Canada may retaliate against new U.S. border rules

[Newsjock]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/04/05/passports050405.html

CBC News

WASHINGTON - In response to a new rule requiring most Canadians to carry passports for entry into the U.S., Public Security Minister Anne McLellan said Americans may also have to carry the document to enter Canada.

"Our system has really always worked on the basis of reciprocity," McLellan said outside the House of Commons.

"And therefore we will review our requirements for American citizens and we're going to do that in collaboration with the United States."

more

[Name removed]

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[leesa]

19. Why? It's punishment for imposing a tariff on the US...do you think it's

a good idea to estrange yourself from friends and neighbors? We are making enemies far faster than we can kill them.

[Stuckinthebush]

44. Bingo!

It is a terrible idea because it is another indication of how far we have fallen out of favor with the world community. When even our closest neighbor (some could even call them a sibling) starts to get cold, then we have truly become a pariah.

Thanks Bush! You f***ing dimwit.

[xray s]

2. no problemo

I have my passport. If you don't have one, I strongly suggest you get one as soon as possible, especially if you are of draft age.

[mmonk]

3. I'll definitely have to visit

this year.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Passports are good things to have.

I keep mine handy -- just in case I decide to get the hell out of here, fast.

[meppie-meppie not]

52. yes it is but the greater issue here is just how far your government

is going to alienate it closest ally. This is just one more way to shit on your neighbour with a little fuck you thrown in for good measure. It's really sad how far this administration has gone to sever this "friendship" :( Assholes!

[SoCalDem]

56. and if you have it with you, no one can doubt your citizenship

at a polling place on election day:)

I have often thought that a better way to help poor people register without the hassle would be to just get them all passports.. It would probably be cheaper than all the lawsuits after the fact:) and it would be irrefutable identification:)

[Sir Derek]

5. I've been using mine to cross the border for a few years now. I

don't see a problem.

[leesa]

20. Only because you aren't looking.

[icymist]

6. American Visits To Canada, Mexico To Require Passports

American Visits To Canada, Mexico To Require Passports
New Rules Phased In By Jan.1, 2008

POSTED: 9:49 am PDT April 5, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Americans will need passports to re-enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, Panama and Bermuda by 2008, part of a tightening of U.S. border controls in an era of terrorist threat, three administration officials said Tuesday.

Similarly, Canadians will also have to present a passport to enter the United States, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity. Canadians have been the only foreigners allowed to enter the United States with just a driver's license.

An announcement, expected Tuesday at the State Department, will specify that a passport or another valid travel document will have to be shown by U.S. citizens, the officials said.

Until now, Americans returning home from Canada have needed only to show a driver's license or other government-issued photo identification card.

(more)
http://www.kirotv.com/travelgetaways/4348277/detail.html

[marmar]

7. As a resident of a border state...

I think this kind of sucks. Metro Detroiters go back and forth to Windsor, Ontario, as if it were in the States - it's like a suburb. I, too, carry my passport when I cross the border just because it's easier and speedier, but the vast majority of people don't own passports. I do wonder how this will impact transborder leisure trips.
Sometimes I get the feeling that Bush & Co. would prefer that Americans not travel beyond their borders, expand their minds and realize there are perhaps better ways of doing things.

:shrug:

[mmonk]

8. There is one problem

I see though. Passports can be stolen. It's actually smarter IMO to use birth certficates, voter registration cards, in conjuction with drivers licenses.

[fryguy]

9. passports for entry into foriegn countries?

oh my god, what will they do next? no, wait, isn't that what passports are for? its not as if the citizens are being required to obtain visas.

[marmar]

11. Understood, but...

When you're in Europe, traveling from EU country to EU country, passports are not required. I don't know why we need the change the current U.S.-Canada arrangement. The 9/11 hijackers, if I remember correctly, arrived from Germany and would've needed to present a passport, if the prevention of a terrorist attack is the aim of this law.

[fryguy]

15. i'm not saying its right or wrong to change the rules, however

the difference is that the EU countries have agreed among themselves not to require passports as a way of qualifying for membership in the EU. i presume any country could begin requiring passports, but then they would loose the benefits of membership. the US and Canada are not in any similar kind of union with each other (unless i'm mistaken, and please correct me, but NAFTA nor any other treaty we have is silent on the issue), regardless of how open the boarder is and how many times people might jokingly refer to canada as the 51st state.

and i'm also not saying that showing passports will, necessarily, do anything to protect against terrorism - much in the way drivers licenses didn't do anything to prevent the hijackers from boarding the plane. my only point is that enforcing, or implementing anew, the rule doesn't seem to be an unreasonable demand for international travel.

(after all, didn't you see canadian bacon? our northern neighbors are just plain loco... :bounce:)

[Kellanved]

37. EU countries can require passports

For instance, during the Fifa World Cup, Germany will temporarily opt-out of the Schengen treaty.

My issue with the Bush administration's continuous sniping at the Visa-Waiver program (and the Passport-Waiver one), is that stopping it will hurt tourism and business on both sides of the big pond, without doing anything to enhance security (remember: the terrorists had valid, genuine visa. Not fakes and not limited to 90 days). Much the same can be said about closing down the Canadian border.
The legality is without question, that doesn't make it wise.

[Art_from_Ark]

12. Yeah, just imagine that

After all, the EU countries all require passports to travel back and forth among member nations...

Oh, wait a minute, they don't anymore. Fancy that.

[fryguy]

16. what your analogy misses is that

the countries of the EU made the removal of the passport requirement a condition of membership to the EU; Canada and the US don't have a similar agreement (unless there is one in which case please correct me). in addition, while travel within the EU doesn't require showing passports when crossing between individual countries, a passport is required for entry into the EU itself, even for citizens of EU nations. in that respect, travel within the EU is more similar to traveling between states within the US than it is of traveling between the US and Canada.

and as i said in my other post, i'm not saying its right or wrong, i'm merely pointing out that a passport is normally required for people to visit the US and there hasn't been a call to require visas, so it doesn't seem to be an unreasonable requirement.

[Art_from_Ark]

25. Speaking as one who has benefitted from the no-passport system,

I think this is a foolish move on America's part. The no-passport system has been around for as long as I can remember being interested in traveling to Canada (early '70s), and it has brought many benefits to both Canada and the US. I much prefer to maintain the spirit of the Peace Arch in Blaine/White Rock, which proclaims that we (Americans and Canadians) are "Children of a Common Mother" and that the symbolic gates at the Peace Arch should never be closed. To me, this is a step (perhaps small, perhaps not) toward closing those gates.

[kurtyboy]

32. When I was a small boy, my folks would take me and sibs

across the border at Blaine/White Rock often, to visit family. Mom was Canadian, Dad was American, and Dad (a history schoolteacher) pointed to the Peace Arch and explained what it meant---Our two nations share more than we do not, and we've been at peace across this world's-longest-frontier for more years than any other nation-pair on Earth.

Our two nations are like siblings, with a special relationship that ought not be ruined by squabbles.

I agree with you Art, this passport requirement sounds like a bad, xenophobic move.

I have come to expect as much from this administration.

Kurt

[Art_from_Ark]

34. There's a special place in my heart for the Peace Arch

I don't know how many times I've walked through the arch and looked at the Canadian side, with its beautiful flowered Maple Leaf, then turned toward the American side, with its flowered Stars and Stripes, then read the inscription by those symbolic gates and prayed that good relations between our countries would continue forever. And I took my son there and told him the same thing your Dad told you :D I believe it was one of those unique experiences for my son.

[kurtyboy]

36. Dad always related to Sam Hill when pointing out the Arch

I wonder what Sam Hill would say today???

I have a feeling that he'd wish he'd never been born American.

Just sayin'....

[July]

63. I used to cross the Peace Bridge from Buffalo into Canada w/my family.

When I was a child, all they asked was, "Where were you born?" Later, they asked, "Citizenship?"

It saddens me that our good relations with this great neighbor are being torn down systematically by the boobs in DC.

[reprobate]

71. Of course it's foolish. But so is this entire administration.

NOthing they have done makes sense unless you view it from the winsow of paranoya. After all, we must keep the masses afraid. It's the best way to control them.

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. No, it's not a requirement for membership of the EU

The UK and Ireland still require passports for entry, even when coming from elsewhere in the EU. In fact, Iceland and Norway have signed the Schengen treaty despite being outside the EU, and Switzerland is in the process of ratification.

[JohnnyRingo]

10. I always held some pride in US-Canada relations

That we saw things on a par with Bob and Doug McKenzie.
That we could import our greatest comedians with a shared sense of humor.
That the US and Canada were in no way threats to each other's sovereignty.
That going to Niagara was little more hassle than a trip to Cedar Point.

Whenever something bad happens, I blame either GW Buxh or my best friend's wife.

Even my best friend's wife likes Canadians. And she hates everone.

[roguevalley]

13. what bothers me about this is the loss of civility in our oldest

international relationships. Too bad we've pissed even the Canadians off.

[Sir Derek]

18. Canada has no problem with Democrats however we are

beginning to think that as far as Republicans are concerned we are now viewed as an enemy. That is a pity.

[meppie-meppie not]

53. Refuckians are more than an enemy in our eyes, they are a threat

to world peace and any semblance of order or humanity.

[kitty1]

22. As a Canadian I couldn't agree more....

It's a mutual admiration for sure! Luckily, my family has plans to vacation in your splendid nation this summer before new laws are implemented that require DNA testing and an Iris scan for all of us. My son wants to make his life time pilgrimage to the place where Michael Jordan performed his miracles in Chicago.
I only hope that the implementation of passports won't put a large dent in the border town economies. With the price of gas going up so much as well, it could become a costly journey.

[jdj]

14. I smell a draft.

apparently this is exactly what they wanted. in anticipation of what's to come.

[Mari333]

17. I have a passport

thing is, if I go to Canada, can I stay?

[tokenlib]

21. Hell, most people probably don't know how to get a passport.

This is such nonsense--at least with Canada. Now I have to find out how to get a passport.

[amazona]

23. it's very easy these days

I remember back in the day when you had to go to the World Trade Mart or whatever it was called in your major city to get passport and official photo. Much easier now. You can bring your own photo to pretty much any post office. If you belong to AAA, you can get free passport photos made at any of their offices.

[fryguy]

28. post office

its just that easy

[lovuian]

24. i don't see any difference in having a DriversLicense & Birth

than a passport can anybody explain that???

[fryguy]

29. constitutional authority

both birth certs and drvier's lics. are issued by the states and not the federal government. this makes a difference since it is the federal government, and not the individual states, which has the power to regulate trade and commerce with foreign nations - this includes immigration.

[FlaGranny]

45. Does the federal government think

you are more likely to be you with a passport than your are with a driver's license and birth certificiate? What ID do you have to show to get a passport?

[fryguy]

54. its not a matter of which is more likely be carried with someone

a passport is an internationally recognized travel document that verifies the nationality and identity of the person holding it. a drivers license is only a form of identification, not citizenship, and a birth certificate shows citizenship but not identification.

in addition, it is far better for people to travel with their passport and leave their birth certificates home in a safe place. this is because if you loose your passport you can get a new one, whereas it is very very difficult to replace a lost birth certificate. not to mention birth certificates are fragile and might not be able to stand up to much wear and tear. so, speaking as someone who's traveled quite a bit, if people are currently more likely to carry their birth certificates when traveling i think they ought to be encouraged to get a passport for their own convenience.

as for requirements to obtain passports, check here - http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html

[FlaGranny]

66. It's very, very hard

to get a birth certificate? All you have to do is request one. I have duplicate birth certificates in addition to the original ones for ALL my family members. I didn't find it in the slightest bit difficult to get them.

Thanks for the link. I read the requirements, the application, and the ID required. It is much more difficult to get a passport than a duplicate birth certificate (getting photos and going in person and taking oaths). For a person who might want to visit Canada or Mexico every few years or so, it is enough trouble to make some decide not to bother. That's really plain to see.

I've been to Canada twice as a youngster. I have absolutely no doubt I would never have visited Canada if my parents had been required to get passports for us all. In fact, a few years ago when I visited the Bahamas I would not have bothered if I had to get a passport first. This would have required taking at least a half a day off work for two people, nearly $200 in passport fees, ?? for the photos and a long wait hoping the passports would show up on time. Who is going to do that for a weekend? Not me that's for sure. If I take a vacation once every 10 years I'm lucky, so I'm certainly not likely to add another $200 or more to the cost. I'd stay home first.

[CHIMO]

35. Security and interop issues cause EU biometric passport delays

The most serious of the problems Frattini describes with some understatement as "still being finalised" relates to the planned use of a contactless chip to house the passport's data, and the security mechanisms used to protect that data from unauthorised readers. Contactless means (at least in theory) that travellers can breeze through the barriers with a wave of their passport, thus speeding their progress towards whatever destination immigration officials choose to assign them. But contactless also means that the data is vulnerable to snooping, and it should not take too much effort for would-be snoopers to produce devices that will read the passport data from a greater distance than the designers would wish.

Much US opposition to the technology complains, with characteristic insularity, that such systems would allow terrorists to identify Americans abroad and kidnap them. For our non-US readers, however, we should stress that such systems would allow terrorists to identify anybody and kidnap them. Or steal their ID. Or even better from the point of view of automation-happy kleptos, locate and steal their passports.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/01/eu_bio_passport_delay/

There will have to be some standardization on the chips. Can't see having two or three types of passports depending on ones destination.

[Thor_MN]

26. Is there any aspect of life that shrubbie can't screw up?

All this is going to do is ensure that any possible terrorists (those without GOP approval anyway) pick a spot other than an official border crossing to move from Canada to the US or vice versa. Slow them down maybe a couple hours by making them go cross country or by boat. It wouldn't stop anyone other than a "Terrorist of passion" i.e. someone who, in a fit of rage, decided cross the border and steal nuclear material from a power plant or send anthrax laced letters to Democratic senators.

What it will do is piss off yet another country, lower world opinion of us, and inconvience law abiding citizens. Probably there's a companion plan to privatize the process for obtaining a passport - it would fit their MO to find a way to enrich some donors with no bid contracts.

[Laurab]

27. I think it sucks

I live 20 minutes from Canada. For all of my 49 years, I've gone back and forth to Canada - sometimes on a whim, sometimes to play Bingo (high stakes unlike here), sometimes to shop. It's never seemed like another country to me. Just hopped in the car and went.

Canadians come over here just as easily and probably more often - I see their cars in all the shopping mall lots, flea markets, grocery stores - everywhere.

Our countries were FRIENDS. It is a friendship that has endured far longer than my lifetime (my parents got married in Canada), and bushit is screwing with one of our closest friends and allies, because they, unlike him, have common sense. He makes me sicker by the day, if that's possible.

[alfredo]

30. those passports could keep dissidents from traveling

freely.

I think this is more about keeping us in, than keeping "them" out.

[Pachamama]

43. That is, I believe the REAL reason behind this move....

It's more about keeping us in, than keeping "them" out....

[alfredo]

48. I agree

[Megahurtz]

50. I totally agree.

Keeping us trapped.:banghead:

Milking us by forcing us to pay taxes to a Totalitarian Regime that we don't believe in and
using our children to fight a war to benefit$$$$ their corporations,
oppression as misinformation and lack of information about the real world by the mainstream news,
and the newest and latest threat: trying to shut down the blogger air waves like a gag order.

What more could The Bush Cabal Regime want as they wallow in their ill-gotten gain and enjoy the "spoils" of war as they continue to crack their whips on us, the slaves?:argh:

[ConcernedCanuk]

31. Did CBC change the Headline ??

.
.
.

I don't see anything that indicates that it is "retaliation"

If they DID change it - it was a good idea

The article, including Public Security Minister Anne McLellan's comments don't indicate any sort of "getting even" attitude to me . .

Here's what I read for a Headline at the link:

"U.S. will demand passports from Canadians"

Personally, I don't give a hoot one way or t'uther

I ain't crossing that border ever again until the US parks that friggen War Machine

Little things like that "Patriot" Act unnerve me a wee bit

If they can stick there noses up their OWN citizens a$$es an peak around, or throw them in jail with no due process - I dinnae wanna be no furriner down there!!

I'd feel safer in Cuba thank you very much!

[enigmatic]

33. I had to get my passport last Fall..

As part of my emigrating to Canada from the US; looks like I got mine just in time. I had to go down to Calgary (I live in Edmonton)to the American Consul; what a surreal experience..

[salin]

39. How would this impact seniors

travelling to get lower cost perscription drugs?

[FlaGranny]

46. This will surely affect a LOT of Canadians

because we have many Canadians who own winter homes here in Florida. I'd say 10-15% of the people where I live are Canadians who bought their homes here to enjoy the warm winter climate.

[fryguy]

60. not in the least, assuming they have a passport - n/t

[salin]

64. How many have passports?

Will they realize they have to get them. Will they know how (and the expense) to get them? I think it would be solveable for most - but a real pain in the neck the first time finding that they are at the border check - and stuck there with no "acceptable" documentation.

A lot of folks don't have the luxury of travel beyond the immediate area and don't have passports.

[fryguy]

65. its a passport - they're not hard to get

they can be gotten through the Internet and mail or, if you're unable to do that, from any post office, and they're not very expensive - $65 and valid for ten years. so if there is anyone that can afford a drivers license and make the effort to go to a DMV for it, than they can get a passport - its even easier since no eye exam is required for a driver's license.

[truthisfreedom]

40. when we lose Canada, we lose ourselves.

[shadowknows69]

41. I would think that a passport

would be easier for a "terrorist" to obtain than a state specific Driver's License. If anything I think this will make the border less secure. Border patrol will be so busy checking and stamping passports that they'll stop using the instincts the use in an Q&A type situation.

[w4rma]

42. The largest open border in the world just closed. Thank the GOP. (nt)

[earth mom]

47. Go Canada! Stand up to the bastards! eom

[DaDeacon]

49. one word DRAFT !!!

Open your eyes guys this is a mesure to ensure that IF a draft is needed, that the road to our north and south are closed to dodgers.

[Megahurtz]

51. And I say:

HELL NO, WE WON'T GO!!!

[fryguy]

58. so the bushies imposed the rule knowing Canada would reciprocate?

since the rule requires Canadians entering the US to have passports, not US citizens entering Canada to show them to leave the US . . . it is the Canadians who are imposing - quite rightly - this in response their own rule requiring that.

so if this is a plan to seal the boarders, it must mean the Canadian government is working in cahoots with Washington now....

[LisaM]

55. How much ARE passports?

And how easily available are they? I have an expired one - and I seem to recall it was somewhat of a hassle to get it, involving getting a special photo taken, and then having to take it to a federal building, and the whole process was time-consuming and completely ate into my work day.

[fryguy]

59. its very easy

you can go to a post office or even do it from home online

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/renew/renew_833.html

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. I wonder if the purpose is to keep Americans from finding out

about other countries. If the Average American has to get a passport to go to Canada or Mexico or the Caribbean, he or she might simply decide it's not worth the trouble of going.

Then everyone can sit around and say, "Them furrin countries don't got nothin' that we don't got right here in the good old U. S. of A."

[despairing optimist]

61. I just used my passport to go to Syracuse, NY, from NYC

Talk about border crossings. I know NYC is another planet, but really.

Seriously, I didn't want any hassles with TSA guards on a one-day Easter Sunday visit with family, and I've had problems with photo IDs that weren't driver's licenses. I once used a license that was still valid for four months, but that didn't stop one TSA person in Boston Logan from advising me to renew it promptly. A university photo ID worked at LaGuardia but didn't pass muster in Boston, so I just figured, use the passport to Syracuse and everyone was happy.

An article in today's WaPo reports on changes in policy that will require US citizens to use passports for all travel in the Americas by 2008 anyway, so Canada's retaliation is rather anticlimactic. The first passport is the worst to get because of the required official copy of one's birth certificate, but passport renewals aren't much trouble.

In this case there's no sense fighting city hall. It's not as bad as having to take off one's shoes and belt and stand on one foot and turn around in the middle of an airline terminal, and that's happened too often.

[tyedyeto]

67. I recall that shortly after the Patriot Act was passed.

that a daughter of a congressman was traveling from Boston to Maine(?) and was asked for her passport. When she questioned the officer about it saying she didn't need a passport to travel within the US, the officer got belligerent with her.

[MountainLaurel]

62. As well they should

Although that'll make it more difficult to sneak across the border when the Republic of Gilead comes to fruition.

[struggle4progress]

68. kick

[LiberallyInclined]

69. so what? if you need it to return, OF COURSE you'll have it when you enter

:crazy:

[mmonk]

70. So what's the real reason

behind this bush iniative?

[burrowowl]

72. Passports cost more

than they did. This is going to hurt the poor, people with large families, getting a passport for everyone, etc.
El Paso and Juarez are very close and families live on both sides of the border. Children from Juarez would go to Loretto Academy, Cathedral, Jesuit in El Paso everyday, this is going to be shitty.