guess. My guess -- he pulls that out of his ass.

How the Strib reporter found this dipshit political science prof is also anyone's guess.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/5401197.html

QUOTE
The underlying reality is that the United States has moved beyond the debate over the reasons for invading Iraq, said Daniel Hofrenning, a political scientist at St. Olaf College in Northfield. Most Americans are focused on seeking positive outcomes from the war, not reason to blame the Bush administration for starting it.

"It doesn't mean President Bush gets a free pass, but the evidentiary standard has to be pretty high before he suffers from something like this," Hofrenning said. "At the end of the day, citizens are going to judge him on whether a viable democracy is established in Iraq."
END QUOTE

[Barkley]

60. That's an unbelievable quote!

At the end of the day citizens want government accountability. We want to know how, where and why our tax dollars are being spent.

We want to know why our troops are dying.

The ends do not justify the means...

To assume that Americans are only interested in the outcome is very simplistic!

Already a majority of US citizens see the war as not being worth it.

We're spending billions in Iraq while our SS is supposedly going bust.

Do you honestly believe that the Iraqis would spend their last dime and 1600 plus lives to bring America 'democracy' if we were in such a situation?

Thanks suegeo for a wonderful post.

[ninkasi]

76. Well, the Americans I know are pissed about it

The ones I know are saying that there are many other brutal dictators in the world, and that we can't police them all, or bring democracy to them.

They are far more concerned with disappearing jobs, the shit jobs that are being offered instead, the inability to find housing at a decent price, or being able to send their kids to college. They worry about not having insurance, or insurance being unaffordable, and worry about whether Social Security will be wrecked by Bush & Co.

Bringing democracy to Iraq is very, very far down on the list of things the people I know worry about. At the end of the day, they will judge Bush by the immense amount of damage he has caused this country, the reduced standard of living for the majority of us, and his kid glove treatment of the rich.

The ones who have either lost a loved one, or comforted a friend who has, and the ones whose loved ones come back broken in body in spirit do not really, to tell you the truth, care at this point about draining our treasury to bring democracy to Iraq. They only want someone in authority to try to alleviate their own suffering, since any relief will come with tax dollars they have contributed to the country in the first place.

[Frederik]

92. A paid GOP stooge

At the end of the day, citizens are going to judge him on whether a viable democracy is established in Iraq."

Yes, because it doesn't matter how the war was justified before it was initiated, does it? Of course, a "stable viable democracy" is lightyears away, so that is bad enough, but THAT WAS NOT THE REASON FOR INVADING IRAQ THAT WAS PRESENTED TO US!!! WE WERE TOLD ABOUT MUSHROOM CLOUDS AND ANTHRAX AND 45 MINUTE WARNINGS!!! IT WAS ALL A PACK OF LIES!!!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

11. Every morning on CSPAN you can hear some RW dittohead

mention Iraq's WMD.

We now live in a nation of fools. This will die shortly. America's been brainwashed much too thoroughly.

[aneerkoinos]

14. Unions

Why are not the unions threatening with and/or starting a general strike untill the criminals in charge are put behind bars?

Fact: We the people have the power, we just choose not to use it. Or we are just small minority whiners nobody pays attention to.

[Zorbuddha]

36. Exactly

You put your finger on it.

You bad, bad man.

[Toots]

50. Best question I have heard asked lately.

Why have the Unions not questioned these people's antics. They are not Labor friendly and are in fact criminal. I do not belong to any Union but will honor their action at all times.

[BR_Parkway]

52. Hell, the unions just got raped out of their pensions, but they showed up

for work the next day. If the unions are going to remain relevant in today's society, their leadership needs to remember who they represent too - and it's not the politicians that give them "access"

The media can't report it. Plain and simple

If everyone in US knew about it and got properly outraged - the stock market would crash and the media companies would have a value of $0.00. To report anything bad about this admin is the equivalent of corporate suicide.

[Ernesto]

71. "the unions"........ wtf?

The UAL deal involved only a couple of America's UNIONs. On the other hand, those effected union members will get 2/3rds of their pensions. 2/3rds is much better than the nothing that un-organized workers generally get.

[Ernesto]

70. If you were ever a member, you might understand that UNIONS are

"mini-democracies". Union leaders serve @ the whims of members who are interested in jobs & security for their families. Consequently, members require that their officers DO what they are elected & paid to do in a full-time manner. Also, (sadly IMHO,) not all UNION members see the world the way DUers do.

[caligirl]

15. Indignation Grows in U.S. Over British Prewar Documents

# Critics of Bush call them proof that he and Blair never saw diplomacy as an option with Hussein.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/complete/la-fg-memogate12may12,1,6906930.story?coll=la-iraq-complete

LONDON — Reports in the British press this month based on documents indicating that President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair had conditionally agreed by July 2002 to invade Iraq appear to have blown over quickly in Britain.

But in the United States, where the reports at first received scant attention, there has been growing indignation among critics of the Bush White House, who say the documents help prove that the leaders made a secret decision to oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein nearly a year before launching their attack, shaped intelligence to that aim and never seriously intended to avert the war through diplomacy.

The documents, obtained by Michael Smith, a defense specialist writing for the Sunday Times of London, include a memo of the minutes of a meeting July 23, 2002, between Blair and his intelligence and military chiefs; a briefing paper for that meeting and a Foreign Office legal opinion prepared before an April 2002 summit between Blair and Bush in Texas.

The picture that emerges from the documents is of a British government convinced of the U.S. desire to go to war and Blair's agreement to it, subject to several specific conditions


Its catching folks.:thumbsup:

[EndElectoral]

16. This despite the refusal of TV networks to cover the story!

[VegasWolf]

28. Exactly! Just where is this supposed indignation? It's awfully quiet

here. Why, one could probably kill some 1,783 innocent
Americans over theses OIL crusades, and get away scott free.

[darkism]

17. The greatest yet of **'s impeachable offenses.

I BELIEVE!

I believe that outrage is still alive and well in America!
I believe that there still exist politicians with principle!

I believe that this story isn't going away!

Let the families of the 1600+ who died for this sham rise up and demand answers from the one who sent their children to death.




Let it begin.

[zann725]

39. Sounds like it's time to start a new "I believe" thread!

n/t

[tblue37]

58. I'll believe it when I see it.

There still isn't any significant outrage over the outing of Valerie Plame, either.

IOKIYAR*
_______

*It's OK if You're a Republican

[leftchick]

18. Best US Headline Yet!

:woohoo:

I WILL be optimistic for a change here. At least for a night!

:)

[Zorra]

79. kick

[ailsagirl]

19. Man, the repug damage control dept. must be sweating bullets!!

Can't you just see them scurrying around, trying to figure out ways to worm their way out of the trouble they're in??

:evilgrin: :bounce: :nopity:

[bleever]

21. Or small airplanes.

:)

[glitch]

93. !

Naughty. ;)

[annarbor]

22. Any comments....

from the Italians, Germans, French, Canadians, Spaniards etc?
Why aren't we hearing the "I told you so" from those countries that opposed our invasion of Iraq? Why can't we get this info posted on every front page of every newspaper in the world? I personally think that the world has turned a deaf ear to what Bush and Blair have done.
Just my two cents....

Ann Arbor

[Fire Walk With Me]

29. Speaking of the Italians

The cut-and-paste Army memo on the killing of the Italian journalist has also faded into the netherworld...

[cyr330]

24. I'm afraid to be optimistic

I've been just overjoyed so many times just thinking about that fraud in the WH being impeached. I'm too afraid to become too excited about anything right now, but I'll never object to reading something that will potentially bring that pathetic little man down. I'm so ashamed that our country has him in the WH; we'll have to live this down for the rest of our lives. . . .

[Kurovski]

25. It's a "good" thing Britain went to Iraq

without the British press, this might never have come to the fore.

[VegasWolf]

26. Oil, oil, everywhere! and not a drop for the little chimp baby. n/t

[Octafish]

31. A tanker! A tanker! My kingdom for a tanker!

[David Zephyr]

27. Kick.

n/t

[Octafish]

30. Chimpeach the little turd from Crawford.

Bush lied America into an ILLEGAL and UNNECESSARY war.

Indict.
Impeach.
Convict.
Sentence.



Did I mention he's a war criminal, too?

[ooglymoogly]

32. they are waiting to see what color the smoke is from the gun

this idiot would not be president if it were not for their enthusiastic support while running wall to wall interference, shaivo, jackson, missing white girls, runaway bride, etc they have a lot to lose here...this is big folks...imo

[yorkiemommie1]

35. Page A3 Below the fold

Why not front page headline in BOLD??

I emailed them to ask.

[Singular73]

37. Sadly, this is a non-starter

Noone wants to think about this anymore.

The only reply from the right you will get on this is "the election is over".

EDIT:

Actually, I have no clue. I have known this since the beginning, so for me, it has absolutely no shock value. Perhaps the sheeple will finally find it interesting.

I really, really doubt it though.

[EST]

41. Hi, and welcome to DU!

was wondering when you'd get here.

[lovuian]

38. I noticed the LA times did not publish the whole memo!!!

It has names and the way it is worded is extremely damning!!!

that this is only reported by LA and Washington post and no mention on CNN MSNBC Fox and other news channels is very damning for our News Media who were major cheerleaders in the campaign for Iraq War!!!

[Starfury]

42. And yet...

...this article still tops the LA Times list of most emailed stories. They can try to avoid it, but we're not letting them get away clean. Keep up the pressure...

[rodeodance]

66. I want to scream!!!!!

[Stand and Fight]

40. Another great thread, gotta kick it! n/t

[sam sarrha]

43. the end is near..

:kick:

[realFedUp]

44. finally

The LAte Times usually comes through eventually
if not swiftly.

[gulfcoastliberal]

45. Where is Dean, Reid, Kerry, Pelosi on this issue?

The Dems strategy again seems to be to ignore any serious evidence of wrongdoing by this administration. Until the Dem party leadership gets on this and demands answers, it will go the way of Plame. It'll be buried and forgotten in no time by the 4th estate.

If Kerry sent me an email about this, I'd respond.

[Chicago Democrat]

47. Indignant? Outraged! THE LAST STRAW

Impeachment!


NOW

[Zorra]

48. kick

[Zorra]

51. kick

[Bake]

55. It doesn't f-ing matter.

I'm really pessimistic tonight. But the Brit memo doesn't matter. Nothing fucking matters, becuse the corp/MSM will not report it.

Bush could get caught in bed with Michael Jackson and five young boys and it wouldn't matter.

We are so fucked. Sorry.

Bake

[Griffy]

88. your wrong... because new media is growing.. people are seeing!

It takes time.. the repugs took DECADES to build this empire! keep spreading the word.. we are winning the minds of Americans...

[Zorra]

56. Kick

[Zorra]

57. kick

[Zorra]

61. kick

[yellowcanine]

63. Yep, I saw an indignation shrub shooting up in my neighbor's yard just

this morning. And he voted for Bush.

[rodeodance]

64. well, McCain said he does not believe in the memo (see discussion).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1474370&mesg_id=1476810

[rodeodance]

65. and the WH still has not responded (per Conyers via Mpls Star)

ignore and ignore some more--in hopes the story will fade away is the strategy (they may be right!! except McCain has put his 2cents in--denying the story--which i hope will stir up the soap a bit)--see line above for story.



http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/5401197.html
A Cold War-era spy story

The Bush administration has not responded to the Democrats' inquiry, said Michigan Rep. John Conyers Jr., who initiated the request. The White House and the National Security Council also did not respond to the Star Tribune's requests for comment.

Although this latest divisive war news raced worldwide via the modern blogosphere, it surfaced like a Cold War-era spy story replete with code names and spilled secrets.

On May 1, the Sunday Times of London published what it said was a secret summary of a meeting Prime Minister Tony Blair and his top advisers held in his Downing Street offices on July 23, 2002, eight months before the invasion of Iraq.

Labeled "extremely sensitive," the memo says Blair and others were briefed by "C," (standard code for the head of Britain's Secret Intelligence Service who, at the time, was Sir Richard Dearlove). C had just returned from Washington, D.C., and the memo recapped his assessment: "Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD (weapons of mass destruction). But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. ... There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.".........

[Pachamama]

68. McCain is a shill for * & can kiss bye bye chances for Presidency in 08!

How dare a "soldier" who was a POW no less in the Vietnam war who KNOWS that that war was based on many lies and as a result cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of people and soldiers, that he would even for a moment try to defend this so called Prez and his war/invasion/occupation that was based on LIES!

Fuck you McCain! Fuck you and the rest of your lieing GOP shills for this administration! :grr:

[struggle4progress]

72. kick

[steve2470]

73. keep this kicked for democracy !!! nt

[Zorra]

74. kick

[Zorra]

75. kick

[Zorra]

77. kick

[Zorra]

78. kick

[Zorra]

80. kick

[0007]

81. The people are catching on to junior and his nasty tricks

and the unnecessary deaths of the U.S. troops and his unconcerned attitude of death and destruction of folks of other counties, namely Iraq.

[Zorra]

82. kick

[Zorra]

83. kick

[Zorra]

84. kick

[realFedUp]

85. kick

sometimes the wheels of justice move sssssllllllllooooowwwwwllllly.

[hector459]

86. This makes wonderful handbill fodder.

I hope the "justicefornone" site picks this up.

[Rockerdem]

87. Sadly, all this kicking reminds me that the headline is mistaken

I wish it were true, but the memo story is only alive and well on websites that cater to informed people. Elsewhere, it isnt mentioned or is carried on page B15 in a few blue state newspapers. There should be universal outrage, but, alas, the Jackson trial and inane Amber Alerts smother it.

[Griffy]

91. No mistake, faux viewership down 53% in 6 months! people are waking...

to the truth.. a little here.. a little there... if you went to the media reform conference you would see the revolution underway! New media is growing while all the liars are losing thier audiences! Theres a REASON for that!!!

[Frederik]

89. Where's that indignation?

I can't see it.

[The Stranger]

90. "Critics" call them proof? How about any sentient being calls them proof.