Neb. Prodigy, 14, Dies in Apparent Suicide

[Kadie]

Neb. Prodigy, 14, Dies in Apparent Suicide
By JOE RUFF, Associated Press Writer

Friday, March 18, 2005

(03-18) 17:04 PST Omaha, Neb. (AP) --


A musical prodigy who completed high school at age 10 apparently killed himself at 14, authorities said.


Brandenn E. Bremmer, who taught himself how to read at 18 months and began playing the piano at 3, was found dead Tuesday at his home in southwest Nebraska with a gunshot wound to the head, sheriff's officials said.


Patricia Bremmer said her son showed no signs of depression, had just finished the art for the cover of a second CD of his music, and had plans for Wednesday. She did not disclose details of how he was found.


"We're rationalizing now," she said. "He had this excessive need to help people and teach people. ... He was so connected with the spiritual world, we felt he could hear people's needs and desires and their cries. We just felt like something touched him that day and he knew he had to leave" so his organs could be donated.

more...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/03/18/national/a161912S20.DTL

[Swede]

1. Sounds like a tortured soul.

So young to do this.

[Deja Q]

85. Uh-huh. Torture for 15, 30, 45, or 60 more years would be better.

Once you're branded or hurt, it stays. Not always in the same way, but it stays. And when hurt young, you learn to do things differently to cope.

I pity the now-deceased. For the society that must've hurt him, prove me to pity it.

[BrendaStarr]

95. Too smart and caring for Bushworld.

And it does hurt worse when you're young.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. That poor kid

Didn't anyone realize that that poor child, home-schooled and isolated, was probably lonely as hell?

Rest, baby. You're done here.

[saltpoint]

4. OldLeftieLawyer, I just a second ago read your post --

-- in this thread.

In the next life, can you please be in charge of all public education and parenting programs in the United States?

I want a second try under a system you're in charge of.

Your post was sublime.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

7. What a nice thing to say..............

How did anyone miss that little boy's missing being a little boy?

We'll all throw a prayer out for the poor honey.

[saltpoint]

9. I thought your post was one of the most affecting --

-- few lines I've read about another human being.

It was astonishing, OLL. It stopped me in my tracks and all I can say is how we could use a hell of a lot more of people like you running the show and a hell of a lot fewer of the people who are actually running it now.

It was compassionate and beautifully stated.

My thanks.

[Old and In the Way]

11. Hey you.

I getting tired of agreeing with you. We butted heads a few months back in the 9/11 forums, but goddam it, I can't disagree with any of these posts I read outside of there.

I totally concur. It's not only about the fact learning...it's about socialization, too. This kid was way too isolated in his short life here...should be a lesson to everyone that it's not just about how much you absorb, fact-wise...it's about connection with the world around you.

Good points, my friend...

[saltpoint]

12. Good tidings to you, O&ITW.

I read your posts no matter what topic & appreciate them.

thanks.

[Old and In the Way]

23. OK....truce on 9/11

:-)

[LeighAnn]

24. How does a kid like that get on in the public schools?

The smart kids at my school used to get tormented and abused.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

27. Yeah, but he never had a chance

That's the problem. The boy was always home-schooled, so he never had the chance to be a regular kid - even with the taunting - or to have a regular social life with other kids.

I got picked on for being smart, but I was no genius. Still, I was in the midst of kids my age for the developmental years, and that kind of socialization is part of why schools exist.

I am so suspicious of home-schooling. This just affirms my suspicions. Even if the kid was fast-tracked in regular school, and the other students were older than he was, at least he'd have been with other people.

Isolation for a child is just wrong.

[Lisa]

39. I wasn't anywhere in his league, and I was fast-tracked ...

I know that there was (and probably still is) debate about that, but since they moved a whole bunch of us at the same time, I did have classmates who were in the same situation. Sure, I got picked on in school -- but most other people did, for various reasons. If it wasn't being singled out as a "browner" (got better grades and/or worked harder), it was for being poor, or ethnic, or younger, or smaller than everyone else. At least this way, I had playground allies when the bullies came along. I hadn't thought of it this way before, OLL, but it's possible that this helped me later in life in hostile or confusing workplace situations -- I've managed to make at least one good friend everywhere I've ended up, even in "snakepits", and it's saved my sanity on numerous occasions.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

43. Bingo

There are all kinds of learning, and the academics, I sometimes think, are the least of it for kids, even kids like us.

This boy clearly never learned the coping and socialization behaviors that you and I had to learn, and the situation he was in wasn't able, apparently, to provide him the opportunity to learn them.

I ended up as a lawyer who can see every angle of a complicated situation, and I know I learned that in the schoolyard. It's that coping mechanism again, the adaptability, and some of us - you and me again, Lisa - were lucky in that we were able to incorporate it into our lives as we grew up.

[jhain]

49. my kids homeschool

and they do a TON more socializing than their public school peers could ever do.

That may not have been this case for this boy but please do not generalize about homeschooling.

One of my kids, like this boy, taught herself to read as a toddler.
When it came time for school I was told - direct quote here, folks-"We have absolutely nothing to offer you."

And, I was suppose to send her? To "nothing"?

We homeschool and I have REGULAR kids.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

57. Thank you...

I homeschool my 6 year old as well. I homeschooled my older boy from 4th grade through 9th, and the worst thing I ever did was get him back into public school. I could write a book about the reasons why I've chosen the course I have, and I'll be the first to admit that homeschooling has its challenges, but, for us at least, it's the best possible course for our bright and intensely sensitive six year old.

We're able to help him focus on his academics in an environment that is comfortable for him, and give him activities like drama class and swimming lessons and T-ball which give him the chance to get to know other kids and learn how to work and interact with them.

[SaveAmerica]

101. I don't think the socializing has anything to do with it, either way...

whether homeschooled socializing or public school socializing; to say this boy committed suicide* because he was homeschooled is wrong. Does that mean that all public school children have no emotional or psychological weaknesses and none commit suicide? There have been no cases of kids bullied and tortured who commit suicide?

* They say the case is being investigated and won't make a comment until they've finished, they almost make it sound like they doubt he committed suicide.

[July]

123. I didn't homeschool, but I completely support what you've done.

I wish I had done the same.

The public schools -- even in "good" districts -- have very little to offer gifted children. Both of my kids were in gifted programs, one of which was excellent -- for the 2 hours a week they were able to participate in it.

I say this with a heavy heart, because I support quality public education, and I'm the child of two teachers.

Socialization can be achieved in many ways, and was achieved before compulsory education (which has only been around for about a hundred years).

My nonconformist kids chafed at the system and followed their own paths, anyway.

I applaud you for doing what you think is best for your kids.

[catzies]

50. He had a "large mind" for sure; he also probably had a "large heart"

to share with the world, above his obvious gifts. I'm sorry we'll never get to know now. I hope he comes back, and gives us another chance.

[regnaD kciN]

59. Indulge in a little pigeonholing, shall we?

I am so suspicious of home-schooling. This just affirms my suspicions.

Well, a close friend of mine homeschooled her four sons (to keep them out of the fundie-dominated school system in their town in southwestern Oklahoma, BTW). All of them have either graduated from college or are currently attending same. Most of them wound up being accepted at college early. One, diagnosed with autism (for which the Oklahoma authorities recommended institutionalization), is now in a standard academic degree program at the University of Washington. All are quite well-adjusted in their personal lives; of the two that graduated from college, one is getting married this spring and moving on to graduate school, the other is well-established in both a career and a "living together" relationship with his long-term girlfriend.

Shall we thus change the score to Homeschooling Good 4, Homeschooling Bad 1? Or simply admit that one data point of anecdotal evidence, no matter how much it makes the news, is a rotten basis for passing judgement on a very large group of people?

:grr:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

71. How about we change your boardname to "trepxE loohcS emoH"?.....

Most of the kids I've met that were home-schooled are not very well-rounded. In general, they need quite a bit of time to adjust to educational environments that work on time schedules and involve varying amounts of other students and teachers. In short, they lack interpersonal skills, something that I'm beginning to sense from the tone of your posts.

Why don't you drop the "scoring" bit and stop acting like someone stepped on your pet turtle?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

84. There's a "score"?

I thought I was just offering my opinion.

So, someone's keeping score?

Hell, in that case, I'm in favor of everything.

Put me down for one of each and wrap it up for take-out.

[KaliTracy]

136. see post #135. I'm unsure if the characterization of isolation is

merited. While I've had my doubts about homeschooling as well (I have an aunt who homeschools 4 children, and wonder about what they have been taught -- though the children all have their strengths), I also have seen children thrive with homeschooling when traditional education didn't work for them -- for whatever reason. (A relative on my husband's side is homeschooling 4 children, and they excel in writing, music, math -- and are quite creative).

I would have to say that if in the brief synopsis posted by the original poster that the child was that advanced, he wouldn't have made it in traditional education at all. It's a myth that homeschooled children are kept away from other people (unless the parents are trying to isolate the children, as in the case of my Aunt, who has one neighbor about 1/2 mile away from her, and that's it). Lumping all homeschool situations into one pot is no better than lumping all traditional schools in one pot. Some may be better or worse, but it depends on the situation and the people involved.

[Old and In the Way]

31. Think about it.

I grew up in public schools. All the really smart kids were persecuted....but they were part of the school system. They interacted.

If we all become private schooled, think about the impact to society. Think about the problems we have on agreeing on basic things...like "how old is the Earth", "was the Civil War right or wrong"; if we stop supporting a common education system, we end up with a modern day Tower of Babel.

[regnaD kciN]

62. What utter BULLSHIT!

All the really smart kids were persecuted....but they were part of the school system.

"Sure, the Kosovars and Bosnians were horribly mistreated by the Serbs...but they were part of the Yugoslav political system."

:eyes:

Yep, I was "part of the school system" when I returned from Europe to a new town in the Northeast. Sure, being "part of the school system" meant that (because of my accent and "different" mannerisms) I received near-daily beatings from the other kids in my grade, and constant ostracism for three straight years. But just think of how bad it would have been for me if I hadn't been "privileged" to receive such "socialization!"

And, by the way, since you've changed the subject from the "evils" of homeschooling to the "evils" of private schooling...the only thing that saved me was being taken out of public school and sent to a boarding school (the same one John Kerry went to, BTW) which valued students for their individual gifts and differences, rather than turning their hatred on all who didn't conform to what a "normal all-American kid" was supposed to be.

Had I not been able to get away from being "part of the school system," I can say quite honestly that I may well have wound up choosing the same "solution" as that boy in Nebraska. :-(

[Media_Lies_Daily]

70. Based on the tone of your post,....

...I can definitely see why it was better for all concerned that you not stay in the public school system. Maybe the public school system didn't work for you, but it definitely works well when it's properly funded to pay for teachers, supplies, and new schools when necessary.

My family moved around quite a bit. I experienced much the same thing as you, but I dealt with it until I made new friends.

IMHO, you're taking shots at one of the better posters on DU...maybe you need to back away from the keyboard for a while.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

86. Did you know

that not only your screen name is backward, but so is your tone and style, not to mention the content?

Bragging is nice, but, for the most part, you've blown it.

Clearly, all the values of education and socialization were lost on you.

[MadisonProgressive]

87. I agree

Education is less than half the value of attending a public (or private) school. It helps you develop a thick enough hide to be able to adjust to the dog-eat-dog world waiting for you.

[KaliTracy]

135. um... is there a link that explains how he was isolated? just wondering

while I may not want to homeschool, I am not adverse to the idea, and wouldn't want to lump all homeschool children in a category of "isolated" and "unsocialized." I don't know his history, and your assumption may be correct. Alternative education isn't necessarily the catalyst to this tragedy. On the other hand, depending on circumstances unknown to me right now, his family/social interaction could have been a catalyst. At this time, this is unknown (unless there is published information somewhere, which I missed).

[Maat]

52. I agree.

OldLeftieLawyer is right.

That is why I'm determined not to push my kid (not hard anyway) to do anything.

She is required to behave at her little school (in which they love every kid and are very positive), and to try her best (for that day) and make gradual progress.

The kid next door is pushed by her mom to be a performer, and has been home-schooled. They are on a tour around the United States for six weeks, and that kid is performing every night. She is always looking wisfully (when she is home, that is)(did I spell that right?) at my little pampered princess, who gets taken to amusement parks and zoos (etc.).

I said a prayer for the child's soul/energy and the family.

[MadisonProgressive]

88. I agree again

Parenting should be like bumper bowling. The parents are the bumpers that prevent the kids from ending up in the gutter, otherwise let them do the bowling for themselves. They need to develop foremost a sense of who THEY are - and if the answer is 'an extension of my parents', then you're not doing your job as a parent.

[BigEdMustapha]

16. With all due respect...

First off let me say that this is a horrible tragedy. What I take exception with is your statement "home-schooled and isolated". There is nothing in the story that says this kid was isolated. In fact, it lists two separate colleges where he was taking classes and lessons. Granted a pre-teen at a college is not the best social environment, but I see nothing to conclude that this kid was isolated as a result of his home-schooling as you inferred. One could certainly argue that his advanced intelligence and progress through school made him isolated from those his age - but to semi-blame this on home-schooling is not right from the evidence given.

[NVMojo]

22. the point was that he was not allowed to be a child ....

[OldLeftieLawyer]

28. I implied

You inferred.

He was always homeschooled except for the seven months during which he finished high school. By definition, that homeschooling kept him out of the social mix that is regular school.

As a parent, I find that unhealthy and far too narrow for a smart kid.

There is nothing in the story that suggests to me that the boy was anything but isolated. Everything about him was academic, and that sort of imbalance is bound to have a deleterious effect on a young child.

[Old and In the Way]

37. That's the missing link.

Private schooling might, conceivebly, make you a tad smarter....BUT, whatever you might gain on technical knowledge, you lose...and then some, on socialization skills. It's not worth the trade-off.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

44. Bingo

Bingo, indeed. You nailed it, OAITW.

[regnaD kciN]

64. You only "nailed" your prejudices...

Guess what? There are a lot of ways for homeschooled students to interact with their peers and receive "socialization" other than within the walls of the local school.

Of course, if you are a fundie parent who homeschools specifically to "protect" your children from contact with the outside world, you're going to have a problem. But that is far from universal. Likewise, if you are too self-centered to bother giving your kids opportunities for interacting with others except to just shrug your shoulders and say, "Ship 'em off to school, they'll get all the 'socialization' they need there." But, you know what? If you're going to take the time to educate your children yourself, you're probably not going to be that apathetic, self-centered, and lazy.

As far as I'm concerned, this discussion is just about the same as can be found on wingnut boards whenever an African-American is arrested for a particularly heinous crime, and the posters there, in an orgy of self-congratulation over having been born white, trade comments on how this "proves" the moral inferiority of the colored race. They probably would assure each other that they "nailed it," too.

:grr:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

69. You're taking a simple set of opinions, and

going 'way off the boards with them, I think.

Of course there are different kinds of homeschooling experiences. Of that I have no doubt, and I do respect the parents who choose to take on such a huge responsibility.

All I'm saying - and you seem not to have understood it - is that I have seen far too many situations in which interests other than the child's were being served. In the case of this poor little boy's suicide, if you look at that situation, even in a cursory description, you'll see - especially if you're a parent - that it was an unhealthy and destructive set of circumstances.

Where you get the race issue is beyond me. I think you're probably working off an agenda of your own that has absolutely nothing to do with what I think of home schooling, or the fact that you just flew right up your own ass with that last paragraph.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

72. The only thing that you've "nailed" is the fact that you have a bit of....

...a personal attitude.

If this was the way you presented yourself during your three-year public school experience, it's no wonder other students tried to beat you up every day. It doesn't appear that you learned anything from those "lessons".

[coffeenap]

83. Your third paragraph is how it strikes me too. How disappointing

to find such prejudice here. (NOW I'm off to the peace rally.)

[MadisonProgressive]

89. Being 14 and going to school with 18-22 year olds?

That seems pretty isolating to me.

[coffeenap]

91. Being 14 in high school with the mind and soul of an adult

is pretty isolating too. Of course, you are still 14 and only have a 14 year olds experience in life--and thats what makes this whole thing so hard for them.

[MadisonProgressive]

151. You don't have the mind and soul of an adult

You are just a very intelligent 14 year old kid!

[qanda]

60. So why do kids who attend public school commit suicide?

[MadisonProgressive]

90. Always trying to change the subject!

[qanda]

94. Never answering the question!

[MadisonProgressive]

98. I guess we're even then

[qanda]

99. Since I wasn't talking to you in the first place

I guess we are.

[MadisonProgressive]

139. I'm glad we got that embarrasing episode behind us!

[qanda]

142. Yes

Now let me suggest you read a book by John Taylor Gatto called "Dumbing Us Down." It's really unbelievable that most Liberals are against homeschooling.

[MadisonProgressive]

146. I'm only against it for my own kids. Everyone else may do as they please.

[bitchkitty]

152. I'm not against it!

If a family can afford it and one of the parents is dedicated enough (and it takes extreme dedication), home schooling can mean a superior education.

The schools in my town are overrun by fundies - I don't have children, but if I did, I'd either move or home school.

[saltpoint]

3. Without knowing this young man and his family --

-- it still feels like a hard kick in the belly to lose someone who was so accomplished and attuned to others.

I hope people in Omaha there have a respectful way to honor his loss. People who are so wildly accomplished in music and the arts bear the grandest powers for the rest of us to enjoy and appreciate.

[Occulus]

81. I REALLY wish more people saw things that way.

Without expounding for an hour on exactly what happened, let's just say that I had more musical talent in my smallest finger than nearly all the other kids in my school system had in their whole bodies. This was evident from the time I was very young.

Nothing was done with that talent until I was 13 and joined band and choir on my own in middle school. Up until then, I didn't have even the slightest clue I was talented in any way... my parents and teachers just never bothered to clue me in; my mom tells me now they wanted me to have a "normal" childhood. Right. Sure.

I now know that creative, talented, and smart kids have nothing of the kind. Stupidity and mediocrity are virtues in this country.

But, consider this- I was getting teased and tormented by most of the other kids in my grade, and above, and below. I just did NOT "fit in", whatever that meant. People thought I was stupid when I paid hald for a piano when I was twelve. I taught myself how to play it, and play it well, and the people around me who were tormenting and teasing me the whole time only mocked that.

My answer was to just try harder, to do more. I thought maybe if I worked twice as hard as everyone around me, I might get half the recognition I was seeing them get from their peers and families.

That happened, for about a year. Then I went to college, my parents found out I was gay, my grades fell, and finally in the fall of 1995, my parents decided they weren't going to help me pay for school anymore because it was a waste of their money "if I wasn't going to try". Never mind I was staying under trees and in friends' dorm rooms at that point.... to save them money.

All throughout, I never once, from the time I was a small child until the time I had to leave college, felt as though I had any real 'allies' I could turn to. After getting yanked away from every group of friends I did manage to find not once, not twice, but three times in the space of two years, I just done gave up.

Creative people, in this country, are deeply misunderstood and unappreciated. If you're creative, but it's not "marketable" (as my talents were- I wanted to teach high school band, for Christ's sake; I played oboe, not a 'cool' instrument; I sang, but choral music and not pop; I didn't want fame or fortune- I only wanted to give something back), forget about "making it" in any way, especially if you're 'different' in other ways as well.

It never mattered that I had talent, even when I was a kid, because nobody bothered to clue me in to it; music made people a 'sissy' and a 'queer'. I always liked music class in elementary school and went nuts over the music classes in middle and high school, and that made me every schoolyard name in the book. When I started composing and arranging in sixth grade, well, it wasn't anything special at all. In fact, it was seen by many- including some teachers- as just another way to tear me apart.

I deeply regret the time I wasted on all that. I rather wish I'd never 'discovered' my talents. I would have been a much happier kid then, and a much more well-adjusted adult now.

My creativity and talents got me exactly dick. What I learned from all that is it's silly to believe you can do anything you want to if you only put your mind to it; I put my mind, heart, and soul into it, reached for what I saw as a star.... and got my hand chopped off for my trouble.

If the people around you don't want you to have, you won't. No matter how hard you try.

Sad lesson, huh?

(edited for stupid spelling and grammar errors)

[coffeenap]

108. There is support out there now--pm me if you want. nt

[American Tragedy]

124. Your story sounds eerily like my own.

Although my passions were not primarily music, I endured hell when I was in school. I literally get chills when I think of that entire period of my life, when people would laugh and grope and harrass me for being "different", and I never understood why. I still don't really understand why, since I make a concerted effort not to trouble others or let myself be a burden on anyone.

I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but throughout my years in school, I encountered a shocking number of authentic sociopaths, people who went out of their way to cause other individuals to suffer and clearly enjoyed it. When I was in elementary school, I thought that I attracted these kinds of people because I was a bad person who deserved their attention. Now, I don't know.

[KaliTracy]

137. thank you for sharing this. unfortunately your situation is played out

again over and over in traditional education, and those who have always "fit in" never really seem to grasp what it means not to. (I, for the record -- was one that "didn't fit in" for various reasons.)

Until the total child is recognized in educational situations ( though there are some public schools that do this), this kind of situation will continue to happen. It's not right, and it's not something that is talked about much when people are applauding public education.


and, on a personal note, wherever you are, and wherever you are heading -- may you go gentle in your journey....

[wickywom]

5. Reminds me of that J D Salinger short story.

[DearAbby]

6. Rest in peace Dear heart

[signmike]

8. "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation."

I believe Thoreau said that one. I don't know who said...
"If men knew how their lives would turn out, they would kill themselves."
:-(

[Lisa]

10. prodigies often have a rough time ...

Anyone remember the James Dallas Egbert case back in the 1970s? A brilliant teenager who was attending Michigan State University -- he attempted suicide a couple of times, disappeared and set off a nationwide search -- and shot himself the year after. He found it difficult to make friends, because kids his own age were turned off by the "prodigy" label (especially back then, when being "different" would get you beaten up and shunned).

I once met an 11-year-old who also had extraordinary musical abilities -- I'll never forget his first words to me -- "Do you think I'm weird?" He's now in his 20s and has a rock band that's been getting good play in England. If only things had turned out as happily for the Bremmer boy.

It's awful to think that having an "excessive need to help people and teach people" could be incompatible with the world as it is.

[oneold1-4u]

18. Special people

When children, are grown up in mind and yet cannot comprehend why they are special, their lives are not just difficult, they are almost impossible. Consider that A. Einstein was sent home from school as an unteachable! Most of his life outside of learning and teaching, was quite reclusive. Fortunately for Albert, he had another life with many great quirky humorist quotes to keep others on their toes.
A special child (prodigy if you must) should quickly be allowed to associate with their own kind whether another child, adult or elderly person. One cannot find their space alone as a child and most people have no idea how to help. Only their own can do this. It is so sad that we seldom truly make room for special people until they carry their own weight or die. Just think where this world would be today without Dr. Einstein.

[Lisa]

20. thinking more about that boy I met ...

He had a wonderful loving grandfather, a college professor, who would invite faculty members and students to his home to hear guest speakers or musical performances. I suspect that these events were scheduled on Friday or Saturday nights on purpose -- Jeremy was allowed to visit and stay up late for the occasion. His grandpa treated him seriously and respectfully, just like the adults, and Jeremy fit right in. (I suspect that a pretty large number of the visitors had faced some of the same problems, growing up ... I'm not talented, but some of my classmates there were just amazing.) I'd like to think that he felt a bit less lonely.

Unfortunately, if you haven't got someone like Jeremy's grandfather around, it's difficult to find people with similar interests -- when I was growing up, I used to hang around at a local natural history museum a lot, but I've been told that in the years after I moved away, it had to shut down its educational programs because of lack of funding. They're now supposed to do public information stuff through an Internet site. I know an astronomer who grew up in a poor part of Buffalo, and he had the same experience I did -- he said he wouldn't be a scientist today if not for their museum. As you say, imagine losing someone like Albert Einstein -- to suicide, or being obliged to make yourself "normal" (as my astronomer friend almost did).

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. I heard a sad story about the son of a professor at Yale

The kid was brilliant, and he attended a public elementary school, but he was so bright that he just couldn't relate to the other kids. He told one of my friends (who was a student of his father's), "I'm so glad my sister is starting school next year. I'll finally have someone who will talk to me." :-(

Parents of prodigies need to take extra care to make sure that their children can make friends with kids their own age.

I once knew a graduate student in math who was a "counselor" at a summer math school for bright high school students from around the state. He said that it was such a delight to see all these kids who were considered geeks and nerds in their home schools discover that they weren't alone.

[truthpusher]

13. Here's a paragraph I found on the young man...

http://www-stu.calvin.edu/chimes/2001.09.28/cmm1.html

Ten-year-old boy will be Colorado State U. freshman next spring

Rocky Mountain Collegian (Colorado State U.)

(U-WIRE) - Colorado State University will have one of the youngest high school graduates enrolled in the freshman class second semester. Brandenn Bremmer, a 10-year-old from Venango, Neb., graduated from an independent study high school program through the University of Nebraska-Lincoln this past June with a 3.7 GPA. He finished his junior and senior years in seven months by putting in 12-hour days, six days a week. Bremmer, who was home-schooled through high school, finished preschool, kindergarten and first grade by the age of three. According to his mother, Bremmer at first will take only one or two classes to get used to the classroom setting.

[LibDemAlways]

17. "He finished his junior and senior years in

seven months by putting in 12-hour days, six days a week."

Someone forgot that this boy was a child. Where were the hobbies, activities, and friends that are so crucial to the process of growing up?
No kid should be working twelve hours a day six days a week. Hell, adults can't handle that kind of schedule.
This is a sad, sad story.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

30. Amen

That's the point I've been trying to make.

A kid can't work at a job for those hours - the child labor laws prohibit it.

So why was he allowed to maintain such a schedule.

A horrible tragedy, yes, and I can't even imagine how the parents are going to deal with this.

All work and no play isn't good for anyone - especially a child.

[KaliTracy]

138. And yet we have Public Schools building new schools WITHOUT playgrounds

and have abolished recess:

"...In the name of standards, of making sure young children acquire what are billed as "skills for the global economy," schoolchildren across the country have no playtime. Atlanta made front-page headlines by building an elementary school with no playground. In 1998, a front page story in the New York Times featured a picture of an appealing little kindergartner in Atlanta, Toya Gray, who confided to the reporter that she'd like "to sit on the grass and look for ladybugs.

"Not a likely subject for front-page news in the newspaper of record? The Times zeroed in on the fact that in the name of standards and excellence, Toya's school, a new structure, was built very deliberately -- without a playground. Eliminating playgrounds from the blueprints is the new fad in school construction. In this way school personnel prove they are devoted to high standards. Lollygagging over ladybugs in not permitted for children being trained for a global economy. The then Atlanta superintendent of schools, Benjamin O. Canada, explained the policy, "We are intent on improving academic performance. You don't do that by having kids hanging on monkey bars." Funny thing. The U.S. Army acknowledges the need for a ten-minute break every hour during training sessions. Those in charge have determined that they get greater results in their training sessions when these short rest periods are inserted.

"From California to Chicago to Virgina, school districts have abolished recess. And even in districts where recess is still on the books, increasingly, children who score poorly on standardized tests are forced to forgo the play break. While their better-scoring peers play games outside, the low scorers must stay in the classroom to practice their skills. Distressed teachers have told me about this phenomenon in New York City, in rural upstate New York, in Florida, Texas, California, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Idaho. The kids who do well on tests get a play break. Those who don't test well get more skill drills, frequently referred to as kill drill. Ironically, as plenty of experts will testify, by taking away children's free time, schools are making it more difficult for them to pay attention. Particularly with the stress of test prep muzzling them in class, children need some free time. But Tom Walker, director of school management for Manatee County, Florida expresses a view that has taken hold across the country, telling the Sarasota Herald-Tribune, "We're in school basically for instruction, and recess, in most cases, does not provide instruction."

--From WHAT Happened to Recess and WHY are Our Children Struggling in Kindergarten? (2002) "Training the National Guard Way" pp 2-3
by Susan Ohanian ( http://www.susanohanian.org )


*****************

The reason I posted this is because I sense that there is a nostalgia factor in looking at public education. We don't know if he was so driven internally that he worked 12 hour days, or if his parents pushed him to work that hard. At this point, we simply don't know that. I know there were times where I practiced my instrument hours upon end, even after school, band practice, etc. was over. We don't know the situation (granted, 12 hours is a lot for anyone, but it also depends on what it is that a person is working on).

However, the Public Schools are getting rid of the very things that we wished this boy had in his life -- recess -- an opportunity to "socialize" on the playground -- "down-time." These are not isolated incidents -- when I was a child in school (oh, many moons ago to be sure) we had 3 recesses -- 2 fifteen minute recesses and a 30 minute recess after lunch. When I was teaching (taught 5 years, quit in 1998) students at the school I was at were given a 20 minute recess after lunch. And we wonder why kids can't sit still in their chairs, (and drug them instead).

Things are not what they were when we were young. It just isn't as simple as that.


(By the Way -- Susan has a new book out called Why Is Corporate America Bashing Our Public Schools? (2004).)

[MissB]

46. Holy shit.

12 hour days, six days a week? I cannot imagine.

Now, I don't have a child prodigy on my hands. I cannot imagine what it must be like to try to raise such a child.

I find myself typing out questions that I then erase. They seem so inappropriate, considering this child has died.

[Esra Star]

121. Poor kid didn't have a chance.

What systems are in place to stop this obscenity
occuring. There must be thousands who are moving
towards the precipice as we consider this loss.
fwiw I think the interaction at school is the most
appropriate socialiser.

[nonconformist]

14. Brilliant minds are so often tortured minds

Complex people have complex problems.

RIP dear boy.

[MODemocrat]

15. My heart goes out to that precious child

Was he featured on one of the television shows just a short time back, or am I thinking of someone else? God love that little fellow.
:cry:

[serryjw]

19. This is horribly sad but aren't we all

making the assumption that his genius was the cause? After 4 years of Bushit maybe is was something totally unrelated that was torturing him.

[NVMojo]

21. a highly "sensitive" soul ...rest in peace ....

[ngGale]

25. ((ECHO))

n/t

[coffeenap]

26. Has ANY one of you ever known a profoundly gifted kid?

I am raising one. With all due respect, you cannot know this situation without living in it. These parents loved, supported, and gave Brandenn everything within their power to give. He was adored, was not kept away from anything--he was in the world, in society. The decision to home school is not what makes the kid different--being different makes the parents decide to homeschool. When your kid knows more than the teachers, what are you supposed to do? Please, judge not, learn some about these people, and take a short walk in our parental shoes.

This loss is horrendous and is not the fault of his parents. I know.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

32. Yes, I've got experience

And I have to differ, respectfully.

There are all kinds of fast-track programs for kids who are so far ahead of the teachers there seems to be no place on earth for them.

I object to isolating them and keeping them so far out of the mainstream. It stunts other, vital parts of their development and leads to problems that might turn out to be insurmountable.

That boy worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week in order to get through high school in a few months. Where were his parents? I do not hold with the notion that "that's what he wanted to do."

Parents are still in charge, and who knows what the kid might have turned out to be if he'd been in a Little League or even just gone out bowling and horsing around with other kids once in a while.

It was just too narrow, and, clearly, he was unhappy. Witness what he did. Suicide is an act of depression and anger turned inward. I sense a situation where the boy was only valued for his freakiness.

[karlrschneider]

53. I can muster a modicum of empathy for this poor kid's dilemma...I skipped

two grades (second and fourth) and ended up being a couple years younger than most all my classmates in high school. I was considered to be somewhat of a 'nerd' or 'brain' but never subjected to any harrassment because of that, BUT it proved to be a disadvantage when I entered college - the truth is that I was really too young, chronologically and emotionally, for college. (And I was there on a National Merit Scholarship.)

So I did not do very well in college. Oh, I learned the material well, I can write out hundreds of equations in the fields of aerodynamics, thermodynamics, stress and strain in materials, dimensional analysis and other technical fields and have used them for 40 years in my work but I should have gotten better grades...I simply lacked the discipline to do the 'busy work' that was part of the requirements. All I'm saying is that I think I have a peripheral understanding of what this kid endured.
It's horribly sad.

[Maat]

54. As usual, OLL, you and I agree.

(Maybe it is because we both have J.D.s - just kidding).

When my daughter starts to get too obsessed with anything, I gently push her (encourage) her to give it a rest.

I was the straight-A student (not in law school - escaped by the skin of my teeth, in my 40's). I graduated when I was barely 17. How much did it matter? That six months to a year probably just didn't matter in the long run that much.

I've had a lot of adventures, and at least three careers (I like changing directions every now and again). It just makes me think that consistent progress is more important than anything else, and a chance to explore different things - including recreational things.

On edit:
The only thing that you and I disagree on is the Schiavo situation ... but I won't get into that - enough DUer blood has been figuratively shed on that one, so-to-speak.

[Tansy_Gold]

56. Little League and bright boys

In the early 90s, my husband coached our son's Little League team. We didn't know at the beginning of the season that the teams had been rigged, so when our team had two really good players and a bunch of not-so-good players, we didn't really think anything of it. But we discovered midway through the season that we'd been given all the really bad players in the league.

One of them was a boy I'll call Todd. Everyone knew he was the brightest kid in school, but he was also undersized and skinny, a real geek. His uniform was too big, his socks always fell down. he didn't know how to hold a glove or a bat. His hat fell over his eyes every time he batted. He was the youngest of five children in his family, and the only boy. He couldn't hit, couldn't throw, couldn't field. I'm not sure he even knew which way to first base.

No one in his family ever came to the games. His father was absent most of the time, and his mother and sisters couldn't be bothered. They had music and dancing and all their activities, but they had no time for Todd's.

Our team never won a single game that season. Every time we were up a few runs, the umpires or the other coaches would do something to make sure we didn't hold that lead. One particular night, when the cheating was particularly blatant, my husband told Todd to go ahead and take his position in the ourfield. The rules were "everyone plays," and while not all the teams abided by the rules, we did. Todd grabbed his glove and headed to the outfield. Of course, several runs scored, and Todd knew he was responsible for some of them. So when the inning finally ended and our boys got to bat, Todd told my husband, with all the wisdom of a 12-year-old, "You don't have to let me bat if you don't want to. I know I'm no good."

Todd batted. He struck out. It didn't matter. And no one on our team criticized him.

Though Todd was a genius at math and science, he hated English and as a result he failed some of his required classes in high school so he couldn't graduate. He couldn't get a job and he couldn't get into college to do the math and science that he loved. He wanted to be in a rock band, and he had the musical talent, but his parents would not give him the money for it, and he couldn't earn it himself.

One Tuesday night just before Thanksgiving, he went to a rock concert with some friends. When he came home, he shot himself in the head. He left no note. He was 20 years old.

[salin]

77. *sniffle*

that could have been a relative of mine. Thankfully they did take and interest, and did push him to stick with some of the sports that he loved, but knew he was awful at. He just wanted to belong. In middle school, one Christmas, he sadly stated how hard it was to be a "nerd". Broke our hearts - and we all chimed in with different experiences of degrees of our own nerdiness growing up. But while we are all bright - this kid is more than that - and by middle school was getting isolated.

The good thing, is that his comfort with being bad at a sport - but loving to play - has lead him to keep doing sports (even hurdles in track - though he often still knocks them over)... and kids have come around to accepting him. He too, has hated English and loved math - but his family kept him going so that he didn't just stop trying (or be successful at resisting which is more the case than not trying)... and he is starting to look at colleges... but as I read your story - that could have been the path so easily for this wonderful kid. My heart aches reading this.

[murielm99]

68. It is so hard to find a middle ground in this discussion.

Everyone here who had gifted kids has a very strong opinion about what is best for them.

And that is really the issue: what is best for the child.

I raised three gifted children. They all read before they went to school. My son read when he was three. Everyone in our small town thought we pushed our kids, but we did not.

We did not home school. Everyone I know who home schools is a fundie. I know that people home school for other reasons, but I would not have known where to start. And, my kids were so bright that I did not think I could meet their needs.

We took advantage of the gifted programs in school. I did enrichment things with them at home, if they were interested. They participated in sports, music, drama and scouts. They went camping. We tried to make sure they did not get too intense about any one subject.

My kids did have a hard time in school. Many of their peers were just downright nasty. We did everything we could to help them with that. They did have friends.

My two older kids finished high school at our state's gifted academy for math and science. They felt like they fit in for the first time. My youngest was more interested in languages, and did not go here. She kept a diary in hieroglyphics when she was nine years old, because her brother picked the lock and read her private thoughts. She is in Mexico right now.

One of the reasons I joined Mensa was to learn about their gifted programs, and about the experiences of some of the people there.

I counseled at a day camp for gifted kids. I had seven year olds. I remember them talking about their hurt and frustration. I had kids who pretended to be dumb in school. I had kids who cried every day when they talked about their experiences. One boy told us how hard it was to be fat AND smart. Maybe some of them should have been home schooled. But maybe they became better people by learning how to socialize in the real world.

I do understand why some people want to home school their gifted children. But don't be so defensive about it.

There were times that my kids were smarter than their teachers. They are smarter than me and my husband. But we got everything we could out of the public schools. If your kid really is gifted, the public schools can offer more than any individual parent.

[KaliTracy]

141. do all children fit into an organized sports/club situation? while I don't

mean to speak for the poor boy who has ended his life, I question that that is the answer. If your brain is fixed on solving a problem at work, are you willing take down time or do you try to solve the problem first?

Again, not speaking for Brandenn, but children who don't fit into a typical school situation don't easily fit into a club situation, either. I was extremely depressed and thought about suicide a lot from 13-15. I dropped a lot of the activities I did in eighth grade (like bowling) because I felt so out of place and unwanted in high school. I didn't acclimate. To top it off, my father was abusive to my brother and had just been diagnosed manic-depressive -- which he never treated besides going into the hospital for a few months. My mother worked all of the time in order to keep the bills paid. I was odd, isolated and alone in public education because I was quirky. I had a couple of friends, but I could never bring a friend to my house, (never sure how my father would be acting) and hardly was invited to anyone else's house. Sure, self-esteem played a huge part in this -- if I could look at that young girl now and tell her it would be OK, I would. I was involved in Band and Orchestra. I started writing instead, which saved my life.

Additionally, there was a suicide in my school, in the 1980s -- two boys made a pact, only one went through with it. They were both at the top of the class, gifted in many ways (the one who survived was gifted in music), had "good" families, and this rocked the school and the neighborhood. This happens in all sorts of situations, with children this age, it's not necessarily the homeschooling that is a catalyst.

edit:typo

[Lilith Velkor]

150. I was one.

Homeschooling was illegal back then. My mother sent me to public school and never let me skip any grades. I've been in and out of the nuthouse ever since.

[kalibex]

29. Lot of Assumptions being flung about here....

Based on the article's tone, doesn't sound to me as if he wasn't'allowed to be a child'.

Sure, we don't know all the fine details....but thus far it sounds to me as if he was (in general) doing exactly what a kid who also happened to have certain naturally advanced intellectual skills would be doing - being a kid, but using his mind, as well.

So his life ended (apparently) via suicide.

So something else was going on, true. But to immediately jump to the conclusion that his life must have been 'stolen' or something by those around him, is, well...

You know what they say about 'ass-u-mptions'...:evilgrin:

-B

[OldLeftieLawyer]

33. When I read of a pre-teen working .......

12 hours a day 6 days a week in order to get through high school in a few months, I'd say that's just wrong.

That's not an assumption; that's the thinking of a mother who knows that all kids need other things besides academics.

[coffeenap]

35. For them, it isn't "work"--it is what they want to do. It is their CHOICE.

We are not talking about pushing the chess club president to be better and faster, we are talking about someone who can read something once, understand it, keep it, and apply it. If each of us took only one exposure to learn something, we would learn just as fast. This is the state of being profoundly gifted. There is so little understanding of this condition that there is nowhere to turn but to ourselves.

No parent can make this kind of a person, they are born. As they grow, we discover that we are dealing with a human being different than ourselves. Please, I beg you, think about it differently.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

38. I undersatnd that

But I wouldn't let my kid get as deeply into gymnastics as she wanted to, because I believed she needed a more balanced life. That was my decision and responsibility as a parent.

I do understand - and even posted what you just repeated back to me - that these kids are driven. But, it's a parent's responsibility to teach the child balance, and on that, I could never think differently.

By the way, I was one of those gifted kids.

[coffeenap]

40. He wasn't driven--he was an artist and a scholar--it was joyful for him.

Maybe it wasn't joyful for you.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

42. You're missing my point

And, no, I had a stellar childhood, filled with all the things that made it complete, right down to two proms.

My point is that the parents have a role in directing the child into other avenues. You cannot feed a child one food just because it makes him happy. You make sure he had a balanced diet of food, just as you're obligated to make sure he has a balanced life.

Yes, he was an artist and a scholar. He was also a child, and the adults around him, sadly, seem to have forgotten that.

[coffeenap]

45. I am so glad you had a stellar childhood--how fortunate for you.

I wish Brandenn could have lived to say the same. I am going to go hug my kid and help his dreams come true. Good night.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

47. I'm glad you're glad for me

I hope your boy does really, really well, even if his mother is a tad defensive and frightened.

Good luck.

[coffeenap]

48. I really meant what I said about your childhood, Iam not being

defensive, I just believe something you do not. I am also not frightened--I am THRILLED--this kid is a wonderful human being and I thank the powers that he is part of my life and the life of his friends. Thank you for the disucussion. I am grieving for a lost kid, whatever the reason.

[havocmom]

58. Would like to back up the points you are trying to get across by pointing

out, no matter how gifted & bright a child is, he is still a child. A child does not have the life experiences yet which enable people to make informed choices about lifestyle. Twelve hours a day, six days a week was a very BAD lifestyle and there probably should have been some intervention there.

Parents should be commended for helping their kids excell, but when does the line get crossed? Parents still have to be the parents and that would mean trying to balance things so a kid has the best chance at growing healthy, not just bright.

Bragging rights are nice. Healthy, well rounded kids are nicer.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

80. That's exactly it

Granted, some gifted kids are destined to be "different" and not quite fit in in all the ways other kids do; but, that doesn't mean that they're not to be treated with the love and discipline required in parenting, and exposed to things that children do.

They're still children, no matter how brilliant they are. They're still kids.

You said it so well, havocmom.

[Tansy_Gold]

102. There was some kind of intervention

I don't understand this.

If Brandenn loved his self-imposed school work and got through high school by working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, why wasn't he "allowed" to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week?

Either someone was making him take a day off once a week, or someone was pushing him to work 72 hours a week.

If he didn't have the maturity and the wisdom to "stop" at a 40-hour week or a normal school-time week, then he didn't have the wisdom to stop at 72 hours. Someone made him stop.

The cynic in me is getting suspicious.


And, how does one "work" through pre-school and kindergarten in a few months? Isn't that the time one learns how to learn, how to play, how to get along with people? That's not the stuff that comes from a photographic memory that "learns" how to read at 18 months or calculus at 4.

I feel enormous pain for this child, and for his parents who may not have really known what to do with him. I'm jealous of those of you who had parents and education systems to help you get through fast-tracking and skipping grades -- I didn't have that. I was bored to tears from the day I set foot in kindergarten, and the few teachers I had for the next 13 years who DID know how to help me didn't have the resources or the support. And my parents refused to allow me to skip a grade, which in retrospect may or may not have been a good idea.

I do know that there is torment, to some extent or another, in every adolescent, and maybe more for those who see things through a different lens. Twenty-five years after I graduated high school, some of my peers told me they never asked me out or even tried to be friends with me because they were intimidated by me. What kind of a difference would it have made if someone had told me that in 1964?

It's not just a matter of education; it's socialization that doesn't come from special outings but rather from establishing membership in a peer group. And it's having someone around who really understands, who's been there and suffered through it and survived and triumphed. Somewhere along the line, some kids just don't find that niche, and some of them aren't equipped -- mentally, emotionally, even physically -- to cope without it.

I don't think any one individual or any one education program is to blame for this child's desperation. I think there might have been a better way to help him, and to help the others who are like him, but maybe we'll never find that way.

[Maat]

55. Once again, I agree.

The thing is, like with the kid next door, to many people, it seems like being an actress/singer is what she wants - but then Mama's hand is always on her back pushing her along.

Whenever I see her and Mom together, Mom is telling her what she can do so she won't mess up her hair, and what she can eat ...

[bloom]

109. I agree

I hear people making crazy assumptions about other people's parenting and it makes me cringe.

I would think parents of grown children would know better.

[Mz Pip]

34. Most kids develop

physically, intellectually and emotionally in a constant even manner. When one of those areas takes off way ahead of all the rest it is often at the expense of one of the others.

I have worked with gifted kids and where I have seen them suffer is emotionally and socially. They can be so bright intellectually but their emotions and social skills suffer. I remember one kid I taught who was reading at a very advanced level in Kindergarten. But socially he was about 2. He would bite other kids and had a very hard time with peer group interaction.

I had another kid in a fourth grade class who I actually had to tell to put his book down at recess and go outside and PLAY. He needed to learn to interact with other kids his age. I never thought I'd be telling a kid to stop reading, but I did with this one. By the end of the year he had made a friend. It took nine months. HIs making a friend meant more to me than his winning every damn spelling bee in the school.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[coffeenap]

36. This kid had friends. This kid had love.

[Mz Pip]

41. He killed himself

Something was very very wrong.

Maybe he was just very good at hiding it. I've known bright young people who have killed themselves and no one saw it coming. I have no answers here. It is a terrible tragedy. Who knows what this young person could have accomplished? We will never know.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[bettyellen]

51. this kid pretended he was happy. this kid grew up with a great deal less

opportunity for friendships than the average child. less time for himself. 6 days a week, 12 hours a day? that's very sad that this is allowed. that's too much for any kid.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

73. Right. That's why he blew his brains out.....

...did you even stop to think about what you were typing before you posted it?

If he was so well-adjusted, what the heck caused him to kill himself?

[coffeenap]

79. I never said well adjusted--these kids are never well adjusted in

the usual sense. It just doesn't happen that way. They are different. But they are wonderful--and if people could just embrace them for what they are, as we progressives have embraced gay people, then they would have a better chance at that happiness we all seek.

Going to a peace rally now--I wish all of you peace.

[Occulus]

97. Stupidity and mediocrity are VIRTUES here.

Creative kids aren't embraced, they are shunned. They aren't appreciated, by and large; they're vilified. And IF they happen to show they can succeed in their talents, surprise! There's someone there that dosn't want them to have that, who wants to beat them down, who encourages other people to do the same.

There's no defense to that. You can't ignore it, nor can you respond to it. Every response is wrong. Every word is stupid. Every action is 'faggy'.

In our press to have 'normal' kids, we're repressing the next Mozart, or Beethoven, or Picasso. We're driving to suicide the next Gershwins and Bernsteins. We're actively punishing the next Stephen Kings and Edgar Allen Poes and H. P. Lovecrafts. We're telling the next Einsteins and Salks that their pursuits are ungodly.

None of those people could ever possibly arise today.

We ar culturally doomed as a nation.

[coffeenap]

105. OMG--you said it. All of our progressive literature says, be yourself,

don't fit into the molds made for us! Think outside the box--be amazing.
Then when you really are, you are treated like shit. Imagine being 8 or 10 or 14 and knowing all of this and trying to live it! Imagine not only the kids around you don't understand you but the adults, like many here, don't either.

Give them a baseball team and a prom and a good action movie and they'll just fit right back in??? Bull! That is exactly like saying a gay person just hasn't found the "right" woman or man. PULEEZE! These kids are our future--if we don't support them AS THEY ARE we are indeed doomed.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

106. Kids aren't our future

Kids are their own, and we have no claim on them in OUR future.

That's that possessive attitude that keeps creeping up in these posts - that, somehow, parents have some sort of ownership interest in their offspring, when, in fact, kids are only on loan to us and it's our job, as parents, to do everything we can to make sure they're equipped and competent and ready to go into the world on their own.

You don't support kids AS THEY ARE. If my son likes pizza, that's good, but he's not going to have pizza for every meal because that's what he wants; one of my jobs is to make sure he gets a balanced diet. So is that true for every other aspect of his life - balance.

The notion that children arrive fully formed and somehow independent of us in terms of their development - physical, emotional, intellectual - is absurd and defeatist. A child is ours to take care of, to nurture, to protect, and, above all, to prepare for the world.

[coffeenap]

107. And nuturing and directing and helping grow is exactly what loving

parents do. And, we, my husband and I, are loving parents as are those of Brandenn. I have real personal knowledge of this. Of course no one is born fully formed, we agree on that, but I wouldn't have a 90 lb kid go play on a football team with kids who weigh 200--I might direct him or her to tennis or swimming or baseball. This is what we do, it is no different than what you are saying.

Of course the child does not lead, but if we are good parents, we let them have a say. We don't force them to live a life that is against their nature. This is what these parents did--they did not force him to live a life that was against his nature just to fit into our society's notion of normal.

None of us can know how Brandenn felt--not you and not me.

Can we find something to agree on here?

on edit:By our future, I meant of humanity, not of me as parent. I know my kids are on loan to me--I am SO glad to have the chance to help them grow up to be who they will be.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

111. We can agree

that none of us know the parents, or what the home situation was like for that kid, but we can infer from what we read about that child's life that he was deeply disturbed, probably profoundly depressed, and if it's true that the mother saw that poor little boy as some kind of saviour, well, we can also agree that the child was dealt a rotten hand.

[coffeenap]

113. No--I do know the parents, that's why I have been talking this way.

THe rest, ok, I'll take common ground where I can get it.

[Occulus]

144. Is there ANY indication at all that this *wasn't* a suicide? n/t

[coffeenap]

147. Not yet that I have heard. Let me clarify that I don't know them well-

and do not live near them. I have only heard that they are in seclusion now.

[Occulus]

148. I bet. My sympathies, if you happen to meet them at some point. n/t

edit : that's not a slam, BTW... I meant my sympathies to them...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

119. As one whose junior and senior high school years were hell,

made bearable only by the thought that I could escape to college, I identify fully with that post.

[Maple]

61. I doubt it was suicide

and I am amazed that in this day and age...and especially on this board, that people are so quick to believe the old myths about bright people also being 'crazy' or mentally unbalanced.

The 'fine line between genius and insanity' bilge.

I am also amazed to discover how many people insist that their views of 'normal' are some kind of standard everyone should adhere to...even if they have to be forced into it by parents.

[jasop]

66. I absolutely agree with you....

It is way too easy for people to get "suicided" and "accidented".

[LeighAnn]

67. What if he was murdered?

Doesn't even sound like they're entertaining that possibility.

Somebody may have killed the cure for cancer.

[kalibex]

74. Yup...

Bit insulting to the deceased, to be honest.

That simply because he was 'young', that assumption that he must've been driven or manipulated by others into a state where he would feel some need to kill himself. That implication, as you said, that he should have been 'forced' to have more 'balance' in his life.

I just think that situations where depression may be involved tend to be a bit more complicated than that.


But as as often is the case, everyone wants an easy, pat answer - & someone to Blame.

-B

[Maple]

149. Could be murder

Could have been accidental.

But to insist it was suicide in a normal healthy teen who had plans for the future...and even the next day...just because he was bright is ridiculous.

It's like the majority of posters here are saying that intelligence is abnormal!

And what does that say about your society??

[BreweryYardRat]

65. Oh, man...

A gifted (but nowhere near this guy's level) teenager checking in here.

It is hard as hell to be social and do all the things you should probably do to be a well-adjusted human being when you're smarter and younger than everyone else.

It's hard for me, and I didn't skip anywhere near the amount of grades this guy did. When you're lonely as hell because you're basically an outsider looking in, poorly socialized, you do despair and think about ending the pain.

We humans are social creatures-I suspect this kid's parents never let him get the social experience he needed to fit in with other people. My heart and soul go out to this kid's spirit. I hope he finds a happy afterlife.

[UpInArms]

75. Welcome to DU seawolf!

:hi:

[Tippy]

76. A lot of people here are speculating as to the cause...

The fact of the matter is we and those closest to him will never really know..I suspect he had one fleeting moment when his pain became go great he could no longer reason. Please don't try to place blame the parents will place enough on themselves to last a life time. My heart goes out to them and all who knew him personaly unless you have walked in their shoes you can not understand their pain.

[coffeenap]

78. Thank you, I will pass your message on to them. nt

[OldLeftieLawyer]

82. Well said, Seawolf

And welcome to DU!

Hang in there. Some of us went through the kind of stuff you're experiencing now, and we're here to tell you that it's all worth it, and you really are one of the luckiest ones.

Never despair - after all, we're here.

So, stay close, and be well. Thanks for a fine post.

[saltpoint]

103. Hey Seawolf -- a warm welcome to DU.

I echo OldLeftieLawyer's comments to you about welcome and belonging.

Welcome and welcome and welcome.

[NorthernSpy]

92. why do people assume that more socializing...

... would have stopped this boy from killing himself?

It is true that severe isolation can be a factor in depression and suicide, but this boy does not seem to have been isolated. Reportedly, he lived with his family, and he interacted with other people on a regular basis.

As IQ rises, so do the prevalence and degree of introversion. This is not pathological, though the extroverted majority insist upon treating it as though it were. Why should anyone assume that trying to live his life according to other people's norms would have made Brandenn Bremmer any happier or "better adjusted"?

Extroverts commit suicide every day. Funny how no one thinks to say about any of them, if only he had been less social, he might still be alive...


The arrogance of all such assumptions -- just incredible!

[coffeenap]

93. Thank you.

[Tippy]

96. Coffeenap...Check your messages

[kk897]

114. Agreed, Northern Spy

I know a guy man who is about the most gregarious fellow I've ever met, with hundreds of friends from all walks of life. He's a "natural leader" if there is such a thing--at least, he seems very well suited for the leadership roles he has taken. He also tried to kill himself.

I, myself, was a "gifted child," tormented by fellow students in public school. I *wished* I was homeschooled! I hated nearly every minute of public school, although I did manage to make friends from time to time and was really a responsible teen, surprisingly. I also tried to kill myself--many years after school, and school had NOTHING to do with it.

There is no reason to assume that a homeschooled child is also socially isolated, although he or she may be. There is no reason to assume that a socially isolated person is also suicidal, although he or she may be.

In fact, some people who try to or do kill themselves have every reason in the world to be happy. I find it somewhat ridiculous when people speculate about a suicide when they have no first-hand knowledge of the suicide's life and environment. Even when you do have first-hand knowledge, you can't really know what goes on in a suicide's mind.

Hate to quote The Boomtown Rats, but it's apt: sometimes "you can see no reasons because there ARE no reasons."

[OldLeftieLawyer]

115. Where is that from?

That correlation between higher IQs and degrees of introversion? I've never heard that before. Tell me more, or link me up, please?

Suicide is forever a mystery. I wrote a book - yeah, the kind you buy in bookstores - about suicide, among other things. The letters I got from readers left me numb for months.

It's not a mystery to me that people, especially kids, kill themselves. It is, though, a mystery to me why more people don't.

Read "Richard Cory," and then try to generalize, in any way, about suicide. No one knows, except the actor.

[American Tragedy]

129. Here's one link.

I suspect that the correlation has to do with the fact that people who are different, whether it be intelligence or some other factor, tend to have unpleasant or even traumatic social relations in their formative years.

teddevelopment.com/Articles/On%20Introversion.html

[WHAT]

100. "culling" won't work, if...

the exceptional is embedded in the ordinary, which it is...

[The_Casual_Observer]

104. I don't know, but the mom sounds like a nut case

Just a thought, but is it possible she was pushing a wee bit too hard?
"we felt he could hear people's needs and desires" she thought he was the son of god or something?

[bloom]

110. ...

yes - definitely - blame the mother - based on one line... :eyes:



:argh:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

117. Who blamed?

She does sound like a nut case, I agree.

Now, where do you find "blame" in that opinion?

[The_Casual_Observer]

132. I don't know, she sounds justifiably hysterical

However, the whole history of the boy is very extreme. I have worked with very brilliant youth in the past, but this one was way beyond the beyond. It would be easy to crack under all those expectations.

[coffeenap]

112. Link to a different article with a different perspective

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3634805,0

[OldLeftieLawyer]

116. Whoa

A kid doesn't just decide to kill himself and do it unless there's a severe pathology underlying that behavior. Granted, kids are impulsive, but the comments of the family members are so inappropriate and skewed, I am even further saddened by this poor kid's getting such a raw deal.

According to this article, he was a show pony. What a burden on a kid who was obviously living in a home with its own set of problems.

This quote:

"We're rationalizing now," said Patti Bremmer, the boy's mother. "He had this excessive need to help people and teach people.

"He didn't want to impose on anyone. He was so connected with the spiritual world, we felt he could hear people's needs and desires and their cries. We just felt like something touched him that day and he knew he had to leave."

is so disturbing. So terribly disturbing.

[Kadie]

120. I agree with you, very disturbing.

That quote from his mother really bothers me.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

125. (An aside)

I love that picture. Every time I see it, I fall in love all over again.

What is it?

(Should I know what it is, and is my ignorance showing?)

[Kadie]

130. An endangered Philippine tarsier

An endangered Philippine tarsier, believed to be the world's smallest primate, smiles for the camera at a breeding center in Loboc, Bohol island.

I had never seen one before I found the photo a week or so ago. He is so adorable I just had to add him to my sig line.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

131. Thank you, thank you!

I'm stealing that picture for my wallpaper, so thank you in advance.

But, by way of thanks, I offer you this:

[Kadie]

143. That's a good one.

Thanks!

[jus_the_facts]

118. Amazin' that no one's brought up the issue of the GUN he used.....

....guess he nor his parents were very bright on that subject. :(

[Dragonfly]

126. I was wondering about that myself,

as a plunge into the Colorado onlines newspapers yielded zilch so far about where the handgun came from and how he had access to it, given old and new studies about the prodigy psyche having an elevated risk of suicide.

Nothing about the Mom's reaction in particular suggests (at least to me) that she sees not even the possibility of a lack of parental oversight here. Maybe patience on how this sad tale unfolds will help me eventually understand how this could have happened.

There is a young man named Gregory Smith who is also a prodigy back East, Virginia, I think. I hope that there people out there trying to build support networks and peer socialization webs for these exceptional souls.

[jus_the_facts]

127. here's a snip from another article about his interests with guns...

The boy, who owned and handled guns like many other Westerners, was found dead in the family home about 5:45 p.m. Tuesday from a gunshot wound to the head, according to the Perkins County Sheriff's Office.

There were no indications of foul play, and the wound is being investigated as self-inflicted, a sheriff's news release said.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3634805,00.html

.....still not a real smart activity...regardless of your knowledge on the subject IMHO. x(

[Occulus]

145. Accidental, then?

I wonder.....

"The boy, who owned and handled guns like many other Westerners,"

Well, ok, I understand and appreciate that. But, had he ever handled a handgun before, or even seen one up close? He's looking at it, turns it to get a different view, boom.

I wonder, I really do.

[TexasBushwhacker]

128. Excellent point

Is southwest Nebraska a high crime area? This was published in the Omaha paper, but that's not where the boy lived.

[coffeenap]

122. Yes, it is bizarre. No question. I am just plain sorry, everyone.

He was a child. He had a life. He had gifts. He was special to many people, as most children are to someone. I hope it wasn't his parents' fault, I wish it hadn't happened. I wish he had whatever it was he needed. We'll never know what that was. I hope no one else has to go through this, but, unfortunately, someone will, and someone will blame someone. Peace.

[Senator Lamb]

133. i dont know all the facts

nor do i know the kid himself. but i doubt his homeschooling or ambitions were the things that caused this. maybe he just was on a higher level spirtually, intellectually, emotionally than most people and coudn't take this form of isolation. most genius, artists, actors are like this. it just was too much for him.

[jbnow]

134. What a loss

To the world, to those who loved him, to his potential future.

We don't know anything except that this is sad.

How much his genius or isolation or anything had to do with his suicide, who knows. Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among teenagers and there are dumb kids, average kids, smart kids, fat kids, skinny kids and so on who choose this. They can feel things so intensely and having access to a gun makes a momentary impulse too easy to carry out.

Losing someone to suicide, especially a child, is an unbearable weight. What should they have seen or done or known? So much guilt goes with the grief. My heart goes out to them

http://www.coolnurse.com/suicide.htm

An estimated 276,000 teenagers between the ages of 14 and 17 will try to kill themselves each year. About 5000 will succeed. (According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

<snip>
About 60% of teen suicide deaths occur using a hand gun. Teen girls attempt suicide far more often than guys (about nine times), but guys are about four times more likely to succeed. Why is this different? Male teens tend to use more deadly methods, like guns or hanging themselves.

This was a boy who seemed to have so much to live for and to offer, but the end of his story is all too common.

[frustrated_lefty]

140. Godspeed, Brandenn E. Bremmer.

All of this quibbling is irrelevant. Find your direction and sail towards it.

Peace and blessings.