MSNBC: A Democratic dark horse poised to emerge

[mountebank]

WASHINGTON - Wisconsin Sen. Russ Feingold, a blunt Midwestern maverick who isn't afraid to defy his party, is perfectly placed to make the kind of impression that gets a run for the presidential nomination off to a quick start.

snip

Even before then he'll be in the spotlight. Next week the Judiciary Committee will begin hearings on extension of expiring provisions in the USA Patriot Act. Feingold was the only senator to vote against it in 2001.

snip

In a rebuff to President Clinton, he also voted against the 1993 North American Free Trade Agreement.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7326869/

I've always liked him.... But still don't know much about him (even after reading the article, which is typical of MSM news). Only senator against the Patriot Act. From Wisconsin. Maverick progessive. Now let's hear some reasons why not....

[alittlelark]

1. A dark horse... carrying a knight in shining armor

I can visualize that one!

He is 'with' no party. He makes choices and legislation from his instincts and logic.

[Ken Burch]

3. Russ could do it...He could blow Jeb's bloated ass off the map!

We need a fighter for a change.

And we need someone who knows how to win without massive campaign donations.

[politicasista]

8. Nice to use another Dem to slam a former nominee.

:bounce:

[alittlelark]

19. "we need someone who knows how to win without massive

campaign donations" HUH ?

What we need is someone who can energize the base enough to elicit massive campaign donations from the little guys. We're not gonna get any campaign reform before 2008. The corporations are gonna bankroll the R's.

Gotta look at this REALISTICALLY.

[Ken Burch]

37. So we should nominate Hillary.

And give us eight more years that are certain to be indistinguishable from 1993-2001.

Enjoy trying to get progressives not to vote Green when that one goes down.

[JohnnyBoots]

50. The wing-nuts and the south see her

the same way we see Ann Coulter I would think.

[chomskysright]

93. hILLARY WILL LOSE THE ELECTION as ....

SHE IS NOT TRUSTED; she is disliked by many; and I have to say that she sure is holding her finger up a lot, tryhing to figure out which way the wind is blowing....

[Massacure]

28. Jeb has a snowballs chance in hell of winning the nomination.

[Ken Burch]

36. Well, ok, Feingold could beat any potential GOP nominee.

And I wasn't slamming any particular past nominee. I was attacking the general Democratic pattern since the days of Tony Coelho of going after corporate money and not fighting for principles.

Going after massive donations has always ended up giving us people who stood for nothing. When you get the big money, you no longer have principles. End of discussion.

Except for Clinton(who would have won without moving right)no Democrat has achieved anything with this strategy.

I'm saying we need to be a fighting people's party again, rather than stay in the old rut.

Do you disagree.

[retnavyliberal]

89. You can expect a economic fall right after the '06 election....

which will keep a lot of the non-corporate money tied up with frivolous stuff like food and shelter.

[Ken Burch]

91. Good to know. But does that

argue against Russ?

[retnavyliberal]

92. No, but it means that it will be harder to depend just on individual $.

[NewJeffCT]

48. why not?

Why does Jeb not have a chance of winning? I'm sure in 1999, nobody thought * had a chance of winning it, either.

[bearfan454]

78. Diebold says he DOES have a chance of winning.

We have no say over any election until the vote stealing is fixed.

[mb7588a]

31. WOOHOOO!

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

Beat the Feingold drum, little green dudes, BEAT IT.

[Born Free]

40. makes no difference

As with any great democratic candidate, he will get close but the GOP will just barely win with upsets in areas where they use black box voting and "unreliable" exit pools will be wrong as usual. However, it's great to keep a good attitude, continue to believe the system is working and people really are making the decisions, continue to blame democrats for not being "moral" enough ect.

[trogdor]

46. Well, my impression is, he's better than Joementum.

More reliable, in any case. I guess common sense is more often on our side than on theirs. Anyway, the ability to look beyond politics in one's decision-making (in other words, thinking outside the box) is an admirable quality one should expect in a President. Russ would do a fine job.

The other side of the coin would be, who would be taking over his seat? Do we really need to be turning over yet another Senate seat to the Republicans, like we did in North Carolina last year? We'd better be reasonably sure that seat would stay in Democratic hands. I have more reason to be optimistic when it comes to Wisconsin than I do the southeastern US.

[mb7588a]

75. We have a dem.

governor in WI, Gov. Doyle, who would appoint another dem, assuming he himself can win in '06. right now he's got a big $$$ advantage.

[femme.democratique]

2. I'd certainly vote for him. Good brain there.

[ewagner]

4. I'm a selfish Wisconsinite

I like Russ right where he is thank you......

[Beetwasher]

58. LOL! You Selfish Bastard!

I don't blame you though, he's a hell of a guy...

[KlatooBNikto]

5. I wonder if he had any connections to Sen.William Proxmire, a great

Wisconsin Democrat.

[babylonsister]

6. Sharing the wealth:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1695614&mesg_id=1695614

[cal04]

7. I don't know much about him either. I was just reading this

Feingold: GOP drunk with power
U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold says the national Republican Party is failing to provide responsible leadership and that Democrats must focus on jobs and regaining Southern support to win back the White House.
"I think the Republicans are intoxicated with power," Feingold, D-Wis., told editors and reporters of the Montgomery Advertiser on Tuesday. Feingold was touring downtown Montgomery on Tuesday and was scheduled to head up Interstate 65 to meet with residents of Shelby County.


RUSS FEINGOLD

Age: 52

Hometown: Middleton, a suburb of Madison, Wis.

Education: Bachelor's degree, University of Wisconsin, 1975; Rhodes Scholar, Oxford University, 1977; Juris Doctorate, Harvard Law School, 1979

Career: Attorney, 1979 to 1983; Wisconsin state senate, 1982 to 1992; college professor, 1985 to 1993; beginning third term in the U.S. Senate

Wife: Mary

Religious faith: Jewish

Source: The Almanac of American Politics

The senator was in Greenville on Monday trying to mend fences with residents after causing an uproar with some comments he made to the on-line magazine Salon.

In a Salon article, Feingold described Greenville as "the reddest spot" on the presidential election map and made references to check-cashing stores, trailer parks and "rundown" car lots. He was in Greenville in November playing a round at the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail.


http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/NEWSV5/storyV5onfeingold30.htm

[pstans]

9. In Russ we trust!

I think Feingold is exactly the type of candidate that Dean wants to run and knows can win.


Feingold-Obama in 08!

[grannylib]

11. OH now there's a ticket. Wow.

[merh]

13. Feingold/Boxer '08

That should be the ticket! :bounce:

[Protagoras]

34. I'd love any combination of the above 3

nt

[Xithras]

59. I'd worry about Boxer

I'm sure that she'd do a great job as VP, but with the way the Repubs have been acting here in California I'd be worried that her senate seat might go to a Republican if she vacated it. Remember, if she leaves before her term is up, Ahnold gets to appoint a replacement.

[merh]

70. 2008 - That is a ways away - losing the seat is not the concern

If you are worried about California, find a new governor. When does the weight pumper run for re-election? Get rid of that nutt case.

[ozone_man]

71. That sounds good to me.

I need to find out more about both, but I like what I've heard so far. And it's time to have a woman on the ticket. A pair of real Democrats.

[serryjw]

101. Excellent ticket

that one may keep me from voting Green

[candy331]

77. Now that might be a ticket that will go places, with new faces and

fighting spirit it could work.

[grannylib]

10. I can certainly think of many, many worse candidates. And much as I

think Hillary might eventually make a good candidate (and a good president) 2008 is too soon. This country is so damn backwards. But I think it'd be a possibility for 2016, after two good terms of another great Democratic president and an economy back on track.
I have always liked Feingold, and as a neighboring Minnesotan, I have to admit I like the idea of a midwestern person. Can't hardly get more mom 'n apple pie than the upper midwest.

[Matilda]

26. Wouldn't Hillary be a bit too old in 2016?

I'm not sure how old she is - around 53, 54?

[grannylib]

33. Oh hell no. If RayGuns could do it when he was what, 78 or some damn

thing, and he only had half a brain to begin with...
Nah, she'd be fine.

[beyurslf]

81. Reagan was 69 when elected. HRC was born in 1947. In 2016

she will be 69.

[grannylib]

82. Thank you!

[David Dunham]

12. Feingold would not have a chance in the South.

[expatriot]

14. well either would hillary

[huckleberry]

16. How about Feingold/Warner?

Virginia Governor Mark Warner would be a great candidate! He really straightened out Gilmore's budgetary mess in Virginia.

[THUNDER HANDS]

54. no Dem would have a chance there

we shouldn't spend a dime in the South.

[TroglodyteScholar]

80. "we shouldn't spend a dime in the South."

Yep, give up on us. That's the winning spirit.

Don't be an ass. Well...don't be an elephant, but still.

[Ken Burch]

90. We don't want to give up on the South...but we ALSO don't want

to promise the South that the non-South will be left out in the cold
(like Carter and Clinton effectively did.)

How do we strike the balance?

[Cocoa]

65. I disagree vehemently

Feingold is unusually popular in rural Wisconsin for a dem.

[alarcojon]

76. I second that

Feingold holds town hall meetings in every county in the state, and it pays off for him among rural voters.

[ldf]

83. Feingold would not have a chance in the South

well maybe it's time we did it without the south.

as a southerner all my life until 1999, i've always thought the south had way to much to say about it. and i say that with a thick country accent, as one who grew up just a few miles from the suwannee river, who had the joys of experiencing an outhouse until i was 10.

:-)

since when should the rednecks and the bigots be picking who runs the most powerful country on earth? (yes, they exist everywhere, but are much more concentrated "down there". sorta like cooties. :evilgrin:)

I AM NOT BASHING THE SOUTH! just stating the realities.

and yes, i know all southerners are not rednecks and bigots, but they sure do show up at the polls in larger numbers. either that, or the non-redneck/bigots don't vote in large enough numbers to make sure the elections aren't stolen at the polls. either way, we all still get screwed.

if we won without the south, they may be forced to rethink their positions on some issues. AND deal with getting an unbeatable majority to the polls.

maybe just not concentrating on them would be enough to do the trick. as it is, they think the whole country revolves around them. them thar rednecks and bigots have united countrywide, and they are drunk with power. we need to make them realize that they are NOT what america is about.

and it IS possible to win without them.

[politicat]

84. Why has he no chance in the South?

I've never heard a huge issue with midwesterners in the South, unlike actual Yankees.

Can you explain for this poor, benighted Westerner who really has no clue about what makes a politician electable in the "gret stets of the Former Confederacy?"

Thanks.

[Ken Burch]

97. One of the great tragedies of this country is that

there hasn't been a Democrat elected president with a majority of the popular vote since the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were passed.

This has encouraged at least some Southern die-hards(and yes, racists in other parts of the country as well)to continue to accept the reality that Jim Crow lost, and that we need to move past that.

Nixon capitalized on that. So did Reagan and both Bushes.

It's time to STOP giving the South a veto over who gets elected president.

All they've ever done with that disproportionate power is say NO to change and the future.

And I say that as someone whose grandparents on his father's side were from Tennessee.

[SoCalDem]

102. Bingo.. the closeted anti-semites in the south would vote against

him even if he was a altar boy in a catholic church.The "Gentlemens' Agreement" still lives in parts of our country, and if the goal is to get a candidate with few negatives, and many positives, anyone with a Jewish surname or "girly-bits" will not get many votes.

We are not the forward-thinking country we once were...we have emerged from the Bush Time Machine, and the year is 1959...there are lots of guns..people do not value "fancy education"..wimmin folks are getting uppity...and Jesus reigns supreme..

Lieberman was no help as a running mate. His faith was a part of it.
It should not be this way, but it IS :(

[expatriot]

15. it would be a great irony if the race was between mccain-feingold

[Patiod]

60. That would be funny nt

[VegasWolf]

17. Voted against the Clinton NAFTA treaty! I'm FOR him!

[never cry wolf]

18. THIS IS CRUCIAL! Please note this part!

PLEASE take note of the following paragraphs from the article and someone should probably start a new thread... I have other commitments and need to book. READ THESE CAREFULLY!

One local resident is hardly willing to embrace Feingold's efforts.

Robert Shugart, of Prattville, said that, in the old days, the Republicans were the rich people, while a Democrat was "a poor working man."

Now, Shugart said, the problem is the Democratic Party is "so far out in left field" on religious and social issues and that they only care about the liberals and their allies.

Quoting a saying heard around the South the last several years, he said, "I didn't abandon the Democratic Party. They abandoned me."

on edit: This is a good DEM voter, that has been brainwashed to believe the bullshit. How do we get him, and millions of like minded sheep back?

[VegasWolf]

21. Get a wolf to herd them up? n/t

[Carolab]

35. This guy is all too typical. He is UNINFORMED.

It's so unfortunate that voters won't educate themselves on what's really going on in this country and who or what they are in fact voting for/against.

I really think that community education is the answer. Political education meetups at the precinct levels. Invite the neighborhood to the local church or school for lessons in democracy.

[Danmel]

44. We gotta flog a gay in the town square

Break out the torches, we're gonna have us some fun!

[NewJeffCT]

49. so many people believe this...

The RW has been pushing this meme for 30 years now and it has sunk into the mainstream.

I was in North Carolina last year on business and was surrounded by a bunch of people discussing politics and they all were nodding their heads in agreement when they said that the Democratic Party is so far to the left of where they were in the 60s and 70s that they can't vote Democratic now.

I'm not the arguing type, but wasn't universal health care part of the Democratic platform from the 1950s through 1992, and it's been off since 1996? That seems a pretty rightward shift...

[THUNDER HANDS]

55. we don't, we tell him to go F himself

then we get elected, raise his taxes and perform abortions and gay weddings on his front lawn.

:evilgrin:

[Zorra]

64. I read the article several times and did not see the paragraphs that you

refer to.

Were they deleted from the article after you posted, or ?

[never cry wolf]

72. I'm sorry, I should have clarified

My 1st time back on DU since my post. I took it from this article that was also posed as a reply:

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/NEWSV5/storyV5onfeingold30.htm

[warrens]

20. I'll be with him all the way

He's been clobbering Rethugs in Wisconsin who outspend him by 2-1, and while I was volunteering up there this fall, I saw a lot of Bush/Feingold yard sign dichotomies. The Republicans may not agree with him, but they respect him. He could be just what we need, and I will certainly work for him if he decides to run.

[me b zola]

22. The more I hear about Feingold, the more I like him

I have not heard one peep of negativity against him. I would hate to lose such a great Senator, but if he ran I believe, at this time, I would support him.

Feingold/Clark??

[Just Me]

23. *LOL* Who could pass up a HL, "Democratic dark horse"!!!!

Who the hell comes up with that CRAP?

A DARK HORSE?!?!?!?! Feingold represents a "Dark Horse"?!?!?!


WTF IS UP WITH THESE "MEDIA" PEOPLE? They characterize the CHAMPION of civil and human and American rights as a DARK HORSE?

bullshit

[mikehiggins]

24. He's a Senator. How many have we elected since LBJ?

Seriously, this guy could be the Second Coming of Jesus in the flesh but the baggage he will be carrying from years in Washington, and especially in the Senate, will doom his candidacy.

Did he, for example, vote FOR the war or AGAINST it?

Either way is a killer.

[w4rma]

29. Against it. No wavering. (nt)

[loro mi dicevano]

41. Against the war, and for the money to support the troops.

Makes sense, considering most Americans think it was a mistake to go into Iraq, but you'd never know with all the yellow ribbons.

[Dickie Flatt]

85. Funny.

It didn't doom him in rural Wisconsin. In fact, it helped him.

It's time to stop choosing candidates based on formulas and start choosing candidates who passionately support the ideals of the Democratic Party, regardless of where they are from.

[Voltaire99]

25. Infinitely preferable to the right wing H*ll*ry

Feingold's just as smart, but comes without all the disgusting reactionary baggage. H*ll*ry should cash in and go work for the Heritage Foundation.

In any case, it doesn't take a crystal ball to foretell how this one's going to play out: H*ll*ry wins the nomination, promises to fight the war in Syria properly, and Jeb is the next prez.

[Algomas]

39. OMG, that is depressingly probable, Voltaire

[obxhead]

96. that chills the blood.

[sadiesworld]

27. One of the few politicians who has consistently voted against

legislation which is destroying the middle and lower classes. If DUers don't think this will resonate in the South, think again.

[JohnnyBoots]

51. A fact that

will have to repaeted over a thusand times before it begins to sink in in the Red States. I wonder how Karl would spin that?

[The_Casual_Observer]

30. Beware of any MSM giving good "advice" on what the dems ought to do!

Fuck the MSM, they gave lots of "good advice" on the 9/11 scare and Iraq.

[Hekate]

42. No kidding!

The MSM just keeps advising Dems to dance ever further to the right -- the hell with 'em. I'd rather hear what Howard Dean has to say about what Dems should do!

Feingold sounds pretty good about now. Feingold-Boxer sounds even better.

Al Gore is retired from running for president, John Kerry bored me to tears and ran on his courage as a very young man rather than against George W. Bush's record as president, and Hillary Clinton -- oh God. I hate having to care what the likes of Rove could do to her, but the fact is the wingnuts have been working on trashing Hillary for what?, 13 years? The wingnuts will hang her out to dry, drawn and quartered, with a sign tacked on her calling her a feminazi before the ink is dry on her filing papers. I hope Hillary has a very long and successful career as a senator from New York.

Hekate

[Placebo]

32. I'm a huge Feingold fan...

but as a Presidential candidate?

Nah.

A true liberal who is also Jewish? Not going to happen, sadly.

[Dickie Flatt]

86. Oh, come on.

If we put up a candidate, like Feingold, who has strongly held views and is passionate in his defense of them, we will win. People respect someone with a spine.

[Robeson]

38. I'm impressed with his consistency with upholding the Constitution...

...and on appearances, it certainly is more consistent than most of our "elected" officials. Gee, imagine that! An elected official actually upholding the Constitution. I thought those days were long gone...

On one issue, that of his "No" vote for the use of force in Kosova, in reality, I think we did probably save lives in Kosovo, but, Feingold again, with apparent consistency, stated that only Congress had the right to authorize our troops to take war-type actions. His position should be applauded in this day and age when Presidents are allowed to use our armies as they damn well please. I commend him on his principles, which as we know, few in politics have.

I also liked this from the article on Joe Biden: "...Judiciary Committee Democrat Sen. Joe Biden, whose questioning of witnesses tends to become a meandering meditation on life....". That was a classic.

[AnnInLa]

43. What is his stance/record on pro-choice,

education and taxes? Thanks.

[serryjw]

103. He's almost as liberal as DK...I love it BUT

being a Jewish liberal Senator this will not be easy.With a Black man as VP or another FEMALE liberal from California we will have our work cut out for us. I have never heard him speak...Is he good? We need the Black vote in million...can he bring them out?

[Danmel]

45. Feingold, Obama, Boxer?

A Jew, a black and and a Jewish woman? Sounds like James Watt's staff!

Never gonna fly in red state America. Russ is not only Jewish, he has a Jewish name! What kinda name is that anyway, Feingold?

His wife is named Mary, though. Maybe she's a Christian!

Pardon my paranoia, but I'm not exactly expecting modern progressive thought from most of this country. I wonder why????

[no_to_war_economy]

47. amerika is too ass back wards to elect

a jew a woman a black man a brown man, maybe a muslim (wink)

[KamaAina]

61. They'd need a cripple, too (sarcasm)

Sounds like James Watt's staff!

LOL!

:sarcasm: To complete "a black, two Jews and a cripple", may I suggest Rep. James Langevin (D-RI 2nd)?

http://www.house.gov/langevin/about.html

In 1980, at the age of sixteen, Jim was injured while working with the Warwick Police Department as a cadet in the Boy Scout Explorer program. A gun accidentally discharged and a bullet struck Jim, leaving him paralyzed. The tremendous outpouring of support and encouragement from his friends and neighbors inspired Jim to give something back to the community. He ran as a State Delegate to Rhode Island's Constitutional Convention in 1986 and served as its Secretary. Two years later, he won election to his first term in the Rhode Island House of Representatives, where he established a reputation as a hard-working reformer committed to good government and received the number-one reform voting record in the Rhode Island House from government watchdog group Common Cause.

They even had to modify the House floor to make it accessible for Jim! And remember, guns don't kill people, they only paralyze people :sarcasm:

[AntiCoup2K4]

94. That's where Max Cleland comes in

Secretary of Defense :evilgrin:

[mountebank]

52. His lonely "no" vote on the Patriot Act could be crucial.

The Patriot Act is a topic that splits civil libertarian right-wingers from the authoritarian crowd. Most of the public is against it - hence, the "whirlwind" tour to whip up support for it that fell flat. It was a courageous vote and could pay dividends.

AND he was consistent on the Iraq War. Most of the public agrees with his stance: it wasn't worth it. And he didn't vote against the $87 billion before he voted for it. Sorry to resurrect that one - but it wasn't Kerry's principles that doomed him on that issue, it was his bumbling, political-ese that turned voters off. Justifiably, IMO.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

53. Feingold & Dean in 2008 - NOW THERE'S A TICKET!

They could call it the "Backbone Brothers" campaign.

JB

[AntiCoup2K4]

95. Except Dean has the Executive Branch experience, so he should be....

...at the top of the ticket. Which he said he wouldn't do when he became DNC chair.

I have nothing against Feingold himself, but it's just reality that Governors get elected, and Senators don't. We must have a governor out there whose not a total DLC-Corporatist- kissass, right?

[dhinojosa]

56. The more I read about him, the more I like....

[Mari333]

57. First, we have to hold electronic voting accountable

Until then, all political races can be stolen.

[spooked911]

62. Yep. Democrats can strategize all they like and Feingold seems

good, but until we can have elections that are not easily rigged, we have no hope.

[Melodybe]

69. Right on, make the votes auditable and then we'll see how much of the

American public has been drinking the kool-aid.

[Roland99]

63. Why another Senator??

[mountebank]

66. Do you really believe in this "Senators don't win" thing?

This Senator litmus test is bogus. If the guy's Senate voting record is solid and he's a good candidate.....um, What's the problem? Kerry's Senate voting record didn't really hurt him - it was his incapacity to explain his record in normal English (re: $87 billion for the troops, which, btw, Feingold voted yes to).

This Senator's Can't Win mantra is just voodoo. Pick the best candidate on issues and geography, regardless.

[Roland99]

68. There's always something the other side can pick apart

esp. in a long Senate career.


Besides, it takes a valuable Democrat out of the Senate.

[Dickie Flatt]

87. Enough with the fucking formulas

Well gee, hypothetical candidate X is a SENATOR, so minus five points. But he's from a RED STATE, plus one point. And he is from the SOUTH, plus two points. He's JEWISH, so that's minus two points. Gosh, negative three points. I vote no!

Enough of this bullshit. Vote your values, vote your hopes, vote for someone who will stand up for you. When you head to the primary, check your cold calculating political mind at the door. People respect a guy with a spine, and that's Feingold.

[PATRICK]

67. There is something humiliating

about taking the prophetic acclamation of MSNBC as a plus or a pleasant encouragement. Most of these little fillers are scattered around like buckshot and rarely even get close to the reality of the political scene, especially as it really turns out.

Consider the source. As for presidential candidates, it is barely relevant to the job at hand. No candidate is going to walk on water with the cement overshoes planted on them by the media and the GOP fraud machine. Screw MSNBC. If reality happens to match their "wisdom" then that reality will likely suck 100%.

[dand]

73. The Repubs have Diebold,

we lose.

[Freddie Stubbs]

74. Why is the MSM pushing Feingold?

:shrug:

[ReadTomPaine]

100. Good question. Maybe it's Feingold's idea and he's tugging strings.

Frankly I'd like to see senior Democrats do more string pulling, esp. regarding matters of legislation.

RTP

[Stevepol]

79. As a number of posters have astutel;y observed, Feingold

has no chance, nada, zilch, zero, UNTIL THE VOTE COUNTING IS DONE FAIRLY AND NOT IN SECRET BY PARTISANS WHO CAN CHEAT WITHOUT THE SLIGHTEST FEAR OF GETTING CAUGHT. All this beating of drums is meaningless. Kerry was a fine candidate and won the election. Gore did too for that matter. If Feingold wants to win the election, he'd better consult with the Urosevic brothers and your friendly programmers at Diebold, Sequoia, and ES&S. Those people have the only votes that matter in this country anymore.

[Dickie Flatt]

88. So if we don't fix the machines

should we just not run a candidate at all, because it's a fucking fraud election?

If it's not close, they can't cheat.

[Jackpine Radical]

99. Bullshit.

They can make things look close that aren't. They did it in 2004. Kerry won by 3%, and that isn't close. As another case in point, Max Cleland had a double-digit lead "disappear" on him.

Rig the machines and you can do ANYTHING. Remember, 2004 "proved" that polls, even including exit polls, are unreliable. There are no checks. The people in charge of the machines can produce whatever results they want. Period.

[Dickie Flatt]

104. So what are you going to do about it?

[Jackpine Radical]

105. For starters, take off the blinders

& acknowledge the magnitude of the problem.

I think we gotta keep on dissecting 2000, 2002 & 2004 & spreading the word of our findings, through all the means available to us, until it has entered the public consciousness (I speak loosely) that the Pugs are habitual election thieves. Only then can we get a shot at meaningful reforms.

I'm hoping that people like Dean & Feingold are starting to see what has happened, although the last time I talked to Feingold about electronic voting machines (maybe 11 months or a year ago) he had his head in an optimistic fog on the issue.

[Peggy Day]

106. Amen brother! Until rigged election are fixed-we're screwed!

[quaoar]

98. For a real dark horse

How about Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer?

[Daphne08]

107. I would vote for Feingold in a heartbeat!!