Iraq Attacks Kill 79, as Resistance Escalates (US ends Operation Matador)

[Roland99]

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/12/1425252

Now to Iraq. The confirmed death toll from yesterday's large-scale resistance attacks across the country has now risen to 79 people with more than 120 wounded. In the past two weeks, more than 415 people have been killed in such attacks, including 250 Iraqi soldiers, police and recruits. Meanwhile, 14 U.S. soldiers have died in a Marine offensive near the Syrian border. And US officials have now been forced to admit that that operation was not as successful as previously claimed and that the Marines are wrapping up "Operation Matador" with no clear objective achieved. The New York Times said the eruption of violence "has carried the insurgency to levels rarely seen in the 25 months since American troops seized Baghdad." The paper goes on to say it has left the new government of Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari looking vulnerable only nine days after it was sworn into office.

Beautiful.

[Jo March]

1. It just keeps getting better and better

Damn. Just...damn.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

2. what quagmire?

freedom is on the march!
:sarcasm:

[Mikimouse]

6. Reminds me of Peter Sellers and his 'Suit of Lights'...n/t

[Mikimouse]

8. Oopsy! Response was meant for bushisanidiot...sorry

AND, I corrected the typo in the subject line. This just isn't my day.

[calimary]

28. Hey, don't sweat it - it could be worse. You could be over there.

OR you could be over there looking at the new orders you've just received that tell you to keep spinning it as a big-ass red-white-and-blue patriotic star-spangled success, when everything we've touched over there turns to shit, and you keep seeing more and more quotes from Iraqis like the following:

45-year-old minibus driver Abdullah Jassim Mohammed said.
"All of a sudden there was a big explosion and I saw a man dying in front of me. The US convoy was unharmed," the driver said, who sustained slight head wounds.
"Since Americans invaded our country they have brought nothing but evil."
- AFP
http://www.abc.net.au/cgi-bin/common/printfriendly.pl?http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200505/s1364588.htm

[Jacobin]

10. HEY!. Rumsfeld 'doesn't do quagmires', so

STOP SAYING THAT!!

Otherwise, he'll do a press conference, ask himself questions and then answer them.

For instance:

RM: "Is the Iraqi insurgency on a temporary uptick? Sure it is."
RM: "Are our soldiers fighting magnificently? You betcha"

[calimary]

27. Yeah. "Mission Accomplished" alright.

:sarcasm:

[UpInArms]

32. Commander in Chief lands on USS Lincoln

excerpt:

Moments after the landing, the president, wearing a green flight suit and holding a white helmet, got off the plane, saluted those on the flight deck and shook hands with them. Above him, the tower was adorned with a big sign that read, "Mission Accomplished."

<snip>

The landing came just hours before Bush is to tell the nation that major combat operations in Iraq have ended. The speech will be delivered from the carrier's flight deck at 9 p.m. EDT.

...more...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/01/sprj.irq.bush.speech/index.html

ABOARD USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN (CNN) -- President Bush on Thursday praised the toppling of Saddam Hussein as "a job well done," but he warned that the battle in Iraq was but "one victory in a war on terror."

Bush, addressing the nation not from the White House but from the dramatic setting of the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln, announced: "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended." (Transcript)

...more...

Standing on the giant flight deck, with a banner reading "Mission Accomplished" overhead on the bridge, the commander-in-chief saluted the men and women of the U.S. military.

[bushisanidiot]

3. Who was the bull and who was the matador?

i'm confused..

[Roland99]

50. Maybe JimmyJeff (Bulldog) gave them the idea

[Lochloosa]

4. Who wants to say the word first.....

Vietnam...

And US officials have now been forced to admit that that operation was not as successful as previously claimed and that the Marines are wrapping up "Operation Matador" with no clear objective achieved.

[DemoTex]

16. "Operation Matador" is evocative of "Operation Masher" from 'Nam.

Operation Masher/White-Wing led the 1st Cav into some serious shit with the NVA in Binh Dinh province in January 1966. And here we are almost 40 years later making the same mistakes for a cabal's lie.

[Roland99]

20. Ideology running a war

A deadly combination.

[Sterling]

31. It's Iraqnam now.

nt

[rocktivity]

39. "If we don't put some THOUGHT into how we retaliate,

we're going to end up with a war that has Viet Nam's fingerprints all over it."

:headbang:
rocknation (September 2001)

[leftchick]

36. Yes but "Success" has been embedded in the tv viewer's brain

I am thinking cnn/msrnc and faux won't be reporting on the Non-success of operation "bullshit". :eyes:

[endarkenment]

40. In fact 'matador' is worse than they are saying.

We venture outside of our safe zones and we get killed. The insurgents are running a prolonged offensive - what is it going on 3-4 weeks now? Matador didn't cause them to even blink. We leveled fallujah and they said 'so what?'. They've gotten better and more effective on all levels. Keep in mind that they deliberately experimented with trapping operations before this offensive, testing out our response procedures to prolonged engagements. I predict that they are planning an event that is going to truly shock the public here, that our MSM will not be able to ignore, that will give the neocons their tet offensive moment. We are going to pay in blood for what we have done. Nothing good is going to come out of this.

[leftchick]

44. depressing as it is...

I agree with your prediction. Occupying countries historically have never succeeded against a guerrilla resistance intent on ousting them.

Welcome to DU endarkenment

Glad to have you here.

[aneerkoinos]

46. Depressing?

Understandable sentiment because of all the tragedy, but in the name of liberty, that is also a jubilant fact: colonialism has become impossibility in the long run.

My prediction is that the Shia governement (with support of Iran) will try to establish shia military (putting all existin militias toghether) in a year or less, that has enough credibility against any possible attempt at Baath retake of control, and the cut a deal with patriotic & islamist Sunni resistance and tell US (others have left allready) to leave. If and when US troops refuse to, the real war starts and US troops will be killed. Kurds will be no problem, Turkey balances them out.

[Roland99]

49. But when do the American corporations face their worst fears?

[aneerkoinos]

51. For fucks sake

why should I or anybody else care what US or other corporations fear????!!!!

Other than intellectual games on how will the corporativism react to what is going on, of course, and how to counteract that.


Edit to add: corporations may be legal persons (sociopathic such) but they are not sentient beings, like truly living beings are, so why to give fuck? Fuck all corporations!

[Roland99]

54. Well, that's a big reason why we're there. The raping of Iraq's industries

by American companies. No more nationalized industries in Iraq.

[aneerkoinos]

58. OK

Philospophical/ethical question: Is there much point aplying analogies of feelings of sentien beings such as us to anti-human, anti-life capitalist entitities such as corporations?

I think we agree. Call me radical! :)

[Jacobin]

5. "Matador?"

Who thinks up the names of these idiotic missions that the generals send out troops out on, risking their lives, killing Iraqis, for WHAT?

[Cha]

34. rove? n/t

[Massacure]

52. I agree. They should try something like "Operation Für Das Fuehrer"

[LiberallyInclined]

59. so that's a matador...

some people might remember where that comes from...?

[dchill]

62. 1971 - 1978

Car commercial for American Motors "Matador." The commercial was probably more widely known than the car.

[NewJeffCT]

7. Remember what Bush says

The more attacks there are means that the insurgents are getting more & more desparate because we're winning. (or something along those lines...)

So, we must be pretty fracking close to being able to wrap Iraq up in a pretty pink bow and rename it "Paradise" and start promoting it as an alternative to Hawaii for honeymoons.

[jab105]

33. But, if we wrap it up with a pretty pink bow of peace...does that mean

then that we are not winning since the insurgents are not attacking...

Sometimes Orwell2005 is so confusing...

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

9. Recommended

This has been going on behind the pinecones and Cessnas and McCaulay Culkin soft porn.

The insurgents are fighting in uniform and flak jackets. They are well-trained. Their mortar rounds are hitting. It is a different war now.

[ewagner]

11. 14 Dead U.S. Soldiers?

What did the pentagon do? Did they "dribble" out the information in little bits so the shock of 14 killed would be less?

This reminds me more of what the old Soviet Union did in regards to their fighting in Afghanistan in the'80's to hide the true extent of the carnage from the public.

RIP Soldiers.

[ozymandius]

24. 14 dead for WHAT exactly?

No clear objective. Just flexing of muscle. Wanton waste of lives.

[ewagner]

25. Forgot to add that point

What kind of military leader would embark on an expedition with "no clear objective"?

Col. Hackworth must be rolling in his grave!

[Roland99]

26. I wonder what their specific orders were?

Keep inching closer to Syria in the hopes of incurring an attack from Syria and thereby justifying invading Syria?

[dArKeR]

12. refused money from the US army in exchange for leaving. No work, no house

A US soldier lights a cigarette as an old Iraqi woman sits on the ground inside a former military compound at al-Dora district south of Baghdad yesterday. More than 70 displaced families, who took refuge in the former president Saddam Hussein's army military compound, refused an offer of money from the US army in exchange for leaving. Thousands of Iraqis, who were evicted from their homes by post-war rent hikes, live among of the ruins of devastated military compounds across the war-torn capital.
PHOTO: AFP

The proof that America will disintegrate is in the Media Whore Lies!

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/05/10/2003253955

[pie]

17. Why were there post-war rent hikes? wtf

[oasis]

23. Halliburton must've experienced a cost overrun while rebuilding Iraq.

I wonder if this old woman knows about Halliburton's $72 million bonus for the fine job they did.

[calimary]

29. Yeah, we're winning their hearts and minds alright.

:sarcasm:

[hank1901]

13. Who made the statement that is in bold? The NYT quotes Colonel Chase

and that is not what he said. I guess you can print anything you want nowadays.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/12/international/middleeast/12cnd-iraq.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5094&en=f966fe9ae54659d2&hp&ex=1115956800&partner=homepage

In the northwestern desert, along Iraq's border with Syria, marines who carried out a major offensive against the insurgents over the weekend appeared to be winding down their operations. Col. Bob Chase, chief of operations for the Second Marine Division, based in Ramadi, said there had been "very little significant action" on Wednesday after days of strikes along insurgent infiltration routes that follow the Euphrates eastward from the border city of Husayba. Earlier, the 1,000-man battle group had reported killing about 100 insurgents, with a loss of three Marines, but Colonel Chase said there appeared to be few military-aged males left in the area. "We think the enemy has gone to ground and melded back into the cities," he said.

[Roland99]

15. Try reading the article: "US officials"

Doesn't say Col. Bob Chase, does it?

[Roland99]

14. Here are some good articles showing what Marine Lima Company when thru

'They Came Here to Die'
Insurgents Hiding Under House in Western Iraq Prove Fierce in Hours-Long Fight With Marines
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/10/AR2005051000221.html?nav=hcmodule


and



Demise of a Hard-Fighting Squad
Marines Who Survived Ambush Are Killed, Wounded in Blast
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/11/AR2005051101737.html



Be sure to read all of each article.

I guarantee you'll be in tears by the end of each one.

[Sterling]

35. Hiding under house=bomb the house, job done. What is our army up to anyway

It's like Bush fired all the real military men and our army no longer understands basic combined arms theory?

[Roland99]

37. They didn't know they were hiding under the house until later

[KeepItReal]

47. WTF are Marines doing INLAND on AMTRACS??

The Amtrac is an amphibious assault vehicle. It is only supposed to get Marines to from the ship to the beach. It is not made for cruising along the Syrian border like RPG/landmine bait.

Rumsfeld and Co. have thrown military strategy and tactics out the window (for their smaller-lighter-faster BS) and we are seeing the end-result.

[daleo]

18. No clear objective?

A lot of people were killed - for Bush that is objective enough.

[yellowcanine]

19. So how many of the dead were "insurgents" and how many were just

innocent Iraqi villagers? This may not be Vietnam but switch a few place names and change the date to 1965 and you would be hard put to tell the difference. And btw, what happened to "We don't do body counts."? Yesterday the number of "dead insurgents" was being trumpeted about as "over 100".

On edit: Case in point....

Colonel Chase said there appeared to be few military-aged males left in the area. "We think the enemy has gone to ground and melded back into the cities," he said.

Change "cities" to "jungle" .....

"And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die."

[Zorra]

21. The entire war should be termed "Operation Bush's holocaust".

July 23, 2002

IRAQ: PRIME MINISTER'S MEETING, 23 JULY
snip------
C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.
snip---
The Attorney-General said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action. There were three possible legal bases: self-defence, humanitarian intervention, or UNSC authorisation. The first and second could not be the base in this case. Relying on UNSCR 1205 of three years ago would be difficult. The situation might of course change.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1593607,00.html

September 17, 2002

UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- In a letter handed over to the United Nations on Monday, Iraq said it would allow the return of U.N. weapons inspectors "without conditions" to "remove any doubts Iraq still possesses weapons of mass destruction."

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/09/16/iraq.un.letter/

Monday, March 17, 2003

(CNN) -- Here is a transcript of President George W. Bush's Monday night televised address to the nation:
snip----
Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. This regime has already used weapons of mass destruction against Iraq's neighbors and against Iraq's people.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/17/sprj.irq.bush.transcript/

[grytpype]

22. WP: Demise of a Hard-Fighting Squad

WP reports a squad of Marines was wiped out in Operation Matador, and their platoon was down by 60%.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/11/AR2005051101737.html

Demise of a Hard-Fighting Squad
Marines Who Survived Ambush Are Killed, Wounded in Blast

By Ellen Knickmeyer
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, May 12, 2005; Page A01

HABAN, Iraq, May 11 -- The explosion enveloped the armored vehicle in flames, sending orange balls of fire bubbling above the trees along the Euphrates River near the Syrian border.

Marines in surrounding vehicles threw open their hatches and took off running across the plowed fields, toward the already blackening metal of the destroyed vehicle. Shouting, they pulled to safety those they could, as the flames ignited the bullets, mortar rounds, flares and grenades inside, rocketing them into the sky and across pastures.

Gunnery Sgt. Chuck Hurley emerged from the smoke and turmoil around the vehicle, circling toward the spot where helicopters would later land to pick up casualties. As he passed one group of Marines, he uttered one sentence: "That was the same squad."

-snip-
In 96 hours of fighting and ambushes in far western Iraq, the squad had ceased to be.

Every member of the squad -- one of three that make up the 1st Platoon of Lima Company, 3rd Battalion, 25th Regiment -- had been killed or wounded, Marines here said. All told, the 1st Platoon -- which Hurley commands -- had sustained 60 percent casualties, demolishing it as a fighting force.

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. Vietnam redux. When "no clear objective achieved" is the norm,

the military will substitute body counts, to show how well they're doing.

How well I remember from '65 -- 'US and ARVN forces numbering 2,000 troops killed 17 Viet Cong fighters, and captured a weapons store of 7 rifles, 4 pistols, a machine gun and several hundred rounds of ammunition'. I remember being struck then how the number of weapons captured never matched up to the number of VC killed or captured and how much force was employed for such little result.

[rocktivity]

38. No, no, it's called a strategic retreat

At least, it's more politically strategic than saying you were roundly defeated.

:headbang:
rocknation

[gordianot]

41. They withdrew. Bet there is hell to pay tonight among General Staff.

The lights will be lit deep in the Pentagon.

[aneerkoinos]

42. My post to the other thread:

BEATEN BACK

If the number of US troops engaged in the operation was the reported 1000, and casualty rate is the usual fatalities x 10, they suffered 15 % casualties just in 5 days, without being able to deliver any serious blows to the opposing forces. Apparently enough to decide to abort the operation and withdraw with tail between legs.

This is a sign that US forces are loosing not only control, but also the overall the war of attrition, when they leave their bases in attempt to establish control...

[gordianot]

55. As a student of Trevor DuPey this is a disaster.

High casualty rates are not that unusual on a Platoon and Company level who suffer terrible loses. This is high intensity combat and a small number of men are experiencing friction, not uncommon in Guerrilla warfare. DuPey's model uses numbers and translates the horrible into formula. What happened is that someone in General command worked out the numbers and found "friction" not to be acceptable.

Military history is a hobby, but it makes me ill that our sons and daughters are caught in this meat grinder. Lives should be more than just numbers on paper.

[aneerkoinos]

61. Now ya talking

The horrible formula, if you have any grog links, I would appreciate.

What I know of military history, is that numbers and equations, thoug important, play minor role to moral. When soldiers really feel they are fighting for a just cause, they are female lions, and when they feel they are demoralized bastards hurting other people and just trying to stay alive, they are not worth much.

All the calculations have a meaning, but none is as important as the overall moral of troops. I'ts not complicated, people don't want to fight for unjust causes anymore.

Level of moral and the meat grinder number tell me, that for all it's technical superiority, US army is loosing this war. And who could be sad about that fact?

[gordianot]

64. I missed spelled DuPuy.

Trevor DuPuy was the man in the Science and art of war. This is one reason why the military is cautious in releasing the numbers of those killed and wounded. Anyone with a calculator can figure out what is happening in terms of human and material cost. He does also factor in morale which factors casulty rates.

Like many who study warfare he was not exactly a hawk and sought to understand the nature of the beast.


see link: http://www.dupuyinstitute.org

[Roland99]

65. Thanks for the link. They even have a forum.

http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi

[Roland99]

43. A succinct comment on this at AmericaBlog

http://www.americablog.org/

Yes. In May of 2005, over two years after Bush declared "Mission Accomplished"....Five months after the elections that were going to change the world....a U.S. Marine squad was wiped out in Iraq.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

45. Ole.

Fucking idiots.

[NNN0LHI]

48. Would it be accurate to say we are getting our asses kicked? n/t

[aneerkoinos]

53. Pretty accurate n/t

[Sabriel]

56. "So THAT'S a Matador!"

And it sounds every bit as successful as the car.

[Darranar]

57. And another large number of people die for no reason at all...

This is a despicable war.

[ckramer]

60. Goooooooood morning Vietnam!

Time for Robin Williams to do a sequel.

The plot goes like this: Robin Williams the Vietnam Vet has been ordered to go back to the war zone in Iraq despite he's already retired from military for 35 years...Why? the war has been getting unpopular and young men in all walks of life refused to join...

[Tinoire]

63. Dreadful. Dreadful! n/t