Cattlemen challenge border closing under NAFTA

[CHIMO]

PICTURE BUTTE, ALTA. - Some Canadian cattle farmers took their arguments to reopen the U.S. border to NAFTA on Wednesday, saying the closure is a trade and investment dispute, not a response to the health threat of mad cow disease.

The Canadian Cattlemen for Fair Trade is claiming damages under Chapter 11 of the North American Free Trade Agreement. They say the actions of the U.S. government have given an unfair advantage to its own investors.

The lobby group says it represents more than 100 family businesses across Canada. It says their losses as a result of the closed border are more than $300 million.

"Free trade is on trial in this case," said Paskal.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/16/mad-cow-roundup-050316.html

[Spazito]

1. They are right, it is a trade issue...

it turns out the Association in the US that is fighting the opening of the border have also been up here buying our cattle at fire sale prices for when the border re-opens. Talk about hypocrisy! They are buying the same cattle they are saying are 'unsafe'.

U.S. producers buying cheap Canadian cattle

CALGARY - While a U.S. lobby group fights to keep the border closed to Canadian cattle, some of its members are taking advantage of low prices and buying up Alberta livestock, say some Alberta beef producers.

The Ranchers-Cattlemen Action Legal Fund, United Stockgrowers of America (R-CALF USA) has been active in keeping the border closed after a single case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy was found in Alberta more than a year ago.

In April, the group persuaded a judge in Montana to block Canadian beef exports after the U.S. Department of Agriculture expanded a list of acceptable beef shipments.

snip

Those arguments, however, aren't stopping members of the organization from quietly buying livestock in Canada at prices driven down by the mad cow crisis, in anticipation of the border reopening, feedlot owner Rick Pascal says.

more

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/06/15/bse_alta040615.html


It seems to me the Canadian Association has proof positive that it is a trade issue not a health and safety issue in the fact that the same US Association is purchasing the same cattle they say is unsafe so they can sell them in the US when the border re-opens.

Edited to fix posting error re link

[CHIMO]

2. One Would Think

That the simple fact that the USDA has stated that it is safe is enough to establish the the steps being taking are punitive and simply a means to block trade. It would then result in the agreement not being worth the paper that it is printed on or that the penalties are justified and everyone can get in line for the billions lost.

[Spazito]

4. Given that it matters not what NAFTA and the WTO rules

the US just ignores it if it goes against them, we should seriously consider giving notice to withdraw. NAFTA has been beneficial only, imo, to the corporations and not to the citizens of the countries involved.

[ClintonTyree]

5. Each day...........

I become more ashamed of being an American. My country certainly does not represent me. Capitalism is the root cause, greed will one day be the ruination of our country.

To all Canadians, I'm sorry. It must be horrible to have such a brutish and self-centered neighbor directly to the south. All apologies, at least from THIS American. :hi:

[CHIMO]

8. Well It Takes Two To Dance

And the negotiators were either corrupt or incompetent on the part of Canada. To top it off just yesterday a tripartite group of Canadian, US and Mexican corporations came out recommending greater integration. Even down to teachers in schools meeting similar standards for all three countries.

[Spazito]

15. Yep, this group bears close watching....

and investigation, imo. Manley is trying to sell Canada out, he will fail. Canadians are NOT in any mindset to accept what he and his little elitist corporate group are trying to sell. I bet this little clique is ticked at both bush and Martin for causing Canadians to pay more attention to what we don't want with regard to our relations with the US.

They might have been able to sell this under Clinton, I can't see it succeeding as long as bush is at the helm.

(Hope I am not 'wishful thinking', lol)

[Spazito]

9. No need to apologize, we all need to fight the greed and

corporatists on both sides of the border. I dispose bush NOT the average US citizen although, to be honest, it didn't start with bush nor will it end with him but his admin sure has exacerbated it.

[HereSince1628]

3. I'd say that's hedging their bets...and they understand the game

Of course, Canadian beef will ultimately be allowed back in the US.

It takes available dollars, not brains, to align yourself with the inevitable. They have the dollars.

But the US public is who needs to be convinced. The US Admin is going to game this issue until US citizens percieve Canadian beef as safe.

[CHIMO]

6. May Be The Question

In the US. But is not the question in Canada. Does NAFTA mean anything to Canada?
Is it simply a one way street where things will be purchased only when it suits the US interests.

[Spazito]

7. "perceive"? Canadian beef is safe based on all tests

The US Association is falsely using the sale of 'perception' in saying the beef is unsafe while buying the same beef.

I would suggest you research the various tests done on US cattle and Canadian cattle: what % of cattle are tested, how often, what safety measures are in place. I think you will be very surprised at which country has the better safeguards.

[HereSince1628]

10. I have no doubt about the REAL testworthyness of Canadian beef

I'd eat a steak in a Canadian restaurant without concern.

But, the facts aren't really the issue in the American market place.
It's the willingness of people to buy.

So long as US producers can keep the perception that it is questionably safe going the longer they eliminate a nearby competitor.

[CHIMO]

11. Then What Is The Use of NAFTA

If you could possibly explain that to me.

[HereSince1628]

13. Hey, I'm with you. I'm just telling you how the US capital interests

are going to play the game.

If they can prevent competition with some legal trickery they will.

When country's play with the US they MUST understand that the US perception of fairness is based on our WINNING the competition.

[CHIMO]

14. So In Effect

If I understand you correctly it doesn't matter what the intent of the rules are between two governments when the US is one of the parties as they will continually try to frustrate the intent. ie the federal government has no authority in maintaining agreements when it does not suit them. That is the way it appears north of the border.

[HereSince1628]

16. I think you get my point. American corps are into gaming the rules

This is precisely the problem with the lassiez faire system that the Neocons, and the DLC are pushing.

And I'm not even sure the corporations are truly American anymore. They may just be international investment groups operating on our turf.

You and I both know that Canadians didn't see the US corporations playing fairly in the late '90's when there was a Democratic administation. Just think softwoods.

[CHIMO]

17. I Understand You Point

However, NAFTA goes farther than simply trade. It obligates governments to override local desires. In effect it gives corporations a standing on international issues when it comes to trade. And as seen from the North the US is not upholding its part of the bargain. Note that this is a bit ironic as the group most injured in the beef dispute are in Alberta and this is the source of the oil for the US. The US imports more oil from Canada than any other country and one would think that the WH would be bending over back wards to prevent discontent from this area of Canada.
The agreement also has a great impact on natural resources and who has authority over them.

[Spazito]

12. Ahhh, I totally agree with that

I must have misunderstood your original post, sorry about that. Sadly, NAFTA could have been of benefit to the three countries if honesty, integrity and ethics were practised instead of greed, protectionism and outsourcing to increase corporate profits.