Florida Court to Hold 'Emergency Hearing'

[SaveElmer]

Holding hearing at 5:30. No immediate word on what it is about.

I heard on CNN news that one of the lawyers claims that Terri Schiavo told him she wanted to live. Unbelievable what these people will stoop too.

http://www.cnn.com/

[DODI]

1. I can't keep with the courts they have gone to in the last 24 hours

anyone keeping count?

[SillyGoose]

10. I'm starting to wonder where the money is coming from to pay the

legal fees for all this. I've heard the Right-to-Life movement is funding the Schindlers, but who, if anyone, is funding the husband?

[Horse with no Name]

22. Nobody.

There is no money.
There is no life insurance.
There won't be while she is alive or after she is dead.
His attorney has been working pro-bono on this for the last three years.
I don't understand why people are questioning his motives--the only monetary gain is on the Schindler side.:(

[Swede Atlanta]

66. Let's start a fund

I for one am shocked at all of this. According to reports any money Michael Schiavo received as a result of a tort claim against doctors, etc. is gone.

So let's start a fund for him. I just want his pain and the grevious injury to his wife and her person to come to an end.

[Gman]

35. Won 0 Lost 23

over the years

[indypaul]

70. They do not yet understand

that God does indeed answer all prayers. However,
sometimes the answer is NO!

[atreides1]

2. THey'll stoop lower, just wait and see.

If the judge decides that this lawyer is lying, I hope the attorney has another line of work to fall back on.

This lawyer better have a witness to what he heard, and then he better be able to answer why he never gave this information until now.

[rodeodance]

64. pretty desparate for Barbara Weller the lawyer to be making an issue

of this now in the appeal. But I have it on TV this week--it has circulated.

[daleo]

3. I would love to see him testify to that.

Under oath. Then Ms. Shiavo could be called to corroborate. If so, it could be a long day in court.

Although I suppose it would let them put the feeding tube back in, which might be the point of the ploy. Nothing would surprise me.

[sonicx]

4. throw shit out and see what sticks.

[meganmonkey]

5. At what point is it too late?

I mean, obviously if she dies it is over. But she must be very dehydrated and near death, which is probably starting to cause her organs to be very stressed. If there is (god forbid) some sort of emergency decision to put her back on the tubes, will they do it as long as there is a breath in her? Or could a doctor deem it non-viable even if she is not technically dead?

Anyone know?

[daleo]

11. By the parents' reasoning, it is never too late.

The parents have supposedly testified that they would insist on a respirator, heart-lung machine, etc. The circus won't end until she dies, if they hold to this position.

[lumberjack_jeff]

67. If her body were to die today...

... I'm sure that her parents and the "Territarian" hordes would keep a vigil until at least Sunday.

[Blue_In_AK]

6. Not to be cruel...

...but do you suppose he heard something like ahhhhhhhhhhhh ahhhhhhhhhh?

[MidwestTransplant]

7. "Told him" Oh please.

[onenote]

8. article says its a court in clearwater

are they forum shopping to get another judge than greer? This is beginning to smell. They've got another judge teed up to order restoring the feeding tube. The State Supreme Court probably would reverse the decision, but then they'll claim that they finally "proved" their case and were frustrated by "activist" judges.

onenote

[atreides1]

13. Clearwater is located in Pinellas County

So it's in the same county where Judge Greer is located, so unless they have some under the table guarantee, it's not going to make much of a difference.

[quaoar]

15. Forum shopping?

You can't do that. One judge can not intervene to wrest jurisdiction from a presiding judge in a case. Greer would have to be removed from the case for cause by some entity such as the state Supreme Court. In some states, the chief judge in a county can do that.

[mmonk]

9. This is bordering

on sick. What good will come of this? I see none.

[cry baby]

12. Maybe the judge can just drive over there and Terri can articulate

what she wants to happen directly to him.

[BloodPrssre]

14. MSNBC said the hearing is

about trying to get Judge Greer to recuse himself. What are the odds of hat happening?

[sonicx]

16. LOL, why? "damn activist judges!"

[BloodPrssre]

19. Tha's what they said

but Judge Greer is a Republican and a conservative Christian

[thecrow]

65. But the fundies are trying to have him IMPEACHED!!!!

http://www.petitiononline.com/ijg520/

[jazzjunkysue]

69. Get a life, you right-wingers! Go do something that will actually help som

someone who's able to recieve help! Get a friggin' life! LIve up to your bullshit rhetoric and goet out there and volunteer for charities. Adopt a kid. Serve in a food pantry. Teach someone english. Give to the poor. Raise money for the poor. DO ONE BLESSED GOOD DEED FOR SOMEONE!!

[bluedog]

18. GREER is hearing this

again for the umpteenth time..........hope he says enough is enough and hold them in contempt

[msanthrope]

21. They are asking for his recusal, and to present evidence

that she told an attorney, "I want to live."

Ironically, a recusal motion comes before the judge in question. Greer is more patient than I.

What will happen is a denial, and then another immediate appeal on the issues.

They are shamelessly judge-shopping, and I hope Rule 11 gets invoked.

[atreides1]

24. What's Rule 11?

[Blue_In_AK]

27. Frivolous lawsuits and motions. n/t

A judge can order sanctions against someone if they're just blowing a lot of hot air and don't have a legitimate claim.

[cry baby]

17. CNN seems to have gone over the edge on this issue except

earlier today, once, I heard the question "what about the sanctity of marriage"? It's the only sane thing I've heard on CNN.

[daleo]

26. Yes, CNN has gone nuts.

They had a spokesman for the disabled (he claimed to be anyway) who said living wills and expressions of that sort don't really count, because you make them before you become brain damaged. But you might feel differently about things after being brain damaged, if you could only think about it. Something like that, it was convoluted. He also said that if there are no written instructions to the contrary, everyone should be kept alive by all means possible. Something like that, it was convoluted too.

I don't know if the interviewer even challenged the logic of these points, as I could only stand about 3 minutes of the program.

CNN is also going heavy on the heart rending photos of Ms. Shiavo before her accident, but only the ones where she is slim. They keep broadcasting these images, as if her pre brain damaged looks somehow had some bearing on the case now. It is clearly just manipulation.

Given the polls, I don't know who they are pandering to. Trying to steal away Fox viewers maybe.

[w4rma]

61. AOL owns and runs CNN. This is right up their alley. (nt)

[depakid]

20. Don't any of these courts ever give out sanctions

for filing frivolous motions, cases and appeals?

[msanthrope]

23. Rule 11. Seldom invoked, but boy, are they begging for it in

this case....

[quaoar]

25. OK. I'll ask it. What is Rule 11?

[Blue_In_AK]

28. See above

It's a rule that allows a judge to order sanctions if someone files a lawsuit or motion with no merit.

[Chichiri]

29. I Googled a bit, and . . .

found this: http://www.usip.com/articles/sanction.htm

(begin quote)

Rule 11 sanctions cover any signed papers filed in federal district court. Sanctions may be awarded for filing three types of papers: factually frivolous (not "well grounded in fact"); legally frivolous (not "warranted by existing law or a good faith argument for the exclusion, modification or reversal of existing law."); and papers "interposed for an improper purpose." Business Guides, Inc. v. Chromatic Comm. Entr. Inc., 892 F.2d 809 (9th Cir. 1989). Reasonable expenses and fees may be awarded under this Rule, and both the attorney and party are vulnerable.

The Ninth Circuit has carved out an exception to this general rule. Filing a non-frivolous complaint is not sanctionable in the Ninth Circuit if the complaint is well supported by law and facts, even if it is filed for an improper purpose.

Subjective good faith is not a defense to a request for sanctions: Objective good faith is required. The test is one of "reasonableness under the circumstances." As the Seventh Circuit noted, "An empty head but a pure heart is no defense." Thornton v. Wahl, 787 F.2d 1151, 1154 (7th Cir. 1986), cert. denied, 107 S.Ct. 181 (1986). Both parties and counsel are held to this standard. Business Guides, supra. Generally, the paper as a whole must be frivolous or harassing: A frivolous argument will not render an entire paper sanctionable.

How much legal and factual research is enough to avoid sanctions under Rule 11's "reasonable inquiry" requirement? There is no one test. But Ninth Circuit courts have considered the following to decide if the inquiries made were reasonable: (1) Did the attorney speak directly with the client or just rely on information supplied by forwarding counsel; (2) Did the attorney conduct personal interviews of the parties and witnesses; (3) Was it reasonable to rely on the client for information when there were alternate sources of information; and, (4) Is the attorney experienced in this type of matter?

(end quote)

[bluedog]

30. rule 11

WHAT REMEDY RULE 11 PROVIDES

Rule 11 prescribes sanctions for certain basic misdeeds: (1) the filing of a frivolous suit or document; (2) the filing of a document or lawsuit for an improper purpose; (3) actions that needlessly increase the cost or length of litigation.

Relevant parts of the rule are these:

The signature of an attorney or party constitutes a certificate by the signer that the signer has read the pleading, motion, or other paper; that to the best of the signer's knowledge, information, and belief formed after reasonable inquiry it is well grounded in fact and is warranted by existing law or a good faith argument for the extension, modification, or reversal of existing law, and that it is not interposed for any improper purpose, such as to harass or to cause unnecessary delay or needless increase in the cost of litigation... If a pleading, motion, or other paper is signed in violation of this rule, the court, upon motion or upon its own initiative, shall impose upon the person who signed it, a represented party, or both, an appropriate sanction, which may include an order to pay the other party or parties the amount of the reasonable expenses incurred because of the filing of the pleading, motion, or other paper, including a reasonable attorney's fee (emphasis added).

Sanctions may apply against an attorney, the client, or both; therefore, we have adopted the collective convention, attorney/client.



http://www.aepronet.org/pn/vol6-no2.html

[onenote]

31. rule 11 applies to federal courts

and this latest effort is in state court. However, I would imagine that the Florida state courts have rules against frivolous motions and appeals as well.

onenote

[msanthrope]

34. Rule 11 in fed, yes, but it's lawyerly shorthand for

general chicanery. 6.1 in Florida, I believe.

[msanthrope]

33. Rule 11

Rule 11 is the Federal Rule of Civil Procedure. Basically, you file frivilous crap, you pay. See subsection b. The Florida equivalent is rule 6.1. You misrepresent to the court, you pay.

Rule 11. Signing of Pleadings, Motions, and Other Papers; Representations to Court; Sanctions
SNIP

(b) Representations to Court.
By presenting to the court (whether by signing, filing, submitting, or later advocating) a pleading, written motion, or other paper, an attorney or unrepresented party is certifying that to the best of the person's knowledge, information, and belief, formed after an inquiry reasonable under the circumstances,--

(1) it is not being presented for any improper purpose, such as to harass or to cause unnecessary delay or needless increase in the cost of litigation;

(2) the claims, defenses, and other legal contentions therein are warranted by existing law or by a nonfrivolous argument for the extension, modification, or reversal of existing law or the establishment of new law;

(3) the allegations and other factual contentions have evidentiary support or, if specifically so identified, are likely to have evidentiary support after a reasonable opportunity for further investigation or discovery; and

(4) the denials of factual contentions are warranted on the evidence or, if specifically so identified, are reasonably based on a lack of information or belief.

[Mr. Peanut]

32. Ringers will milk this case for all it's worth

And when Terri dies, they'll blame it on the Dems.

Anyone know anything more about the memo ABC uncovered?

...Bush, Frist, and DeLay claim that they're acting out of concern for Ms. Schiavo. But a memo intended only for Republican Senators—uncovered by ABC News—reveals Republicans' true concern: "The pro-life base will be excited...this is a great political issue...this is a tough issue for Democrats." ... This story also takes the heat off Tom DeLay, who is facing a number of serious ethics charges and legal scandals.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Schiavo/story?id=600937
"GOP Talking Points on Terri Schiavo"

[glaucon]

36. Attorney Barbara Weller

No link yet, but Fox is reporting that one of Schindler's attorneys, Barbara Weller, is testifying before Judge Greer that she personally heard Terri Schiavo say she wanted to live, when the feeding tube was removed.

What's the penalty for an officer of the court if they perjure themselves?

[atreides1]

37. Some penalties

Perjury charges, jail time, monetary fine, and disbarment.

So if this attorney is making this statement, why haven't any of the medical staff who removed the feeding tube come forward. Or did the attorney take the feeding tube out, while the medical staff watched.

If this is true, then someone has promised this woman that she will never get charged.

[sonicx]

39. There were probably several staff people there.

This whole thing is getting silly.

[atreides1]

45. Exactly

This has gone beyond silly. We are now into the surreal!!!!

[Bariztr]

38. Really?

If she is testifying under oath that "she personally heard" Teri speak she is risking her bar card and a perjury charge. And if this is so they should go after and make sure she never practices again. It's tough enough being a lawyer with scum like this being allowed to practice.

[rodeodance]

40. why is this lawyer only saying this a week later?

[rodeodance]

41. talking of this on msnbc NOW

[rodeodance]

42. sounds like the lawyer was egging her on. Lawyer said the phase first

Then heard mumbling--Teri did NOT finish last words.

[rodeodance]

44. This was done on march 18

[sonicx]

48. Terri makes random, involuntary noises all the time...

but cannot talk.

This lawyer needs to be locked up.

[glaucon]

43. link

With Terri Schiavo Nearing Death, Parents Press on With Court Appeals
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBKW32ZQ6E.html

{...}
Another legal maneuver included a late afternoon filing asking Pinellas Circuit Judge George Greer to order the reinsertion of the tube, claiming Terri Schiavo tried to say "I want to live" when her tube was removed.

Doctors who have examined her for the court case have said her previous utterances weren't speech, but were involuntary moans consistent with someone in a vegetative state. Greer, who had ordered the tube removed, planned a hearing later in the day.

Barbara Weller, an attorney for the Schindlers, called the motion "our final shot." An attorney for her husband Michael Schiavo had just received the motion and was not available for comment.
<...>


doesn't mention that Weller was the one testifying, but Fox is reporting she is...

[rodeodance]

46. Fl. judge will not remove self from case--will rule by tomorrow--tag line

on msnbc

[rodeodance]

47. Greer must be under pressure to remove himself?

[sonicx]

49. he won't. there's no reason to except "i don't like him"

[rodeodance]

51. the appeal opens--"This is about mercy killing"

[MadisonProgressive]

52. That won't fly at all - it's not a mercy killing

it's simply removing artificial life support by the wishes of the vegetable. The courts have upheld this 20+ times.

[rodeodance]

54. does not matter-the family is doing it.

[MadisonProgressive]

58. It matters to the law! They will lose...

[rodeodance]

63. any one know if others in room heard any of this?

[roseBudd]

68. this is what I wrote to the AP about this story

In the story

With Terri Schiavo Nearing Death, Parents Press on With Court Appeals

on:
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBKW32ZQ6E.html

it says:

Terri Schiavo suffered brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped briefly from a chemical imbalance believed to have been brought on by an eating disorder. She left no living will.

Terri Schiavo GAL has stated that Terri was without a beating heart for 11 minutes. I think it is reasonable to state that when speaking of being without oxygen 11 minutes is acute, therefore the term brief does not accurately reflect the circumstances.

[LynneSin]

50. BTW, Terri told me that her parents were nut jobs!!!

Better get me in on the case too!!

[rodeodance]

53. lawyer argues that Terri tried to speak to her "I want ..garbled

[glaucon]

56. ...to die

I suppose there is an equally good chance that she meant "I want...to die. Now get the hell out of here and leave me the fuck alone..."

[sonicx]

57. "I want"?

Maybe Terri meant to say..."I want you to shut the fuck up"?

[daleo]

60. Maybe she said "I want to die"

As someone pointed out earlier.

These involuntary noises hardly constitute legal testimony. If she was actually coherent, a series of questions with a yes/no answer would be possible, like in the old Star Trek episode with Captain Pike. Notice they never offer to test her this way.

[Technowitch]

55. The parents and attorneys have already proven they'll lie

about absolutely anything. They have zero credibility.

[proReality]

59. More likely, had she actually spoken, her words would have been

I won.

[rodeodance]

62. well, it is scary to think that this Lawyer would use hearsay--which I

think it is. The lawyer is saying what she said (and not wll either for that matter). Must have been others in the room. anyone know?

[XemaSab]

71. Terri told him she wanted to live?

A hat made of tin foil will block Terri's voice from entering your head, dude, as well as all the other voices.

:tinfoilhat:

[chomskysright]

72. ITS ALIVE!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!

[Moderator]

73. locking

updated link here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1343587