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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 08:05 AM
Original message
Martin buys NDP support (Canada)
Martin buys NDP support

The deal: Layton wins $4.6-billion in new spending and a rollback of most corporate tax cuts

April 27, 2005


Jack Layton and Paul Martin inked a $4.6-billion deal aimed at salvaging the federal budget yesterday, a move that will force the Conservatives to rely on the separatist Bloc Québécois if the party wishes to bring down the government in the coming weeks.

In exchange for agreeing to the New Democratic Party's demands for more spending on the environment, social housing, foreign aid and tuition reduction, the Liberals have secured a commitment of support on all no-confidence motions until the budget receives royal assent.

...

Mr. Layton said it is clear there will be an election on the corruption issue either next month or in "seven or eight" months, but that he hopes to accomplish something through the budget in the meantime.

"We'll say in an election that we worked for the people while all the other parties were just taking care of their own business to their own advantage. Ordinary people will make their own decisions and I'm quite confident that what we're doing now will help us," he said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050427/ELECTION27/TPNational/Canada

Business attacks Martin-Layton deal

Prime Minister Paul Martin' deal with NDP leader Jack Layton to prop up his minority government is getting a thumbs down from Canada's largest business group.

The Canadian Chamber of Commerce is critical of the arrangement, which cancels tax cuts for large corporations and increases government spending by $4.6 billion.

...

The extra spending—in areas ranging from affordable housing to tuition cuts and environment measures--will come from drawing down the projected federal surplus.

...

Thomas D'Aquino, president of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives, warned that rolling back the corporate tax cuts will discourage the investment needed to create jobs and pay for expensive new programs the government is undertaking.

http://www.ottawabusinessjournal.com/283168016326481.php
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. "Business attacks Martin-Layton deal"
Well that's not fair ! It's the poor peoples who should pay ! And especially the sicks and olds one on welfare,I tell you !
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Mother Jones Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. This was brilliant.

Hope it drums up alot more support for the NDP. Goodness knows, it should.

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kypper Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. They're actually a viable option
Edited on Wed Apr-27-05 11:39 AM by kypper
I don't know how many people say "Well, they're all corrupt... except the NDP, but they'll never get in."

I vote NDP. I refuse to vote for the 'devil I know'. If Harper gets in, I'm moving the hell out of the country. In all honesty, my ideal government is the liberals checked by a strong NDP party. NDP is on its toes regarding scandal and corporate tax cuts; it would keep the Liberals in check while the Liberals would keep the NDP from overspending on social programs. Win-win if we could just get those goddamned rednecks out of parliament.

I had an easy job last election though... Ottawa Centre, Ed Broadbent. You really can't ask for a better candidate for whom to vote.

Edit: The NDP would be much bigger if the BQ weren't there to skew the results. The BQ and the conservatives are two sides of the same separatist coin.
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. But besides the separatism, isn't the BQ social-democratic?
In other words, doesn't in vote along the same lines as the NDP much of the time? I'm not very familiar with Canadian politics, so I may be wrong...
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. yes -- unlike the *P* Q
The Bloc is still decently social democratic, ideologically (although its anti-federalist stance is arguably inconsistent with its democratic socialist stance). Its provincial counterpart, the Parti Québécois, had simply become the new entrenched élite when it was last defeated.

The principled thing for the Bloc to do in this situation, from the perspective that it is anti-federalist, is sit on its hands: abstain from voting on the budget, throw a mass sickie, find something better to do, whatever. If it really doesn't give a shit about what the rest of us get up to, it should put its money where its mouth is and shut up.

Of course, the genuinely principled thing for it to do, from the perspective of what is actually in the interests of everyone it represents and not just those who voted for it, would be to support the NDP in this endeavour. And that would be to vote for the negotiated budget bill.

Ideologically pure as some Bloquistes may be on the question of social democracy, it is difficult to take them as sincere in that respect when they insist on the Quebec sovereignty thing.

There simply is no way that either Quebec or the "Rest of Canada" could survive as a burgeoning social democracy in North America at this point or any time in the near future if separation occurred.

Nonetheless, the image of the unholy alliance of Conservatives and Bloq (talk about yer deals with the devil) is almost worth hoping for. Expose 'em all for unprincipled villains, if that's what they want to be.

Siding with the NDP and supporting the negotiated budget would, in reality, be an utterly appropriate thing for the Bloq to do: to not give a fig about who was governing Canada, and just go along with, or reject, whatever they liked or disliked on an ad hoc basis from one vote in the House to the next. (That is actually how the NDP is framing this initiative as well -- not propping up the govt, but supporting the revised budget.)

That would put them, in theory, at odds with the Conservatives almost all the time, and predictably supporting the same initiatives as the NDP, so things could just trundle along nicely, indefinitely.



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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. what the BQ is saying
http://www.blocquebecois.org/
(with my translation interspersed)

Ottawa, le mardi 26 avril 2005 – « À la lumière des informations qui ont été émises jusqu’à présent, l’entente de principe intervenue entre Paul Martin et Jack Layton pour modifier le mauvais budget présenté en février ne changera en rien les positions du Bloc Québécois », a déclaré le chef du Bloc Québécois, Gilles Duceppe.

Ottawa, Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - "In view of the information that has been made available to date, the agreement in principle between Paul Martin and Jack Layton to amend the bad budget tabled in February will not do anything to change the positions taken by the Bloc Québécois," said Gilles Duceppe, leader of the Bloc Québécois.

Le chef du Bloc Québécois a ajouté que le budget fédéral ignore les grandes priorités du Québec face à la nécessaire réforme de l’assurance-emploi notamment ou encore face au déséquilibre fiscal. Des amendements allant en ce sens ont été réclamés par le Bloc Québécois au moment du budget et rejetés par le gouvernement de Paul Martin.

The leader of the Bloc Québécois added that the federal budget disregards Quebec's major priorities in terms of the need to reform employment insurance, in particular, and also in terms of the fiscal imbalance. Amendments to address those issues were demanded by the Bloc Québécois when the budget was introduced and were rejected by the Paul Martin government.

Gilles Duceppe a par ailleurs rappelé que les ententes intervenues avec Terre-Neuve et le Labrador ainsi que la Nouvelle-Écosse sur la péréquation – ententes qui demeurent dans le projet de loi de mise en œuvre du budget - sont inéquitables pour le Québec.

Gilles Duceppe also pointed out that the agreements made with Newfoundland and Labrador and with Nova Scotia regarding transfer payments, which are still included in the budget implementation bill, are unfair to Quebec.

Le chef du Bloc Québécois a précisé qu’il sera nécessaire d’examiner de près les modifications contenues dans l’entente de principe intervenue entre le premier ministre et le chef du Nouveau Parti Démocratique afin de constater si celles-ci respectent les champs de compétence du Québec.

The leader of the Bloc Québécois said that the amendments set out in the agreement in principle between the Prime Minister and the leader of the New Democratic Party will have to be carefully scrutinized to determine whether they intrude into any areas under Quebec's jurisdiction.

_____________________

I've been a little surprised at the lack of attention in the Cdn media to what the BQ is likely to do.

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. I do hope some of our US cousins are at least reading
This is an interesting and important development on a couple of fronts, and so far I'm rather surprised at the apparent lack of interest on our cousins' part. I suspect it's a little obscure and not easy to see the meaning and importance of. It's really worth them taking a look at, though.

First, the obvious: if the deal works, there will be no federal election in Canada in the immediate future, and thus no risk of the right-wing Conservative Party gaining power.

For USAmericans who prefer not to have fans of the Bush Republicans running Canada, this is good news.

Second, the more intellectually fascinating: deal-making for the benefit of the country and people.

The Cdn Parliament is not like the US Congress, where deal-making is a common modus operandi. Party discipline is strong in Canada; government MPs who broke party discipline to vote against a government initiative, or opposition MPs who broke discipline to vote with a government initiative that their party opposed, would find themselves sitting in a corner, and not being given their party's support in the next election.

("Free votes" are allowed as a rare exception, for matters on which there is no formal party policy and on which the party's MPs and members and constituents are not in agreement; they tend to be on matters of "conscience", which women's and GLBT rights too often seem to be regarded as, for instance.)

And this deal is not a utilitarian one (on the NDP side), it is a principled deal. It has two goals that are both good for Canada, not just the party or its individual MPs in their own constituencies:

- ensure that Canada has a functioning government that gets going on the real business of governing;

- ensure that the governing that gets done is in the interests of the country and the people, not of the Liberal Party and its backers.

There are always risks for the NDP when it "props up" a Liberal government, in terms of its prospects in the next election, whenever it comes:

- the NDP loses credit for initiatives that are popular with the electorate for which it was the necessary motor, but that have the Liberals' name on them;

- the NDP is tarred by its association with a government that is unpopular in many people's minds.

The reverse of the second point also happens: if and when the NDP votes with the rest of the opposition to bring the govt down and force an election, it is blamed for causing the fall of a govt that some people liked, and forcing an election that some people didn't want.

Holding the balance of power can make the party the focal point for just about everybody's negative opinions and feelings about just about anything that happens.

In this case, there was a window of opportunity. In their first budget after the election, the Liberals had proposed a major initiative -- big tax cuts for corporations -- that they had never so much as whispered to the electorate during the election campaign. In the campaign, they focused on their commitment to Canada's social programs.

So the NDP was able to offer something as close to a win-win deal as possible. The Liberals were not required to dance to the NDP's tune -- they were simply required to dance to the tune that they themselves had played to the voters last summer. And of course they get to stay in power.

I'm seeing this as the new role of the "vanguard" party in a modern liberal democracy. The NDP is not going to form a federal government in Canada in this decade, or even the next. But by taking every opportunity that arises, it can do things to shape Canadian society in ways that are not readily reversible: it helps to create a "new norm".

One way this has happened in the past is through things done by NDP governments of provinces: universal health care originated in Saskatchewan under the NDP, and soon became seen as a norm that should be adopted by the country. The Parti Québécois (back in its progressive days) did this with the universal child care program: it became a functioning model for what the country should have. (This is a plan of action that people in US blue states might be well advised to pursue more actively!)

The other way is by what is being done now: make support for the govt conditional on passing policies supported by the NDP and by the electorate overall.


The CBC's summary of minority govts in the past:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdngovernment/minoritygovernment.html
Interestingly, PM Diefenbaker's Progressive Conservative govt fell in 1963 because:

The government had become embroiled in the debate over whether or not Canada should have nuclear weapons as part of a continental defence shield (he was against the idea).
... the Conservatives opposed a missile defence shield. ;)

Here's an assessment of the NDP's achievements in past minority govts:
http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/democracy/minority/accomplished.html

In Canada, minority governments have frequently sought the support of left-wing parties such as the NDP to remain in power. The smaller party has normally made their support conditional on the government enacting socially progressive legislation:

- In 1925, Mackenzie King’s minority Liberal government agreed to implement old age pension legislation to keep the support of Progressive and Labour party MPs. The legislation was implemented in 1927.

- Throughout the 1960s and early 1970s, both the Pearson and Trudeau Liberal minority governments enacted several pieces of legislation to maintain NDP support.

- In the 1960s, Pearson brought in universal healthcare and government loans for university students, and the Canada Assistance Plan (CAP).

- Between 1972 and 1974, Trudeau introduced a program of economic nationalism that included the creation of PetroCanada. In addition, old age pensions were indexed to the cost of living.

If the deal works, USAmericans might actually get to see Canada doing some of the things they think Canada does!
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/04/26/martin-layton050426.html

The proposed deal includes:

$1.6 billion for affordable housing construction, including aboriginal housing.

$1.5-billion increase in transfers to provinces for tuition reduction and better training through EI {(un)employment insurance}.

$900 million for environment with one more cent of the federal gas tax going to public transit.

$500 million for foreign aid to bring Canada in line with promise of 0.7 per cent of GDP.

$100 million for pension protection fund for workers.

Pretty good deal.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I'm very glad that this is happening
primarily for what it means for the gay marriage bill

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. The Globe calls it buying support.
Coalition style politics is the norm in a lot of countries (a lot of corporate boardrooms too), so the Globe is being silly in pretending it is somehow undignified. It is about time that NDP and progressive Liberals got some recognition of their point of view in the budget, even if it is pretty small beer really.

This puts the Conservative Party and Steven Harper in an interesting dilemma. If they insist on bringing down the minority parliament next month, it will be with the assistance of a formally separatist party (BQ) and in the interests of big business tax favours. Not very good optics, really, no matter how much they will talk about the Gomery inquiry and allegations of financial corruption. It plays directly into most voters perceptions of them as weak on national unity and strong on big business and the financial interests of the upper class.

I think it plays well for the NDP as well. They get at least a bit of their agenda implemented, and appear to be a party above the fray of partisan politics, interested in ensuring that the people's business goes forward without the need for a second election in a span of only twelve months. Their main problem is that by supporting the Liberals they may eventually ensure another Liberal majority, if the dust of the Gomery inquiry settles that way.
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Ibbitson is just foaming at the mouth over this!
He's been ranting away on the front page for days now.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. His rants are predictable.
It takes the most enormous effort of my will to bring me to skim them, which is all I can usually do. Layton must have hit on an excellent stratagem if Ibbitson is having fits over it.
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. Now if they can get the BQ onboard...
If they can get the BQ onboard (tuition, housing, environment!)Layton and Martin will actually have a deal.

Looks like the 'outraged' public thing has subsided anyhow--I guess most people figured that nothing acutally changed since the election anyhow, save for the 'shrillness' of the hapless Tories and National Post editorialists...

By May 19, even the Tories will look for a way to climb down--
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. Harper calls it a "deal with the devil"
Edited on Wed Apr-27-05 01:42 PM by Minstrel Boy
"Deal with the devil"? :shrug:

Harper vows to take down Liberals

Conservative Party Leader Stephen Harper vowed Wednesday to topple the fragile Liberal government "at the earliest opportunity" as he fumed about Paul Martin's "deal with the devil" -- a $4.6-billion budget agreement with the New Democrats.

Harper called Martin's willingness to accede to the NDP's demand to remove billions of dollars in corporate tax cuts from the federal budget the "most disgraceful thing" he'd ever seen as he tried to pin the blame for a snap election on the Liberal-NDP alliance.

...

At an earlier stop in Ridgetown, Ont., Harper said the "fiscally irresponsible" deal to delay corporate tax cuts and siphon the $4.6-billion proceeds into social programs over the next two years was a sign the government is "seriously off the rails."

Harper said it would be impossible for Conservatives to support the budget, which favours NDP priorities and props up a government teetering on the brink of collapse from explosive allegations emerging daily from the Gomery inquiry into the federal sponsorship scandal.

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=c194e2aa-5c08-4540-84f7-e43fc3be9ad4
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. dupe n/t
Edited on Wed Apr-27-05 01:42 PM by Minstrel Boy
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