Appeals Court: Marine Can't Be Forced To Sell Home In Flag Flap

[truthpusher]

Appeals Court: Marine Can't Be Forced To Sell Home In Flag Flap
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POSTED: 11:23 pm EST March 23, 2005
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WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- A retired Marine who has waged a five-year fight with his homeowners association over a flag pole won a battle Wednesday when an appeals court ruled his home can't be sold for lawyer fees.

(snip)

Attorney General Charlie Crist, who helped in the case, called the ruling a "tremendous victory, not only for George and Anna Andres, but for the concept of property rights in Florida."

Andres' attorney, Barry Silver, said the ruling should encourage homeowners who are afraid to challenge their homeowners' associations because of the belief they could lose their homes.

(snip)

Andres' difficulties attracted attention in Tallahassee, where the Legislature passed a law allowing people to fly the American flag regardless of homeowner association rules.

On Flag Day in 2002, Gov. Jeb Bush presented Andres a flag that had flown over the state Capitol and helped him raise it on the flagpole. But the new law did not help Andres in the foreclosure case because it was passed long after the lien was placed on his house.

complete story: http://www.local6.com/news/4313260/detail.html

[Psephos]

1. All politics aside, I'm glad for this decision

Whether you want to fly an American flag, a Jolly Roger, or a black cloth with a giant clenched fist on your flagpole, it should never cost you your house. The Bill of Rights would seem to agree.

[truthpusher]

3. I would have to agree.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Calico Jack Rackham]

5. You know what?

as a proud former Marine I resent your ignorant and stupid comment. Your painting with pretty broad fucking stroke their pal. Why don't you take the time to use your brain before you start typing and smearing a whole group for one individuals actions.

[truthpusher]

6. I figured it would only be a matter of time before...

...someone like yourself responded to that post. The person who wrote that was obviously not thinking too clearly. It's hard for a lot of people to get outside of their frame and see the world for what it really is.

[vpigrad]

7. I've never heard of a Marine that was a party member!

Sorry if it seems like I'm painting with a broad brush, but I've probably known 50 or so Marines in my life, and every one of them was like this idiot. If you really are a party member, then I apologize for offending you. I don't apologize for my comment though since I do believe it is true.

[qazplm]

15. let me make sure I understand...

you think your comment is true (basically attacking all marines) but you apologize to him personally and the guy is/was a marine.

anyone else see the disconnect there?

clearly your comment isnt always true if you feel the need to apologize to a marine for comments made about all marines since all marines must not be the same (although as an army guy i do question their sanity on occassion).

lotta broad brush painting going on lately.

[DS1]

17. I'm one, always have been, and know quite a few others

:sigh:

[Calico Jack Rackham]

18. I've known hundreds of fellow Marines in my time

and many of them were Democrats, hell I can remember quite a few of us who filled out are Absentee ballots for Clinton.

Once again your ignorance floats to the surface. Just because YOU never heard of a Marine that was a Democrat than naturally, no Marines can be Democrats.

[vpigrad]

20. Many?

I find that hard to believe. The ideals of the party are so disconnected from the ideal of swearing to kill for the president that I don't understand how someone could be both. It just doesn't make logical sense.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

22. Dude, That Is Sucn an Ignorant and Narrow-Minded Comment

Why don't you give up now, while you're behind?

DTH

[vpigrad]

24. Considering the recent presidents we've had...

how could you side with someone that would take an oath to serve them? Just look at recent history, and we have Nixon, Raygun, Bush I and Bush II. Why would someone join? Also, they are trained to kill. How is that right? Also, look at what the marines are doing to the poor Iraqi's right now! How can you support that? How?

[Pinboy]

25. Their oath is to support, uphold and defend the Constitution . . .

"against all enemies, foreign and domestic." Service members do not swear allegiance to a particular President. They are obligated to serve their country, regardless of their personal political beliefs.

[Calico Jack Rackham]

26. Do you have any idea of

what you are talking about or are you just pulling shit out of your ass? The military is overwhelmingly Republican; however, there are quite a few Democrats in the military and yes I knew many. You can doubt it all you want because your doubt is nothing but your own uninformed opinion and has nothing to do with my actual experiences with Democrats in the military.

Just to further illustrate your ignorance no member of the military swears an oath to KILL for the president, besides my only CInC was the Big Dog since I served from 93-00.

[LiberallyInclined]

27. I;ve never heard a marine go by the name of "Calico Jack"

Gingham Gary, yes...but i hadn't heard of Calico Jack til now :hi: Hi Jack!

[Calico Jack Rackham]

28. Calico Jack

the only Democrat who ever served in the Marines :evilgrin:

[LeighAnn]

8. Former Marine?

I thought once a Marine, a Marine for life!

Semper Fi!

[Boomer]

11. I'd choose a Marine...

over a homeowner's association any day.

[happyslug]

4. Here is the Court's Opinion: (PDF File)

http://www.4dca.org/opfrm.html

Go to 3-23-05,
Than go to the following:
4D03-3641-Andres, et al. v. Indian Creek Phase III-B Homeowner’s Association

[tsuki]

9. People buying into gated communities are given the rules before

they buy. When they purchase the home, they agree to the rules. That is why I do not live in a gated community.

[amber dog democrat]

10. agreed. I won't live in one either.

Have to deal with too much imposed conformity in my life as it is.

[trapper914]

12. My last neighborhood...

wasn't gated, was very middle class, and yes, we had an HOA with covenants.

While I'm not a big HOA fan, they can serve a purpose (keeping beaters off the yard, making sure lawns are mowed, etc.). Some of their rules were flat-out ridiculous. I think the flag pole rule is one of them (had the same rule in our neighborhood).

Still, this ruling seems to leave Florida HOA's completely null and void. They use the power of the lien to enforce their rules. If overruled on this one issue, I can see them enforcing anything.

[happyslug]

19. Read the Decision

The Appellant Court made the following ruling:
1. The Gated Community's covenants did NOT include Attorney's Fees at the time the Marine bought into the Gated Community.
2. Since the Covenants did NOT include Attorney's Fees Florida's exemption from Execution sale on one's Homestead prevented any selling of the Marine's home for this debt.


Now for all practical matter this ends this case, for while the Gated Community could try to collect on the Marines' other property that will be hard to do (He is A retired Marine and as such his pension can NOT to attached by FEDERAL LAW). I do not know Florida Personal Property exemption nor the assets of the Marine but it is hard to get any real money from a Personal Property Execution sale. Without the ability to sell his home nor attach his income, it wil be hard to enforce this Judgment. It also looks like the Marines assets are below the exemption levels of Florida so he is Judgment proof under Florida Law (But See below, looks like a Personal Property Sheriff Sale can be done):

Florida's Exemptions:
http://www.assetprotectionbook.com/florida.htm
http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0222/SEC01.HTM&Title=-%3E2003-%3ECh0222-%3ESection%2001#0222.01

The Personal Property exemptions in Florida do not look that great (Looks like restricted to a $1000 value in one Car), but to be sure someone would have to check with a Florida Attorney.

[NNN0LHI]

13. My community is not gated either. But we do have protective covenants

If a rule is allowed to be broken for one person even by a judge, that sets a precedent. I don't think I would be very happy if someone were allowed to purchase a lot out here and just use that lot to build a pole barn on to store their semi-trucks in. That might piss me off a bit.

Don

[trogdor]

14. That's a zoning thing.

I see your point, though. Nevertheless, the moral of the story is, read the convenants carefully before making an offer to buy the house. If you can't deal with them, don't buy; you wouldn't be happy there anyway.

/lives in unincorporated part of town

[NNN0LHI]

16. The town I live in has a population of about 1500 (including dogs and cats)

My town has no zoning prohibitions against this. Someone can even purchase a lot right in town and put a camper on it and live out of that if thats what they want to do. I have seen it. Zoning prohibitions vary from town to town here in Illinois.

Don

[tsuki]

23. And in Florida. But, it is also true that if one person is allowed to

break the covenants, they are voided. Some rules are simple, like no manufactured homes. Some are lengthy and detail, listing a host of prohibitions. But you are always given these rules before you make an offer.

[Orsino]

21. Know what I hate?

It's the (double, including the headline) mention of the poor fella's ex-Marine status, as though that has anything to do with his right to free speech or with his homeowner's contract. Knowing only what I read in the story, and what I was able to glean from the court opinion, it seems he should not have signed away his right to fly the flag however he chose.

Apparently, he did that anyway, and now does not want to live up to his agreement. "My flag still flies" does not show any acknowledgement of his responsibility under the contract, and makes him sound unreasonably stubborn.

Could he really not be bothered to purchase a smaller flag that would fly as he agreed?