Pope's condition worsens

[Roon]

http://abcnews.go.com/?CMP=EMC-1396

[maddezmom]

1. AP link here: Pope's Condition Reportedly Worsens

Pope's Condition Reportedly Worsens

4 minutes ago Europe - AP



VATICAN CITY - Pope John Paul II's medical condition has worsened, the Italian news agency Apcom reported Thursday night, citing unidentified sources. The Vatican had no immediate comment on the report.
Apcom said doctors had to intervene because of a "worrying lowering of (blood) pressure."


The news agency also said the pope reportedly had a high fever.


A Vatican official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said he was unaware of such a worsening in the pontiff's health and that at least a few hours ago, the pope's situation was "regular."


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=3&u=/ap/20050331/ap_on_re_eu/pope&sid=84439559

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Time to meet you maker

Pope John Paul. Too bad, you could have been such a great pope.

[rainbow4321]

18. And to meet Terri...

she may be requesting his presence to have a WORD or two with him...

[kitty1]

92. The Pope has requested that he be kept alive by artificial

means through his living will. What I don't understand, is why the Pope and Catholic doctrine profess the preservation of natural existence at all costs. A beating heart and an airway are all that is necessary now to keep an individual in the earthly realm. Even though their spirit or essence is not really there anymore. If the Pope believes in the glorious after life with christ, where we are to be whole and at peace, why would he take such extreme measures to remain as a functioning shell here on earth when his time is clearly up. That is not truly life in Christ. When a tube is all there is between a person and their spritual release, the decision should be a no brainer (pardon the pun) here.

[okoboji]

95. yes ....

What the hell is he thinking? or is it others that are thinking for him?

Look .... it's not as if the guy is in his 40's with many more years ahead of him. He's 85 years old.

My grandmother is the same age. She is very healthy, walks about a mile a day with her dog. Her vision isn't the best, because of macular degeneration, But she hears well. And even she herself says she is ready for the next world. And no, she is not suicidal. She does have a living will, is catholic, and does not want to be kept alive artifically under any circumstance.

btw ... her favorite South Park episode (if you can believe this) is the one where the grandfather tries to get Stan to kill him becasue he is 110 years old and wants to die.. and the grandfather keeps calling Stan, Billy... Out of no where somedays, my grandmother will say ... "Kill me Billy" and I say back ... "but grandma, my name isn't Billy." and then we laugh

[genius]

29. He was the best Pope they ever had. I hope he pulls through

He stood up against Bush. He has a lot of courage.

[VegasWolf]

38. Huh? Where do you pull this stuff from. n/t

[Rufus T. Firefly]

42. Spreading freedom

Inspiring Communist Poland to become free, for starters.

[VegasWolf]

73. Right. Pope John did that by bankrupting the Russian empire huh? n/t

[barb162]

93. I think Gorbachov ran out of money and that's one of the principal

reasons the USSR split up and also he thought things just weren't working. I know this is an enormous simplification but we can't write a book here.

[rodeodance]

52. he was my pope and I agree (I do not agree with his social

ethics)-but he was strongly opposed to invading Irag

[VegasWolf]

76. If I had remained a Catholic, he would have been mine too. n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

68. Historically, or just as far back as you can personally remember?

[barb162]

94. He did do that on Iraq didn't he? Good point. He has gotten on

my nerves about overpopulation though ( his attitude seems to be more souls for Christ, the more the merrier). He has also gotten on my nerves about his lack of attention to the pedophile priests in this country.

[WMliberal]

3. Hear Bill Maher's joke a few weeks ago?

Rehnquist is so ill that this week the Pope will be filling in for him.

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

4. MSNBC: Pope's condition worsening

High fever and low blood pressure. No link yet.

[Deep13]

5. Time to watch for white smoke.

Hope they pick someone who is more reform minded, like a Vatican Gorbachev, if you excuse the analogy.

[Terran]

21. Don't worry, they won't

Not if Ratzinger has anything to do with it. The Vatican will continue to be an impediment to progress, not a supporter of it.

Note that the above is a criticism of the institution of the Roman Catholic Church, not of Jesus, God or Catholics.

[Book Lover]

22. That will not happen

The next Pope will be more "conservative" (ie, hard-line and authoritarian within the Church) than the current one.

[progressiveBadger]

33. I know many priests who hope for the same thing

But if anyone is hoping for female priests, I doubt it's going to happen. The argument in the states for female priests has to do with a shortage of priests here in the US. But we are alone in that shortage, and Rome is oh so far away.

[despairing optimist]

83. Not much chance for that. John Paul had more than 25 years

to stack the College of Cardinals with conservatives in his own image. The hierarchy will likely fall more and more out of touch with the laity. They might as well revert to using Latin for all church functions. That may be coming. I'll drop it in the suggestion box behind the Bernini altar in St. Peter's.

[rainbow4321]

7. Uh-oh---Terri S, Pope, (Falwell??) n/t

[HockeyMom]

14. Death in Three's?

My Grandma always used to say that.

[all.of.me]

17. yup - they always come in 3's....

[VegasWolf]

39. I guess no one else died this week huh? Superstitious bunch. n/t

[Matilda]

87. Prince Rainier?

n/t

[Renew Deal]

50. God thought about Falwell, but said no.

The Lord knows. O8)

[fortyfeetunder]

98. I thought we had Terri, Johnnie and...

a third to be coming up shortly...

[MADem]

54. He has a raging UTI--bad catheter, maybe? n/t

[rainbow4321]

61. Could be urinary retention related..

Catheters can lead to UTI's but so can a bunch of other factors...urinary retention <bladder never totally emptying> can lead to it, also...and someone may not find out they have urinary retention til it is too late and infection hits. With retention, someone may find that they have to go frequently but that is also something that elderly may go thru even withOUT an infection.

Of course, that isn't stopping the people at MSNBC from offering the hospital aquired theory <no other theory BUT the hospital theory is being offered up...nice going, guys, blame the hospital>.

[Roland99]

6. MSNBC Link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7263878/

[rsmith6621]

8. FoxCrapNews Link

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152088,00.html

[rainbow4321]

9. Fever from a UTI?

Urinary tract infection, per MSNBC.

UTI's can take a BAD, bad toll on the elderly...sepsis sets in pretty damn quick...IV antibiotics, hospital stay, etc...

[megatherium]

48. You betcha. I've had a UTI, and ran a high fever.

It felt like a bad flu -- achy, tired -- combined with the urinary discomfort. Not fun. Fortunately, ciprofloxin made short work of the UTI. (Actually, what I had was a bladder infection on top of a chronic prostate infection; my urologist had me take the cipro for a year to burn out the chronic prostate infection. Worked, my plumbing has been fine for the 9 years since.)

[NEDem]

57. My 90 yr old neighbor died from a UTI

[rainbow4321]

62. We see sooo elderly w/ UTI related problems..

they come in totally confused, BP low, cardiac distress, multi system problems..diagnosis comes back "UTI". The infection effects the elderly so much worse than the general population. For most us it is just a matter of popping a few antibiotics to get relief...for them, it easily turns into a hospital stay w/ IV antibiotics, etc...
Still amazes me when I see their condition and the diagnosis "UTI"

[sabra]

10. MSNBC: "Vatican says pope has very high fever caused by urinary infection"

[HamdenRice]

11. Catholic pro life fundies will go bezerk ...

if the Pope dies on the same day as Terri. It will be seen as a sign from God.

[rainbow4321]

12. Oh. My. God.

Oh, man...shrub could invade 10 more countries by midnight and we will never hear about it <image: scrolling along the bottom of your TV screen: "Bush calls takeover of Europe successful" during non-stop live news reports from the Vatican, the Fla. hospice, then the Vatican, then the Fla medical examiners office, then dueling Schindler/Schiavo news conferences>.

[paula777]

13. I was just thinking the same thing ....

[LiberalEsto]

15. It's probably tomorrow in Italy already

but you have a point there

[Zynx]

16. I think it's plus 6 hours or so.

[all.of.me]

19. they are 9 hours ahead of us until we change our clocks

[Democrats_win]

32. Today in History: Spanish Inquisition, 1492, Jews expelled from Spain

Any connection?

http://www.historychannel.com/tdih/tdih.jsp?category=general&month=10272955&day=10272996

[theHandpuppet]

63. The History Channel just ran a series on the Spanish Inquisition

... and just how many thousands of innocents, including Jews and women accused of withcraft, were murdered in the name of the Holy Mother Church. The history of the church is written in blood -- they really have gall talking about the "sanctity of life". Tell that to the millions of native peoples who have been the victims of their righteous genocide.

I do believe that during one period of the Inquisition over 2,000 Jews were executed by burning at the stake, a horrible way to die.

[Walt Starr]

20. From the sounds of it, he may have contracted pneumonia from the

nasal feeding tube which is common. Unfortunately, it's not a good thing for a man in his 80's.

:(

[Zynx]

23. He's not long for this world.

I hope that his last moments may be painless.

[adigal]

24. They will just stuff him and drive him around in his

Pope-mobile for a while, until they figure out a successor. (I am Catholic - so I can make fun of this) Either that, or they will pretend he died today/tonight so that he and Terri can be holy martyrs together.

[spunky]

25. CNN saying he has been given last rites, breaking news, no link.

He must be very close to the end.

[Logiola]

26. Pope John Paul II has been given the last rites

Pope John Paul II has been given the last rites of the Roman Catholic Church as his health deteriorates, a Vatican source tells CNN.

HEADLINE AT www.cnn.com

[babylonsister]

27. But for the ninth time, it DOESN'T mean he's dying.

So what does it mean? :shrug:

[catlawyer]

49. Wikipedia reference

Anointing of the Sick
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
(Redirected from Last rites)

The Anointing of the Sick is one of the sacraments of the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and some Protestant churches.

The former name Extreme Unction was used in the Western (Roman) part of the Catholic Church from the end of the twelfth century until the Second Vatican Council, and was never popular in the Eastern (Orthodox) part. Last Rites is a common but misleading term; the Anointing of the Sick can be received as often as the believer desires and should not be postponed until death is thought to be near, nor is its administration intended to imply an expectation that the recipient is about to die. At one time in history, the sacrament was reserved until death was believed to be imminent, in order to reduce the possibility of the sick person committing further sins after its administration. However, since the Second Vatican Council this is no longer the case.

More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_rites

[Coventina]

28. crikey! What a day this has been!

Here's hoping that his passing is peaceful, and a man of wisdom is chosen to replace him.

[Joe the Revelator]

37. Even though i had a problem with some of his policies.....

I wish him no ill will. Hopefully if he dies, he dies peacefully. He seemed like a very nice old man. I hate to see him suffer.

[ronnykmarshall]

46. I don't agree with him a lot as well.

But I have respect and love for the Pope.

He stood up to *'s war and that's big one in my book.

Seeing him in person was moment I'll never forget. It was 1987 when he visited SF. It was just for a quick moment he turned off Market St to Dolores St in the Pope-mobile. But it was very moving for me.

It pained me to see him trying to speak the other day. This is a man that speaks multiple languages and his own voice is now failing him.

Peace be with you Giano Paulo.

[piece sine]

84. those of us who have been in his presence

know there was an energy there around him. I actually shoke his hand in a receiving line in Washington. I'll never forget it.

[ronnykmarshall]

90. Amazing

Just seeing him drive by, I felt an incredible feeling of joy and love.

I started crying after I saw him.

[dave29]

30. Pope Given Last Rights

per email from CNN.

Pope John Paul II has been given the last rites of the Roman Catholic Church as his health deteriorates, a Vatican source tells CNN.

Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com for the latest news.
More Americans watch CNN. More Americans trust CNN.

[genius]

31. He stood up to Bush. I hope he pulls through.

[deacon2]

40. Congressional team en route! n/t

[MADem]

55. Interesting--MSNBC has a reporter in front of St Peter's

...who just said no last rites have been given.

[CubsFan1982]

34. Pope given last rites -- CNN Breaking

Top of this page: http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/31/rainier.health/index.html

[Cush]

35. on CNN now

[candy]

36. Thanks---

Prayers for a speedy recovery or a happy death,as my old pastor used to say.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

41. Vatican source: Pope given last rites

Ailing pontiff suffers from high fever with urinary tract infection

Thursday, March 31, 2005 Posted: 4:56 PM EST (2156 GMT)


The pope tried to speak Wednesday, but his words were not clear.


VATICAN CITY (CNN) -- Pope John Paul II was given the last rites of the Roman Catholic Church late Thursday night as his health deteriorated, a Vatican source has told CNN.

The sacrament does not necessarily mean that the pope is dying. Last rites -- also known as the sacrament of anointing the sick -- are commonly given to people who are seriously ill as well. The pope received the sacrament after he was shot by a would-be assassin in 1981.

The pope is suffering from a high fever caused by a urinary tract infection, the Vatican confirmed earlier Thursday -- one day after revealing he had been put on a nasal feeding tube for nutrition.

The pope is taking antibiotics, a Vatican spokesman said.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/31/pope1/index.html

[kysrsoze]

43. They'll have him hooked up to a heart and lung machine soon enough

with the feeding tube up his nose. He will be worshipped as a new religious idol. The dead yet alive pope will then be considered resurrected from the dead.

I feel bad for this man. I haven't agreed with him on a number of things, but he tried to do what he thought was right. If they hook him up to a bunch of machines, it will be very sick. I hope he dies peacefully.

[retnavyliberal]

79. Do you think the College of Cardinals will allow that?

No way. JP2 will not linger on machines. The Cardinals want his job.

[Javaman]

44. Holy smoke!!!

That's were the expression comes from, when they have the smoke come out of the vaticans chimney. I think when the pope croaks it's gray but I'm not sure.

[Mz Pip]

45. I don't know exactly what

happens when he dies but the gray smoke comes out when the Cardinals vote and don't pick a pope. They mix the ballots with some water and burn them and the smoke is gray. It comes out white when they have chosen a new pope. Then everybody cheers.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Sean Reynolds]

71. They ring a bell when the Pope dies.

[rodeodance]

53. are you for real?

[Javaman]

58. Yeah, believe it or not.

If you had even the smallest of catholic upbringings, the part about the smoke was always big stuff. A new pope! A new pope!...big deal.

[Sean Reynolds]

72. When the Pope dies, a bell is rung.

Not exactly sure how many times though.

[XemaSab]

82. I'm waiting for the smoke

from uh... somewhere else.

(self censor)


Hi Agent Mike!

[gardenista]

47. I hope that he goes quickly and painlessly, if it is his time.

I heard him described as "sernely surrendering" to God's will for him. I hope that is what happens, and that God takes him quickly.

[rodeodance]

51. abc: Pope recieves last sacrament (vatican not confirm)

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=630304
Pope Has Very High Fever, Says Vatican
Reuters

Mar 31, 2005 — By Philip Pullella and Crispian Balmer

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope John Paul is suffering from a very high fever caused by a urinary infection, the Vatican said on Thursday.

The Pope, leader of the world's 1.1 billion Roman Catholics and widely dubbed the "Great Communicator" at the height of his papacy when he traveled the globe, was receiving "appropriate antibiotic therapy," it said in a statement.


"The Holy Father was today stricken by a very high fever provoked by what has been ascertained to be an infection of the urinary tract … The clinical situation is being closely watched by the Vatican medical team treating him."

There were unconfirmed Italian media reports the 84-year-old Pope had received a sacrament in which the sick and dying are anointed with special oils. The Vatican had no comment.

[Renew Deal]

56. Who was around when the last pope died?

What happened?

[seriousstan]

59. He was buried and they elected a new one.

Pope John Paul 1 was Pope for just 33 days.

[Renew Deal]

60. Is there a major ceremony or is it quiet?

Where do they bury Pope's?

[Danmel]

64. At the Vatican of course

I believe they have a special place for such internments.

When Pope Paul died, my friend Loretta (who went to St. Bernards and St Edmunds called me to ask how they pick a new Pope. I said, hey Loretta, I went to the Rabbi Harry Halpern day school, why re you asking me? She said "cause you read the paper!" And of course, she was right, I knew!

They convene the college of Cardinals and after the week or so long period of Mourning and burial, they get together and vote until they have a new Pope. If they can't decide, they burn the ballots the smoke is dark. When they decide, they throw water on the fire and the smoke is white and they say "Abemus Papum" (We have a Pope!)

That said, I am sad that John Paul II has suffered so much. As a Jewish woman, I can say he is the first Pope that I ever felt didn't hate Jews and want us all dead or converted.

I hope when his time comes, it is peaceful. It think we should try to show a little bit of respect for the man. He is after all human being and we after all are liberals who are tolerant, and caring and not hateful and creepy, right?

[MADem]

81. Photo of his tomb, off in the corner

[Princess Turandot]

101. Under St. Peter's Basilica in Rome, there are burial crypts

for the Popes. It will be a major ceremony.

[zanne]

70. I was in grammar school.

The nuns cried, we had to stay silent all day, and we had the next day off.

[MADem]

80. Some say he was.....

.....(dramatic music).....MURDERED!!!!!!

JP the First was a GREAT GUY!!! A bit too liberal for the church, though. He loved his pasta and a bit of wine, thought women should have a greater role in the church, questioned the ban on divorce, thought there should be discussion of priests marrying...next thing you know, he got sick REAL QUICK, and died. To this day some believe he was poisoned for his views.

ON EDIT: Some photos of 'the smiling pope,' who lasted only 33 days:

[Matilda]

89. He also, perhaps even more importantly, wanted the Church to divest

itself of some of its enormous wealth in the form of jewelled plate,
etc., and also to open an investigation into the running of the
Vatican Bank. That must have sent shock waves through large sections
of the Vatican hierarchy.

I don't think he was actually murdered (though I'm not 100% sure
about that), but I think he was probably allowed to die after
suffering an aneurism.

I've been uneasy about the Vatican ever since.

[MADem]

102. Vatican says it was a heart attack that did Albino in

I smelled a rat, frankly, but we will never know for sure.

JP1's pastoral focus included not only the divesture you noted, but also requiring richer churches to support poorer ones. He was a pastoral kinda guy, and way too liberal (it's what happens when you are raised by a couple of socialists) for the heirarchy. He also loved English literature and was quite the expert on Mark Twain.

Who knows what might have happened had he lived? I'll bet there would not have been so many fallen-away Catholics, and I'll bet the creepy priests would have been dispensed with.

[Danmel]

91. As I recall they called him "The Smiling Pope"

Lots of people believe he was offed. He lasted, what, a month?

[ronnykmarshall]

96. The smiling Pope

I was shocked when he died so quickly.

[fortyfeetunder]

99. It was Pope John Paul I

And he was Pope not long, maybe for a month or so before he suddenly died. We barely knew him.

[XemaSab]

65. Pope gets last rites

Pope John Paul II was given the last rites of the Roman Catholic Church late Thursday night as his health deteriorated, a Vatican source has told CNN.

The sacrament does not necessarily mean that the pope is dying. Last rites -- also known as the sacrament of the sick or extreme unction -- are commonly given to people who are seriously ill as well.

The pope is suffering from a high fever caused by a urinary tract infection, the Vatican confirmed earlier Thursday -- one day after revealing he had been put on a nasal feeding tube for nutrition.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/31/pope1/index.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. Not trying to be cynical but do they come in threes?

[neuvocat]

67. QUICK!!! SOMEONE GET CONGRESS TO STOP THIS!!!

[dhinojosa]

75. Zing!!!!!!! eom

[zanne]

69. I've always wondered...

What's "unction"?

[Henny Penny]

74. unction...

I think this means to anoint with oil, and if someone is described as unctuous it means that they are oily.

[dhinojosa]

77. Have you heard of the internet?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=unction

:sarcasm:

[pelagius]

78. It means anointing with oil..

...and comes from the same Latin root as the words "unguent" (ointment) and "unctuous" (excessively smooth in speech or manner, "oily")

[Cornczech]

85. Well....

I am not even a catholic...and I can say that I respect the guy....but nobody lives forever and I hope he doesn't suffer much and that he finally gets the answers to all the question, (if there's even anything other than the big nothing waiting after our final gasp...)

D-

[Tempest]

86. Vatican source: Pope given last rites

Pontiff in 'serious' condition but responding to antibiotics

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/31/pope1/index.html

Pope John Paul II's condition remained "serious" early Friday, but he appeared to be responding well to antibiotic treatment for a urinary tract infection that caused him to develop a fever, a Vatican official said.

Thursday night, as his health deteriorated, the pontiff was given the last rites of the Roman Catholic Church, a Vatican source told CNN.

The sacrament does not necessarily mean that the pope is dying. Last rites -- also known as the sacrament of the sick or extreme unction -- are commonly given to people who are seriously ill as well.

<more>

[Cornczech]

88. UTI's can lead to

kidney infections, if untreated...and that is NOT a good thing...but..pardon my evilness here (and I mean no offense to anyone but Falwell with this rant....) I hope that UTI (or whatever put him in the hospital) hurts in proportion to any lie he has told in his life that had the word "god" attached to it.......

mighty painful I might think.....

(sorry...I thought I was responding to someone who was writing about Jerry Falwell being ill...I hope the POPE dies in peace...and that Jerry FALWELL does not....)

[cal04]

97. Pope's condition very serious: Vatican

POPE John Paul II suffered a heart attack and his condition was "very serious", Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said today. "Following a urinary tract infection, septic shock and a cardiocirculatory collapse occurred," Mr Navarro-Valls said.

The 84-year-old pontiff was given the last rites yesterday, Italian media reported.

Mr Navarro-Valls said the Pope had been given the Holy Viaticum – communion reserved for those close to death – and had decided himself not to go to hospital for treatment.

The statement said the Pope had received cardio-respiratory assistance yesterday and this morning was still "conscious, lucid and tranquil".

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12721451%255E1702,00.html

[Name removed]

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