Large Blast Hits Bus Carrying Iraqi Soldiers -WP

[Rose Siding]

TALL AFAR, Iraq, April 5 -- A huge bomb exploded near a bus filled with Iraqi soldiers returning from leave Tuesday, killing at least three and wounding at least 44 in an attack that showed how even a payroll issue in Iraq can turn deadly.

The Iraqi soldiers were en route to a U.S. base here from the city of Sinjar, where they had dropped off their monthly pay. Because Iraq's banking system cannot accommodate direct deposits, recruits are given a week's leave each month to carry their money home -- a system that has created chronic security problems and hampered the U.S. military's efforts to develop Iraq's new army.

The bus, carrying nearly 50 soldiers, was surrounded by several trucks mounted with guns to fend off an attack by insurgents. But as the bus neared a checkpoint in the late afternoon on the west side of Tall Afar, a violent city of about 250,000 near the Syrian border, the bomb exploded close to its left side.

"I think knew that this was our day to come back," said Capt. Ismail Simmo, who said he was riding in one of the gun trucks when the bomb exploded. "We thought we were safe."

For three hours Tuesday night, a tableau at once bleak and inspiring unfolded in the shadows near an aid station at Forward Operating Base Sykes. American soldiers working in teams used stretchers or their own shoulders to move the bloodied Iraqis between the intensive care unit and medevac helicopters that ferried at least 20 of them to a U.S. combat support hospital in Mosul, about 35 miles to the east.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28309-2005Apr5.html

[Teaser]

1. More Iraqis getting freedomed.

4 dead Americans today, and this, and God knows what else...man that's a lot of freedom for one day.

[boneygrey]

2. OK I'm in an ascerbic mood.

Are you happy about this for purely political reasons?

[Rose Siding]

3. Must be your mood

I don't read anything in that post as happiness about what happened.

[boneygrey]

4. Oh, I do

As shitty as things are, I'm fucking tired of the focus on death and the gottcha attitude. Let's win and get out of Iraq.

[tkmorris]

9. Win what exactly?

A war? Well, in the conventional sense, we already did that. So let's go home.

What's that you say? Find the WMD's? Kill/arrest all the terrorists? There aren't any of the former and the latter that exist in Iraq are all ones we created. They won't quit until we do, believe that.

We cannot install a government to our liking in Iraq longterm. We can force one upon them which they will promptly overthrow at their earliest opportunity. Or we can accept what they come up with on their own. That process would likely be even bloodier than the it has been for the last 2 years and would result in either a heavily fractured group of mini-states or another strongman a la Hussein only he would have to be even more heavy-handed to maintain control.

Seriously, I am not questioning your motives at all, I just would like to understand what anyone thinks we can do in Iraq anymore. Our continued presence there helps what? What can we "win"?

[Algorem]

23. Only possible win would be Bush and gang are tried and hang.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[boneygrey]

21. Fucking Twit?

You called me that? Why?

[The_Casual_Observer]

22. No fair!

Answer my question first, What job do we have to do to "win"?

[boneygrey]

25. Hopefully get some kind of

trilateral gov't in there so we can get out. So far, there is a Kurdish Pres, and a Sunni VP, and a Shia VP. My fingers are crossed.

[The_Casual_Observer]

26. I admire your optimism

I truly wish I could share it, however this is a road that has been well traveled and it never leads there.

[boneygrey]

27. Optimism?

I hope. I must admit that I'm pleasantly surprised by the political events in Iraq. :wow:

[saigon68]

45. What great events?? More GIs Killed ?

The US needs to get the Fuck out of there.

[thebigidea]

32. so everything is ok if we just get one of each group?

how freaking naive is that?

[boneygrey]

35. You must admit

its a good start.:shrug:

[Cha]

5. I agree..no happiness

is coming from the first post.

[Teaser]

6. No, I simply enjoy death.

It began as a child. I grew up on a farm, and one summer we just had too damn many chickens. Hadda do something to get rid of them. So I took what could have been a tedious job and made it fun. I took the chickens down to route 80, cut their heads off and sent those fuckers across the road running, spouting blood, and generally scaring the shit out of passing motorists.

Jesus Christ, I never laughed so hard in my life.

(by the way, this is false. But it's really the only answer your pissant little question deserves).

[boneygrey]

10. (by the way, this is false. But it's really the only answer your pissant l

Sorry we disagree. Pissant?

[boneygrey]

11. Pissant?

Wow, you are the King of debate. I'm so humbled in your presence. I am not worthy. NOW ADDRESS THE DAMN TOPIC instead of calling names.:bounce:

[boneygrey]

12. No answer?

Figures. I'm off to bed. Go revel in death.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[boneygrey]

20. Chuckles?

I like it. Thanks.:woohoo:

[merwin]

7. I think that could be described as 'dark sarcasm'.

[boneygrey]

29. You may

be wise beyond your years.:applause:

[leftchick]

40. Lots of shit Tues. and Iraq is FUBAR ! our TVs show NOTHING!

Here is a post I did with some photos from 4/5/05....oh yeah, and the US killed an Iraqi Photographer working for ABC news. By accident....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3428244&mesg_id=3428244

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. "How even a payroll issue can turn deadly"???

They've been killing Iraqi Army guys on lines for checks and money long time now. Imagine...50 soldiers have to be flanked by armored trucks to get A-B in moderate safety. Next they'll tell us that the armored trucks have to be surrounded by tanks, and the tanks by giant sand zambonis. The whole friggin thing is ridiculoso extremo.

[The_Casual_Observer]

33. Next they'll tell us that the armored trucks have to be surrounded by tank

That would be called "good progress"

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

14. FUBAR!

Fucked
Up
Beyond
All
Recognition

[boneygrey]

17. SNAFU

Situation normal all fucked up.:beer:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thebigidea]

24. because you're spreading the bullshit RW line about us reveling in death

maybe we should be reveling in the idiocy of thinking we can "win" anything in Iraq...

[boneygrey]

28. No

I actually have the ability to think for myself.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boneygrey]

37. I see

you have not followed the whole conversation.:banghead:

[ninkasi]

30. Teaser doesn't seem condescending to me...

but that's just my own humble opinion. That was an observation on my part, just giving my thoughts. I am not a debater, I am a great-grandmother who lives with a condition which causes chronic pain.

Pain can make me a bit cranky, so I tried to give you my opinion politely.

[boneygrey]

34. Thank You

for your input. Hope you feel better.:pals:

[ninkasi]

39. I thank you

for your wishes for my health. I'm glad you understand that I was only giving my own opinion, and after having raised a number of children, step-children, and younger brothers, I have learned well the lesson of trying to be honest, yet fair.

There is nothing quite like a house full of teen-agers (more than 20 years ago now) to teach humility. I try to assume that posters are being well meaning, and sometimes irony is the only way we can deal with what many of us perceive as the many atrocities currently being carried out in our names.

I only wish we would withdraw from Iraq immediately, and at least stop the bloodshed we are meting out, and suffering from. I'm going to bed now, hoping the pain meds have had a chance to kick in and give me a few precious hours of sleep.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[Dr Fate]

19. Were they "evil?"

????

[boneygrey]

36. Yes

You figure out who.:evilgrin:

[plasticsundance]

41. Defending the indefensible

This is what the sentiments of bonegrey amounts to. Bonegrey's attempt at positing a statement on this topic cannot be called an argument, because bonegrey has yet to defend his position on why he would resort to taking such a cheap shot at accusing a DU member of reveling at the all too common place daily violent death in Iraq. Nor has bonegrey defended his statement about what it is we will win Iraq.

The political complexities in Iraq, and the lack of understanding many in the US have concerning the interactions between factions within Iraqi culture, is the very problem that has turned miles and miles of Iraqi sand into quicksand for the coalition.

The illegal invasion of Iraq has reaped exactly what one might have thought it would sow. We would be derelict as members of our society not to direct attention to the daily negative aspects of this war, especially since it involves the suffering of innocent Iraqis and our young men and women in uniform.

The Iraqi war was built on a foundation of many lies. There is an ongoing effort to erect rhetoric that would hopelessly prop up and perpetrate the illegal Iraq invasion, an invasion which continuously builds upon the ignominious bricks of pernicious mendacity. No amount of false hope, unjustified piety, or belligerent self-righteousness will change the basic fact that the US has comitted atrocities and stirred up a bee hive in Iraq.

The insulting and ridiculous assumption that the symbolic gesturing of choosing political leaders for a new Iraqi government from a sham election, neglects the obvious fact that Bush has no plans of repealing Executive Order 13303

Nor will it change the fact that much of the money from the US Congress is earmarked for building 14 permanent US military bases in Iraq.

The abhorrent attempt for some now to accuse the anti-war crowd of taking delight in the continuing Iraqi violence is a denial of reality on a grand scale. However, with that said, those desiring a victory by the US in Iraq need to explain what that victory means not just for the ME region, but the global community. The Pinocchio-Bush Administration has yet to offer Congress or the American public a strategic plan, let alone an exit strategy. That's because there is no exit strategy.

What dangerous precedent would a US victory in Iraq have on the ME region? What bolstering of hubris would a US victory in Iraq mean for an already out of control Bush Administration? What further suffering would it imply for other nations in the ME region, including innocent civilians.

Thank you to all the DU posters that link to articles that actually describe the reality of the Iraq war, and helping in combating the delusional and ignorant.

[boneygrey]

42. Sorry to have stirred up

so much. Look, I have a friend serving in Iraq and this post hit a nerve. My thoughts were about his well being and I overreacted. Having had a few beers didn't help.:blush:

[moddemny]

44. ......

...

[saigon68]

46. The Bush Criminals and their ally Chalabi brought the war on.

They are now reaping what they have sewn.

This is after all IRAQ-NAM

[moddemny]

43. The abhorrent attempt for some now to accuse the anti-war crowd of taking

delight in the continuing Iraqi violence is a denial of reality on a grand scale"


The problem is some in the anti-war (even if they are a small percentage)crowd have in message boards and at protests advocated the death of U.S. soldiers . Some very openly, others through more complex rationalizations and comparisions (example - soldiers who follow orders are just like germans during WWII therefore they get what's coming to them). Many people cannot seperate their view of Bush's policies from their view of soldiers who serve in Iraq. The right wing may make too much of a few bad apples on the left who have negative views of those in the military but we shouldn't help giving them (right wing) anymore ammo. Bonegrey may have jumped the gun a little in this particular thread but if he does have a friend in Iraq and observed this behavior elsewhere I can understand why he is bothered. If he condemns a few extreme lefty's (although this thread may not be the right place) who automatically take extreme anti-soldier positions, so what. Bush did make a tremendous amount of errors but Iraq still isn't over and there is hope for some positive outcome. Before you accuse everyone else of being delusional and arrogant you should stop viewing everything through the lens of Bush-hate.

A success in Iraq does not mean a precedent for another invasion, enough damage has been done and enough lives lost to discourage similiar dumb moves in the future. Blame Bush for the lives lost, blame him for the lack of planning, blame him for his unilateral moves but hope that Iraq somehow does become a success.