Army retention rates booming among 1st ID, 1st AD soldiers in Europe

[lebkuchen]

Military folks: what do you make of this?

Overall, retention rates for the 1st ID and 1st AD indicate little problem in keeping soldiers. In the past two years, both divisions have exceeded retention goals.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=28014


*The article is short on numbers, high on hyperbole, imo. For example, we don't know if these "booming" reenlistment rates w/the 1AD/1ID are higher than what would normally be expected in a non-war time situation. If retention rates for two divisions which have returned from Iraq--one division redeploying for a second tour in Nov., the other returned this month--are higher now than in wartime, can it be said that war enhances reenlistment rather than hurts it? Is that true, historically?

Or is this just a propaganda piece?

[w4rma]

1. If they don't resign they are in the Ready Reserves for 3 - 5 more years.

And it appears that the GOP has been drafting lots of folks from the Ready Reserves. Maybe they figure if they are probably just going to be called up again, they might as well stay and get a re-up bonus for it.

[BrotherBuzz]

2. Army Secretary Francis J. Harvey was just in Germany

Maybe the troops got his memo: Re-up and take your damn bonus, or enter the IRR revolving door and be right back in the 'Green Machine'. Either way, we own your butt!!!

[lyonn]

10. This sounds like a good repub. plan

It is an either - or situation. Heard this angle before by the enlisted. Some of us call it blackmail. Be honest and go for the draft so they may catch a repub. in the mix occasionally and let them also lead the good fight.

[BrotherBuzz]

21. I'm conflicted on that...

As a dumb draftee that added "no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services over any sustained period of time." (Rumsfeld, you are an ass) I'm conflicted about the whole idea of reinstating the draft. As much as I would love to see chickenhawks and their children stung with the draft, I know good people would get sucked into the machine in the process. I don't wish that on people that don't want to live a world of spite. On the other hand David Hackworth had some kind words about us draftees (I think he was describing me!):

"Even when they pissed me off, I had to admit there was something I liked about the draftees who didn't want to be there and made no bones about it. I like draftees in general, even with the attendant problems. Historically draftees have kept the military on the straight and narrow. By calling a spade a spade, they keep it clean. Without their "careers" to think about, they can't be easily bullied or intimidated as Regulars; their presence prevents the elitism that otherwise might allow a Regular army to become isolated from the values of the country it serves. Draftees are not concerned for the reputation of their employer, the Army (in Vietnam they happily blew the whistle an everything from phony valor awards to the secret bombings of Laos and Cambodia); a draftee, citizens' army, so much a part of the history of America, is an essential part of a healthy democracy, one in which everyone pays the price Of admission." Col. David Hackworth (from his book About Face)

That being said, I choose to resolve world conflicts without military intervention, and the only way I see that happening to to remove this administration from power. Ironically, the quickest way to remove this administration is to reinstate the draft. A real conundrum, and that's why I'm conflicted. :shrug:

[AndyTiedye]

29. NO DRAFT! Or ** Will Rule Us Forever!!

They can fudge election results until the cows come home,
but they can't fudge the fact that
NOBODY WANTS TO FIGHT THEIR GODDAMN WARS!

If they get the draft, they will have all the troops they need
to invade Syria, Iran, Venezuela....





The draft would also give them enough troops to enforce martial law.

[BrotherBuzz]

30. They can't fudge pitchforks and torches

Reinstating the draft might just be the catalyst to pull this nation out of the doldrums of complacency and start fighting back.

Like I said, I'm conflicted on this.

[bluestateguy]

3. This is news put out by the military's own press spokespersons

It's about as believable as the other Bush Administration produced "fake news" spots that have become so common over the last 4 years.

[lebkuchen]

4. self-edit

If retention rates for two divisions which have returned from Iraq--one division redeploying for a second tour in Nov., the other returned this month--are higher now than in PEACEtime, can it be said that war enhances reenlistment rather than hurts it? Is that true, historically?

[ProgressiveConn]

5. We spend a lot of money to make sure our troops do as they are told...

[ET Awful]

6. Of course they don't have any problems keeping soldiers, STOP LOSS

is in effect. Soldiers aren't being discharged.

[ColdWarZoomie]

7. I'm Not Surprised

I was just an Air Force weenie.

But from what I understand, the bonds developed during combat are incredibly strong. With DoD rotating units rather than individuals (like they did in Vietnam), these men & women fight together, make it through together, and return home together.

The bonds between them must be incredibly strong at this point. And leaving that "family" would be more difficult than it was for people like me who just did my time between multiple units and boogied out. Plus, they are staying with the people who understand them most - fellow soldiers. We sillyvillians back here who never served, and definitely never saw combat, won't have the foggiest clue of what these folks have been through. But staying in their unit keeps them with folks who do.

Even without combat experience, my friendships developed in the military are still some of the strongest - ever.

[lebkuchen]

25. I've heard that rationale particularly from the younger enlisted

who aren't married yet. They want to get back to Iraq so they can be with their friends, watch each other's backs, and make a little extra money through combat pay.

If the NCOs are getting out, which, according to the Stripes letter I posted below, is happening, it's most likely because the spouse has had enough of the long and multiple deployment schedules.

[ausiedownunderground]

8. I survived Iraq -i'm one of the 9 in 10. I can do it again at those odds

Its like the lottery. Your an American "killing machine". You survived in a country where you are the law. You can do anything you want,when you want. However each time you go back you risk the 1 in 10 killed or wounded ratio. This ratio will very likely get worse as each deployment happens. But once a "killing machine" probably always a "killing machine". America needs to encourage these people to stay in the Middle East where "killing" is extremely common and part of everyday life! The alternative is to turn them loose on American neighbourhoods?

[qazplm]

9. what an utterly

ill-informed comment.

[DS1]

11. My guess is $$$$$$$$$$$$ bonuses boosted leads to higher retention

[ElectroPrincess]

16. I want to know how long THAT money is going to last?

Where is this windfall for bonuses coming from when the Veterans' can't receive adequate care at VA Hospitals?

What? Everybody is on the take?

This whole situation sickens me. :(

[bush_is_wacko]

12. Build up to war AGAINST the US???

Europeans pretty much see bush as the Anti-Christ. Maybe they are expecting to need to defend their country from his invasion plans!

[Solly Mack]

13. I do know that re-enlistment is higher among those stationed in Europe

especially those in Germany...(provided re-enlistment includes remaining in Germany)

the BSB here just had a meeting about this very thing and their findings were "soldiers (the majority) and their family members (already in Europe) prefer living in Europe over other duty stations"

[lebkuchen]

14. But the 1ID and 1AD are being returned to the US

w/the divisions rotating in an out of Romania/Bulgaria on unaccompanied 6 mo (at least) tours. How is this appealing to divisions that have already seen multiple unaccompanied tours?

What am I missing?

[Solly Mack]

15. Maybe the bonus factor? (for some)

There are a lot of promises of a bonus going on...

Also, established families are hard put to give up the health care.



Course, DA could be lying about the numbers. Wouldn't be the first time.

Aren't they going to Fort Riley? I know Riley is about to get 3 new divisions (Armor and infantry among them)

[lebkuchen]

17. Yes, I think it's to Ft. Riley. check out today's Stripes letter here~!

The article required one to scroll to the middle to get any substance, and even then, there wasn't much. It certainly was data driven.

Just how is "booming reenlistment" being defined?

on edit: just saw this letter in today's Stripes:


Fast promotions will backfire

I am stunned at how out of touch the senior members of the noncommissioned officer support channel have become. (“Army to put 19,000 E-4s on promotion list,” article, Korea edition, March 3).

Automatic promotion to E-5 is a road that we as NCOs and an Army cannot handle. As large as the problem is, the problem is still not being addressed. If you listen to the senior NCOs, they would say that the chain of command is not sending soldiers to the board, thus a shortage of E-5s.

Their reasoning for this new change to automatic promotions is to address a problem that doesn’t exist for the reasons that they purport are the cause for the change in the first place. a soldier has been in the Army for four years does not qualify him as a leader. It is a fact that some people are leaders and some are followers — contrary to popular belief that you can change that follower, through rigorous training or combat, into a leader.

While some will benefit, most will be content to do his or her job and move on. The same problem happened in Vietnam. With a squad and team leader shortage, the Army’s Band-Aid for that was the “shake and bake” NCO, troops identified in basic training as having leadership potential. They graduated basic training and were then moved into an NCO leadership-type school, promoted and sent to Vietnam. While this worked for some, most failed. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Let’s address the real problem(s). Retention and deployment/unpredictable schedules is leading to a mass exodus of our best junior NCOs; with the addition of new Units of Action, the problem is only going to become exasperated.

Right now we are playing a shell game with our NCOs. We say that a unit is standing down to recover from a recent deployment, but what is really happening is that unit’s NCO corps is gutted and being sent to units that are preparing to deploy. Until we as NCOs can get a handle on the main problem, anything that is tried is nothing more than a patch on a hole that is going to continue to stretch until the NCO corps is broken beyond repair.

Staff Sgt. Derek Kitts
Forward Operating Base Danger, Iraq

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=27984


Whoa!

[Solly Mack]

18. The "booming" is pure hyperbole

and from the article it seems that retention is only a little higher than normal....though they call it booming.

[lebkuchen]

23. From the letter, it sounds like the Morale Survey's prediction was right

that there would be a hemorrhaging of NCOs, which is why there is now a fast-track promotion to E-5.

Billions wasted on training because leadership in the enlisted ranks is bailing.

[Solly Mack]

27. Definitely right. NCO's have gotten the "hell out of Dodge"

And the latest fastrack scheme is putting untrained ,untested , and unprepared soldiers into positions of leadership that will end in more losses of life. The learning curve in a war zone isn't very forgiving.

In 2004, they cut PLDC down to 2 weeks in an attempt to turn out new E-5's quicker. In 2003, they delayed PLDC,BNOC & ANOC, in an attempt to fill team,squad, and plt sgt positions. Soldiers took a lateral promotion but had to get the school within a year...then that got moved to "at the armys discretion". Now...no more command recomendation needed period... and all because NCOs (what the DA calls "the backbone of the army") are fleeing...(and many NCO's have died or been injured)

[tabasco]

31. Wow - PLDC only two weeks now. That sucks.

I had the month long course in El Paso and thought it was very good.

[Joey Liberal]

19. These troops are being duped

Once they re-enlist, the Army can send them anywhere, including Iraq. I think the article is a PR sham put out by DoD.

[Rose Siding]

20. Are stop-loss retention and IRR numbered among the retained?

[lebkuchen]

24. Article doesn't give ANY information like that

not even a comparison of enlistments when the country is in non-war status. Who's defining "booming" here, anyway?

[benddem]

22. The answer is simple

the troops are told...Reup and you get $15,000. Don't reup no 15 grand...and you are stop lossed and sent to Iraq. This is just terrible.

[number6]

26. a factor in it ...

"..if they are probably just going to be called up again, they might as well stay and get a re-up bonus for it."

[5thGenDemocrat]

28. I haven't seen anyone mention this possibility yet

Both the 1st Infantry and the 1st Armored are elite units. Two of the finest in the Army, with loads of history and esprit de corps.
Not everyone here likes the (concept of having to have an) Army and that's okay. I'm all for peace myself.
But we veterans always remember a lot of comrades who loved the Army, who were comfortable there and who looked at it as a career. For these folks, the 1st ID or 1st AD are the way to go. To each his or her own.
As the guys in the 1st ID say: "If you're going to be one, be a Big Red One."
I was content pounding a teletype, myself.
John
72E20
USACC (now 9th Signal Command)
Fort Monroe, VA; 1974-76

[lebkuchen]

32. Received a response from t/article's writer--enlightening to say the least

Actually, we have NO conclusive data about 1st AD or 1st ID reenlistment rates. Those headlines -- written in Washington DC, no by me -- were totally misleading. Apparently the composition person who puts together the paper looked at the data box, but never read the story itself, which was about the many factors soldiers consider as they decide to stay in the Army, or to get out.

My apologies. The whole reenlistment data issue is totally obscured by the demographic oddities of people staying in reup windows longer, stop-loss and by the Army's need to increase the size of both divisions. I asked everyone from USAREUR officials to the Pentagon G-1, and everyone agreed that no one actually tracks the percentage of the soldiers who were in the Army on March 17, 2003 are still in the Army. Or in either forward-based division, for that matter.

Sorry, but again, Stars and Stripes dropped the ball on this one. That said, I plan to follow up with more stories looking at different reenlistment issues.

Again, my apologies,

Terry


**It's QUITE the stretch for DC to surmise "booming army reenlistments" from the information in the article, or even Terry's piece here, also in Stripes yesterday:

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=28015

I think it was a deliberate attempt on Stripes DC's part to mislead. Somebody in the Bush administration has a ringer in the Stripes office.

[Rose Siding]

33. According to CSM, this is one factor keeping Guard enlistment down

Guard and reserve enlistment generally drew heavily from active branches...

snip>
Yet the Iraq war has also produced unique stresses on the military and on recruiting, particularly for the Guard and Reserve. "The National Guard has changed radically," says Lt. Col. Mike Milord of the National Guard Bureau. "Historically, the National Guard has been here to be available for a World War III-type scenario."

It was a relative haven from active military service, where members could establish civilian lives with some sense of normalcy. As a result, active soldiers at the end of their enlistment would often join the ranks of the Guard and Reserve, providing about half of their total force.

Today, however, the Guard and Reserve are in the thick of the action. Since 2001, more than 60,000 Guard and Reserve troops have been deployed at least twice, blurring the line between active and reserve soldiers and affecting recruitment efforts. Those soldiers willing to stay in Iraq are cashing in on large incentives to reenlist in the active Army. Those who want to get out are avoiding the Guard and Reserve, because they know they could be sent back. "We've changed our recruiting," says Colonel Milord. "We've had to get more of the non-prior-service market."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0328/p01s01-usmi.html