House approves $1 (presidential) coin

[quaoar]

AP has just moved a corrected version of the story at the link. The corrected version is below. The initial version confused the gold coin with the dollar coin.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/04/27/national/w105055D79.DTL

WASHINGTON (AP) — The House on Wednesday approved a new gold-colored coin bearing the faces of presidents to join the unpopular $1 Sacagawea coin in circulation, hoping a new design will spur use of dollar coins.
By a 422-6 vote, the House approved a plan for the U.S. Mint to begin selling the coins early next year.
The bill also creates what would be the nation’s first investment-grade 24-karat gold bullion coin. Intended for collectors, it would carry portraits of first ladies and a have a face value of $10 but sell for many times that amount at fluctuating prices based on the price of gold.
The new dollar coins would be the same shape, size and makeup of the gold-colored $1 coins now bearing the face of Sacagawea. The coins imprinted with her face would remain in circulation.

[GregW]

1. So help me understand this ...

People don't use the $1 Sacagawea coin because it is 'unpopular' ... yet putting president's faces on them will make them popular?

:wtf:

[quaoar]

7. Here's the scoop

Dollar coins will not be accepted until the government quits printing dollar bills.

Coins save the government money because a coin has an average life of about 30 years while a note lasts about 18 months.

Dollar coins were pushed by the vending industry which does not like having to spend so much on those dollar bill readers that don't work half the time anyway. But then the vending industry didn't convert to accept the coins.

Every other major Western country has a coin for its version of the dollar and no longer uses the paper currency version.

[Inland]

2. Another dollar coin doomed to failure.

Same size, shape and color of the Sac. coin, meaning nobody is going to like them.

The only thing to do is ELIMINATE THE PAPER DOLLAR. Period. Then people will use the coins, or they won't, who cares.

[Mithras61]

9. Does the $1 coin have poor circulation because it's unpopular,

or because it is so unavailable? I have seen so few in open circulation over the years that I had almost forgotten they exist!


Not really, though, because I try to collect them, so I ask for them at the bank and sometimes can even get them. I think that if they were in open circulation people might actually use them.

I also think it would help if the darn things were a different size than quarters, so vending machines could distinguish them from quarters...

[Inland]

18. Yes. It's just unpopular.

The continuing similarity to quarters is one, but in reality, they just need to get rid of dollar bills.

[NYC]

32. Too close to the quarter.

I like the Sacajawea dollars, but they are too similar to quarters in size and shape. Also, coins weigh more than dollars. Better to have mostly paper dollars.

[quaoar]

35. The dollar coins are a different size from the quarter

The dollar is slightly larger than the quarter and is easily distinguishable by vending machines. I still haven't figured out why the vending industry hasn't converted its machines to accept the coins.

[Inland]

51. Easily distinguished by vending machines, but not by me.

Even the color doesn't do it.

[Flammable Materials]

57. What they need to do is phase out the dollar bill.

That's the ONLY way you're going to get dollar coins into circulation.

[TrogL]

20. Canada has $1 (and $2) coins

called the "loonie" and "two-nie". I'm hoping for a five dollar coin with a picture of a fish, called a "fin" or "fin-nie".

[Inland]

22. Yes, but we were discussing real money.

Not funny colored bills with pictures of people nobody knows.

[Lisa]

41. as opposed to monochromatic bills with pictures of people nobody knows!

Sounds like someone got slipped some Canadian Tire money as legal tender once, eh?

[Inland]

50. Not monochromatic, thank you. Tasteful and restrained color.

And at least the Americans recognize who is on their own money. Anyone care to quiz the Canandians?

[quaoar]

43. Canada has a very popular dollar coin

It's called the Loon.

[Inland]

49. Popular.....In Canada, maybe!

Say no more!

[Hand]

62. Yep. And nobody's gonna mistake that for a quarter!

What the HELL is the US treasury's problem? They've made something like four tries at a dollar coin and they still haven't figured out the simple idea that you make the damn thing as UNLIKE any other coin as possible!

I mean,

DUH!

[Art_from_Ark]

68. The problem is, Treasury insisted on reinventing the wheel

In typical American style, they couldn't seem to learn from the successes of other countries, so instead of borrowing ideas from the Loonie dollar and the "round pound", among others, they started from scratch and came up with a truly chintzy coinage metal for the new dollar which corrodes easily (an unintended representation of the value of the dollar?). On top of that, they left the dollar bill in circulation, unlike the Canadians and Brits, who stopped production of their respective corresponding notes to guarantee the success of their coins.

[Danmel]

55. I like the hockey $5 bills

Nice shade of blue, kids playing hockey on the back. When we were in Canada this summer, my son the hockey fan wanted to get a bunch of them and save them. I had to try to explain to him that they were actually, in fact, really and truly MONEY. I let him keep one $5 bill which is pinned to his bulletin board.

[bigworld]

3. good move

... maybe we Americans will finally start using the dollar coin now. I like 'em, but I'm probably in the minority. I like $2 bills, too, but that's another story for another time.

jim

[shoelace414]

4. getting rid of the dollar bill

is the only way people will start using the dollar coin

[Oreo]

5. Reagan? Here it comes....

I bet a shiny $1 coin that they'll push for Reagan.

The article says: "bearing the faces of presidents"

So maybe it'll be Reagan on one side and Haig on the other.

[smirkymonkey]

10. Personally, I don't think a president should be on the coin -

these days it's just going to stir up too much controversy. They should put something neutral on the coin, like a television set on one side and Britney Spears on the other. :sarcasm:

[quaoar]

11. The dollar coins are supposed to...

work like the state quarters. Each year you have four or five different presidents until every president has been on the coin except for whoever is the incumbent at the time.

So, Bush should be the last one on the coins since he'll leave office before they get around to his turn in the rotation. Whoever wins in 2008 will be left off.

[trogdor]

14. The old German DM 2 coin...

...had portraits of its former (post-war) chancellors on them.

[AllegroRondo]

24. I thought only dead people could be put on coins

so they would have to stop at Nixon and Reagan.

[Massacure]

53. They would mint dollar coins with four presidents a year.

It exempts any current sitting presidents during minting, so that means It would start with Washington and end with Clinton.

[quaoar]

63. It would end with Bush

because he'd be out of office (thank God) by the time his turn rolled around.

[Art_from_Ark]

67. And the inscription on the other side will be

"I'm in charge here"

[Robeson]

72. That was my first thought.

[keopeli]

6. We need to move to coins - they are much less expensive to make

In my opinion, we should have $1, $2, $5 coins at least. But they will never work until the govt removes the bills from circulation. This should be a no-brainer, but the US has a conservative mentality.

PS - and get rid of pennies!!!

[quaoar]

8. They'll never get rid of pennies

The copper lobby sees to that.

[Mithras61]

13. I thought pennies were...

anodized aluminum, because the cost of the copper needed to make a pure copper penny cost more than the face value, and people were saving them up and selling them as scrap...

[quaoar]

19. Actually pennies are mostly zinc

http://www.missico.com/personal/tidbits/us_coins.htm

The nickel, dime, quarter, half and dollar are mostly copper.

[central scrutinizer]

21. pre-1982 pennies are copper

after that they switched to zinc with a thin copper coating.

[Art_from_Ark]

69. Technically, from late 1864 to early 1982, cents were made of bronze

which was 95% copper, and 5% zinc which also included a little tin before 1962.

There was one exception, in 1943, when the cents were produced out of a crappy alloy of steel coated with zinc.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

36. I think it's zinc.

[UpInArms]

12. I despise the "Sac" coin

it looks like a brass slug :yuck:

don't want another brass slug coin either -

Susan B Anthony was an insult coin - looked like a quarter.

[trogdor]

16. What would you rather carry around?

Three bucks worth of quarters and dimes, or three Golden Dollars? Which weighs less?

FWIW, I'd acquiesce to having Reagan on the damned thing if it meant acceptance.

[UpInArms]

25. well, I am rather fond of Peace dollars

:hi:

[quaoar]

26. The SBA dollar was a disaster

Because it looked like a quarter.

That's why they changed the color of the Sacagawea dollar and put a smooth edge on it. The quarter has a reeded edge.

Personally I think they should go back to having a silver dollar. From 1965 to 1969 half dollars were made with 40 percent silver. A 40 percent silver dollar coin would be better accepted because people would see it as having intrinsic value. Plus, at just 40 percent there is little chance that the silver content would exceed the melt price for silver.

[UpInArms]

27. agreed - I think the older silver coins were

lovely and wonderful - here's my fave:

[quaoar]

33. I love the peace dollar

Great design.

I like this design from the Standing Liberty quarter. It would make a great dollar coin:

[UpInArms]

39. that is a beautiful coin!

I don't think I've seen one of those - (whining noises in the background)

here's another I like - and then there is the walking liberty (always lovely)

[Thor_MN]

48. A half (or more) exposed breast?? Not a chance

With the nutcases in DC right now?? Put that design in clad and you would have people scribing in nipples...

[quaoar]

64. The exposed breast was the original design

But it caused such an uproar in 1917 that they redesigned it to make Miss Liberty "decent." Standing Liberty Quarters from mid-1917 until 1930 have her covered up.

[rzemanfl]

31. The postal service employee who came up with the idea of

using Susie B's as change in post office vending machines saved the government a bundle. He should get an award for coming up with a "use" for Susie B's. I always just buy more stamps with them because I know otherwise they will just gather dust in a drawer.

[quaoar]

42. I like to spend the SBAs at stores

and watch the expression on the clerk's face as he/she checks out the coin to see what the hell it is.

[rzemanfl]

45. And then has to figure out where the hell it goes in the till. n/t

[GaYellowDawg]

61. LOL...

I went to Subway the other day and had a $5.93 bill. I paid with 2 $2 bills, an Eisenhower dollar, and two fifty-cent pieces. The clerk turned the Eisenhower dollar over and over, was puzzled at the fifty-cent pieces, and dragged out the currency marker for the $2 bills.

[Art_from_Ark]

70. At current silver prices (about $7.20/oz),

the value of the silver in a 40% half exceeds $1.00. There's no way at this stage that the US could mint a circulating precious metal coin with a metal value approacing the face value-- Gresham's Law would kick in, meaning that people would just hoard the coins, like they hoarded the 40% silver halves.

[quaoar]

74. At current silver prices

The value of silver in a 40 percent silver dollar coin would be 82.3 cents.

The dollar coin weighs 0.28593 ounces (8.1 grams). Forty percent of that is 0.114372 ounces. I used the $7.20/ounce figure for the price.

Even at 82 cents worth of silver that is probably too close to the market price of silver for comfort. If silver went to $9 an ounce the amount of silver in a 40 percent dollar coin would exceed $1.

So perhaps the percentage should be reduced to 25 percent. At that amount, the silver in a dollar coin would be worth 51 cents at today's price and would not exceed $1 until the price of silver reached $15 an ounce.

And even if the amount of silver in a coin reaches the market value, it needs to exceed it by a certain percentage to cover the cost of salvaging it.

[Art_from_Ark]

75. I don't disagree with your basic premise, but

If we switched the metal in the dollar coin back to silver (that is, billon), and thus gave it a silver color again, wouldn't that tend to further confuse the great unwashed public?

Also, do you remember when 40% halves were being produced for circulation by the Mint? I remember it well, after I received a "Let's Collect Coins" book, a 1968 Redbook, a copy of COINage, and an old Stacks buy list for Christmas 1967. I soon found out that the 90% silver coins were quickly being withdrawn from circulation (so I went around the neighborhood trying to swap clads for silver coins, but that's another story). I also quickly found out that people were holding on tightly to any 40% halves, because "they're the only thing the Mint is making with silver in it anymore". My friend the coin collector, who lived down the street from me, told me he thought the hoarders were misguided, because at less than $2.00/ounce, the silver in the 40% half wasn't worth anywhere near 50 cents. But people kept saving them anyway-- a textbook example of Gresham's Law taking effect.

[central scrutinizer]

15. ridiculous

By minting these they are simply creating new collectibles that will end up in people's drawers, not in circulation. Canadians have no problem dealing with dollar and two-dollar coins. Of course, they have no trouble dealing with two languages or the metric system either, so they are a clearly superior breed.

[quaoar]

23. That's called seignorage

It's the amount the government "earns" by minting a dollar coin for, say, 2 cents and having the coin stashed in a drawer and thus never redeemed.

At any given moment there are billions of pennies in jars and drawers all over America.

[central scrutinizer]

28. I knew that, but

never really understood how it helped with currency. It makes sense with stamps since you are paying 37 cents for a tiny piece of paper and if you never stick it on a letter, it is almost pure profit. You are taking money you earned and spending it on a stamp. That seems to be different than taking money that you earned and not spending it, just sticking it in a drawer.

[quaoar]

29. Well

When the government mints a coin or prints a bill, it ships them out to the Federal Reserve banks, which sell them to banks, which sell them to you and me. It's like issuing a bond. The government promises to redeem the coin or note for its face value.

If you never redeem it, they keep the money.

And while most coins that are stashed in drawers may eventually be redeemed, at any given time there are billions of coins in drawers or collections.

[rzemanfl]

46. Thanks for adding to my vocabulary if I remember the word. n/t

[Thor_MN]

60. $12.50 for a set of state quarters is easy. $42 of

Presidents and $1 of pretzeldunce is a little harder to take.

[quaoar]

66. $12.50? Ha.

I spend $35 every three months for two uncirculated rolls of every new state quarter -- one from the Denver Mint, the other from Philadelphia. And that doesn't count the State Quarters proof set or the State Quarters silver proof set.

The Mint already sells Sacagawea dollar coins and Kennedy halves to collectors in special rolls at jacked-up prices.

And they have sold so many rolls of those new buffalo nickels that they are on backorder.

[Wickerman]

17. I am very pleased to see the House working together to pass such

vital legislation. Glad that this took up their time rather than ethics issues, election reform, the economy, jobs, healthcare, war, pestilence and famine.

:sarcasm:

[XemaSab]

30. I wanna bring back the mercury dime

A pagan god on one side and a fasces on the other.

Universally unpopular on the Left AND the Right!

[Art_from_Ark]

71. "Mercury" is actually supposed to be a "Winged Liberty Head",

representing "freedom of thought". Of course, resurrecting such a concept would really grind the right's goat.

[wakeme2008]

34. Couple notes:

In Ann Arbor Mi the vending machines did accepts dollar coins and people did use them more.

One hope is people will "collect" the coins like they did with the state quarters.

Finally while they are saying they plan to start with G. Washington and move forward.. I can see the Reagon nuts having G. Washington and Reagon as the first two out of four minted... IMHO......

[quaoar]

37. Reagan was supposed to be on the $10 bill

Whatever happened to that anyway?

[siliconefreak]

38. get rid of the bills

If they ever hope to make the coin popular, why the hell don't they stop circulating $1 bills?! As far as I know, they're still printing $1 bills as well. What sense does that make?

[KittyWampus]

40. NY Subway Machines Give $1 Coins As Change.

very simple and easy, I like them.

[Inland]

52. So do post office vending machines. nt

[Viva_La_Revolution]

58. and the MAX here in Portland...

I still get a kick out of it.

[Festivito]

44. It'll be the size of a QUARTER. So I won't want to use this one either!

Oh boy, another stupifyingly sized dollar coin that will be so easily confused in my pocket with quarters, so that I will avoid using it, so I won't pay a dollar when I need to pay a quarter. Think they'll ever figure out it's the SIZE OF THE STUPID COIN. I don't.

They're stuuuuuuuuuuuupid. All 422 of them.

[newscott]

47. I guess they found a way

to Reagan's puss on some money now didn't they?

[Massacure]

56. Every president will be minted. They will mint four presidents per year.

Starting with Washington and ending with Clinton.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

73. what no "Chimp" dollar?--- Awwww-I'd just love to see his smirk

for the rest of my life!!!

[Deja Q]

54. More taxpayer money well spent.

Not. The original post is an example of government waste.

Not social programs.

[SangamonTaylor]

59. they should make it the same weight and thickness of the pound

i've always enjoyed using the english pound. they feel so heavy...

[mb7588a]

65. Time to abandon currency altogether...

...it's a radical idea, but often floated around crazy cool economic circles.

[jwcomer]

76. need $2, $5, and $10 coins

There is a simple solution to making the coins more popular. Make $5 and $10 coins to go with the $1 coin. This is not silly. $1 coins are frequently given as change at vending machines. So if you buy $4 of stamps at the post office and pay with a $20 bill (the most widely circulated bill, after the dollar), you will get $16 of shiny $1 coins. Which are heavy and the first thing you do is figure out how the hell to get rid of the nuisance. If instead you received a $10, $5, and $1 coin, the nuisance factor is greatly reduced.

Given that most people's experience with the coins is from vending machines, this is a problem which must be solved before anyone will be endeared to $1 coins.

Also the fraction of higher denomination contributes to the annoyance of a particular coin. Dimes and nickles aren't that bad. But pennies are a pain. Quarters are also a pain but not so much so as $1 coins and pennies. So it might also be a good idea to introduce $2 coins.

My suggestion then is that $1, $2, $5, and $10 coins in circulation are necessary to make the $1 coin practical and useful. Which seems a lot of effort just to get people using the $1 coins. Which demands the question, why do we need $1 coins to begin with? The answer is that we would like to remove the penny from circulation. For some reason treasury bureaucrats seem to think that if you drop the penny you need to add the $1 coin. But thats just silly, coin usage isn't a zero sum game.