Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Britain the land of least opportunity

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
Boomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 09:56 AM
Original message
Britain the land of least opportunity
Edited on Mon Apr-25-05 10:02 AM by Boomer
They hate us for our (second-rate) freedoms...

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/story.jsp?story=632750

Britain the land of least opportunity
By Jonathan Brown
25 April 2005

Britain is ranked bottom of an international league table of social mobility, scotching claims that successive governments have created a more classless society.

A study of eight industrialised nations, produced by the London School of Economics on behalf of the educational charity the Sutton Trust, shows that Britons find it harder than other nationalities to earn more money and get better jobs than their parents.

<snip>

They found Norway, followed by Denmark, Sweden and Finland to be the most socially mobile. They were followed by Germany, Canada, Britain and the US.

<snip>

Social mobility by nation

1st Norway
2nd = Denmark
Sweden
Canada
5th Finland
6th Germany
7th UK
8th US

How the eight countries in the study ranked
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. wow...brits and u.s. below...
all those "communist" countries. whoda thunk socialism is good for the masses?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. What is most interesting is that the US is 8th on that list, ranking
even below the UK. I thought we were supposed to be the land of opportunity? :eyes:

The Scandinavian countries also have the highest standard of living of all the world's nations and they are committed to helping their poorest and most destitute. Hmmmm.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. the oligarch class war is most advanced in the US and UK
we are getting our asses kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pie Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I am very very tired of getting my ass kicked!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
carnie_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. So much for the US
being the land of opportunity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
prairierose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. Isn't mythology amazing....
people still believe this is the land of opportunity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. God, even Canada's society is more mobile than the US.
Remember the good old days. When a poor boy like Lincoln could become President and have a poor tailor as his Vice President. Never again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. For every one Horatio Alger...
... there are a hundred Candides. And any boy can grow up to be President... if his last name is Bush.... *sigh*
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. After eight years of Blair's Labour government
Edited on Mon Apr-25-05 05:19 PM by fedsron2us
the poor actually have less chance of improving their social and economic status than when Margaret Thatcher was Education Secretary in in the 1970's. What a legacy Tony, you useless crock of shit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. That is utter bullshit. Since '96 the bottom two quintiles have seen the
greatest increase in income in the UK, unemployment is at 20 or 30 year lows, and wages are up.

The Labour governmenet exists to address the problems identified in this study.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why do they say Britain is at the bottom, when it is the U.S.?
Statistics Canada had an analysis recently posted on their website along these lines. This seems to be a similar conclusion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yes, the headline is clearly a lie.
Social mobility by nation

1st Norway
2nd = Denmark
Sweden
Canada
5th Finland
6th Germany
7th UK
8th US

How the eight countries in the study ranked
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Because they're trying to hurt Labour just before the election.
Another thing the article should do is compare the UK pre '96 to today.

With lower unemployment, higher wages, and with the bottom two quintiles seeing the greatest increase in income since Blair became PM, the UK is definitely getting better since they dumped the tories, whose political mission was to perpetuate social immobility and preserve guaranteed wealth for the wealthy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-05 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. that's a familiar line-up
It looks very much like the rankings in recent United Nations human development best-place-to-live lists. (Canada slipped from its repeated #1 position a few years ago, and the Scandinavian countries moved up.)

It's also very similar to what you'd get if you ranked the countries by equality of income distribution. The "GINI index" is a measurement of how evenly income is distributed in a country -- i.e. of how concentrated it is in a few hands; the higher the score, the more concentrated income is in the higher-earning echelons, and the less there is left to go around in the lower-earning echelons.

The US has long had the highest score of any of those countries -- the most unequal income distribution -- with the UK in rather distant second place, followed by the others.

The inequality of income distribution has been growing in the US for years -- income is being redistributed upward, into the hands of the fewer and richer. This is true in Canada as well, but to a much smaller extent; Canada still ranks behind most European countries, but well ahead of the US, for equality of income distribution.

Equality of income distribution, rather than wealth itself, seems to be a good indicator of social health. Studies have indicated that murder rates, for instance, are more correlated to how income is distributed within a society than to what the average income in the society is. (Average income is a particularly meaningless statistic, by the way, when there is serious income inequality. There may be 10 people earning less than the average for every person earning more than the average.)

I'm struck by that "even Canada" remark in one of the posts. What, Canada's some backwater of rigid class division and impermeable class barriers? Uh, no. (I dunno, maybe it's just someplace with no "up" to bother being mobile to ...)

You take a society where basic health care is provided to everyone, public education is funded decently, access to higher education is not dependent on wealth (something that is becoming problematic here, but not nearly to the extent seen in the US), measures are taken to remove disincentives to women's participation in the work force (extended paid maternity leave), anti-discrimination and active measures to enhance minority participation are taken seriously, and at least a basic social safety net is provided for people who unemployed, disabled, old and the like (e.g. there is decent assisted housing, even if not enough, in Canada) ... and you're going to have a good start on the conditions that are needed for social mobility: health, education, a common basic set of resources and opportunities.

One thing I would point out is that the populations of the countries that rank highest on that list are generally much more homogeneous than, say, Canada. With 2 in 10 Canadians born outside Canada, some of the barriers they face will be artificial (bigotry, non-recognition of qualifications), but some barriers to mobility -- like not knowing the language -- can't be laid at the society's doorstep. (This was not a factor in the study itself, which seems to have considered only the native-born; but the second generation doesn't always completely overcome the disadvantages their parents were under.)

At bottom, the US, more than any comparable society, is increasingly a country of haves and have nots, and a country in which the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. That is an excellent post.
You made a lot of important points succinctly and well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. The UK is better now than it was before 1996, and part of the reason it
ranks 7 out of the 8 countries they chose to measure is because of what the Tories did to that country.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC