Brian Nichols has been captured...breaking CNN.....not a hostage...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

situation the person in the appatrment complex was either a friend or family member and was allowed to leave the apt.

[redirish28]

1. good, and glad nobody got hurt in the hostage situation

[soup]

2. Good.

and thank you to the DU newsbreakers. Can't watch the crap on t.v. and depend on my fellow DUers. I, for one, really appreciate your efforts.

[greatbubba]

3. I bet they link him to AL QUIDA

[nolabels]

96. It's all part of a balanced breakfast

http://forums.gencon.com/?f=20&m=29885&p=7

[stray cat]

4. Fantastic! Thanks for the information.

[Up2Late]

5. ATF: Nichols Captured in North Atlanta

Police search a vehicle leaving an apartment complex in north Atlanta because of a hostage situation.

Web Editor: Ian Stinson
Last Modified: 3/12/2005 11:37:18 AM

The ATF tells 11Alive that courthouse shooting suspect Brian Nichols has been catpured after a hostage situation in Gwinnett County.

Police responded at 9:50 a.m. Saturday to the hostage situation at the Bridgewater Apartments along W. Liddel Road, according to Cpl. Darren Moloney.

Police locked down the apartment complex in north Atlanta. Officers searched vehicles as they left the complex.

<http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=60202>

[hector459]

6. Thank God no more people have been killed.

I'm am glad this is over.

[Blue to the bone]

12. Ah, he apparently killed a Custom's officer......n/t

[Catchawave]

7. Live on MSNBC, CNN, FAUX now. -nt

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

8. YAY!

[0007]

60. Fuck MSNBC & CNN & FAUX

[drdon326]

62. Right.

amazing what people will believe.

[cestpaspossible]

9. I must admit, I have no idea who Brian Nichols is.

Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

[jmm]

11. He's the suspect in the Atlanta courthouse shooting. n/t

[Up2Late]

16. Here's the LBN from yesterday

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1302600>
:hippie:

[greatbubba]

10. His 15 minutes of fame has came to an end.

[drdon326]

13. Glad everyones happy....but...

we dont know if he guilty and they'll probably try to give him the death penalty.

[Cooley Hurd]

14. Well, they have many witnesses, so I think his guilt is all but...

...ascertained.

[Blue to the bone]

17. Just wondering about your take on the shooting of the Italian journalist..

.....in Iraq.

[Skeptic_All]

20. This is very funny...........

If I were to tell you that a friend of mine, who's sister is an assistant prosecutor in the Fulton County's District Attorney's office, and was nicked by the bullet that killed the court reporter fired by who she was certain was Brian Nichols..........would that change your mind?

Some of your people, with either good intentions or not, really need to think about what you add to these forum sites. You do yourself no favors by making such ill-learned comments.

Sorry, but I kind of took this one personally.

[Blue to the bone]

22. Couldn't it just be a horrible case of mistaken identity???

.....tongue planted firmly in cheek.

Some of us do take political correctness to extremes.

[peacetalksforall]

30. Sorry a friend was hit, but it is not my fault that I doubt everything

that is done and said. We went from everyday crimes as this might be to suicided crimes and we have had brainwashed killers. Who's to know the truth. It all comes out eventually, but not always conclusively.

I'm waiting to hear if it's true that O'Reilly said something stupid about deserving to be killed and if yes, why he said it. I'm waiting to hear why this guy was a sharpshooter, i.e., were there four gunshots with four hits or did he spray, though at the time we are being told that three of the shots yesterday were to the head. I'm waiting to hear about who the customs agent was. This sounds likt the everyday variety of crimes and criminals, but I reserve judgement while I wait for him to receive legal justice.

It is un-American to not let the justice system take care of it and wait for the verdicts. But if the top people in Justice are working for the right wing and they lie to us every day and commit and allow crimes against the people such as vote theft, who do we trust? All our hope is on the employees who we hope are like our daughters and brothers who want to and are doing their jobs - from guard to judge.

[Blue to the bone]

31. They're saying the Custom's agent's truck was parked outside of...

...where they caught Nichols. I guess that could be happenstance.

[Maddy McCall]

33. And your DU name is Skeptic?

Oh, the irony.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[me b zola]

107. "nicked in the arm"...boo frickin hoo

Saturday, 3/5, a 21 year old young man who called me 'mom' was brutally murdered as he left a nightclub. His name was Tony, and he is the God-father of my first grand-daughter, and dear friend to my son who shares the same name. Before your small mind jumps to the ever jugdmental conclusion that he was up to no good, let me assure you that he was not. Tony and two other friends went out to karioke, my son would have been with them, but my grandson had the chicken pox so my son stayed at home.

Now before you place your loved one on a frickin pedistal for having worked at a courthouse, as though that is enough for sainthood, let me give you some background on my loss.

Tony's father is from Laos and during the VN war worked special forces along side of the American forces to defeat the Vietcong. When Saigon fell in '75 Tony's father was placed in a "re-education" camp. Through the help of his future wife, he was able to come to the U.S., but was forced to live in a refugie camp. Eventually he made his way into the "American dream". Successful, he made a good life for his wife, they celebrated 25 years of marriage the night before Tony was murdered, and for his family.

Tony, my son, and four other their friends were in the process of enlisting in the military. For Tony I know it was a way to honnor his father. All of the boys share a sense of honnor for their parents and the country which has given them so much, they wanted to give something back.

My son and three other boys who deeply loved Tony are currently serving as novice monks at the temple to honnor Tony, to assist him in his passage to the next world, to honnor his parents and their own parents,and assist with the healing process of a beautiful life cut short. The sacrifice these boys are making is great and honnorable.

My heart is broken and you want to cry over a nick in the arm. Got Jesus???? If your church isn't assisting your spiritual needs any better than it sounds, may I suggest your nearest Buddhist Temple.

[w4rma]

23. Who cares if he's guilty of rape, now? He's guilty, without a doubt, of

multiple murders.

[me b zola]

109. Who cares if he is guilty of rape & the other charges??

I do.

I know the twisting that goes on inside ones mind when they are about to lose their life for something that they did not do. I do not know if this man is innocent or guilty of the origional crimes charged against him. I do know that prosecutors over charge so that those accused will be more willing to accept a plea bargain. I know that many, many innocent people plea guilty because they are unwilling to gamble what the court system will do to them if they are found guilty, and BTW, MANY people have been found guilty by jury when they are in fact innocent.


Shame on us for not keeping an open mind.

[crimson333]

25. he will get the death penalty

kill a judge and 2 police officers and it is over. Not to mention the others he killed.

[Up2Late]

27. He only injured the second Deputy

He did kill the Judge and the Court Reporter, and One Deputy

[LisaL]

29. And apparently killed a high ranking customs agent.

[bobthedrummer]

36. He shot her in the face.

I'd give him a lethal injection myself for all that he's done in the past 36 hours. He raped and beat a woman-that was the case that he was going to court on before this barbarity broke out.

[Zynx]

64. People aren't "only" shot. n/t

[Reverend Smoothfield]

42. either that or a shitload of community service

they don't look too kindly on judge-killing down south

[Zynx]

63. They'll kill him without question.

And I can't say he doesn't deserve it even though I am opposed to the death penalty. I won't shed a tear when he gets the leathal injection. People of his nature cannot be reformed or let out into society in any way. I would lock him in solitary confinement for the rest of his life and he would never mix with another human being again.

[conservdem]

69. He could still be a danger to the prison guards.

[Zynx]

37. About thirty people saw him kill the judge and court reporter

Court was in session when he did that.

The dude is guilty. Fry 'em.

[BiggJawn]

41. Well, drdon...That's why they will have a TRIAL, isn't it?

You're acting just a little TOO "liberal" IMO....

[alarcojon]

56. I don't doubt he's guilty

and will be found as such by a court of law. And he's a despicable POS who doesn't deserve another day walking free among decent people. But I am still opposed to the death penalty, even for this guy.

Seems to me like people jumped on drdon for expressing the "innocent till proven guilty" phrase which is appearently a platitude for many of us, at least in this case. As for the other part, we can agree to disagree about the morality of the death penalty.

Peace

[conservdem]

71. He is inocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but that does not

mean he can't be considered guilty outside the judicial process. Scum or cancer like this make it difficult to be against the death penalty.

[despairing optimist]

90. It's not about him. It's about us.

He's the lowest of the low for killing and raping people. The state, technically the people of the state of Georgia in this case, kills him in the name of justice. But is it justice or is it simply vengeance, and how does murdering him erase his murders and bring the dead back to life?

Let the blood be on the hands of lowlifes like him and not on the hands of the good people of Georgia or any other state for that matter. Put the guy to work in solitary confinement, and make sure he gets the best medical care so he lives a long time paying for the damage he has done.

(Yes, I know it's not going to happen that way.)

[alarcojon]

91. for what it's worth, I agree with you

it IS difficult to oppose the death penalty in all cases. Some people, like this guy, have done such horrible things that you want vengeance. I just think the taking of a life by the state is wrong. This guy deserves nothing less than life in prison without the posibility of parole. He won't be killing or raping anyone else then....

[conservdem]

94. He could still be a danger to the prison guards. Guards have been

killed by criminals like this guy. So I do not think life in prision means he will not hurt anyone else.

Also what if the death penalty is not simply for vengence, but rather its for eliminating any theat a criminal like him poses?

Could you support the death penalty then?

The thing that concerns me about the death penalty is that mistakes can be made and the wrong preson can be put to death.

[Kahuna]

100. There were witnesses. His guilt is a foregone conclusion.

:eyes:

[WarNoMore]

15. OMG

I never watch Faux news, but Geraldo is covering this, you should hear how stupid he sounds. As the police cars are leaving with Nichols all Geraldo said about 10 times is Here they come, here they come, time to celebrate. here they come, here they come."

[Blue to the bone]

18. Geraldo is a legend in his own mind. n/t

[ngGale]

19. Getting hard to fill up all that time...

after all, it's Faux news. Hard for them to react without a script when talking about REAL news!

[Up2Late]

21. For those of you who Don't live in Atlanta

or have Faux News, The local News has a helicopter shot if the SUV driving him back to Jail (about a 10 min. ride) LIVE

Here the stream

<http://www.wxia.com/video/default_live.aspx?storyid=60153>

[Stevious]

24. good...

they can now proceed to let all black men they've arrested on "suspicious causes" in the south, out of the county lockups.

[Stevious]

26. uhh...

Well, sure, they *can*, but most of them will still hold them for 72 hours or so "just in case"...

:wtf:

[tinonedown]

28. You always reply to yourself?

Have a nice conversation.

[Blue to the bone]

32. I was wondering the same thing, but thought I'd had a brain fart. n/t

[Heyo]

34. Yeah....

Why would he reply to himself?

That's odd.

:hurts:

Heyo

[Heyo]

35. Hmmm...

... you're right. I suppose that is a bit odd.

:hurts:

Heyo

[Sinistrous]

57. Think maybe he accidently hit "Reply" instead of "Edit"?

Huh, maybe?

[Blue to the bone]

80. Ahhh, so HE had a brain fart. n/t

[nolabels]

97. My client was just trying to help the Judge clear his docket your Honor

If the court would please note that my client, the accused, is innocent of all the charges brought in front of us and just had a spat of irrational exuberance after finally being able to get his case heard.

On edit, I often edit myself, but I am prone to carry on the conversation alone also so if you will excuse me now I going back to reply to me

[RebelOne]

38. Boy, am I relieved.

I live in the Atlanta area and it is a relief to know that this killer was finally captured.

[oasis]

39. Chimpyboy's funding cuts are the root cause of this tragedy. Why is it

that only one officer was left to escort a dangerous prisoner?

[LisaL]

40. Exactly. Just the day before, they found two homemade knives on

Nicols. Yet he was escorted by a single female deputy?

[oasis]

44. It dosen't take an "investigative journalist" to figure it out. "Homeland

Security" is a joke without adequate resources.

Another good question for the corporate media: How many peace officers who are reservist/national guardsman from the Atlanta area are currently serving in Iraq?

Edit to add: peace officers.

[jbnow]

45. A very odd case

They found the shanks, extra security was ordered...but as you note there is the single, much smaller escort and he was not cuffed. I know they don't want the prejudice of jury seeing a defendant cuffed, but obviously that can be removed before the jury sees him.

But that isn't the oddest. Prior to the crimes he was on trial for there was not a history of violence. Those crimes were very violent...but often violence in a broken relationship isn't connected to violence in other situations.

If he wanted to esacape...this lone woman escort was too tempting. But he didn't escape...he took the time to go into the courthouse and kill people there. What was the gain there?

And then he kills as he leaves, perhaps the agent later. He now has nothing to lose...but then he gives up peacefully when he is caught?

It doesn't make sense. It's like he was on angel dust or some violent, crazy making drug. Not saying he was, just saying...it all makes no sense.

[LisaL]

68. Well, the second trail wasn't going as well as the first.

He could have believed he was going to be convicted, in which case he was facing a very long sentence. Thus, he might have felt he had nothing to lose anyway. As for not having history of violence-he had no extensive criminal record. Which doesn't mean he was a non violent person before the rape. Some violent people manage to get by in life without having criminal records.

[jbnow]

79. I know it looked like he might have lost this time

But why take the extra time to go across and enter room to shoot judge and court reporter, why not just leave?
Or if he is that violent...why give up "peacefully" so soon after?

I know he was surrounded, but why not keep going before it came to that?

We don't know what he was like the last several years but old neighbors and friends talked about him as kind, never a troublemaker, a role model...all good things.

Maybe he was "sane" and kind as long as things went well for him.

It just strikes me as odd that he wouldn't have just tried to escape as soon as he overcame the guard...the senseless killing made no sense in this picture.

[me b zola]

103. If the guy was innocent of the rape charges...

It is difficult for people to understand what happens to someones's mental state when they are innocent of charges but feel as though they are about to lose their life because no one believes them. I imagine the amount of years he was facing for those crimes would have left him an old man when we would have been released.

I am in no way condoning violence, nor excusing his behavior once he escped. What I am saying is that the mental deterioration that occurs when an innocent person is placed in these conditions cannot be overstated, so for me it is not difficult to imagine a person acting in a completely illogical way that is completely out of his charactor.

Then again, in keeping an open mind, he may guilty of the origional charges, who knows what really happened, what is the truth.

[LisaL]

110. His own defense attorney said that in the second trial

prosecution presented a lot more evidence to corroborate the testimony.
He is accused of breaking into his ex-girlfriend home, binding her with duct tape, and raping her for a period of several days.
Just cause the gal was his ex-girlfriend, doesn't mean he didn't rape her. In fact, if the jury believed her in the first trial, none of this likely would have happened.

:mad:

[WatchWhatISay]

58. Why is "female" relevant?

Is that the reason she was lax in protecting her gun from being taken away.

I heard one of the talking heads say the same thing yesterday, with major emphasis on the word "female".

[LisaL]

66. Well, I am not going to worry about being politically correct.

Most males have more physical strength than most females, no? The defendant was a huge guy, there is not much she could do to defend herself and her gun against a guy like that.

[2diagnosis]

77. Ok, no PC. Should we have a tiered system to

divy up duties for police officers based on their gender? How about race?
How about based on whether they have children?

[LisaL]

78. What do you propose be done? This deputy obviously couldn't

handle the defendant, couldn't protect herself or her gun. What should be done so this doesn't happen again?
I don't care about race or children, but obviously you need someone physically capable to guard violent defendants, no?

[2diagnosis]

102. You want women to stay home where they belong?

According to radical conservative blogger Michelle Malkin (see story), it's not merely the homicidal intent of the now-infamous courthouse shooter, Nichols, which is to blame for the Friday morning incident, which left four dead and several wounded in a downtown Atlanta courthouse.

It's also the female sheriff's deputy who's currently in an Atlanta hospital with a gunshot wound to the head.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x112325

(Michelle) Malkin approvingly cited mail she had received suggesting that because the sheriff's deputy charged with escorting Nichols to court was a woman, she could not possibly have been expected to safely and competently transport the accused rapist from one location to another. Nichols disarmed and shot the female deputy escorting him and proceeded to a nearby courtroom to kill a judge and a stenographer and (later, at another location, it is believed) a customs agent.
http://nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com /

[LisaL]

105. What is your point?

The female deputy obviously didn't safely escort the accused rapist, he escaped, took her gun, killed numerous people. Do you think it was a good idea to have the single female deputy escorting the guy, despite all that?

[2diagnosis]

106. Why are you focusing on the gender aspect? nt

[Blue to the bone]

81. How about we divy up duties for police officers with some sanity....

...applied? It was deadly stupid to put a single guard, especially female, in charge of this guy.

[MADem]

108. How about SIZE and STRENGTH????

How about sheer numbers--say, TWO guards when someone is unhandcuffed, at a minimum????

A five eight to six foot, physically fit female probably wouldn't have much trouble with many males--I know a few women who could beat the crap out of many men and not even break a sweat. But putting a woman who was a bit fat, five four at most, with a guy six one and 200 pounds is just DUMB. DUMB. I certainly don't blame HER, I blame the ass, whosoever that was, that made the decision that left her alone, sans backup, with a very strong, very large, unhandcuffed male who was about to get convicted of rape.

And as a consequence, those who feel that females "can't do the work" have a ready-made example that they can trot out to support their theory that wimmens need to be kept barefoot, pregnant and up to their elbows in dishwater.

[TXlib]

111. How about

divying up duties based on their ability to perform the assigned task?

It is highly conceivable that a large male prisoner could overpower a single female officer. If you can spare only one officer to escort a prisoner, you should make sure the prisoner is significantly outmassed by his guard.

[Blue to the bone]

113. Ah yes, a 5', puggy grandmother was assigned the task of guarding...

....a 6'1", 210 lb, 33 year old male charged with a violent crime.

That was just the beginning of a series of major fuck ups with Atlanta law enforcement.

I'd be suing the Sheriff's Department if I was related to any of those killed or injured.

[2diagnosis]

74. dupe question

[MADem]

75. They were not knives, and the media SUCKS

They were hinge pins, and they had not been sharpened or anything. They had the POTENTIAL to be made into jailhouse weapons, but they were not yet "weaponized." His attorney in the 2nd trial clarified this on CNN this afternoon.

I have to say that I find the COVERAGE of this event strange in the extreme. I think the guy is guilty, completely, absolutely, totally, but the press coverage of this whole event has SUCKED. It has been false in some cases, speculative in others. And the cops down there in Hotlanta are not very good at their jobs, IMHO. Everyone's looking for a green Honda, and it's in the damn garage where he jacked it. Talk about failure to appropriately secure the scene! And leaving a strong, tall guy who was found with hinge pins in his shoes alone with a short, fat, female is just BEGGING for trouble.

Apparently, the garage where he pistolwhipped the reporter and swiped the car was owned by Turner, which is how CNN got the exclusive video of him exiting the garage on foot wearing the reporter's coat!!! And the cops never got a hold of the video until a passerby NOTICED the car still parked in the garage, some 12 or 14 hours after the event!

Yesterday, I heard a talking head going on and on about his "extensive rap sheet" as though he were a career criminal. In actual fact, he has only had two interactions with the law, the first was a traffic stop (with a shitload of broken taillights, failure to yield, or whatever, but all the same incident), the second was the brutal rape and hostage taking of his ex-girlfriend, with whom he had a relationship for EIGHT YEARS.

Of course, no one talked about the eight years yesterday, no one said a word about how the girlfriend said that before he went "off the page" that there was no prior abuse or anything out of the ordinary, no one said that he had a good job working for UPS as a computer geek, no one said he was a reliable employee...the whole focus on this guy was that he was a CAREER CRIMINAL AND BLOODTHIRSTY.

Today, they are getting around to the fact that he is college educated, that his Mom is retired from the IRS and is a contractor now for the government of Tanzania, setting up their tax code, that he enjoyed a normal, middle class childhood with advantages, and as a young adult he had a good job, a regular life, and was a normal guy, up until he brutalized his ex-girlfriend.

Now, they are finally starting to postulate the "He SNAPPED!!!!" theory. And you have to wonder, did he? This isn't a guy who gradually gets sucked down into the vortex of the criminal justice system over many years, he was Joe Average up until he...snapped??? Does he have a brain lesion, a tumor? Why would a guy who went to work every day, in a good job, who was a courteous, reliable employee, who dated the same gal for seven or eight years, was never abusive (until he went off), played ball with his pals, was college educated, suddenly do such a thing?

I'm guessing that his court appointed lawyer will order medical tests. I am not a fan of the "Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity" defense--I prefer "Guilty AND Insane" but they don't offer that as a choice. He needs to be put away, permanently. He clearly shorted out, and four families and all of their friends have to suffer for what he did, if he was crazy, or just wicked.

[LisaL]

104. Well, if there is anything wrong with him, I would suspect drugs.

[tinonedown]

43. Election fraud, illegal wars...

and you choose to pin THIS on *bUSH? Good luck selling that one, I can't even get any steam on my vote not counting.

[oasis]

47. "I choose to pin this one on Bush". You're damn right. Clinton provided

proper funding, Bush eliminated funding. Net result: less funding, less officers. Not to hard to figure out.

Ask yourself how many peace officer who are reservist/national guardsmen are serving in Iraq who could be over here.

[tinonedown]

54. I don't think you can tie the two together

No one has stated that the deputies were short-handed Friday. They are pointing to standard operating procedures that need to be reviewed.
By the way Clinton didn't/doesn't provide funding. The middle-class/working poor do through taxation.
With tangible election fraud, and an illegal war going on, I don't see any reason to follow you into the woods at night without a flashlight. I've already found the enemy.

[oasis]

89. City/county budgets have suffered under Bush. Orange alerts are expensive.

"No one has stated that deputies were short-handed Friday" because there was no need to state the obvious.

Often "Standard operating proceedures" depend on available resources.

But then, you knew that.

[Judi Lynn]

49. Surprising you haven't heard about the drastic cuts to the nation's police

DU'ers have known about this forever, it seems:

September 14, 2004

Bush Administration Drastically Cuts COPS Funding

"The COPS program has been an overwhelming success and has had a tangible and positive impact on crime reduction."
-Mike Brown, Sheriff, Bedford County, Virginia1

Since its inception in 1994, the Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) program has been essential in providing state and local police departments with much needed resources to hire additional officers and put more police on the streets, acquire and deploy cutting-edge crime-fighting technologies, and develop and test innovative policing strategies, thus reducing the nation's crime rate and making America safer. The program has been credited with allowing police departments to focus on proactive, deterrent-based, community policing, rather than older, less effective and reactive methods. Now, when we need officers on the street more than ever, the Bush Administration continues to drastically cut the COPS program.

COPS program placed over 118,000 new officers on the street, violent crime dropped 40 percent. The COPS Program has been a resounding success. Since 1995, COPS has awarded nearly $11 billion in grants to law enforcement agencies, putting more than 118,500 new law enforcement officers on the streets in over 13,000 communities in all fifty States. Since the beginning of the COPS program, violent crime in this country declined each year. In 2001, crime rates had declined by 40 percent since they had peaked at 4 million violent crimes in 1993.

Bush administration proposes eighty-six percent cut for COPS program. Despite its ongoing success, the Bush Administration has targeted the COPS budget for cuts every year since taking office in 2001. In fact, last year the Bush Administration proposed eliminating COPS altogether. For Fiscal Year 2005, the Administration has proposed a staggering 86 percent cut for the COPS program - from over $750 million to only $44 million, none of which is set aside for hiring officers.

Worst time to cut number of police officers on the street. With increased homeland security needs, local officers have had to leave their traditional policing duties to cover tasks such as guarding airports, borders, transportation infrastructure, utilities, and special events. In addition, many of our police officers are overseas serving as reservists and local budgets are strained in these difficult economic times. Now, more than ever, our local law enforcement agencies need the COPS program.
(snip/...)

http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/dpc-doc.cfm?doc_name=fs-108-2-241

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Posted 12/1/2003 11:56 PM Updated 12/2/2003 2:18 AM
Federal, local cuts pull cops off streets
By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY

MINNEAPOLIS — The federal program that added more than 100,000 cops to local police forces and helped to cut crime to historically low rates during the past decade is being rolled back because local governments can't afford to keep many of the officers on the street.
The Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) program was a hallmark of the Clinton administration, providing more than $8 billion in grants to saturate crime-plagued areas with officers and forging unprecedented ties between cops and neighborhood patrols. From New York to Los Angeles, "community policing" became a symbol of America's frustration with the high crime rates of the early 1990s — and of governments' big spending in a soaring economy.

But now budgets are leaner, and law enforcement analysts say that the largest federally funded buildup of local police in U.S. history is being washed away by cutbacks and retirements.

The COPS program, which is being phased out by the federal government, has provided grants to pay for all or part of entry-level officers' salaries during their first three years of work. Agencies that received COPS grants were required to keep the officers for a fourth year. Now, many cash-strapped police departments that have met their obligation to the grants program are trimming their ranks to meet increasingly tight local budgets.

As a result, police departments are pulling officers off patrols at a time when crime rates are beginning to tick upward again.http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-12-01-cops-cover_x.htm

ETC. There's enough on this to keep you reading for ages. Really surprising you've never known the numbers of police in cities and states are being radically cut.

[tinonedown]

55. The suspect tried to sneak two knife shanks into court

Just a day or so before this incident.
So the Atlanta court/deputies wanted to assign more officers after this incident, but were short-handed because funds were cut and personnel were stationed in Iraq?
Missed that link and statement from the Atlanta authorities. Please provide.
Thanks!

[Judi Lynn]

59. Found references to requests for more security....

On Thursday, the judge and prosecutors in Nichols' case requested extra security after investigators found a shank - or homemade knife - fashioned from a doorknob in each of Nichols' shoes, prosecutor Gayle Abramson said.

District Attorney Paul Howard did not say what measures were taken to beef up security, but Assistant Police Chief Alan Dreher said no other officers assisted Hall with taking Nichols to court.
(snip)

http://news.bostonherald.com/national/view.bg?articleid=72978

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The day before, prosecutors and the judge had requested extra security after investigators found shanks in each of Nichols' shoes.

Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard said deputies were receptive to the request, but he did not know what exactly was done in the way of stepped-up security.
(snip)

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050312/ap_on_re_us/courthouse_shooting_suspect

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It would be appropriate to conclude they were understaffed. The reason they are understaffed is because they are underfunded. The reason they are underfunded is the massive budget cuts nationally which have thrown all parts of local government into dire straights.

I don't welcome snotty, flippant dialogue. If you can't find the time to be civilized, don't address your posts to me.

[MADem]

76. See above, they were not knives, they were hinge pins n/t

[lyonn]

83. Judi is so right

Funds were cut and cops were sent to Iraq. Here in OKC I hear that they are trying to get the retired cops to come back on the force at starting wages. Cities don't have the money to pay for these services. Not saying that is why only one person was guarding this guy, but it could easily be a factor. Do you think the Powers that be in that city are going to say they didn't take the guy serious enough to put added guards on him when they are probably short handed.

[Judi Lynn]

88. That's really bad news, lyonn. Jeez.

No doubt we're going to see a rise in the crime rate, and the only people who'll be making out like bandits over that will be _Bush's friends in the prison building and maintaining industry, like their old pal's company,the Wackenhut Corporation.

http://www.subliminal.org/mugbook/spooks/wackenhut.html

http://www.cpa.org.au/garchve3/1025pris.html

We've already got more people per capita in prison than any other country. Where does a country go from there? Jeez.

[GraysonDave]

85. Unrelated

The COPS program doesn't fund the Fulton County Sheriff's Office.

The real problem is institutional incompetence with that part of county government. I don't know whether the current guy is competent, but he hasn't been on the job long enough to negate the shortcomings of his predecessor(s).

County governments are local operations, and shouldn't be dependent on federal taxes to support them. Just my opinion.

[Heyo]

51. My question is...

... why wasn't he cuffed?

This was a man accused of a violent crime. (rape)

Why wasn't he in shackles? And yes.. why weren't there 2 officers escorting him?

My mom works at a courthouse here in South FL... and it's always 2.

Either handcuffs or a second officer probably could have prevented this. Also, one of those stun belts would have prevented this also, food for thought.

Heyo

[lyonn]

86. Kind of reminds me of the leadership in Iraq

Handcuffs, shackles should have been used since he apparently wanted a weapon. The Repubs. call it less government, meaning less money to run the government. The courthouses are full of bad people. That's where they appear when arrested so we need dollars to perform these services like police. That also applies to Bush's war that is underfunded. Bad things happen when you are not properly prepared. Poor communication and command in Iraq is so lacking as far as I can see. Shooting at cars with released hostages for example. One would think that was an important event and that people would be notified. Police protection is our safety net here at home.

[conservdem]

72. I blame Bush also for the snow that is falling in here in NE. He's

also the reason my driveway has not been shovled yet.

[oasis]

87. Hard to shovel snow if you're at a keyboard. Prioritize maybe?

:shrug:

[Charon]

99. Funding

Since when is it a Federal responsibility to fund a local Sheriff's Department?

[oasis]

112. When Homeland Security issues an orange alert, who pays these people's

overtime? Are those in law enforcement required to respond to these alerts or can they just ignore them?

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oasis]

50. Sorry? Why are you sorry?

:shrug:

[medeak]

52. you mean the media will cover something else now?

Thank Gawd

[kaitykaity]

53. NYT Story

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/national/13atlanta.html

Suspect in Courthouse Killings Caught After Atlanta Manhunt
By SHAILA DEWAN

Published: March 13, 2005


TLANTA, March 12 - After eluding scores of officers for a day, the man who law enforcement officials say killed a judge, a court reporter and a sheriff's deputy in a courthouse rampage was captured on Saturday morning in an apartment complex in north Atlanta, police officials said.

The suspect, Brian Nichols, surrendered peacefully and was taken into custody by a SWAT team that descended on the Bridgewater Apartments complex in Gwinnett County after a report of a hostage situation.

Only hours before his arrest, law enforcement agencies stepped up what already had been an enormous manhunt, after an off-duty federal customs agent was found shot to death in a neighborhood in north Atlanta. Investigators said the officer's killer took his gun, his badge and his blue pickup truck.

As investigators were trying to determine whether that killing might be linked to the courthouse killings, the SWAT team was moving in on the apartment complex, where television footage showed a parked blue pickup truck, believed to belong to the customs officer.

The arrest of Mr. Nichols ended an intense 24 hours for Atlanta residents, who expressed frustration that the killer had been able not only to defy courthouse security, but also to evade capture for so long despite the vast manhunt by local law enforcement agencies and the Federal Bureau of Investigations.

Earlier, the search for Mr. Nichols suffered a setback - and the Atlanta police a public embarrassment - when a green Honda that investigators believed Mr. Nichols had carjacked and used in his escape was found in the very parking garage where he commandeered it, more than 12 hours earlier.

...more

[OETKB]

61. The Real Issue

It is true enough that judges and people in court should not fear for their lives from violent people, but the same should hold true for the rest of society. I take no comfort that such a person could hide out for 24 hours and our fellow citizens are at risk from such criminals every day(much more so than our judges). The theme here should be curbing violence in general. There are some 16,000 murders a year in this country.

The death penalty does not solve this problem and can be shown to exacerbate it. Do we really want to give the state permission to kill people. The next thing you know they'll be sending people to kill others as a political stategy.

[conservdem]

73. Do this guy's crimes make it hard for you to hold you anti death penalty

position? If you want the killers like this locked up, do you think there is still a great risk of harm to the prison guards that must deal with them for the rest of their lives?

[RebelOne]

93. How could anyone not want the dealth penalty for this maniac?

[conservdem]

95. I am surprised and pleased to see posts like yours here on this blog.

I agree with you. What do you think is the percentage of posters here that agree with us?

[okieinpain]

115. not too damn many. I agree that he needs a permanent time out

too. this guy has anger manangement problems, it's not his fault that he raped the women. her not putting up with his bullshit is the problem. and that stupid judge, not siding with him. and well he shot the court reporter because she wouldn't look at him, and make goo-goo eyes. and will the the other people was just trying to stop a brother from getting his grove on.

but on a serious note, his treatment of the last lady would kinda of get me to cut him some slack and just demand life in prison. but other then that give him the juice.

[drdon326]

98. So you support the death penality ??

.

[Blue to the bone]

82. Has Ted Bundy killed yet again? n/t

[OETKB]

92. Out of the woodwork

An eye for an eye has surely made for a livable world. What message are you two trying to communicate to the rest of us? Mr. Bundy's demise and administering vigilante justice is not going to solve a problem that affects our survival. It makes it worse and further emboldens certain shaky leaders in the world(like the one we have in the White House) feel justified that they are cleansing the world of evil by eliminating tyrants with force. The result chaos reigns(not freedom) and thousands die. You two may pine for a cave man existence, for me, no thank you.

[Blue to the bone]

114. Just making the observation that after his execution, he stopped killing..

However, he was held by authorities at one time when he was suspected of involvement in the disappearance of a young woman.

He escaped, and killed again.....multiple murders, in fact.

[RetroLounge]

65. Luckily he didn't hole up in a Hotel

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1306692

RL

[ElsewheresDaughter]

70. snarf

[ElsewheresDaughter]

67. does anyone know if Brian Nichols ever served in the Military?

[Blue to the bone]

84. I heard something of a 'bio' on him this morning, but military service..

...did not seem to be on the list.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

101. Brian Nichols is a Jackel.........just my $0.02

[drdon326]

117. Wow....hope youre not on his jury. n/t

[lies and propaganda]

116. i saw Nancy Grace in the middle of the night

and that bitch actually said "who cares about the rape charge, hes got first degreee murder charges blah blah."

A woman actually saying on tv that it doesnt matter that this psycho raped another woman. Cnn just jumping as quick as possible to be just like the mentor, faux news.