US deliberately kept in dark about fatal Italian hostage-freeing: general

[bemildred]

Cover up in full swing. Notice the complete avoidance of
the "descrepancies", the physical evidence, the perps, anything,
staying focussed on the "accident" message.

ROME - US authorities in Iraq were kept in the dark about an Italian operation to free a kidnapped journalist which ended in debacle with an intelligence officer killed by GIs, an Italian general was quoted Saturday as saying.

Italian agent Nicola Calipari died in gunfire near a US checkpoint and journalist Giuliana Sgrena was wounded as their car drove to Baghdad airport on March 4, just after her release.

Mario Marioli, a deputy commander of the US-led coalition troops in Iraq, was quoted by the Italian newspaper La Repubblica as saying: "I asked Calipari if I should inform our American allies of the hostage-freeing operation, but his reply was that under no circumstances was the ally to be informed."

US authorities say the vehicle had failed to respond to signals to stop.

Turkish Press

[neweurope]

1. ??? The Italians say that of course the US were notified and so far the

US have not been denying this to my knowledge, just saying that maybe these soldiers didn't know in time. Now this:
"I asked Calipari if I should inform our American allies of the hostage-freeing operation, but his reply was that under no circumstances was the ally to be informed."
???

---------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[librechik]

2. yeah, definitely a WTF moment

this episode is way too murky. somebody shine a light on it! --might have to wait for the lawsuit--or the movie.

[Blue to the bone]

4. So who do we believe??? n/t

[chomskysright]

35. EASY Answer: 180 degree from Chimpy take is right answer always

[rocktivity]

21. This episode is being MADE murky

In order to get you to sigh, "Well, we can't tell WHO'S telling the truth, so let's forget the whole thing." Use your common sense, don't accept everything as gospel truth and don't drink their Kool-Aid!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Blue to the bone]

25. So, I ask again, what is the truth? n/t

[neweurope]

28. Bluetothebone, I've been carefully reading your other statements. YOU

believe what you want. In case you don't already know what you want to believe you'll just have to wait for the end of the investigations like everybody else :)

--------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Blue to the bone]

33. So what is the truth?

I don't really know though I clearly have stated that I've not seen any evidence that it was an assassination attempt.

A cluster fuck? Yes.

If it was an assassination attempt, the boyz were a miserable failure.

[neweurope]

34. Please quit repeating "so what is the truth". We will shout it all over

the place when we know.

(I wonder...)

Bluetothebone...

If it is understandable that somebody at a checkpoint can fuck up or that everything went wrong than it damn sure is understandable that an assassination attempt can be fucked up. My God, not every assassination attempt in history worked. You know, your killers aren't SO fucking hot when they aren't safely dropping bombs from planes on women and children!

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Blue to the bone]

36. Ahhh....so we really don't yet know the truth? That was my point.

Thanks for helping me make it.

I thought the Italian journalist said that something like 300 -400 shots were fired? Did you see the photo of the car?

I hope our boys are better shots than that.

[neweurope]

38. "Blue.." you can hope what the * you want....

I wonder sometimes if your name gives you bad dreams.

------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

(and all his minions, too)

[Blue to the bone]

39. Nope, I actually sleep quit well. Cows will do that to a man. n/t

[neweurope]

27. Of course you're right. I know it's being MADE murky.

I very much hope that the papers Sgrena works for will be able to shed some light into this matter - and the Italiens pressuring Berlusconi. Not that I need the light - for me the matter is clear; I'd just like it out in the open for everybody to see :)

-----------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[bemildred]

26. Compare with this article:

Former Intel Officer: The US Considered Her a Military Target

Targeting Guiliana

The top U.S. general in Iraq, Army gen. George Casey, has stated that the US had no indication that Italian officials gave advance notice of the route of the vehicle in which Giuliana Sgrena and slain officer Nicola Calipari were riding. As a former Air Force intelligence officer, I would argue that this statement is absolutely ludicrous. Based upon intelligence collection capabilities of even 3 decades ago, it is reasonable to assume that the US intercepted all phone communication between Italian agents in Iraq and Rome, monitored such traffic in real time and knew precisely where Sgrena's vehicle was at all times, without advanced notice being provided by Italian officials.

During the early 1970s, it was my job to monitor intelligence collected on the Korean peninsula. It was my responsibility to report serious anomalies to the White House by means of a secure phone.

At that time, satellite photographic collection capability was in its infancy; however, the joke, often told at briefings, was that while "we can identify a golf ball anywhere on planet earth, we cannot tell you the brand." In addition to satellite photography, I would assume, as in Korea, that there would be numerous other sources of photography from "manned" and "unmanned" aircraft that are regularly positioned over key areas, such as the airport in Baghdad, which are capable of providing real time imagery of vehicle traffic.

Work was also being conducted to monitor voice conversation, in real time, by detecting the vibrations that the human voice creates in window panes in a particular room or more easily, in an automobile. But most important, the US, by 1974, had the capability to intercept any and all ground to air phone conversations. It is inconceivable to me that the US would not be monitoring all conversations between Italian agents and Rome, particularly cell phone conversations in a hostile environment where cell phone communications are used to trigger explosives. Are we to believe that in an area near the airport, an area that is intensely hostile according to the US, that they would not be monitoring cell phone signals? Even if such conversations were electronically "scrambled," the position of such signals would be of enormous intelligence value.

http://www.counterpunch.org/fresia03112005.html

[neweurope]

29. bemildred, thanks for the info! But I have no doubt in my mind.

my ???? were rather an expression of disbelief that they can squirm like they do and expect anybody to believe them.

--------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[tinonedown]

3. Maybe the Italians should focus on message

"They should have known it was us, wait - we didn't tell them on purpose".
Yesterday - Italian reporter that was shot - "Wait, I never said they tried to KILL us."
I wish they would get their story straight.

[Blue to the bone]

9. I've said the same from the beginning...the Italians have changed...

...their story as well.

[DoYouEverWonder]

40. I'm more concerned with the US version of the story

that keeps changing.

First they ran a checkpoint. Then they ran a temporary check point. Then they shot up the engine block first, but there were no bullet holes in the engine?
I am sure there are members of BushCo putting a lot of pressure on Sgrena and the Italians to tow the party line. Instead of blaming the victim, why don't we try to get to the bottom of the US story? They are the ones that murdered an Italian top SS agent.

[Judi Lynn]

5. Seems likely that since Berlusconi's government is right-wing

there will be a lot of government spinning to reinforce the official pro-_Bush position, and play down any observations and statements from Giuliana Sgrena, who has a completely accurate understanding of what happened.

[Blue to the bone]

12. I don't agree that Sgrena "has a completely accurate understanding...

...of what happened". She's changed her story as well.

She also clearly said that when the incident happened, she was sitting in the back seat talking to the agent who freed her about the month's events back in Italy.

If that was the case, it would be hard for her to have been totally aware of what was going on outside the car.

[nascarblue]

72. You must be kidding!

If you were sitting in a car and were 700 yards away from the airport, you would know what was going on. Give me a break. Go to her newspaper website (il manifesto) and read it yourself.

Why is it so many Americans seem to think every other race of people is subpar to themselves? The fact is, most ethinicities are much smarter, wiser, and more well-read than the average American. Go to any Arabs blog and read 100's of ignorant comments. Like "The Angry Arab" ( http://angryarabblogspot.com ) and "Raed in the Middle". Both those guys are smart as a whip yet they get daily US idiot trolls commenting on their blogs. It's a good way to get an overall picture of how ignorant many of us are.

Look, the fact is, every single thing that has come out of Iraq, the BushCo has lied about...They've spent a billion dollars on propaganda in and from Iraq. Check out the MEMRI. Watch Control Room.
First it was torture and abuse, they flat out lied it was happening over and over again until the Abu Ghraib photos came out. Then there was the Palestine Hotel and killing of Spanish and Ukraine reporters, they lied about that. To date there has been almost 50 journalists killed in Iraq, and half of them were killed by US troops.

The fact is Sgrena was an "unembedded" reporter, and every reporter who has been unembedded says the same thing...they are "much more afraid of getting killed by US troops, than by Iraqi's or "insurgents".
I suggest you read http://www.dahrjamahliraq.com and look up his Weblogs from November, December and January. Also check out his photos.

[diddlysquat]

6. See this: This US general says that it is ridiculous that we were

kept in the dark



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x112184

[Judi Lynn]

13. I see what you mean. That's an interesting bit of news....

Here's the paragraph referring to the General:

The top U.S. general in Iraq, Army gen. George Casey, has stated that the US had no indication that Italian officials gave advance notice of the route of the vehicle in which Giuliana Sgrena and slain officer Nicola Calipari were riding. As a former Air Force intelligence officer, I would argue that this statement is absolutely ludicrous. Based upon intelligence collection capabilities of even 3 decades ago, it is reasonable to assume that the US intercepted all phone communication between Italian agents in Iraq and Rome, monitored such traffic in real time and knew precisely where Sgrena's vehicle was at all times, without advanced notice being provided by Italian officials.

[struggle4progress]

42. If that's true, it's unlikely that US intelligence would have supplied ...

... the info to ground troops, on the general principle that intelligence can rapidly become less useful whenever anyone outside the loop can figure out your capabilities.

[Xithras]

51. 30 years ago, maybe. Today? Unlikely.

30 years ago all phone traffic was routed through central switches that made monitoring relatively easy. A modern Italian special forces unit would be using encrypted satphones. We DO have the ability to record, decrypt, and analyze those types of communications, but it's an extremely time consuming process. The odds that we'd waste the effort on known-friendly communications are pretty small.

[chomskysright]

37. Freepers here?: get the world press coverage & see some light....

Sgrena, the Italian journalist that they wanted to kill speaking:


da "il manifesto" 06 March 2005
My truth


Giuliana Sgrena



"....The driver twice called the embassy and in Italy that we were heading towards the airport that I knew was heavily patrolled by U.S. troops. They told me that we were less than a kilometer away...when...I only remember fire. At that point, a rain of fire and bullets hit us, shutting up forever the cheerful voices of a few minutes earlier.

The driver started yelling that we were Italians. "We are Italians, we are Italians." Nicola Calipari threw himself on me to protect me and immediately, I repeat, immediately I heard his last breath as he was dying on me. I must have felt physical pain. I didn't know why. But then I realized my mind went immediately to the things the captors had told me. They declared that they were committed to the fullest to freeing me but I had to be careful, "the Americans don't want you to go back." Then when they had told me I considered those words superfluous and ideological. At that moment they risked acquiring the flavor of the bitterest of truths, at this time I cannot tell you the rest.

[rayofreason]

58. pictures of the car...

...don't seems to support a "...rain of fire and bullets..."

[Dogmudgeon]

7. We still don't know what happened in P2 in the 70s

P2 -- Propaganda Due -- is the Vatican Bank's version of Opus Dei. In the 70s, there was scandal and murder. Then it all went away.

The Calipari murder is likewise probably going to "go away".

--p!

[leQ]

8. one only needs to THINK to see the coverup underway

i.e., why would a car, carrying a secret agent who had assisted in freeing a hostage, NOT SLOW DOWN when prompted to by FRIENDLY soldiers?

if they can answer that, i'll start to listen to the other excuses being thought up now by the bushite klan.

on edit: new question: could it be that the italian government wanted this to happen?

[signmike]

10. So, the Italians set her up - just so they could blame the U.S.

:shrug:

[neweurope]

30. Berlusconi doesn't want to blame the US. It was the worst that could

happen to him.

-------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[signmike]

53. My way of being sarcastic. Repukes' way of spinning off the blame.

[neweurope]

59. Ah - ok :) *feels relieved*

;)

-----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[ausiedownunderground]

11. Berlosconi's "Toast" anyway!!

This guy is the Neo-Crazies "Wet Dream". I had to say that, because i've been frequenting the DU lounge for the first time tonight. This guy is Bush & Murdoch in one. He's Prime Minister or President and media mogul all in one. So American and Italian "spin" will go "full throttle" on this American v European "Faux pas". America will not have to worry! But it might be to late for Berlosconi. He has been in charge of Italy for probably the longest period of time since Mussolini. But he's like all political and Economic leaders - Sweating on the Chinese boom!!! But some leaders are so out of touch!! Although i don't know the Italian electoral system and whether E-Voting is allowed in Italy.Because if there is any leader in Europe who could get away with E-Voting it will be him!

[msmcghee]

14. This may only mean . .

. . that Calipari wanted complete control over which Americans were informed and when. Obviously, he suspected there was some danger from the Americans.

I would have notified only those Americans who may have handled checkpints along the route and then at the latest posssible time necessary to ensure the safety of the reporter but not early enough for the Americans to notify higher-ups who may have interfered.

I would have absolutely required that all communications with American forces be under my direct control. I would tell anyone in my command and not part of my communication plan that under no circumstances were they to talk to the Americans about this.

[bahrbearian]

15. I'm sure that at the 1st check point we were notified,

"Opps nobody told me" is the lame excuse we'll be using now.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leesa]

17. Liars.

[ausiedownunderground]

18. The Italian is dead!! Lies or no lies! US forces shot the Italian!

Even the "Freep" world, surely can't deny that the Italian was shot dead by the Americans. The "Rest of the World" believes this. We will be hard pressed to believe that the Iraqi Guerrilla's shot her or "Mossad" or the "French"!!! or whatever right-wing marketing ploy the Neo-Crazies come up with!!! We are quite aware of this "little" incident.

[lumpy]

19. Spin spin spin

Bush has his supporters in every country who would like us all to forget about this 'debacle'.

[Judi Lynn]

23. Some backward posters would pretend super right-wing Berlusconi

would not be inclined to bend over backwards to a country which pours in a tremendous level of income annually through the presence of many military bases, while kicking to the curb a totally unwanted leftist writer.

[0007]

45. Great photos Judi Lynn

[Judi Lynn]

48. Thanks a lot, 0007. Looks like Bush comes on heavy, doesn't it?

All that grabbing, backslapping, hugging, squeezing, getting right in your face, and loud, forced laughter would make a person a little queasy.

I'll bet they don't like to schedule these official visits any more than necessary!

[signmike]

55. He does have a thing for those bald headed guys!

[Judi Lynn]

57. Oh, YEAH! He DOES fit the pattern, doesn't he?That would explain it.

A bald future "victem" could get around all the hot and heavy breathing in his face, and the clutching and grabbing,the loud laughter, and all-too-familiar behavior by starting to wear a wig!


Wooooooo HOOOOO! Free at last!

[rocktivity]

20. Then why was there a plane waiting to take her home?

SOMEBODY on the US side allowed that plane to land--and to be readly to leave when Sgrena arrived. An American military officer was reportedly at the airport to help give her an official sendoff.

Also, who told the other checkpoints to let Sgrena through? Do the checkpoints have the ability to communicate with each other? If we are to believe this was an accident, we have to determine exactly where the breakdown took place.

:headbang:
rocknation

[neweurope]

31. Good point :)

---------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Straight Shooter]

22. Well, a dead man can't exactly offer a rebuttal, can he?

Mario Marioli, a deputy commander of the US-led coalition troops in Iraq, was quoted by the Italian newspaper La Repubblica as saying: "I asked Calipari if I should inform our American allies of the hostage-freeing operation, but his reply was that under no circumstances was the ally to be informed."

Was this the circumstance in former hostage rescues in which Calipari was involved, that "under no circumstances" was the U.S. to be informed? If this rescue was the only time, then why in this instance would he not want the U.S. involved???

I agree with Leesa. They're lying.

[bemildred]

24. It is most convenient, isn't it? nt

[malaise]

32. Didn't Mussolini

throw Gramsci in prison? There are no surprises these days.

[ausiedownunderground]

41. Why were the Italian's rushing her to the world's most dangerous airport?

The Italian agent has her released by the guerrillas or some "black op" American operation and then rushes her immediately to the world's most dangerous airport. This does not make sense in hindsight? If i was a super secret Italian agent who had contact with the Iraqi Guerrillas i would take her somewhere completely different. If the Guerrilla's were in contact with this guy they might have told him how and where to remove this women from Iraq. He could have been rushing for "glory" with Berlosconi and you American's didn't have a clue ! It might be possible. This guy's lover was in Berlosconi's office and he knew her and him quite well. It does appear more and more that the Italians might have "------up". But she was interviewing people from Fallujah!! You American's would find it really difficult to handle what went "down" at Fallujah. No matter what several US Army and Marine representative's say on this discussion forum about how American's would never use anything "Illegal" in war you did use it in Fallujah! There were special ops forces from other countries who saw exactly what the American's did in Fallujah. It was not pretty! And illegal!! by poor old international laws. One day, what happened in Fallujah will maybe happen in ?????? The illegality was only used because the resistance met was "winning"!! Thats what really "shat off" other forces!!! American's are very poor fighter's!!

[Blue to the bone]

44. Your use of words is suspicious. n/t

[TheWatcher]

74. LOL. Pot Meet Kettle!

[leftchick]

43. Ex-Hostage in Iraq Scott Taylor's take on the US involvement.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9F3D082E-919F-4C0E-AD2E-7541EC22B048.htm

Though I don't agree with some of what he has to say. This rings true...


~snip~
Frum's take on the tragedy is that Sgrena's professional negligence (ie getting captured while trying to report an independent perspective on the war in Iraq) led to the unfortunate death of Nicola Calipari, a "heroic" ally of the US.

It also appears to irk Frum that the Italian government "went behind the Americans' backs" to negotiate for Sgrena's successful release.

What Frum and his colleagues fail to accept is the fact that the US has completely lost control of the security situation in Iraq and, as a result, allied governments have no choice but to take matters into their own hands to protect their nationals.

Thus far, after two years of insurgency and violence, the American military has yet to mount a single successful hostage rescue. Even the much publicised commando raid to free Private Jessica Lynch was quickly debunked as an elaborate hoax.

In an effort to cast further suspicion on Sgrena's ordeal, Jim Bartlett, a US historian and military affairs correspondent, is circulating a letter among internet bloggers asking: "What was hurry?"

However, instead of insinuating something dastardly, Bartlett appears to answer his own question by asking: "After a month in captivity, in the hands of the Iraqi insurgents, were trying to fly her to Rome the same day she was released???"

Having endured my own hostage ordeal for five days last September, I can assure Mr Bartlett and his fellow doubters that despite my injuries and trauma I had no desire to report to the American authorities for a "physical", as he suggests Ms Sgrena should have done. Like her, my only wish was to return home as quickly as possible.

[chomskysright]

46. the news from OCCUPIED IRAQ PAPER; ...

No checkpoint, no lights, no warning. Another SISMI agent, who had been driving the car, backed up her story. Even the Italian government agreed and demanded an investigation and an explanation from the U.S. The Italian foreign minister, Gian franco Fini, the head of a neo-fascist party, refuses to allow that the U.S. might have ambushed the Italians, but even he demands something more than the utter contempt Washington has offered its Italian ally.

http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=10324&s2=12

[chomskysright]

47. Former INTEL officer states Americans knew who Sgrena was & where she was.

http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=10315&s2=12

Based upon intelligence collection capabilities of even 3 decades ago, it is reasonable to assume that the US intercepted all phone communication between Italian agents in Iraq and Rome, monitored such traffic in real time and knew precisely where Sgrena's vehicle was at all times, without advanced notice being provided by Italian officials.

[chomskysright]

49. & Sgrena reported on bombing of Falujah & napalm....

I also believe that a clear motivation for preventing Sgrena from telling her story is quite evident. Let us recall that the first target in the second attack upon the city of Fallujah was al-Fallujah General Hospital. Why? It was the reporting of enormous civilian casualties from this hospital that compelled the US to halt its attack. In other words, the control of information from Fallujah as to consequences of the US assault, particularly with regard to civilians, became a critical element in the military operation.

Now, in a report by Iraq's health ministry we are learning that the US used mustard, nerve gas and napalm ­ in the manner of Saddam ­ against the civilian population of Fallujah. Sgrena, herself, has provided photographic evidence of the use of cluster bombs and the wounding of children there. I have searched in vain to find these reports in any major corporate media. The American population, for the most part, is ignorant of what its military is doing in their name and must remain so in order for the US to wage its war against the Iraqi people.

http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=10315&s2=12

[chomskysright]

50. the Americans wanted her freaking dead......

Information, based upon intelligence or the reporting of brave journalists, may be the most important weapon in the war in Iraq. From this point of view, the vehicle in which Nicola and Giuliana were riding wasn't simply a vehicle carrying a hostage to freedom. It is quite reasonable to assume, given the immorality of war and of this war in particular, that it was considered a military target.

Jerry Fresia is a former US Air Force intelligence officer. He now lives in Italy.

[Blue to the bone]

52. So why didn't they just kill her while she sat in the car? n/t

[Judi Lynn]

56. Too many witnesses they couldn't kill without creating

an international incident. I've seen you asking this question on other threads. Apparently no one has given you an answer you will accept.

That's fine. Everyone DOES have his own view.

[Blue to the bone]

61. For an assassination squad, I still don't see the difference between...

....her dying in a hail of bullets as they drove down the road, or via a well-place shot in the head once they found her alive in the car.

An international incident? That's not what happened to begin with?

As for the witnesses, kill them too. Heck, this was a death squad right? What's a few more dead Iraqis?

Doesn't add up that it was a death squad. Sorry.

[Judi Lynn]

64. Too many American witnesses, and Italian witnesses.

I'm not interested in changing your mind.

[Blue to the bone]

66. So you think it was an assassination squad? n/t

[bpilgrim]

75. the evidence thus far is consistent with one...

of course we still wont even give up the car let alone explain the jamming of the satellite phones.

anyone contemplating this most definitely need an OPERATIONAL COVER for such a deed as anyone paying attention to the current situation could deduce WHY.

if the operational cover was chosen to be 'it was a horrible ACCIDENT' then ideally you'd assign some regulars to the road for some security reason... fire off a few - persuasion - shots and let fate take care of the rest.

and if you are an EXPERT in INTEL and you know of these kinds of possible scenarios would you want to alert the us military to your where abouts on your way to freedom?

holds together for me.

would help if the us military started to cooperate though to end speculation on all sides.

:hi:

peace

[Laurab]

71. Adds up to me

you can't go around killing everybody if it's an "accident". Sorry, you just can't - those nasty investigations afterwards will give you away every time.

Doesn't add up that it was an accident to me, but, that's just me. I've learned to believe exactly the opposite of what the current US regime tells me - there's a far better chance of getting the truth that way.

I'm not interested in changing your mind either. I've seen enough to know your mind isn't gonna be changed. You can fool some of the people some of the time...

[Frederik]

60. Your

arguments are a little unconvincing to me. Why didn't they nuke her or shoot her with laser rays? You'll have to ask the people who shot her. What she is saying, even though she has been warned by a cabinet member to shut up, is that the attack resembled an ambush. And I think she is absolutely right.

According to the two surviving witnesses, the car was fired upon when it was standing still or very near a halt, from the right side and possibly from behind. The photos of the car did not show these sides of it, but they did show that the side windows were shot out and that the front was seemingly unharmed. This is consistent with the witness accounts which place the shooters to the right and back of the car, not to the front of it. As the interior light was reportedly on inside the car, it is logical that the shots were aimed at the side windows, if the intended target was one or more of the occupants of the car, or more specifically of the back seat. And as the car was a stationary target or almost (it was allegedly very near a halt at the point when the shooting began), and the soldiers shooting at it most likely close, there wouldn't necessarily be many bullet holes outside the windows, even with short bursts of automatic fire, if my own experience with machine guns can serve as a guide. They would in any case be on the right side, which we have not seen, unless the bullets penetrated both sides of the car (which they would or would not, depending on what they hit on their way through, and on their trajectory).

What is certain, judging from the photos and the accounts of the two survivors, is that the shooters were not aiming for the engine block, or even shooting from the front (one or two bullet holes on the far left side of the windshield can have come from any angle, and they do not come from the bullets that killed Calipari). So they were obviously not trying to stop the car as it "sped towards them".

The point of this is not to "prove" that it was an ambush, but that she seems right to say that it may look like one.

[Blue to the bone]

62. I still question her comments about what it 'looked' like outside the car.

She's stated clearly was engaged in conversation with the Italian agent about the events that had transpired in the last month during her capitivity.

Just hard for me to swallow that she was keenly aware of what was going on ouside the car, at night, while seated in the back seat taling about world events with someone.

Sorry.

[Frederik]

63. Yes

I agree on that, but the driver, another intelligence operative, corroborates the main elements of the story, and he was certainly paying attention.

[Blue to the bone]

65. Did I not read somewhere a quote from the driver about the lights...

....the US military said they'd flashed at them? Specifically, that he slowed down when he saw them?

I could be all wet, so excuse me if I am.

[Blue to the bone]

68. Found it here........

<<Halfway around a curve, a bright light shines on the car from above, and the Toyota immediately stops, Fini says.>>

I thought that both she and the driver said there were never any lights shined on the car?

Here's a direct link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1305360&mesg_id=1305706&page=

[Frederik]

69. Exactly

He said, and the foreign and prime ministers reiterated, that a light was suddenly directed at the car, that he immediately hit the brakes, and that the car was almost at a halt before the shooting started. Sgrena said she didn't remember a light, but it must have happened very fast and she was in the back seat talking anyway.

The point is that the driver responded immediately to the only "warning" that was given, and that the shooters opened fire anyway - but not before the car was almost stationary and the target could be easily aimed at. That is what makes this an atypical checkpoint shootout - in addition to the fact that it happened more or less inside the airport area, after they had been given a "green light" to pass through.

[lovuian]

54. This was US troops assasinating Italians who had Intel

problem was it was a high profile in Italy where the people there are getting really nervous supporting Bush and Busceloni

Journalists are dying in Iran in huge numbers ... Its on purpose!!!

[Disturbed]

67. The range of a bullet wound can be dettermined.

That should answer the question as to why they were not shot at close range.

[Karenina]

70. What a BULLSHIT headline!

All mushrooms kept in the dark and fed DUNG, the U.S. *MIC hit its target with a single bullet to the temple.

[nascarblue]

73. Read her own account here....

It amazes me that two weeks later the true story isn't out. The Italians HAD contacted the US embassy and a US General about the rescue. Sgrena and co. had already gone through checkpoints and were 6-700 YARDS away from Baghdad Airport. John Negroponte's private contractors are the ones who shot the car. If you look at the car and the bullet holes, it's plain to see they were sniper shots. Very tight circle of 3 bullet holes right at the driver.

Look, read her own account before you go rusing to judgements. It always seems like some Americans think the whole world is stupid and every foreignor is some kind of sub-par human. In fact, the longer a civilization has been around, the wiser they usually are.

http://www.ilmanifesto.it/pag/sgrena/en
Read Sgrena's preliminary thoughts on the matter. And remember, she was shot twice, and has a collapsed lung.