Passports to be req'd to return from Canada, Mexico-AP

[UpInArms]

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/newsfinder/pulseone.asp?dateid=38447.4972128472-833887219&siteID=mktw&scid=0&doctype=806&

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- The State Department will require passports for Americans re-entering the United States from Canada, Mexico, Panama and Bermuda, The Associated Press reported Tuesday, citing unnamed government officials.

...very short newsblurb...

[hippiechick]

1. Guess that means I can't come back then ...

...when I sneak away to Ottawa to meet someone this summer :)


OH DARN. :eyes:

[Robbien]

2. Ha! Illegal immigrants can enter, but citizens can not.

Sounds about right in these times.

[sidpleasant]

5. Will those Minutemen vigilantes start patrolling the US - Canada border?

I'd love to see those 60 year old pot bellied kooks keeping watch on the isolated backwoods upstate NY border with Canada through an Adirondack winter.

[HockeyMom]

27. Potsdam

My daughter recently went to see a friend at SUNY Potsdam. She took the bus from Syracuse. When they got to Potsdam, a trooper stopped the bus, made everyone get off, and asked to see all ID's. She said the border patrol was all over the town and that they would routinely stop people who looked like students and ask to see ID's. She commented that it was worse than being in Penn Station right after 9/11.

[sidpleasant]

36. They're on I-87 all the time

I spend a lot of time in Lake Placid in the winter and thus travel on I-87. There's been a border patrol / state troopers roadblock on that highway for several years, just south of exit 30. They ask you if you're a US citizen and sometimes where you're coming from or going to. It's a dangerous spot; last year a semitruck rear - ended a stopped car waiting in line and killed several people I think.

I can't imagine that this more - or - less permanent roadblock is very productive. Serious smugglers know where it is and can easily avoid it.

[TheFarseer]

23. Exactly what I thought

How the hell is that going to stop illegal immigration? This is a freeking joke.

[Toots]

3. I think we should build us a big Iron Curtain around the US.

I travel back and forth to Canada frequently and this would really suck....It is a way of saying fuck you to Canada and Mexico..

[Bridget Burke]

4. Lots of people down along the Mexican border go back & forth.

Quite legally, I might add. Just another way to get money.

And how many serious terrorists would have problems getting fake passports?

[ixion]

6. "citing unnamed government officials" is attribution in Soviet Russia and

China. It's amazing how far we've fallen in such a short amount of time.

[loudsue]

7. Boy! The tourist industry from Tijuana, Juarez, Matamoros, etc

are going to get a REAL kick in the teeth if this happens. When I was growing up, us high school kids sometimes drove over the Mexican/American border for LUNCH! (our high school was 3 miles from "Mexico") .

Iron curtain, indeed.

[DBoon]

9. payback for the possible election of a leftist in Mexico?

Are we already planning on PAN losing, and kicking the winning leftis in the teeth with this?

[Obamarama]

8. Reading between the lines.....

Why do I have a hunch this is related to a looming probablility of instituting a draft.

If you don't have a passport and wish avoid the draft by going to Canada or Mexico, they'll be able to get you if you try to come back into the country.

If you DO have a passport, and it's one of the new scannable types, then they'll know where to come get you.

Unfortunately, under the Bush Imperial Way of Life, this seems a very plausible strategy.

[beam me up scottie]

10. Maybe a back door to those national id cards.

If we complain about needing passports, that could be their ticket.

[Pachamama]

16. Bingo! You get the Prize! This is their begining of reasoning for the

National "ID" Card....

Up until now, US Citizens had to offer some kind of proof of residency (ie. drivers license) and a birth certificate or marriage license sufficed to be able to enter the US from Canada or Mexico....

But alas, that was before these Neo-con freaks who want to take complete control took over the government....

Yes, this is the first step towards national ID cards.... "See folks, you then don't NEED a Passport! :eyes:

[NYC]

57. There was a time when you didn't need anything to cross the border.

I used to go to Montreal frequently, approx. 30 years ago. Once, a U.S. border guard gave me a hard time because he thought I was Canadian. He took my credit card for a while, made some phone calls, then let me through. This was late at night, and I was in the back seat of a car. He didn't mind the 2 Americans in the front seat.

I used no identification entering Canada (ever), and rarely used it getting back in to the U.S.

[Megahurtz]

26. I agree.

I think this has a lot to do with imposing a draft.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

29. Exactly. That's what I thought when I read the headline.

When do the scannable passports come into effect?

[Obamarama]

39. New electronic passports coming soon....

And it doesn't sound good:

The new U.S. passports will be issued to diplomats and other State Department employees beginning in August. This fall or winter, the government will begin issuing them to everyone who applies for a new or renewed passport. Because most passports are good for 10 years, every passport holder should have the new version by 2016.

Opponents of the plan say the new passports will make Americans more vulnerable abroad. They say terrorists or other criminals could get hold of machines that read the chips from a distance, which could allow them to target tourists and business travelers.

“Terrorists, criminals and kidnappers would be able to easily identify Americans,” the Business Travel Coalition says. “Walking down a hotel corridor, it would be simple to determine in which guest rooms Americans were staying.”

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20050404/a_passports04.art.htm

[DELUSIONAL]

43. So we wrap our passports rather than our heads in tin foil??

It's already too late for me to worry about.

I've had my passport for years and when I was about 13 I had my thumb print on my US Navy Pass and had to show it when I went on and off base.

But enclosing the passport in foil to thwart the crooks is a good idea -- and this includes the Government crooks.

[Pachamama]

11. Wow...this is the first steps folks!

Frankly, given what's going on, if I were to go to Canada or Mexico, and then be "denied" re-entry into the US because I didn't have my passport, I might not be that upset....Canada and Mexico are pretty nice you know?

Note: I think this is really a scary thing....They will cover this as part of the "security" issues, but the reality is that as a US Citizen, I have entered Canada on a Drivers License and returned to the US for many years.

[beam me up scottie]

12. I'm originally from Vermont.

We used to go up there just to get beer.

[LiberallyInclined]

18. a back door to canadian citizenship?

If this goes thru, i'll pack enough clothes for a 3 1/2 year stay, and cross the border into ontario without my passport(or else burn it once i'm in).

beauty plan, eh?

[Pachamama]

32. I wish - but probably more likely is that the Canadian Gov't would require

you to go to the US Embassy/Consulate and get a US Passport "re-issued" in order to enter the US....

But, I fear the day will come where many Americans are going to flood the borders to escape the Neo-cons and my only hope is that the Canadians will welcome us more than we welcome the Mexican and Latin American Immigrants being greeted by "Minutemen"!

[beam me up scottie]

48. That is a very good point.

I still think we should ask Canada to adapt the blue states.
Then we'll make the USOJ citizens get passports to cross our border. (which we would, of course, deny-hee hee):evilgrin:

[tubbacheez]

13. For some citizens, this has always been the case.

My family has always been required to show passports for re-entry. We're all U.S. citizens.

But let's just say we tan easily when we're on vacation.

[Tesha]

14. Having your passport with you...

Having your passport with you has been a good plan for quite
some time now.

Tesha

[Pachamama]

17. I always have it with me....but now that they are putting the RFID chips

in the new ones, I feel like I'm a walking "FastTrak" (you know the devices you have in your car to drive through a toll?)

The Passports coming out in the coming months will have even newer chips embedded in them that with the proper equipment could be scanned and give them any info they want....imagine if someone had the technology that could scan it even when your not at the border and are just walking "by somewhere" :eyes:

[Tesha]

24. RFID is defeated simply by wrapping the ID'd object in foil.

> imagine if someone had the technology that could scan it even when
> your not at the border and are just walking "by somewhere" :eyes:

RFID is defeated simply by wrapping the ID'd object in foil. As the
name says, it's a radio (frequency) technique and aluminum foil will
very effectively block the radio signal either in or out of the tag.

'Kind'a puts a whole new spin on the old jokes about "tinfoil hats" and the like. :tinfoilhat:

Tesha

[Pachamama]

30. Thanks! We'll all be walking around with our "tinfoil" eh?

:tinfoilhat:

Gawd, things are starting to get bizarre, aren't they?

[Megahurtz]

33. Or maybe lead or something?

(Thin soldering lead) Maybe that would work HA!:)

[Tesha]

42. You're looking for good electrical conductivity at RF frequencies.

Thin aluminum or copper foil or thicker lead; no matter.

Just fabricate a "pouch" and keep your passport in it when you're not
deliberately allowing it to be scanned.

(The reading range of a lot of those sorts of RFIDs is really short
anyway; merely putting it in the glove box may be enough.)

Tesha

[LiberallyInclined]

15. papers...let me see your papers...

i'd bet that the majority of people who travel to and fro between the u.s. and canada and mexico don't even have passports. (my parents don't have them)...this will cause a surge of new requests, and probably get the system all backed up- moreso than normal.
and lots of new passports means lots of new passport theft, which means more passports available on the black market, which will benefit the terra-ists.

[spunky]

21. Also a good way to get more people's thumbprints/eye scans.

I'm 27 and have had the opportunity to leave the country (except to go to Canada) and so I don't have a passport. I've been dreading getting one because I don't want them to get all that info on me. But now you can't even go to Canada without one, so more people will get them and they will have more of our thumbprints/eye scans.

Plus, it really does help get us used to the idea of a national ID that you would have to present on demand to any government official who asks for it. . .

. . .or maybe I've just read too much sci-fi.

[LiberallyInclined]

25. eye scan?

when did they start doing eye scans as part of the process? I don't recall getting one when i last got my passport.

[spunky]

28. Aren't eye scans part of the quickie route through security at airports

etc?

I just assumed that you would have the option of signing up on that list when you get your passport. Lots of people would do it, I would think, just because they aren't paranoid and think it might save them time in the future. . .

Of course that would require installing the equpment at post offices etc., but hey, they've got until 2008, and they don't seem to care how high they run up the deficit, so its a possibility. . .

[LiberallyInclined]

31. I wouldn't know...

the last time i flew was before 09-11-2001.

[illflem]

19. Good idea to have a passport even if you don't need it

Good to have the means to escape the madness here rapidly if it ever comes down

[HereSince1628]

20. I am guessing it brings our policy on all American countries

into line.

Anyone know if visits to the countries from central American and the Carribean not appearing on the list already require a passport on return?

[Megahurtz]

22. They're trying to trap us.

What else?:shrug:

[ninty]

34. In the paper this morning they had the Canadian perspective

...since I live in Canada. It was on the front page too if I remember correctly.

They were saying how it would be harder for Canadians to get into the US. No more good ol days of giving them your drivers license. The article was saying that drivers licenses and birth certificates do not have the technology to prove you are this person, so it was suggested that some sort of card with the ability to store biometrics may be required in the future to validate a persons identity. Wonderful.

Here's the article if anyone is interested:

http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=817b4866-3ef2-43d6-a5df-186e78c46c6b

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. So the picture on my driver's license

isn't enough to prove I am who I say I am?

[psychopomp]

35. It's an international border

That we did not have to use passports is what is surprising.

Mexico and Canada are big countries, just like the US. It is not like an Italian entering the Vatican City.

[Bigmack]

37. It's all about control.

The people in Power really only care about control. They want to control our sex lives, our births, our deaths, our religions.... everything.

The borders - north and south - have always been, and will continue to be porous.

"They" just want to control us. They won't change... I think it's built into their personalities, so the only way to freedom is to dump those assholes in charge.

[zipplewrath]

38. I'd be surprised if this is literal

I'm not sure what authority they'd have to actually carry this out. As a US citizen, you have a RIGHT to enter. Without "due process" they cannot deny you this right. They can make it down right painful of course. But if you are able to establish your identity and citizenship, by any verifiable means, it would seem that ultimately they'd have to let you in. This is part of a larger attempt to get everyone to have an ID. But the subtlety is that passports are issued by the State Department. Homeland Security would almost assuredly take on any "national ID" effort. They can easily establish that each resident much establish their nationality (even at birth) and at that time, as part of the process, an national ID would be issued. The card itself would only be a convenience. What they would have usurped, was the state function of basically birth, death, and citizenship establishment. They'd have your biometrics from birth. All federally related benefits and interactions (draft, social security, Pell grants) will be connected to this activity. Ultimately states would be encouraged to connect their activity as well (school admission including college, drivers license, etc.) They'll even sell it as a "protection" as in being able to "defend" you against identity theft since they'd have biometrics.

Basically you have to view all actions of this "states rights" administration as being an effort to federalize all aspects of the economy and law enforcement.

[psychopomp]

41. How do you prove you are a US citizen?

With a passport. Heeello!

"I'm not sure what authority they'd have to actually carry this out. As a US citizen, you have a RIGHT to enter. Without "due process" they cannot deny you this right."

[zipplewrath]

52. That's one way

Traditionally, a certified birth certificate and a photo ID was sufficient. Voter registration was another.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. So a driver's license doesn't prove I am

a US citizen?

[tabasco]

45. Big Brother doesn't care about due process.

That should be apparent to everyone by now. The republicans, who used to cry about the oppressive power of the central government, have now become the greatest enablers of a strong central state.

They dumbed down enough people to be manipulated, now they are pursuing their true agenda. A nation friendly to corporations but oppressive to the People.

Due process died the day the "Patriot" Act was passed.

[sybylla]

40. Doesn't go into effect until 2006 and will be phased in over a year

at different entry points according to this article at the Globe and Mail http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050405.wpass0405/BNStory/National/


Time to Get a Passport
Tuesday, April 5, 2005 Updated at 12:51 PM EST
Canadian Press

Toronto — Canadians travelling to the United States will be required to show a passport or other so-called “secure document” when crossing the border beginning at the end of 2006, a federal government source confirmed Tuesday.

Canadians will also continue, however, to be the only citizens exempt from a U.S. program that requires foreign visitors to be fingerprinted on entry into the U.S.

“That program is not changing, (and) that's important,” the source said.

“Even with this (passport) scheme being announced, Canadians will be exempt from the fuller scheme.”

<snip>

[ronnykmarshall]

44. What about boarder cities?

Tijuana is huge tourist spot for people visting San Diego. I wonder how they will make exceptions for bordering cities.

[HockeyMom]

50. Ditto Niagara Falls

[EBK]

46. Here come da Draft !!

I agree 100% with KzooDem.

Keeping track of people who are supposed to be here, as opposed to those who aren`t is of much more importance.


When the draft does come, illegals can go into any INS office and say "you caught me, send me back." "I won`t resist." (and get a free lunch)

OR

Who will do the work in this country when our men are fighting in the middle east? Hmmmmm ?

When they do institute the draft it is going to be BIG. Every general has said we need A LOT of troops for this madness.

[Fleshdancer]

47. I hope this won't be used in anyway to stop people from buying medicine

from over the border. Many Americans can't afford American prices.

[saigon68]

49. That's one reason The Bush Criminals Payoff to the DRUG COMPANIES

As in hey Grandma --- you don't need no Stinking Prescription.

[Mr.Green93]

51. Wish we could

get millions on both sides of the borders to crash through and just destroy the concept of U.S. borders.

[ninty]

53. I don't know if thats such a good idea

I bet the current administration would like very much to have access to all of North Americas resources and advantages.

No offence, but i'm glad there is a border.

[caligirl]

56. So Americans will need exit visas now? Casablanca style

[screembloodymurder]

58. You mean I can stay.

Oh Canada!

[mmonk]

59. Well, if it's just too difficult to get back...............

[leesa]

60. Ooh...a little punishment for Canada and Mexico for uppity behavior

[lynne]

61. That was strongly recommended last spring -

- when we went to Canada. We did get passports, though they weren't required at that time. The thought was that it would prevent delays in our returning to the U.S. should there be a security issue in the states.

[alfredo]

62. Travel Restrictions. To be able to travel you will have to submit to

the passport song and dance. Nobody is going to be able to go to those countries without a passport, that is unless they want to be barred from returning.


That's a hell of a lot easier than telling us we will need permission to travel outside the US.

[Moderator]

63. kick to combine

[liveoaktx]

64. Crossing the border will require a passport (into Mexico & Canada)

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/rssstory.mpl/metropolitan/3120459

Texans will be required to carry a passport or other specialized documents to enter Mexico beginning in 2008 under a border-tightening measure announced Tuesday
....
Currently, Texans typically can cross the border for a short visit carrying nothing more than a Texas driver's license, according to Steve Ahlenius, president of the McAllen Chamber of Commerce.

"This is going to create a bottleneck along the border," Ahlenius said. "It's going to devastate business."
.....The program, known as the Western Hemisphere Trade Initiative, was approved by Congress last year as part of terrorism-fighting legislation. Officials promised to try to fine-tune the program that affects both the Canadian and the Mexican borders with the United States.

[TahitiNut]

65. In Detroit and Windsor, the tunnel and bridge will be nightmares.

All my life, transit into Canada has been far easier than coming back into the U.S. Of all the international borders I've crossed, re-entering the U.S. has always been the most time-consuming and oppressive. Crossing European borders was the most disappointing to me, since I found it difficult to get the border guards to even look at my passport let alone stamp it for the memories.

[ChickMagic]

66. I've found the same thing

When I went to Mexico 20 years ago, it was a snap. No problem. But when I got back to the US, I got major hairy eyeballs from the customs people. They went through everything and I mean everything. I had a couple of sealed packs of cigarettes (American) and they opened them and inspected every single one. It was very intimidating even then.

[LibDemAlways]

68. Will also screw things up at the Canadian border.

There's a train that runs from Seattle up to Vancouver as well as a day ferry between the city and Victoria - very popular with tourists. Some of the car ferries between northern WA state and Canada make stops in the San Juan Islands which are part of Wash. state. This is going to put a major damper on BC tourism and may impact tourism within Wash. as well.

Southern Californians are always running down to Baja, too. This will be devastating for Tijuana and Ensenada .

Sounds to me like a ploy by the US gvnt. to generate some revenue by forcing people to get passports in order to make even short trips across the border. Pretty damn ridiculous.

[emc]

67. another point

How better to curb people going over the border to get their medicine---I live 20 miles from Mexican border and everyday its Americans going across to get glasses, dental work and medicine----with passports this will mostly dry up---most are not going to take the time to get a passport so who benefits---the big drug companies---you don't even have to pass legislation----how about that?????

[chlamor]

69. kick