Record Number of Prisoners in Iraq

[chlamor]

Record number of prisoners
By Sammy Ketz
11apr05

UNITED States and Iraqi forces are holding a record 17,000 men and women - most without being formally charged - and with those in Iraqi-controlled jails living often in deplorable conditions, said US and Iraqi officials.

About two-thirds are locked up as “security detainees” without any formal charges in US-run facilities, Lieutenant Colonel Guy Rudisill, the US military spokesman for Iraqi detention operations, told AFP.

The rest are incarcerated in Iraqi-run jails in conditions that fall well below any international standard and are in dire need of reform, said Bakhtiar Amin, Iraq's outgoing human rights minister.

“None of the Iraqi detention centres meet international standards for cleanliness, food and the treatment of prisoners.

http://www.themercury.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,12817613%255E401,00.html

[Lerkfish]

1. just to add a little perspective...

that's 5 times the number of people killed on 9/11

(yes, I KNOW there's no connection, but you know and I know the military keeps implying there is, so the comparison is valid)

[mbperrin]

2. Coming soon to a neighborhood near you!

Yeah, you trouble-makin' complainers, I'm talkin'about you!

and me..........

[Canuckistanian]

3. Does that even surpass Saddam's record?

If true, then claims of Saddam's "political prisoners" and "torture chambers" seems a little hollow, doesn't it?

[LynnTheDem]

22. Well let's compare...

Under Hussein, Abu Ghraib reportedly held as many as 15,000 prisoners.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2004/040505-iraq-prisons.htm

Yep. BUSH surpasses Hussein's record.

USA; 100,000+ Iraqi civilians killed in 2 years.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1338749,00.html

Torture. Rape. Murder. Illegal detainment. Disappearances. Detainment without charges. Kidnapping. All under BUSH.

Summary execution care of bush's hand-picked former car-bomber terrorist "prime minister" ALLAWI;
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/16/1089694568757.html?oneclick=true

But Hussein was "worse than Hitler", and the Kurds were the innocents requiring our rescue:

Iraq & Kurdistan, Human Rights Watch report, 1999:

The Iraqi government continued to engage in a broad array of human rights violations, including mass arrests, torture, summary executions, “disappearances,” and forced relocations.

In Iraqi Kurdistan armed Kurdish political parties and Iraqi security forces were also responsible for a wide variety of human rights violations, including the arbitrary detention of suspected political opponents, torture, and extrajudicial executions.
http://hrw.org/worldreport99/mideast/iraq.html

Hussein:

Human Rights Watch; "No details were available about the fate of the approximately 16,500 people reported “disappeared” in the last ten years, mainly ethnic Kurds and Shi’as but including the approximately 600 Kuwaitis reported to have been in Iraqi custody but unaccounted for since the 1991 Gulf War."
http://hrw.org/worldreport99/mideast/iraq.html

Bush's own website agrees with the 16,500;

"In 1999, the UN Special Rapporteur stated that Iraq remains the country with the highest number of disappearances known to the UN: over 16,000."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect4.html

Human Rights Watch:

"The Bush administration cannot justify the war in Iraq as a humanitarian intervention, and neither can Tony Blair," executive director Kenneth Roth said.

The war in Iraq cannot be justified as an intervention in defense of human rights even though it ended a brutal regime, Human Rights Watch said Monday, dismissing one of the Bush administration's main arguments for the invasion.

While Saddam Hussein had an atrocious human rights record, his worst actions occurred LONG BEFORE THE WAR and there was NO ONGOING or imminent mass killing in Iraq when the conflict began, the advocacy group said in its annual report.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0126-07.htm

Saddam wouldn't let human rights groups into all prisons? Neither will bush;

Rights Groups Demand That US Open All Detention Facilities
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0510-01.htm

Officer Says Army Tried to Curb Red Cross Visits to Prison in Iraq
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0519-04.htm

War Crimes: Gen. Sanchez Hid Prisoner From Red Cross
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/061404B.shtml

Saddam arbitrarily arrested innocent Iraqis? Tortured innocent Iraqis? So does bush;

70% to 90% of Iraq Prisoners 'Arrested by Mistake'
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0511-04.htm

Detainees Suffer Terror at US Hands; Red Cross Says Torture Part of Deliberate Tactic
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

Saddam arrested and tortured children? So does bush;

Military Analyst Describes Abuse of 16-Year-Old in Iraq Prison
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0520-07.htm

Iraq's child prisoners
http://www.sundayherald.com/43796

[struggle4progress]

4. "Yes. We really plan to OWN you." --- The Ownership Society. eom

[Disturbed]

5. Over the years that the U.S. Occupation have..

any "detainees" ever had a trial?

[RedSock]

6. 17,000 people in jail -- most not charged with anything

... now THAT'S freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CoffeeCat]

8. jinx, RedSock! (nt)

[frictionlessO]

15. it seems thoroughly un-democratic to not notify them of any and all

charges for which they are being held.

All one has too think about is the fact that their prison (detention center) system makes 70's Attica look like Pebble Beach.

How many are really insurgents? A tenth perhaps?? How many are really terrorists (beyond being an "insurgent") out of that number? It doesn't matter because there is no way you're ever going to convince me that such a number of people was worth imprisoning the vast number of innocents under those kinds of conditions!!!

I defy any American to live under such circumstances for any serious duration and not call it torture if they were to get out.

[CoffeeCat]

7. Hmmmm...

...Detaining 17,000 Iraqis in deplorable, inhumane conditions--and killing 100,000+ ---kinda blows that whole "We're coming over there to give ya freedom!" thing, now doesn't it?

[jbnow]

26. Maybe bush thinks it is freedom

because he heard "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"

And he did a good job at leaving them nothing. For many no jobs, gas, power, water, homes, town, loved ones, pride, hope...sometimes no life.

It is all such a shame...and him getting four more years must make them blame us all the more.

[leftofcool]

9. "Freedom is on the March"..................eom

[struggle4progress]

27. "Freedom is doing the perp walk." eom

[tabasco]

10. "We're here from the USA to help you."

Add this to the list of greatest lies.

[Krupskaya]

11. "17,000 men and women"....AND CHILDREN.

Don't forget that. There were kids in Abu Gharib.

[UpInArms]

13. are you sure that the word is "were"? ............. eom

[frictionlessO]

16. wasn't there some recent article claiming as such?? n/t

[UpInArms]

17. it's dated, but I don't ever get the warm fuzzies

when our military spokesperson attempts to assure me of anything.

01 August 2004

http://www.sundayherald.com/43796

01 August 2004

A Sunday Herald investigation has discovered that coalition forces are holding more than 100 children in jails such as Abu Ghraib. Witnesses claim that the detainees – some as young as 10 – are also being subjected to rape and torture
By Neil Mackay

It was early last October that Kasim Mehaddi Hilas says he witnessed the rape of a boy prisoner aged about 15 in the notorious Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. “The kid was hurting very bad and they covered all the doors with sheets,” he said in a statement given to investigators probing prisoner abuse in Abu Ghraib. “Then, when I heard the screaming I climbed the door … and I saw who was wearing a military uniform.” Hilas, who was himself threatened with being sexually assaulted in Abu Graib, then describes in horrific detail how the soldier raped “the little kid”.

In another witness statement, passed to the Sunday Herald, former prisoner Thaar Salman Dawod said: “ two boys naked and they were cuffed together face to face and was beating them and a group of guards were watching and taking pictures and there was three female soldiers laughing at the prisoners. The prisoners, two of them, were young.”

It’s not certain exactly how many children are being held by coalition forces in Iraq, but a Sunday Herald investigation suggests there are up to 107. Their names are not known, nor is where they are being kept, how long they will be held or what has happened to them during their detention.

Proof of the widespread arrest and detention of children in Iraq by US and UK forces is contained in an internal Unicef report written in June. The report has – surprisingly – not been made public. A key section on child protection, headed “Children in Conflict with the Law or with Coalition Forces”, reads: “In July and August 2003, several meetings were conducted with CPA (Coalition Provisional Authority) … and Ministry of Justice to address issues related to juvenile justice and the situation of children detained by the coalition forces … Unicef is working through a variety of channels to try and learn more about conditions for children who are imprisoned or detained, and to ensure that their rights are respected.”

...more...

Thursday, March 10, 2005 Posted: 10:30 PM EST (0330 GMT)

Documents offer details about Abu Ghraib's children
ACLU releases Army transcripts, records

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Children held by the U.S. Army at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison included one boy who appeared to be only about 8 years old, the former commander of the prison told investigators, according to a transcript.

"He looked like he was eight years old. He told me he was almost 12," Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski told officials investigating prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib. "He told me his brother was there with him, but he really wanted to see his mother, could he please call his mother. He was crying."

Karpinski's statement is among hundreds of pages of Army records about Abu Ghraib the American Civil Liberties Union released Thursday. The ACLU got the documents under a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit seeking records about abuse of detainees in Iraq.

Karpinski did not say what happened to the boy in her interview with Maj. Gen. George Fay. Military officials have previously acknowledged that some juvenile prisoners had been held at Abu Ghraib, a massive prison built by Saddam Hussein's government outside Baghdad.

...more...

Are there still children being held? I don't know the answer :(

[Rex]

12. There's money to be made in building jails and security forces!

nt

[frictionlessO]

14. anyone else think this is vote worthy?

I ask because this is a very bad thing as far as I can tell. These aren't terrorists... not even close and many of them aren't even criminals. Something many of us on the left have been saying on the left for a long while.

Here is as much a man as any that would know the truth (though I don't know if he has ulterior motives). So this to me has the creds to be used statistically in Iraq debates from family and friends through media and government.

or am I just dreaming intensely????

[lovuian]

18. They call it a prison state!!!

Thats IRAQ!!!

[chlamor]

19. 'One Huge US Jail'

'One huge US jail'

Afghanistan is the hub of a global network of detention centres, the frontline in America's 'war on terror', where arrest can be random and allegations of torture commonplace. Adrian Levy and Cathy Scott-Clark investigate on the ground and talk to former prisoners

Saturday March 19, 2005
The Guardian

Kabul was a grim, monastic place in the days of the Taliban; today it's a chaotic gathering point for every kind of prospector and carpetbagger. Foreign bidders vying for billions of dollars of telecoms, irrigation and construction contracts have sparked a property boom that has forced up rental prices in the Afghan capital to match those in London, Tokyo and Manhattan. Four years ago, the Ministry of Vice and Virtue in Kabul was a tool of the Taliban inquisition, a drab office building where heretics were locked up for such crimes as humming a popular love song. Now it's owned by an American entrepreneur who hopes its bitter associations won't scare away his new friends.

Outside Kabul, Afghanistan is bleaker, its provinces more inaccessible and lawless, than it was under the Taliban. If anyone leaves town, they do so in convoys. Afghanistan is a place where it is easy for people to disappear and perilous for anyone to investigate their fate. Even a seasoned aid agency such as Médécins Sans Frontières was forced to quit after five staff members were murdered last June. Only the 17,000-strong US forces, with their all-terrain Humvees and Apache attack helicopters, have the run of the land, and they have used the haze of fear and uncertainty that has engulfed the country to advance a draconian phase in the war against terror. Afghanistan has become the new Guantánamo Bay.

Washington likes to hold up Afghanistan as an exemplar of how a rogue regime can be replaced by democracy. Meanwhile, human-rights activists and Afghan politicians have accused the US military of placing Afghanistan at the hub of a global system of detention centres where prisoners are held incommunicado and allegedly subjected to torture. The secrecy surrounding them prevents any real independent investigation of the allegations. "The detention system in Afghanistan exists entirely outside international norms, but it is only part of a far larger and more sinister jail network that we are only now beginning to understand," Michael Posner, director of the US legal watchdog Human Rights First, told us.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1439904,00.html

[Theduckno2]

20. I've got a question!

Does anyone know how many, if any, of the 17,000 prisoners are foreign nationals? I am always hearing about all these outsiders causing trouble in Iraq, though I believe that the resistance is mostly Iraqis, or are they dealt with separately?

[LynnTheDem]

23. 353 are non-Iraqi...and many of those may have lived in Iraq

for years. Just as many people living in America aren't Americans.

Insurgents Are Mostly Iraqis, US Military Says
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0928-21.htm

American commanders said their best estimates of the proportion of foreigners among their enemy was about 5 percent.
http://middleeastinfo.org/article4833.html

US, Britain holding 10,000 prisoners in Iraq

350 foreigners are among about 10,000 detainees being held in US-run prisons in Iraq, Iraq's Human Rights Minister Bakhtiar Amin Over says.

"US forces told us on December 23 that they are holding 353 foreign terrorists,"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200412/s1273053.htm

My dinky little Texas town has more "foreigners" than that.

[Theduckno2]

24. Thanks a lot, pretty much what I thought.

Well, it looks as though I'll be off to those links to do some reading. My little Michigan town probably has more "foreigners" than that too! Thanks again.

[LynnTheDem]

25. You're welcome

And welcome to DU. :hi:

[LynnTheDem]

21. WORSE than Saddam.

Well done, bush.

[0007]

28. Wow! I think we'll be encouraging more Iraqis to becoming freedom fighter

[bvar22]

29. Joyful Iraqis

Joyful Iraqis celebrating their freedom
under the watchful eye of their benevolent liberators!



Whoops, wrong picture.
My bad.