Nicola said, 'You are free. Come with me.' Then they shot (new info)

[DoYouEverWonder]

13 March 2005

<snip>

I did not see any check points. I was looking at Nicola. I was euphoric. He and his colleague turned on the light in the car, maybe to make the phone calls, maybe for security reasons, because the first rule is show your face. The journey lasted for 20 minutes, half an hour, no longer. I remember an underpass, but I didn't pay attention to the road. After that another 700 metres, and then the shots.

The gunfire came from the right-hand side, the side where Nicola was sitting. I did not see any beam of light. I only heard the burst of gunfire. The major who was driving saw it, but the shots arrived at the same time as the light, against all the rules. It was fired on the car and not at the engine. I know that the shots reached the car immediately; no one shot in the air.

The officer who was driving got out of the car shouting: "We are Italians!" But Nicola did not say another word. He had thrown himself on me while I was trying to slide down between the two seats, as far as I could go. He saved my life.

The driver had got out of the car. I couldn't believe the Americans were attacking us. I stayed in the car. The Americans illuminated the area with their headlights and I saw a tank about 10 metres from the road, on the right-hand side. How the thing happened made one think it was an ambush - what else could one think? The officer had stepped out of the car, and made a phone call, I think, to Rome: "Nicola is dead. She is out of it but her eyes are open ..."

I could feel Nicola on top of me. I tried to move him but I couldn't manage it. In that moment the soldiers approached, seven or eight of them. They opened the car door on the right-hand side; they understood that Nicola was dead and they picked him up. They looked dumbfounded. I think one of them said, "Oh shit," then he called out: "One of them is dead." Then they came round my side, on the left. They opened the door. But I was blocked in. On the seat I could feel a mountain of bullets, and what I had in my shoulder was more than just glass splinters.

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=619537

No wonder they only released pictures of the left side of the car.

[merwin]

1. Wonder why this isn't making front page in the USA? Damn liberal media!!

[AuntiBush]

38. Do you really need to ask?

And you mean, "real" "free" and "truthful" media! MediaWhores!

[hector459]

53. FOX "News" all the time: reporting mostly on captured killer in GA.

Hardly covering shooting in WI and certainly not covering the Nicola killing.

[ebayfool]

2. No kidding, right side only!

Has the car reached Italy, yet? Sounds like someone had an idea she was expected on that road, if he thought to ask her if she was the journalist that was kidnapped.

snip/
Then whispering in my ear, one of them asked me: "Are you the journalist that was kidnapped?"

[bemildred]

4. The car is staying in Iraq, last I heard. nt

[NYC]

6. When and where did you hear that?

The car was supposed to go to Italy.

[bemildred]

26. Here:

Read carefully, lots of weasely language:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1304095&mesg_id=1304194&page=

[bpilgrim]

39. sorry, wrong forumn

D'oh!

peace

[NYC]

66. Thanks a lot.

Going to read it now.

:hi:

[bemildred]

3. Fascinating, thank you. nt

[lovuian]

5. This goes down as one of the most embarassing moments

for America
Next to ABu Ghahib
Canadians taking out by friendly fire
and the journalists fired on

Do we have control over there Do We???

[Mr_Spock]

13. I remember the first car I saw shot up on TV last year

It was shortly after a car bombing in Iraq and the troops were very jittery. It was live on CNN before they went to the dark side. A car was rolling at about 5 MPH up to a checkpoint in the middle of the highway - these people had no idea what was going on. The soldiers yelled STOP!in english repeatedly - but the car just rolled very very slowly toward them - as if to ask a question of the troops. When the car was within 30 feet or so of the soldiers, they simply opened fire on the car - no warning shots, only the yelling of "STOP" in a foreign language to the driver and some wavng motion with the hands.

The car was riddled with hundreds of bullets on live TV (late at night) - I watched in horror knowing that these were just innocent people who didn't understand why the highway was blocked off and what the soldiers were saying. They later confirmed that it was a family - woman and children included - all dead. I'll never forget those images as long as I live. You'll never see them because I'm sure they're locked away somewhere. Gotta support the war effort ya know :-(

[VegasWolf]

7. Gotta be careful not to embarrass the nose picker. n/t

[daleo]

8. Here is the new right wing talking point:

"On the seat I could feel a mountain of bullets,"

There is no way she could have felt a mountain of bullets. Why a mountain of bullets would be at least 5000 feet high, and could never fit in a car. Furthermore, it would take years of firing millions of guns to produce a mountain of bullets...she changed her story from 400 rounds to a mountain of bullets...blah...blah.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[On the Road]

25. Where is Your Irony Detector, Man?

Plus, it's a violation of DU rules to threaten people with being tombstoned.

[daleo]

67. Sounds like somebody didn't get the sarcasm

Thanks for speaking up for me. It is hard to believe anyone could miss the irony, though. The ...blah, blah, blah... bit was put in to make it obvious.

[bklyncowgirl]

11. Crappy translation?

I have a feeling that alot of the miscommunication has to do with the problems of translation and/or Sgrena's less than perfect command of the english language e.g. saying tank when she meant to say armored personnel carrier.

[all.of.me]

28. i have noticed that these translations are

very literal. it's as though they put the page into an automatic translator. they need a human translator. period.

[Bark Bark Bark]

9. Rational Explanation

"We wuz jus' tryin' ta liberate the stoopid b****. Them's 'Merican bullets! The best bullets in tha whole damn world! Ungrateful commie-rat w****."

Still waiting for Ann Coulter to say it: "Italy should be grateful we allow it to exist on the same planet as we do." (A variation on what she ACTUALLY said about Canada.)

[Charles19]

24. Or she will say something like this:

Still waiting for Ann Coulter to say it: "Italy should be grateful we allow it to exist on the same planet as we do."

Hehe yah or say "it was the weak Italians fault they didn't build themselves their own airports and roads to use in Iraq because they belong to us and we will shoot who we please on them."

[0007]

12. I'm convinced that this was a Nicaragua Negroponte special!

[leftchick]

15. me too

this was no mistake.

[hue]

22. me three!

Well we can't just say, "What a coincidence!"

[bemildred]

27. Me four. nt

[chomskysright]

52. KICK!

[Nothing Without Hope]

29. The shooters were Negroponte security. And the photo forensics are damning

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1299174

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. troops who mistakenly killed an Italian intelligence agent last week on the road to Baghdad's international airport were part of extra security provided by the U.S. Army to protect U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte, a U.S. official said Thursday.
(snip)
"The mobile patrol was there to enhance security because Ambassador Negroponte was expected through," U.S. Embassy spokesman Robert Callahan said, confirming reports in Italian media. The newspaper La Repubblica reported Wednesday that the checkpoint had been "set up to protect the passage of Ambassador Negroponte."

Even with only one-sided photos to work with, the forensics look damning:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1651147

Instead of a general peppering, we see a few precise individual shots. Two bullet holes in the front windscreen are low down and ahead of the driver. A third bullet hole is visible in the driver's side rear passenger window -high up. This was one of the head shots.

The other side of the car probably has an interesting tale to tell also, as any unfettered Italian forensics examination will in due course show.

This damage to the car is consistent with a precision ambush. It is inconsistent with a typical US military attack on a vehicle perceived to be a threat - no matter how many rounds were fired. (more in original article)

Last I heard, a couple of days back, the US military was claiming the car had been "lost," which of course is a damning admission since it is so clearly a ploy to prevent forensic examination. Does anyone know if it has now magically been "found," when the international outrage has risen high enough for pressure?

As for the US corporate media (except for Keith Olbermann, who has been covering the Sgrena shooting on MSNBC), the Michael Jackson trial has provided timely distraction. Besides, they seem to be implying, who cares about a few shot-up Italians when over 100,000 Iraqi civilians and over 1000 Americans are dead in Iraq, and that hasn't elicited all that much concern? Especially all those dead Iraqis. And all the maimed, the bereaved, the orphaned? Hey, the Michael Jackson trial is more interesting, judging by coverage in the US corporate media.

It is a bitter horror to see my country brought to such a squalid, contemptible level, with most of its citizens unaware or uncaring of what has happened and is continuing to unfold. The Sgrena shooting scandal is just one more in an accelerating avalanche of violence, corruption, greed, deception and horror, and the national blindness -- encouraged by the compliant media -- continues.

The Sgrena shooting and its aftermath is the outrage that may complete the alienation of many Europeans against the United States. A bitter irony is that the election was stolen, another crime of this gang of monsters, and the answer to the accusatory "Why did you elect him?" is actually "We didn't." The division and fear-mongering and distraction have worked well on the American public. They sit and watch the bizarre and sordid stories from Michael Jackson's trial while the things that matter, including their country, go to hell.

[hue]

30. Where there's Negroponte there's an assassination! n/t

[bemildred]

31. See post #26. nt

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. We are like a bunch of Davids

fighting against the Goliath. Sometimes it seems so hopeless.

Even my own mother, a lifelong liberal Dem, was spouting the party line on this story. Don't worry, I enlightened her. But for someone who is surprisingly well informed, she had this story totally wrong. First, she said, but they were speeding. No. But they ran through a check point. No. She was a communist. So?

I then informed my mom, that Sgrena was an anti-war journalist and this is what the US does to anti-war journalists. Especially, the ones who have evidence of the US's numereous war crimes.

[Nothing Without Hope]

34. You were able to convince your mother with the truth.

Yes, she trusts you, but she was still arguing for the TV propaganda until you countered it with the truth. That is encouraging, since it shows that the truth CAN be believed if it is presented in the right way. That is our task, to get the truth and get the message out to people who are not accessing the real news on the internet. And then to push as hard as we can to elect representatives who are not beholden to the criminal cartel that has usurped and preyed on this country.

How did she react after you finally made her see what had happened? Was she really alarmed? Still doubtful? Angry?

[DoYouEverWonder]

37. It wasn't hard

Like I said, for the most part my mom is very well informed. She's a lifelong liberal and a big Hillary supporter. The part that upset me is that despite all that, she was still buying the party line on this story and didn't even know it, because it's the only story she had heard. That's what we are up against folks.

[me b zola]

68. I've heard a few journalists say

that all high ranking officials and embassadors are heliocoptered from the airport to the green zone because it is too dangerous to take the airport road into Baghdad. So we are supposed to believe that Negroponte doesn't want that protection and wants to cowboy it into Baghdad.

Nobody can believe anything that this administration says.

[Nothing Without Hope]

41. Me five! Both the kidnapping and the hit were US-directed

and the kidnappers were SUPPOSED to kill her. It's the only thing that makes sense, if it can be called sense.

[Spinoza]

58. Me Six!

The kidnapping and the hit were absolutely U.S. directed, planned and carried out. All the soldiers at the checkpoint must have been in on it the hit. Somehow we have to MAKe them talk!

[DoYouEverWonder]

60. No, you could actually do it with just a few people

the soldiers that did the ambush may have just been following orders or were given bad intel on purpose.

[Nothing Without Hope]

62. The shooters were chosen because they are trained and will NOT talk

Who's scarier than Negroponte and his all-powerful, unchecked, totally secret army of criminal goons, backed up by Rumsfeld, Cheney, and the whole cartel?

Only the greatest courage and integrity, combined with the knowledge that what was done was wrong (their instructions may well have told them that the hit was for national security) could induce one of them to step forward.

They would then be killed outright by the Negroponte thugs -- pity about those "ruthless insurgents" arranging all these killings, isn't it? -- or smeared and suppressed and put out of range of any microphone. Even their family at home wouldn't be safe - got to discourage anybody else from whistleblowing, right?

[MADem]

42. Supposedly, that additional patrol/'roving' checkpoint

...was added to the complement already on the airport road for the express purpose of augmenting the security environment in support of a visit by Negroponte. Had he not been coming in theatre, they would not have been there.

[Judi Lynn]

46. You've GOT it, 0007. That's on his list of known talents elsewhere. n/t

[Mr_Spock]

14. I saw a car shot up last year - late at night on CNN - happens a lot

It was shortly after a car bombing in Iraq and the troops were very jittery. It was live on CNN before they went to the dark side. A car was rolling at about 5 MPH up to a checkpoint in the middle of the highway - these people had no idea what was going on. The soldiers yelled STOP!in english repeatedly - but the car just rolled very very slowly toward them - as if to ask a question of the troops. When the car was within 30 feet or so of the soldiers, they simply opened fire on the car - no warning shots, only the yelling of "STOP" in a foreign language to the driver and some wavng motion with the hands.

The car was riddled with hundreds of bullets on live TV (late at night) - I watched in horror knowing that these were just innocent people who didn't understand why the highway was blocked off and what the soldiers were saying. They later confirmed that it was a family - woman and children included - all dead. I'll never forget those images as long as I live. You'll never see them because I'm sure they're locked away somewhere. Gotta support the war effort ya know

[leftchick]

16. it happens every single day in Iraq..

innocent Iraqis, jumpy soldiers do not a good mix make. :(

[Blackthorn]

17. Notice the front of the car...

...and remember the "official" story? The claims they "shot at the engine block"? Looks remarkably intact considering a handful of SMG's unloaded into it.

[Judi Lynn]

47. Yes, it DOES look intact, doesn't it? I noticed it, too.

It appeared they really didn't want to give it over to the Italian authorities.

Welcome to D.U. :hi: :hi:

[Mr_Spock]

23. I'm glad that we saved them from rape, murder and torture.

Because we are pure.

[hue]

18. How did the driver survive?

He even got out of the car and could(had the presence of mind to) make a phone call in that situation. It seems he was unflapable.

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. Fortunately for the driver

the attack came from the right side of the car. It seems apparent that they weren't aiming at the engine block or the driver.

[leftchick]

20. exactly...

Negroponte?

[hue]

21. This sure smells like it! n/t

[Algomas]

33. My .02

It is interesting that she was warned by her kidnappers to be careful because "it is the Americans who do not want you released". This indicates that she was kidnapped at the request of the US. How many other kidnappings, murders and car bombs have been perpetrated by us? It is also interesting that the kidnappers took the cash from Italy and let her go. This tells me that our grip on the "insurgents" is not so tight. These guys have probably melted into the woodwork with their ransom, laughing at the stupid Americans. The soldiers on the road that night were probably told they were ambushing some terrorists.

[Nothing Without Hope]

35. I agree. Her kidnapping was arranged by the US.

Why would the Iraqis want to silence her? She was writing things they wanted heard and from earlier stories from kidnapped journalists, they do check the internet for what their prisoner has been writing. But the AMERICANS, now... Not only would this remove another troublesome dissenting journalist, it would discourage others from honesty and whip up more hatred and fear back home for the Iraqi insurgents. A plan that has been used before, I'm sure.

Then the money was too much, and perhaps also the opportunity to defy and embarrass the Americans, and they let her go. Negroponte's "special security" then had clean-up duty, but they missed the journalist.

They are STILL spinning as hard as they can, trying to shift the blame in whatever direction will get it off them and striving to suppress the damning evidence of a targeted hit. Thanks to the Michael Jackson trial and the total compliance of the US corporate media (except for Keith Olbermann), this has worked pretty well domestically. But Karl Rove can't suppress the world press, and this outrage may be what completes the alienation of many people in the rest of the world that were among the shrinking number that still admired or trusted our country.

[bvar22]

36. "Troops hidden off the side of the road..."

...is not a "Security Checkpoint". A blocking structure (even several armed security officers) placed Across the Roadway is "security checkpoint".

"Troops placed off to the side of a roadway" is called an ambush!

[Nothing Without Hope]

40. Yeah, and they were "special security" specifically assigned to Negroponte

But of course, you never hear that from the compliant US corporate media.

[BiggJawn]

43. "But it was an accident!"

I'll never believe that 100%.

Someday, we will find out that a Very Important Shadowy Person made a phone call to a checkpoint "warning" them that a suicide car was on its way.

Yeah, delete this post, call me fucking looneytoons, say I hate Murka, What-EH-Vah.

So sayeth my gut.

[Judi Lynn]

49. Giuliana said they even turned on the interior lights of the car

and drove for quite a while completely illuminated to show they were not a threat. This is so sad. They KNEW they were being watched carefully and were trying their best to make sure it was known they were not the enemy.

I hope the truth DOES come out. This has been the Teflon Chimp so far. He's building up a real karmic debt.

[leftchick]

44. It was a homicide and attempted homicide...

not "friendly fire".

[DoYouEverWonder]

45. Then they covered up the evidence

by destroying the crime scene and cleaning up the car.

[gordianot]

48. On another thread at DU I called this a hit.

And was later directly implied that was "moon bat" thinking.

I still maintain it was most probably a hit, not an accident.

[bvar22]

50. It has all the symptoms of a HIT!

I can't PROVE it. I can listen to the witnesses and compare their story to the Official US Government Approved version and use critial thinking to choose which version is more plausible and accounts for the known facts. The Government CoverStory STINKS!!!

There is a LOUD but small (rude) minority at DU that discourage thinking outside the Official Government Story. The same screen names working in teams to disrupt the continuity of thought with many postings to the same thread. How many posts does it take to state your opinion? How many posts repeating the same viewpoint over and over again does it take to disrupt a thread?

It would appear that some people's mission in life is to discredit creative thought and opinion. Nice work if you can find it. I wonder how much it pays?

[DoYouEverWonder]

51. I asked a poster last weekend

if he/she got time and a half for working Saturdays and he got all offended. I don't know why? It's not like I asked him if he shopped at Brooks Brothers.

[gordianot]

59. I wonder how much attention is paid to bloggers.

I have a feeling much more than many of us suspect, they just don't have the time for real suppression. A few disruptor's with a subtle message would go a long way. I use similar tactics with freep relatives and acquittance's (I no longer claim Repug friends). When I speak to these slugs I never express what I really think.

[Nothing Without Hope]

64. I've been saying I thought it was a hit from the beginning, and I haven't

been called a moon bat yet. It's the best explanation for everything we know so far about the shooting and the people involved at all levels.

I've discussed this in about 5 threads so far, and no one has accused me of being too far out or a nutty conspiracy theorist. Each new piece of information just makes the conclusion firmer.

I imagine the frequency of accusations of Moon Bat-dom have dropped quite a bit around here. It is a tragedy that the truth is being concealed from the American people and that there will be no justice and no protection from future acts of this kind as things are now.

The cartel WANTS the rest of the world to be afraid of us, and for the more effective dissident journalists to be silenced by fear or their own governments or by assassination if all else fails.

[gordianot]

70. I completely agree with you. It sounds like a hit.

This was a rather intersting thread.

[chomskysright]

54. all this (&more) sent to Aljazeera/ Sgreena paper:[e-mail]

[chomskysright]

55. Sgrena is being told to shut-up by Berscolini (ties to Bush)....

http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=2&p=10329&s2=13

"it all adds up, it appears that John Negroponte became aware that Giuliana Sgrena was leaving Iraq with dangerous information about what American forces had been up to in committing war crimes in Falluja. Negroponte's experience in Honduras (12) gave him a certain expertise in covering up human rights violations, and he ordered his own personal bodyguard to assassinate Sgrena in a staged incident which was supposed to look like the usual problem at an American checkpoint in Iraq. The almost complete lack of damage to the car is inconsistent with the wild firing that is supposed to have happened, unless the Americans were intending to miss. The one shot that was supposed to count was the sniper shot to Sgrena, but that bullet was taken by Nicola Calipari. Had the shot hit Sgrena, we would never have heard about any of the details as the only witness who would have talked would be dead. It would simply be another unfortunate checkpoint incident, the Pentagon would have apologized, and all would soon be forgotten. No wonder the soldier said 'Oh shit!' To John Negroponte's many skills we can now add a new one: hit man....."

[chomskysright]

56. Negroponte ordered the hit.....

http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=2&p=10329&s2=13

'The mobile patrol was there to enhance security because Ambassador Negroponte was expected through,' U.S. Embassy spokesman Robert Callahan said, confirming reports in Italian media. The newspaper La Repubblica reported Wednesday that the checkpoint had been 'set up to protect the passage of Ambassador Negroponte.'"


In case you're wondering what the American Ambassador to Iraq was doing driving around the dangerous roads of Baghdad when he could be flying, there is an attempt at a vague explanation:

"Senior U.S. officials such as the ambassador, who is by far seen as the most important American in Iraq, normally travel by helicopter to avoid roadside bombs and insurgent attacks along the airport road, which are frequent. But U.S. officials in Iraq often vary travel routes and methods so as not to be predictable."

You'll note that the explanation makes no sense. Would you expose yourself to gunfire on the ground just to avoid being 'predictable'?

3. The Official Story has been elaborated to explain that Negroponte was traveling by road because a storm made (6)flying impossible. If you believe that, you have to swallow the story about the supposed temporary checkpoint that fired on Sgrena's car. Negroponte was traveling to a dinner appointment at 7:30, so must have passed the area before 7:30. Sgrena's car was shot at 8:55. What was a 'temporary' checkpoint set up supposedly just to facilitate the passage of Negroponte's convoy doing still in place an hour and a half later? As an American embassy official explained (7):

"A mobile one is one set up for a purpose and goes away."

Negroponte supposedly made the return trip by helicopter.

4. Based on evidence of where the ambush occurred, the fact the car appears to have been blocked by an American tank (8), and the precise bullet holes inconsistent with the massive amount of wild shooting that is claimed to have occurred, one can conclude that the attack on Sgrena's car was a professional hit (9).

[chomskysright]

57. this is the paper for which Sgrena was creating a story....

uruknet.info
ÇæÑæßäÊ.ÅäÝæ


informazione dall'iraq occupato
information from occupied iraq

[Nothing Without Hope]

63. What do you bet that when the car magically reappears, it will be riddled

with bulletholes to match the US military's claims? IF it appears at all.

They aren't even trying to make this deception look good. They are so used to the total groveling by the corporate US media that they can leave gaping holes and contradictions in their story. They don't give a damn about what the rest of the world thinks, since they believe they are second-rate and can be easily bullied or bought. They know most people in the US can be kept ignorant and sedated. Bring on the Michael Jackson trial and any random act of local violence, the bloodier the better. It's the Coliseum and the lions and gladiators all over again.

[leftchick]

65. well that is not surprising...

I hope she stays as brave a woman as she has been until this point.

[Blue_Tires]

61. the WSJ editorial on the incident made me mad

it said in so many words that "yes, the shooting was a accident, but since the italians paid the ransom, they are funding more terrorist attacks against our troops...so in a roundabout, full-circle way, the italians had it coming to them"...i may never open up a WSJ for the rest of my life.

[0007]

69. The Wall Street Journal is no better than the Washington Times

or CNN or MSNBC or FAUX......how intelligent people go for their spin and lies is to realize how greedy and stupid they indeed are.

And they wonder why people in the world hate this country.