Obese Shoppers Treated More Rudely, Study Shows

[DoveTurnedHawk]

Sales clerks tend to discriminate against shoppers who are obese, according to new study findings.

Investigators found that when women wore a prosthetic suit designed to make them look obese, they were treated more rudely, and received fewer smiles and less eye contact from sales clerks at a Houston, Texas, shopping mall than when they shopped without the fat suit.

Sales clerks -- almost three-quarters of whom were women -- also tended to end interactions with obese shoppers more quickly, and use a negative tone with them.

Obese shoppers tended to experience more discrimination when they were casually dressed than when they were in professional attire.

However, when the apparently overweight shoppers sipped a diet soda and said they were trying to lose weight, they were treated just as nicely as when they shopped without their artificial bulk.

<...>

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050406/hl_nm/obese_shoppers_dc

DTH

[Sandpiper]

1. Wow! Newsflash! Skinny people treated better than fat people.

Next thing they're going to tell me is beautiful people get treated better than ugly people.

[rzemanfl]

3. Or that rich people live longer than poor people. Or even that

tall people can reach things that short people can't.

[KansDem]

7. Not too far from the truth!

Hey, Gorgeous, Here's a Raise!
As for you fatties, we're cutting your salaries.
By Steven E. Landsburg
Posted Monday, July 9, 2001, at 6:00 PM PT

http://slate.msn.com/id/111445/

As beauty is rewarded, so ugliness is penalized. Ugly women earn about 5 percent less than other women, and ugly men earn about 10 percent less than other men. That's right; the market punishes men more than women for being unattractive. Moreover, men's looks haunt them at every stage of their careers: Better-looking men get more job offers, higher starting salaries, and better raises. For women, good looks will get you better raises but usually not better job offers or starting salaries. (A note on Hamermesh and Biddle's methodology: Beauty was assessed by panels of people who judged photographs of the study's subjects.)

But while men suffer more for being ugly, women—and specifically white women—suffer more for being fat. In a paper from last year, Professor John Cawley found that an extra 65 pounds typically cost a white woman 7 percent of her wages. To put this another way, if you're a seriously overweight white woman, losing 65 pounds is likely to be as lucrative as an extra year of college or three extra years of work experience. For men and for black women, weight has no effect on wages. (The people in Cawley's study self-reported their weights.)
more...

[Digit]

40. I don't believe that EVERYONE discriminates against other than "perfect"

Most of my sales experience was in real estate, but I also did a stint part-time at a big box store when sales were lagging.
In all my years in sales, I would approach people who did not look like they could afford to buy, overweight people, people from other cultures, the handicapped, elderly, etc....it did not matter to me.
I just liked dealing with people. All people.
These turned out to be some of my BEST customers because I treated them like the REAL people they were. If I had to use some sort of sign language to communicate, I did it.
Okay, I will say that sometimes an overweight person would come in and try to almost be invisible. I would draw them out, and look them in the eye...I would find out what they needed. Some seemed so wounded, but would see I really was there to help. Once drawn out, we had a fun time picking out what they needed.
I can recall a young couple who were renting, and needed a window treatment to block out the light. Money was an issue. I showed them a black pleated temporary shade which blocked out the light and could be cut to fit the window for under $5.00. I swear they almost kissed my feet.
I had alot of referrals in real estate due to my treatment of my clients. They would send me pictures of their newborns and such.
In the big box store, people would just stop by to wave and say hello to me. I had some nice letters sent to corporate, too.

Why don't people realize that we are all created equal?

[AnneD]

70. Because so many sales people DO discriminate...

the good ones stand out because they DON'T discriminate. When I did sales, I took the don't judge a book attitude and always exceeded sales projections. I had referrals AND repeat business. The same should go for employment too.

[inflection]

29. yeah this doesn't qualify for news

[Born Free]

85. let me guess.......

you are not obese....


kinda like a white guy telling a black he knows what it is like being black

[Sandpiper]

86. Actually I am

At least according to my BMI.

[Kerrytravelers]

2. I'm not surprised.

Obesity is the unspoken and unacknowledged bias in this country that is quite acceptable. In movies, on tv, the "fat girl" is always the laughing stock while the skinny girl is the heroine. WHen a girl is "made over" for a guy (in a film) she always appears thinner and thereforeprettier and more worthy.









Ok, before the flames start, no, I am not heavy with a complex.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

5. I Was Surprised That Obese People Who Said They Were Dieting

Were treated better. I wonder what the deal is with that?

DTH

[Atman]

16. Attitude. They feel better about themselves

so a) they carry themselves differently and b) I think a lot of it is mental. You have to be committed to it to actually lose weight. Once you're committed, your whole attitude changes. Whether or not people actually sense that, well, I doubt it. More likely, you're more positive attitude is translating into better self esteem, and you're less likely to think people are "looking down on you" when they aren't necessarily.

[republicansareevil]

24. no, no.

These were actors saying a line... or not saying it depending on what instructions they were given by the psychologists running the experiment.

[Straight Shooter]

19. "what the deal is with that?"

I think it's because many people are conditioned to think that people are obese because they're lazy or they eat way too much, and so when someone says they're dieting, the other person thinks, okay, they're trying to do something about it.

My mother always made fun of fat people. I have always gravitated to them. Go figure.

[RobinA]

76. This Study

seems like bunk to me. Not to say that obese people don't meet up with discrimination, but I was a sales clerk for years, and to tell you the truth, after a couple months, one customer looks just like every other customer. You see so many people in a day, a week, a month, that noticing their personal characteristics ceases to be of much interest after a while.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

77. I Posited Below

That maybe a lot of it was subconscious? I don't know. The findings of this study do not surprise me at all, though.

DTH

[RobinA]

78. I Dunno

Holding a diet soda? Telling the clerk they are dieting? Where are these stores where everyone is so chatty? Just sounds funky. Sales clerks see a bizarre mix of people. Obese? Get in line to be noticed by the sales staff, I got a guy right here returning a shirt that has left over BO on it so bad I don't want to get near it, let alone touch it. After the guy and his shirt, I have a girl at the other counter crying and trying to return a shirt that was sold two years ago that she found in her brother's drawer with tags still on it when they were cleaning out his drawers after he committed suicide. Sorry, obese just doesn't cut it.

[lenidog]

13. You wont get flamed from me

Because you are absolutely right. I have seen it first hand when out and about with my little sister who is overweight.

[shanti]

36. oh i totally agree with you

the last acceptable bias. just listen to the way many people spit out the word "fat" in such a pejorative way. when did this start anyway?

[WindRavenX]

4. ...why,,,

...would anyone treat an obese person more rudely? :shrug:

[pokercat999]

9. Because they are bigoted assholes that don't

know any better or not.

[lenidog]

11. Because they are seen as less than a human being

They are stupid, sloppy and totally to blame for their weight problems and this stereotype is reinforced along with others by the media. Being overweight is the last (how show I say this?) sanctioned prejudice in this country. Its alright to make fun of those who are overweight.

[nonconformist]

80. I sort of agree, but in most circles it IS taboo

Since most people ARE overweight.

A totally sanctioned prejudice that you will see many participate in but few - if any - detractors on is cutting down very thin people and calling them anorexic. Hell, there's some doing it in this thread.

[Atman]

12. I lost 55 pounds...EVERYONE treats me differently

Everybody. From getting smiled at by store clerks, to being asked if I need assistance, even right down to being flirted with and hit on. By men as well as women. I didn't expect this side benefit in a million years. Dammit, people, if you're sitting on a lard ass typing into DU, get up and run around the block, toss out your Doritos. Everything about your life will change, and it will all start with the attitude you have about yourself. I promise!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

25. Except, I'm not sure I want to have anything to do with people

who are so rude and shallow.

I've been overweight and underweight. I don't know if I'd call it anorexic, but I wasn't eating, so I guess at 5'3" and 95 lbs I was pretty close to it. When I was too thin, I heard ooos and ahhhs about how great I looked, and guys wanted to date me, and acquaintances who'd never said boo to me before wanted to know how I'd lost so much weight. When I told them all I had to do was stop eating, they looked at me like I had to be joking.

When I gained twice the weight I'd lost, I found myself seated in the violin section where I wouldn't be seen. When I lost the weight again (more sensibly this time), I was back in view of the public, and asked to be concertmaster on a regular basis.

I've had single "friends" talk with me about their love lives when I was overweight, telling me they like So-and-So, "...but S/He's fat."
Makes me wonder what happens when the person they marry gains weight...

[progressivebydesign]

44. Congrats on the weight loss Atman..

.. I did have Doritos with my sandwich today. But it was a tiny bag. :)

[minkyboodle]

45. your life is not mine

as one who hasn't had a dorito in years and suffers from hypothyroidism I'd like to give a general fuck you to your direction. Don't assume that your bag is everyone elses please
EDIT under the treatment of the wonderful folks at the George Washington Weight Management Clinic I have lost 110+ since september of 2004, using a combination of the right drugs and a 900 calorie a day liquid diet.... I'm sorry if I'm coming off as harsh here but when I hear "put down the bag of doritos" I get a little pissed as I have never been a junk food junkie and resent being lumped in with people's fantastical view of what constitutes overweight americans.

[Atman]

50. Sorry you got your knickers in a twist.

"...as one who hasn't had a dorito in years and suffers from hypothyroidism"

Where did I dis anyone with hypothyroidism? Do I have to assume that every bald person I meet has cancer now, too? Hell, I don't have that much hair, maybe I'm going through chemo. Sheesh. This is a big, big country, and there are lots of stories. Your battle with a particular condition is unfortunate, but not what we are talking about. I realize the struggle, and I am glad you are able to work things out. I realize it is very difficult. I lost weight by eschewing virtually all fat intake and consuming only about 1000-1200 calories a day, while doing some basic weight-bench stuff and getting active outdoors. I lost it all in about 7 months.

Oh, and the largest part of the weight loss came when I stopped drinking...twenty pounds dropped in just a few weeks.

So, just as you don't want me to make assumptions, you seem to be doing the same. OF COURSE I'm not saying YOUR condition is a result of eating too many Doritos (a snack which I still eat -- moderation is the key to everything!) But, all Doritos aside, do you at least concur with the part about people treating you differently (I'm making the dangerous assumption that after losing 110 pounds, that you're somewhat close to a "normal" weight now)? That was all the entire thread was about...not the Doritos, or WHY you or I were ever fat. It was about how fat people are treated by others.

Congratulations on your weight loss. That is a trememdous achievment, and I know from personal experience that it isn't easy. But losing the weight was certainly one of the most rewarding accomplishments I've ever had!

[minkyboodle]

84. atman

sorry if "my knickers were in a twist" as they seem to have been ;) I didn't mean to lump you into a category but this country is full of blunt assumptions and I am a bit tired of fitting into a lump category. I'm sure this was not your intention and I apologize for going off a bit at the handle. As to your point of people being treated differently I can definitely concur. In our everyday transactions people are generally shallow and obtuse in how they interact with others.. It is unfortunate and can be quite painful to those on the short end of the stick in these matters (I'm speaking as one who has been). Congrats on your weight loss and kudos for doing what was necessary to upgrade your situation, I guess my message would be in general don't judge a book by its cover as you never know what lays beneath. Cheers :)

[TygrBright]

59. Oh, lord, do we HAVE to go through this again....?

(Please note, Atman, not picking on you, personally, just you-as-spokesperson-for-unthinking-assumptions.)

1. Depending on your genetic heritage, it may take a great deal more than "running around the block and tossing out your Doritos" to reach the level of skinniness considered "acceptable" in our sick culture.

2. Not all of those who are deemed "fat" in our society are "fat" because they don't exercise and they scarf junk food. Many of the people I know who don't fit the "acceptably skinny" model our culture advances are physically active, healthy eaters.

3. The level of "fat" considered culturally unacceptable by our sick society is actually far, FAR below the level where obesity poses serious health risks.

4. The level of "fat" that poses health risks to any given individual will vary based on a number of factors unique to that individual; some individuals are healthier at higher body fat percentages than others.

5. Not everyone values getting hit on and flirted with based on something as shallow as their physical appearance; most people regarded as "fat" would simply be happy with being treated with ordinary politeness and consideration.

Now, before anyone goes off on me, let me do the disclaimers:

1. Yes, serious obesity is a real health risk and seriously obese people should make an effort to lower their weight, assuming they can do so safely. The "safety" factors will vary based on the individual.

2. Everyone, regardless of weight, will experience health benefits from integrating healthy, enjoyable exercise into their lifestyle and minimizing the amount of junk food they consume.

As someone who has been both skinny (underweight) and fat (overweight,) and who has stabilized at a level that is healthy (for ME,) but unacceptably "fat" in our culture (size fourteen, WOO, fat city! and I'm only 5'8" and middle aged, how ABNORMAL!) yes, I DO have a chip on my shoulder, thanks very much. I get shit-sick-and-tired of having it assumed that I'm a couch potato slob who scarfs junk food, when I'm an active biker, gardener, and cross-country skier who eats a lower calorie count than many "skinny" friends of mine.

We live in a culture that brands any woman who has a figure more ample than a fourteen-year-old post breast-enhancement surgery patient, "fat." The current epidemic of obesity is, indeed, an unhealthy phenomenon, but the solution to that problem is NOT to make fat people feel worse about themselves. (CLUE: Feeling worse about yourself is a great way to get fatter!)

Acceptance, even celebration, of the normal physical variations among human bodies would go a long way to easing the pressures that contribute to self-defeating behaviors. Imagine how liberating if the heroines of Hollywood films varied in size and body type, and IT WASN'T a "big deal." Imagine how empowering if the normal effects of aging on the human body were acceptable among models, actors, etc., and they could still be portrayed as attractive and sexually desirable based on the whole person, rather than their boob size/waist size ratio, or whether they have six-pack abs!

Telling "fat" people to get up off the couch and quit eating junk food is about as helpful as tossing a millstone to a drowning man.

/end rant

wearily,
Bright

[redqueen]

60. "Telling "fat" people to get up off the couch and quit eating junk food...

is about as helpful as tossing a millstone to a drowning man."

So much so that one might even wonder if helpfulness was really the goal.

[PennyLane]

90. Sadly......

.......true! Same thing happened to me. It's too bad that society places so much damned emphasis on looks, but I found out the hard way!
Before I lost weight, I swore I'd never fly on Southwest because they were the first to start charging more for overweight people. But they do have the cheapest prices and I have flown them several times now. So much for principles!

[oldcoot]

14. Confused beliefs about morality

In this case, the clerks were probably rude because they assume that obese women are less moral than thin women. They may believe that obese women lack self-discipline and indulge themselves more than thin women.

However, it is really stupid to be rude to any customer, regardless of that customer's weight, especially if one works on commission. It is also important for clerks to remember that customers do not live in total isolation. If they are treated badly, they may complain to their friends and family.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

15. I Wonder How Much of It Is Subconscious?

It wouldn't surprise me if that accounted for a lot of it.

DTH

[WindRavenX]

18. I've heard of this theory before

It makes sense but still...
I just don't understand why people have to be so...mean to one another, you know?

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. I expect that the link between obesity and economic class is probably

a good indicator here.

Sales clerks probably associate obesity with a lower economic class position (and, by and large, they'd be correct, for all kinds of reasons), and therefore spend less time trying to sell stuff to the poor. You'd get similar results, I'd expect for youth, college students, minorities, etc.

[Mnemosyne]

31. Do you have something to back up this statement?

"Sales clerks probably associate obesity with a lower economic class position (and, by and large, they'd be correct, for all kinds of reasons)"
I'd like to see it. I have wealthy friends and poor friends. I have worked in a country club and been a member of one. There seems to be no correlation in my dealings. It seems to be a small matter of genetics.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. No correlation between obesity and economic class?

You're kidding, right?

[Mnemosyne]

63. I was speaking of the people at the country club

there were as many fat women as thin. Money seemed to make no difference there. Nor amongst my friend of either class. Just what I have observed among friends.

[alcibiades_mystery]

66. That's nice

re: your observations, but every study in the last thirty years has noted a significant correlation between obesity and economic class, so I'll stick with the widespread observations in the social sciences and discount your personal anecdotes for now.

[Mnemosyne]

67. Good for you. Scientific studies have never been

known to be influenced or biased in any way in this country. And the "news" is true and unbiased too.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[alcibiades_mystery]

69. Whereas your personal observations at the country club

are the ultimate height of objectivity.

A bizarre response. I'll stick with the peer reviewed material and leave you to your musings.

[Mnemosyne]

71. I never said that at all.

You should pay attention before you insult people. I told what I have observed and that is what I stated originally and you attacked me for it. What is your problem? My response was to your faith that the studies are unbiased and not bought and paid for by whomever wants something skewed their way. What is bizarre about that? They are caught each day, haven't you been paying attention?

[alcibiades_mystery]

81. The studies

That demonstrate correlations between obesity and economic class come from all ends of the spectrum. It is a particularly hard thing to refute, since it meshes with common sense experience.

Take 100 people at random who make more than $200,000 a year.
Take 100 people at random who make less than $20,000 a year.

Where would you expect to find more obese people. Be honest, for God's sake.

Everyone knows the answer. The fact that there are athletes in the latter group and fat people in the former doesn't change the fact that everyone knows how to answer that question, and all studies of the issue in the last 30 years support that common sense answer. perhaps you are being dense, but I don't even think you believe in a lack of correlation. To do so would be ignorant and obtuse beyond even basic observation. Go to the upper west side of manhattan. then go to rural mississippi. where do you expect to find more obese people. if you say the upper wwest side of manhattan, you are a liar, and you goddamn well know it.

[One_Life_To_Give]

93. Why do you expect this?

In my experience I have not observed this. It may be true, but it has not been my observation.

[kimchi]

35. There is a direct correlation.

One reason: money. Macaroni and cheese is cheap; fresh fruit is expensive. My mother rarely bought fresh fruit unless it was in season--from the orchard, when it was cheap. She also had a garden, and did lots of canning. Carbs are cheap--rice, potatoes, bread. Protein and fruit are expensive. We would go in with our neighbors and buy a half side of cow and freeze it to last all year. Many nights seven of us sat down to a lovely dinner of--fried potatoes. Or sausage gravy for breakfast; with very little sausage. We had roast once a month. I never got to eat steak; that was a treat for my parents.

We never went on vacation or out to dinner, either. My mother was morbidly obese, and it killed her. Part of it was poverty, part of it was ignorance, part of it was genetics, and part of it was just culture--we ate like the farm hands my parents once were.

The Atkins diet in one way has actually been good-- to educated people that protein is more filling than carbs. I didn't learn that from my parents, or from school, or even from college. Of course knowledge will only get you so far if you have to choose between meat and medicine.

[cmd]

55. When I got to college, I was amazed that .........

people were served a whole pork chop! One chop was enough to feed three people at our house.

[earth mom]

57. Sorry but that's a crock and an insult to overweight people!

To say people are overweight because they are uneducated is bigoted and prejudiced. You should not judge ANYONE until you have walked a mile in their shoes!

Some weight problems are due to heredity or health issues, but most overweight people are overweight due to emotional reasons. They choose comfort foods because they have emotions they are unable to control any other way-you could call it self medication without drugs or alcohol. It's an overwhelming struggle and should not be looked upon any differently than any other addiction. Look at people with anorexia or bulimia-they have emotional food issues, but manage to keep the weight off through purging, diuretics or spurning food altogether, though they continue to obsess about food every minute-it's no different really-they are overweight on the inside. Read Dr. Phils book or many other books on the topic and you'll find this to be so. In addition, most, if not all overweight people who are overweight have usually been on many diets and have been "educated" to the point where they well know the difference between healthy food and fattening foods.

When an overweight person gets to the bottom of why they are eating to self medicate and work to heal their emotional wounds, they are then able to lose the weight and keep it off. A little compassion for what these people are going through goes a long way.

[alcibiades_mystery]

82. I doubt anyone is making a direct causal link

The question is whether there is a legitimate correlation between economic class and obesity across populations. In Western nations, there is clearly a correlation. That is not an insult to anybody. It is a statistically significant observation (and it meshes with common sense experience, by the way).

Awareness of overweight is not the issue. Capacity to control your food environment is the issue, and the problem. Cut the emotional bullshit. This is a class issue first and foremost, when looked at from the scale of the whole society (rather than the sacle of "my neighbor" or "my cousin").

[kimchi]

87. I think you need to read it again.

Please don't put words in my mouth or make my statements about MY family and life circumstances to be generalized or bigoted. THAT is ignorant.

And what is insulting to ME is that you think most people are overweight because they have "emotional issues". Talk about generalizations!

I have plenty of compassion for those who are going through hard times. Not everyone who is overweight wants to lose weight. Your generalizations in that area assume that fat people don't feel good about themselves and that is a crock of shit. I am considered obese but I've always had self confidence no matter what my weight was. And now, at the fattest I've ever been, I know who I am. Your weight doesn't tell who you are; and it is prejudiced to assume that all people are fat because they have an emotional disease or don't take care of themselves or don't love themselves.

And for giving everyone the impression that we all want to be models, or that we are lesser people, society can kiss my big fat luscious white ass.

[Sabriel]

52. Poverty limits where you can shop

Many low-income urban residents may not have the same access to larger, cheaper grocery stores and are forced to shop at convenience stores. That means lots of prepared foods, few fruits and veggies. Besides, have you SEEN the price on veggies lately? Yikes. It makes burger and noodles look pretty good, money-wise.

[AngryOldDem]

73. Sorry, but I think it has been at least a correlation made

between weight and economic class. In a nutshell, correllational studies have shown that people in the lower classes do not eat as well or as healthily as those in higher economic classes. That will lead to weight gain.

While genetics most definitely can play a part, so can bad nutrition habits and no nutrition education.

Don't have the studies in front of me, but they're out there.

[progressivebydesign]

43. There are concrete statistics that obesity and social class are linked.

Especially in women. Smoking and obesity have been found to be much more prevalent in lower socioeconomic classes, and amongst manual, unskilled labor workers. Here's just a sample of the data you can find online about this issue: http://www.heartstats.org/datapage.asp?id=1013 Don't shoot the messengers... I have lived in affluent and poor areas. Obesity is waaay more common in the poor areas. Shop in a Nordstrom in a ritzy area, then go to a Walmart in a poor area. The anecdotal from that experience is backed up by research.

The lack of recreational opportunities, stress, bad eating habits, and family influences, contribute to obesity in those situations. Yes.. some people are genetically predisposed to obesity, but lifestyle has so much more to do with it.

[Missy Vixen]

8. I thought this was fairly interesting

From the same article: "We're hoping that people will pay attention and become more aware" of what obese people go through every day, said King, who started the study as an undergraduate student.

Here's another newsflash: Most people don't care to become "aware," even when it's costing them money. After all, fat people aren't human, are they?

Julie

[Hardrada]

10. Where the hell do you go shopping where

they let you sip diet sodas anyway? Anyway they could all shop at Walmart where they could just blend right in. (Just kidding).

[rocktivity]

17. For a second, I thought it said, "Obese STRIPPERS!"

:rofl:
rocknation

[Hardrada]

21. LOL !

[Hardrada]

20. Hey, this is sexist too (another newsflash!) What about

obese or overweight men shoppers?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

22. If someone came into MY store sipping a soda,

fat or thin, diet or regular, I'd ask them to leave...politely, of course.

[despairing optimist]

23. Rewrite headline: Obesity Is Key to Staying Within Budget, Study Shows

Since obese people are treated so shamefully, they hate to shop and thus are less inclined to indulge in wild spending sprees, buying things they don't need with money they don't have.

"This could be the best reason yet to keep on the pounds," said one plump shopper who was leaving her third store empty-handed. "Nothing my size? No problem. Clerks are less inclined to try flattery as a way to get me to buy something."

[undergroundpanther]

26. Self Esteem

and beauty and a person's worthiness of love has been so manipulated in this profit ruled,power obsessed,country.Our desires and aversions are so manipulated from cradle to grave,so marketed,so conditioned I find most people cannot tell what they THEMSELVES like,they only know and accept what they think *should* like or are *supposed* to like.

This is why everyone in this nation strives to look so much alike and why standards of beauty are so uniform.
Go outside our culture I mean totally outside it and what is beautiful changes based in how the people in THAT culture are are manipulated from cradle to grave in the way thier culture defines these'standards'.

What I wanna know is who or what is the fool manipulating desire,emotions and belonging to the point of making up all these measuring sticks"standards" "norms" that too many people compete to measure up to? And feel so"priveleged" if the measure up to? Or treated as outcast if they don't measure up to it? Who invented this game and isn't it time to stop being ruled by it?

[lenidog]

27. Off this topic but another instance of what you are talking about

I was flipping through the channels and somewhere they had this show about plastic surgery. Theere was this woman getting a pre-op check up from her plastic surgeon on her breast implants. The thing that got me was she said to the surgeon that she finally felt like a woman. Maybe this is wrong but I thought it was sad that we live in a culture that would make a woman feel that she wasn't a woman unless she had some foreign material stuck into her body risking her health. (Yeah, I know the FDA said there was no connection between any illness and breast implants but I have heard to many things over the years to believe that BS.)

[undergroundpanther]

28. The bigotry against

fat. The artificial preferences people have for certain looks ,clothes and body types.Why is it THERE? Ever ask why? These"ideals" are all manufactured and sold to us,they are engineeered,and very profitable for those people making money by marketing these"standards" of what is to be desired to us telling us what we think we should want or want to be like from day 1.

[shanti]

37. and those beliefs are distinctly american

my jamaican friend told me that he was astounded when he came to the u.s. and saw that over here, people PAY money NOT to eat. only in america.....:-(

[bbgrunt]

39. in some cultures fattness is admired

as a indication of wealth and well-being. Tonga, Samoa, even some latin cultures before they were infected with tv from the u.s.

[AngryAmish]

65. But in our culture fattness is not admired.

[hippiechick]

54. An Irony ...

How our society is currently so obsessed with breast implants and large hooters, yet stores (including Victoria's Secret) DO NOT carry the attractive, sexy bras in larger cup sizes.

:wtf:

[redqueen]

61. I don't wonder why leaders lead... simple - they love power.

What I wonder about is why followers follow.

[donheld]

30. Now this is a stunner

NOT!

[MADem]

32. Once upon a time, FAT

...was a sign of WEALTH. Look at all the old nekkid pictures of women, they were thick, those gals, and happy. Thin was NOT in. A guy with a bay window was considered successful, because he could afford to eat and eat well.

Nowadays, the good foods like veggies and fruit cost an arm and a leg. So people buy the high fructose shit and fill up on that...and then they crave more, and the cycle begins.

I blame Twiggy for the starving look, she started it. And I blame these corporate pigs who put corn syrup in EVERYTHING, down to fishsticks, facrissake, for at least a portion of the raging obesity in the US. The fact that kids don't "go out and play" anymore is also a factor....

[daleo]

38. SocEconStatus implications of exercise comes into the picture too

At one time thin implied a physically demanding job, and thick implied a cushier job, maybe a manager. Now, thin implies time to go to the gym to work out, while thick implies a drearier office job that doesn't pay enough for a luxury like gym fees. Poorer neighborhoods are often not very walkable either, although middle class suburbs are no great shakes either.

I wonder how natural the actors looked in the padded clothes though. That may have affected the experiment.

[MADem]

46. Good points--and if the actors looked anything like

that Paltrow actress in the movie Shallow Hal, they'd be believable. That was quite the makeup and special effects job!

[Megahurtz]

74. Yeah, corn syrup sucks.

I hate that they put sugar in everything.

[NYC]

83. I totally agree with these 2 things.

...I blame Twiggy for the starving look, she started it. And I blame these corporate pigs who put corn syrup in EVERYTHING, down to fishsticks, facrissake, for at least a portion of the raging obesity in the US. The fact that kids don't "go out and play" anymore is also a factor....

I wonder how many eating disorders there were before Twiggy?

[BiggJawn]

34. So who wants to go to a Mall anyway?

I hate shopping malls. almost worse than GreatSatan-Mart.

Department store clerks have Tood, anyway. Like, "Oh, so you get your HANDS dirty to get YOUR money? *I* don't...And I DON'T have to wear that silly blue vest, either..."

[CoffeeCat]

41. I would say these comments are true...

I've been everywhere from a size 5 to a 16.

In my experience--when you're thin, you get lots and lots of attention and perks. I never realized how many perks there were, and how much attention was given--until I gained weight and it all went away.

Gaining weight was like taking an invisible pill.

People assume a lot about thin people and about fat people--and their assumptions are really a big pile of crap.

I did love being pregnant though! Oh, the endearing looks and smiles you get. People practically trip over themselves to hold a door open or give up their seat while waiting for a table at a restaurant.

[artemisia1]

42. People are so damn stupid...

As the historian Will Durant said regarding progress(paraphrased); "...we're the same trousered apes at 60 miles an hour that we were at five".

[Clark Bayh 2008]

47. Not surprising

but Clark is very slim... and likable...
Hillary might need to get a little buff for the primaries..

[Merlin]

48. What's WRONG with these awful fat people? Couldn't they just take a pill ?

My gosh, there's all kinds of things they can do to lose weight. Just look at all the diets and pills and potions and exercise machines and plans and groups.

We have lots of evidence that these things all work, don't we? Anybody who wants to lose weight can do it. Ain't that so? Especially after you hit 40? It's easy, right?

Believe me, these are the beliefs of 80%+ of those who don't have weight problems (and even many who do) in our culture. People believe it's a moral, willpower issue. They are clueless about reality.

(I haven't seen my toes in years.)

[sendero]

49. 80%?

Come on, at least half of the people in this country have a weight problem.

That said, I wish I could get paid for doing a "study" that confirms the obvious. Of course, a similar study would simply find that the physically attractive (whether weight has anything to do with it or not) get treated better.

It is human nature and it is not going to go away.

Next thing you know someone will do a study: "good looking guys find it easier to get laid!".

Yeah, no shit sherlock.

[Merlin]

51. Yup 80%. And it's not a simple matter of being LESS favorably treated

It's not a matter of being considered unattractive, it's a matter of being thought of as detestable; without moral fiber; totally culpable. None of that is true.

Nor is it true that all those who HAVE a weight problem think otherwise. Most believe all these bullshit comeons work and they are just doing something wrong.

The fact is there are envirochemical, cultural, physiological and genetic factors at work which have the effect of making significant, sustainable weight loss virutually impossible for past-middle-age adults without stomach-altering surgery.

[hippiechick]

53. Having been rather large at one point in my life, I agree.

EVERYONE tends to treat others differently based on appearance, despite the fact that - presumptively - you are the same person on the inside, whether you are now slim or obese.

Talk about a way to cause some severe emotional and trust-related issues .... whew !


:(

[earth mom]

56. Just how many ultra thin women out there have eating disorders?

Anorexia or Bulimia? No doubt-lots and lots and lots and lots. But no one judges them of course....

[AngryAmish]

64. Talk about preconceived notions

Yes, lots and lots of thin women have a life-threatening psychiatric disease. Please report to the nearest mental hospital and tell them you can diagnose psychiatric disease just by looking briefly at a patient. I'm sure this will be a breakthrough on level of the discovery of Thorazine.

[earth mom]

68. If you had read my post, I said "ultra thin" women...

Bulimia and anorexia are hidden illnesses because the women look normal, and as well, they are secretive about it and don't confess to their problem because of the stigma. Overweight people are obvious to see-but BOTH extremes are exhibiting symptoms of the same problem-EMOTIONAL EATING!

[daleo]

58. Some data on the link between income and weight

This is from a Canadian study released today by Statistics Canada, but the general result would probably be the same in the U.S.:

"As income rises, risk of obesity drops
For both men and women, being a member of a high-income household was associated with a decreased likelihood of becoming obese.

Overweight men in the richest household income categories fared better than their counterparts from households in the bottom income category. The risk of the upper-income men becoming obese was about 40% less than for men in the lowest income group.

Similarly, women in the top household income categories were less likely to become obese than women from households in the lowest income group. Again, the higher-income groups were 40% less likely to become obese."

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050407/d050407a.htm

The study is a panel survey (they look at the same people over time), and one of the findings was that people with weight problems were more likely to gain additional weight if they had low incomes.

On the plus side, moderate drinking seemed to have a protective effect as far as weight gain went (cheers, I guess):

"Physical activity, occasional drinking offer some protection
Not surprisingly, overweight people who were restricted in their daily activities were at increased risk of becoming obese.

The study found the association was statistically significant for men. Physical restrictions may lead people to become inactive, thereby increasing their risk of gaining weight.

Moderate physical activity, including walking and standing, did offer overweight women some protection against obesity.

The risk of becoming obese was almost 50% lower among overweight women who reported occasional drinking, compared with those who never drank.

While a similar pattern was observed for men, the association did not reach statistical significance."

[pelagius]

62. Another amazing finding from the Duh Institute! n/t

[Megahurtz]

72. On the other hand

I've seen many obese people act rudely for no reason.

Maybe they don't feel good about themselves mentally or physically so they lash out?

Anyway, I think it can go both ways.:dilemma:

They can be just as rude if not worse!

[Biased Liberal Media]

88. I'm not a rude fat person, but I know from experience

that some obese people lash out and act angry or rude due to being defensive. It's just the defenesive mechanism, IMHO.

I am working on letting people step all over me though. I did last year but I turned into a mega-bitch. That's not who I want to be.

[Skittles]

75. I have tremendous empathy for obese people

I don't care WHY they are fat - I just know no one wants to BE fat. I remember when I was a child, kicking the asses of little brats taunting a fat girl; boy, I trashed them GOOD.

[SoCalDem]

79. Fat people and smokers are about the only scapegoats left

and even though neither is committing a sin or breaking a law, it;s somehow ok to them to be vilified.

I guess when there were many groups there to be made fun of, there was "safety in numbers", and the abuse was spread out, but it;s all comew down to a dwindling few..

A friend of mine died a few years back because he had finally had his fill of being made fun of.. He had a gastric bypass surgery, and died at home 4 days later.. He was overweight and so desperate to NOT be..:cry:

[Biased Liberal Media]

89. I was once followed around in Lane Bryant

it really pisses me off. I complained to management about it and they apologized, the girl no longer works there. She looked at me suspiciously while I was trying to hold onto the hand of my then-4 yo daughter and shop at THEIR store. Tell me- I had a small purse- and a T SHIRT on- how the HELL am I gonna shoplift?? I never understood that.

Now I order online.

Another instance of rude behavior was I was helping a girlfriend of mine look for a prom dress when we were in high school (I think 95 or 96), and this salesperson comes up to me and said, rather rudely, "You should be in Plus Size Department". My friend heard it and came over and said, "And you just lost a sale because SHE was helping ME".

What a bitch.

[PennyLane]

91. Yep!

Thank God for online catalogs!

[One_Life_To_Give]

92. Is that possible?

Service is so bad/non-existent to start with. Treating people worse than average must take some real effort. There must be a special school where they teach service personel to piss on customers.