Cop Uses Taser Gun On Man Who Refused Urine Sample: Man Was Strapped ...

[struggle4progress]

... To Hospital Bed

POSTED: 7:55 am PST March 9, 2005
UPDATED: 8:28 am PST March 9, 2005

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Authorities say a police officer twice used a Taser stun device on a drug suspect who was restrained to a hospital bed because the man refused to give a urine sample to medical staff. <snip>

The police document said Wheeler was handcuffed to a hospital bed and then secured with leather straps after he refused to urinate in a cup. When medical staff tried to insert a catheter to get the sample, Wheeler refused.

At one point, police officer Peter Linnenkamp noted that he jumped on the bed with his knees on Wheeler's chest to restrain him. Then, when Wheeler still refused to let the catheter be inserted, Linnenkamp said he twice used his Taser gun, which sends 50,000 volts into a target. <snip>

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/4267905/detail.html

[MissMarple]

1. Is that assault, torture...what?

I hope they don't say the officer was "following procedure" and using "necessary force". :eyes:

[Syncronaut Seven]

25. That's torture

Old game, new tools, Brutality is what being an American is all about. Tell me I'm wrong.

I hereby renounce my citizenship, send me to Guantanamo MOTHERFUCKERS.

I'll be waiting. :nuke:

[MidwestTransplant]

44. This is not necessary force

The guy was restrained and no threat to the officers. I don't imagine they are sanctioned to taser as punishment for not complying with a urine test. A taser is meant for their safety.

[Bzzzz]

64. So unnecessary...

That is why amnesty international has been throwing a fit about tasers. In the Eighth admendment of the Constitution it states of cruel and unusual punishment. I believe that police should be carrying tasers instead of .45 Glocks...but, to use these weapons as torture devices is what has some scared.
Why couldn't these cops be patient...eventually the guy would have had to piss.

[Barad Simith]

2. I can't even begin to express my outrage

If this is not treated as a crime against Wheeler, then the country we once loved truly does not exist anymore.

[Fridays Child]

3. Sounds like a literal and figurative pissing match.

[Barad Simith]

4. Or...

...it sounds like the police torturing a citizen for exercising his Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure.

[Fridays Child]

7. Well, yeah, that...

I was making a more behavior-specific observation. It's that damned psychology degree that makes me do it. ;)

[Barad Simith]

21. I was just still pissed off from reading the article

I probably came across a little pissy there.

:thumbsup:

[Columbia]

19. Precisely right

[KansDem]

5. Why the Hell was it so f*cking important to get a urine sample???

The man confessed to consuming cocaine, why demand a sample and try to get it via catheter? What's wrong with this country???

Are we to accept catheter insertions now like we do blood tests?

[fob]

9. To use as evidence. You have the right to remain silent, however, we

(the police) reserve the right to beat the piss out of you.

/sarcasm

[KansDem]

13. Well, then you have your urine sample!

;)

[0007]

29. ...and bat the shit out of ya' if there is no urine in the bladder

[bluestocking_lib]

39. my thoughts exactly.

completely brutality. but then again, everything this country has been doing as of late is.

[Trillo]

6. Too high a "comfort level" between doctors and police.

Doctors are letting their trust be impugned by the close association.

"Trust me, I'm a doctor"? LOL. More like "I" distrust you. Why not stop raping our wallets, too?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

23. Excuse me, but what rational doctor is going to step in between....

...an enraged law enforcement official armed with a taser and a pistol, and any patient?

There's no "trust" in this situation....just a lot of intimidation.

[TahitiNut]

8. "suspect"? Restrained, subjected to catheterizarion, and tasered.

How many human rights is it possible to violate at once without due process these days? The erosion of personal privacy rights is absolutely appalling. Subjecting a person to torture in order to force them to self-incriminate is beyond the pale.

[Heddi]

10. WHere are the Tazer Appologists?

You know, they always use these excuses (whether the victim is a child, or adult--straight or on drugs--young or old---violent or peaceful)

1) Well, when you run from the cops, whaddya expect?
2) Well, ANY 8 year old should know that if you turn your back on the cops, they have the right to jolt you
3) ANYONE knows that if you swipe food off the salad bar, you gotta expect to be tazed...it's COMMON SENSE FOLKS
4) ANYONE who resists the police should expect this
5) blah blah blah police state blah blah blah expect this blah blah blah good bleating citizens

So how will the appologists fit their arguments into THIS case...a man was STRAPPED TO THE BED
He obviously wasn't stealing salad (a tasable offense)
He obviously wasn't protesting peacefully (a tasable offense)
He OBVIOUSLY wasn't an 8 year old with a pencil (a taseable offense)

he was
Strapped
To
A
Bed

---

BTW--as a part of the patient's bill of rights, you have the right to refuse any medical procedure or intervention, even if it will save your life. IN the event of the patient being a prisoner or suspect or something like that (arrested for DUI, needs to get a blood sample for ETOH content, pt refuses), the police MUST get a court order before medical personnel can perform the procedure.

THe police in and of themselves WITHOUT A COURT ORDER cannot force someone to undergo a medical procedure

The nurse and or doctor, in and of themselves WITHOUT A COURT ORDER cannot force someone to undergo a medical procedure.

And a catheter IS a medical procedure. It cannot be inserted without a doctor's order

Edited to clarify a point

[Trillo]

16. Obviously, it's a custom that's not enforced.

Hospitals are now prisons. I've experienced it myself, although they physically restrained me only momentarily. Didn't want to let me go, wanted me to receive further 'treatment'. I left anyway, and the security guard grabbed my arm. Fortunately, the supervisor was there, and when I started screaming "Get your hand off of me," the guard listened 'to his supervisor', not me. There was a delay of less than a minute while I was physically restrained by one arm of the guard.

There was almost a serious fight of self-defense.

I repeat: HOSPITALS ARE PRISONS.

edit: typo

[Heddi]

20. I hope you complained

I'm a nursing student, so I'm still a bit wet-behind-the-ears when it comes to some things hospital related, but I've NEVER seen anyone physically restrained unless they were harming themselves or someone else (there was a suicidal woman who was trying to hang herself with her sheet, and she was temporarily restrained until she could be moved to a mental-health facility that could better deal with her).

We're taught (at school) and told via hospital policy that before you do ANYTHING to a patient, you
1) identify yourself
2) say what you're going to do
3) explain the procedure
4) ASK IF IT'S OKAY

I had to remove a cathater from a gentleman the other week, and he had an enlarged prostate and when I told him I was Heather, and I was going to remove his cathater and he may feel some pressure for a few seconds, is it okay if I do this, he said no. I had to get the charge nurse and he told HER no....he had numerous cath's in the past and they were painful to insert and remove, and he wanted to be pre-medicated with pain meds before the procedure took place. TOTALLY understandable, and we complied, and about 45 minutes later he was watching the walls melt and I removed his cath.

i could NEVER imagine myself in a situation where I did something to someone against their will under ANY situation. If they say NO, I move away and notifiy a supervisor

[Trillo]

22. Yeah, well they use catheters to confine to bed. "Dual-purpose"

I ripped mine out and left. My eyeballs practically popped out too, when I saw what kept the catheter in place.

When it's being placed, are you told to instruct the patient on how to properly self-remove it?

edit: spelling

[Heddi]

24. I don't know if I'd agree (in my experience)

That they're used to confine people to bed. The urine collection bag is usually clipped (with a simple plastic clip) to the side of the mattress or hung from the underside of the bed---and that is only because there is a little rubber tube that you can drain urine from, and that has to stay sterile--any bacteria that enter that tube can travel through the bag, into the cath tubing, and into the urethra/bladder and cause serious infections.

What is used to keep the cath in place is a rubber ballon at the tip of the catheter. It's generally filled with 10cc's of water. The balloon is there because without it, the catheter would slip out of the urethra, out of the patient, and totally negate its use. It's not there to prevent you from removing the catheter, it's there to prevent the cath from slipping out (the urethra is covered with mucosal cells, and it's a very slippery orifice)

We don't instruct patients how to remove caths in the hospital because if the patient wants the cath removed, they tell the nurse (not ask), the nurse gets an order from the Doctor (again, a cath insertion and removal requires doctor's orders) and the cath is removed.

I've never encountered anyone who felt the cath was a restraint, and according to hospital policies, caths aren't restraints (wrist/leg restraints are, as are locking the wheels of a wheelchair when not doing transport on a patient).

There's no need to tell the patient how to self remove the cath because in the hospital, there's no need for them to know how to insert it or remove it. We don't tell patients how to unhook their IV's, or remove themselves from traction either, but not because of some sinister motive to keep patients strapped to their bed and at our unkind mercy.

However, if a patient has to have a cathater upon discharge, we instruct the patient how to remove the catheter (firstly, the 10cc of water keeping the balloon inflated must be emptied first). In some instances, patients (or care givers) have to insert and remove caths on a regular basis, and in that instance, we would instruct the patient how to insert a cath using sterile procedure and how to properly remove it.

I've never seen an instance, or heard of an instance where patients were kept in the hospital against their will (in the hospitals I work at). When we were learning about restraints and patient rights, one of the questions asked is "What if the patient wants to go home before they're medically ready?" The response was that the medical staff would do everything they could to encourage the patient to stay until they were medically fit to go home. In some cases (depending on the disease or disorder), they will tell patients that if they go home now, or discontinue X treatment, that they will die. If the patient insists on discontinuing a treatment or going home before medically appropriate, they are asked to sign a form stating that they were told of the risks or dangers of stopping X procedure or going home before medically appropriate, and they have to sign that paper stating that they will not hold the hospital responsible for any injury, damage, or death resulting in their decision, and once they sign it, they can go home.

Legally speaking, holding someone in a hospital against their will is imprisonment. Performing a procedure that someone hasn't consented to, or continuing a procedure that someone has asked be stopped is illegal too, and isn't taken lightly by the medical or legal profession.

As a nurse, the last thing I want to do is perform a procedure on someone that they don't want, or to keep someon in the hospital longer than necessary. I've never seen an instance of a nurse or a doctor proceed with something after the patient has refused consent, or refused the procedure. As much as I think or know it will save your life, I cannot force medical compliance upon anyone, and once they decide to discontine a therapy or leave the hospital before they're medically ready.

[Trillo]

28. Thank you for your explaination. I believe you are being truthful,

for those parts of the procedures upon which you've been instructed.

The reason I wanted to leave, was they were lying to me. Specifically, I asked to see a medical text to verify what they were telling me about why I was there. (I never believe a medical professional, until I verify it) Auto accident. These procedures were initially done while I wasn't conscious.

Back to the texts: they told me they didn't have any of those in the hospital. Yeah, right. They lied. When I called them on that, they rationalized their lie, said something further about them being 'locked up'.

I hope you are able to keep a clear conscience in your future career.

Unfortunately, there are always those 'special cases' where 'procedures' aren't followed, like this tazer victim. Nurses are much more the "healers" than 'most' of the doctors I've met in the repug dominated profession.

Good luck!

[Heddi]

33. That's a completely reasonable request

I think sometimes, medical professionals see people lying in a hospital bed as nothing more than "the patient". Generally, they see "the patient" as being someone with ZERO medical knowledge and honestly, ZERO interest in anything other than the lay-person definition of their condition or whatever.

While that IS the case for alot of patients--they don't want the mumbo-jumbo--just tell me my kidney's don't work and that I have to go on dialysis for 4 hours a day, 3 days a week---that's all they want to hear...that ISN'T the case for a GROWING number of people. I honestly think the internet has helped people become more proactive in their own health and researching their own health concerns.

I've had several patients ask for copies of their medical records upon discharge--something I WHOLLY encourage people to do. I think that sometimes (sometimes) people who aren't trained medically can see a one-time glucose reading of 150 and think "Oh my god! I must have Diabetes! WHy didn't that ignorant Doctor tell me about this?" when the reality is that they don't have diabetes and it was either an error in the reading, or due to a medication or combination of medications that the patient is receiving.

However, overall, I encourage patients to not only take copies of their med records with them, but I also encourage them to ASK if they have any questions about lab values, EKG readings, or whatever. Medical professionals aren't perfect by any means, and YOU (the patient) generally knows more about your general day-to-day health and feelings than I (a nurse) ever will. A day in the hospital is NO indication of the "real" person who has a family and a job and daily stresses and moments of joy.

WHen I see people, I see them at their worst--healthy people don't stay in the hospital for 2+ days. I see just a very brief glimpse of the person who is there. Sometimes, we get so 'hung up' on the MAIN disease or problem that we fail to notice the little things---like giving a woman a razor so she can shave her legs, or moving someone's wheelchair to the window so they can look at something other than the wall or the TV. I try to not be so myopic and blindered when I'm working, but I see it happen and I'm guilty of it myself sometimes.

Sadly, the absolutely HORRID patient-to-nurse Ratio in this country is only getting worse. I hear stories of 10 and 15 years ago where it was no more than 3 or 4 patients to one nurse MAXIMUM. Now, we have 10+ patients being cared for by one nurse and MAYBE one nurse's aide. It's pathetic---And there are NO shortage of people who are willing and eligible to get into the nursing profession===the schools just don't have the space for more students, or the funding to expand programs.

But instead of our Government realizing that a healthy population and a population that can be well served by medically compitent professionals. As it stands, though, we're more willing to find creative ways for people to die than find creative ways for people to live. We're more interested in training soldiers than training nurses.

I know this is no consolation to you now, or for the absolutely undefendable treatment you received in the past, but there's alot of new, young, fresh faces entering Nursing and Medicine. We're not all the crotchety old bunch that hates people. We have a genuine desire to help people live the best lives tehy can and to have the best care possible. We're out there working for you---honestly.

And you're e right---Doctors are generally repugs...nurses are generally dems. Aside from a very small number, all the nurses I've met are against tort reform, for free/universal health care for all people, lower drug prices, and the removal of profit from the medical "industry".

Medicine is a right, not a privelege.

[LeighAnn]

51. Medicine and the Internet

I'm glad to see you online

:hi:

I just came out of a surgery situation, and I felt as though most of the professionals there did not spend a lot of time surfing the internet for medical information. I attributed it to the 12-hour shifts and what-not. I have yet to meet a doctor or nurse that knows that pyridium (sp?) is available over-the-counter.

I live in a part of the country that seems behind the times, though, as far as medicine goes. West Coast health care was futuristic compared to Midwest. "Red State Medicine"

Sometimes I feel like medical professionals are hosile towards people who seek medical information online.

Glad you're here on DU!

[knitter4democracy]

45. That was a bunch of crap.

Every teaching hospital has a medical library, and most other hospitals do as well. Usually, you have to be staff in order to go in there, but the resident or attending should've helped you out. An informed patient is a healthier patient, as my internist husband always says.

My two cents' worth, though: not all docs are republicans. I know my husband is a serious Deaniac and progressive Dem. He's not the only one in our area, either. Most of the Dems just keep it a bit quiet, considering the old boys' club the profession can be, especially in smaller towns like ours. David doesn't, though, and proudly wears his Michigan Dem party pin and Dean pin on his coat. He's only had a couple of patients say anything, and most of them were positive.

Of course, he was a nurse's aid in nursing homes for six years to pay for his undergrad, so he understands how hard it is for nurses and how crappy it can be for patients. He does his best to help his patients understand what is going on and listens to everything they're saying. That's why he gets home so late. :eyes:

If that cop had done that to one of David's patients, he would've gone postal on that guy. It was illegal, unethical, and that cop needs to get canned.

[lostnfound]

55. I suspect that certain urban hospitals treat their patients with

much less respect than others..what kind of hospital is it that you have worked at?

Not saying that all of them are bad, but like everything else in this society, the respect that you are given is very class- and race-driven.

[Heddi]

58. I live in an economically depressed rural area of Washington

High population of migrant legal Mexicans and high population of illegal immigrants that come here to work in the agricultural business.

High population of Native Americans---my town borders a very large Reservation.

There are only 2 hospitals in my town--one for profit, one not for profit.

I've worked at both--the for profit generally caters to the more well-to-do, those with insurance, or those that can afford to pay out of pocket.

I've worked longer in the non-profit, more community-hospital based system. Easily 90% of the patients I've worked with are either uninsured or underinsured and don't qualify for government programs. I've had a large number of "unpeople" that I've cared for--the homeless, drug addicts, prisoners (current prisoners).

When I lived in Seattle, I worked for the largest Cancer Research Group in the city (one of the largest in the world) and did my work out of a very large prestigious hospital. The one I worked mainly out of again catered to insured, affluent, generally white folk. But they had another hospital about a mile up the road that generally catered to uninsured, underinsured, marganilized groups.

So I've worked in hospitals whose patients were both overall high-class (economic/status/race-wise) and low-class (econonmic/status/race-wise). I've worked with people who make in one year than I'll make in my lifetime, and people who don't have a place to live, much less the resources to buy medicine or seek medical help until their situation becomes an emergency.

I've never seen patients in EITHER hospital setting (rich or poor) treat patients disrespectfully. In fact, I find that the nurses I've worked with have treated the poor, downtrodden, homeless, drug-addicted, poor-life-situation patients with MORE respect and compassion than other patients.

There was a lady in our hospital a few weeks ago who was homeless. I didn't treat her myself but was interested in her case and shadowed the nurse who did treat her. IN addition to giving her as much free medicine and supplies as the nurse could possibly give her, the nurse also ordered "guest" meals--extra meals that aren't billed to any room---so that the woman could take food home with her upon discharge. They gave her extra PJ's and robes so that she could have those when she was discharged---I've never seen that happen with someone with Insurance and a house and relatively few financial problems (compared to a homeless person).

I don't think it's the individual hospitals that treat people disrespectfully---it's the individual care-givers.

Nurses aren't immune to stereotypes and prejudices. We all have them. And although 99% of nurses "check" their prejudices and pre-conceived notions at the door, there are some that don't, and will treat a black patient badly regardless of the setting of the hospital, regardless of the patient's condition, regardless of the patient's financial situation.

There are nurses who will act differently towards a patient who is homeless REGARDLESS of where the hospital is (urban/rural).

Again, like I told the other poster, I know that some of the "bad" treatment many people have gotten in hospitals is DIRECTLY RELATED to shitty working conditions that nurses have been put in---high patient/nurse ratios, crappy pay, forced overtime, lack of raises, lack of replacement nurses to fill in for those that have retired.

But we're out there. We're going through school and we're learning as fast as we can. I hate when I go in for report in the Morning and each nurse is given 8 patients to care for AND give meds to AND take vitals AND wheel to X-ray AND pass out lunch trays AND give baths because there are no Nurse Techs or Nurses Aides to work that floor.
THAT is not safe patient care. The average hospital patient takes, on average, 8 medications 3x's a day. I've had patients that I've had to give 35 pills to over the course of 4 hours--and those were just ORAL meds. They also have IV meds and injectable medicines. It's unsafe to assume that a nurse can do all the pre-medication assessment on all of her patients, give medications safely, watch closely for side effects, take post-medication assessments, and ask the patient all the quesitons that need to be asked in regards to their medication and overall general care. It just can't be done.

But I don't blame the nurses for that, and I don't really blame the hospitals for it either. Our goverment has found it more worthy to train solders than nurses. To fund killing than to fund healing. To do EVERYTHING in its power to make sure that the health-care crisis our country is IN (not facing) is just ignored.

We don't fund nursing schools. We don't pay Nursing Teachers enough to bring them from practice to the educational field---to be a Teacher in a nursing program, you have to have your master's degree. A nurse in the field with a master's degree makes, at the LEAST, $80k a year. As a teacher, MAYBE $30k a year. Alot of people aren't willing to make that financial sacrifice.

My program enteres 90 students per year into the nursing program. Last year, there were over 200 applications for 90 spots. There's no shortage of interested people. There's a shortage of teachers, of resources, of class space, of lab space and supplies.

But let's build another bomb---the cost of ONE bomb could fully fund 90% of the nursing programs in this country to the point that there would be NO wait list (average wait list for nursing students to enter a program: 2+ years). NO discrepancy in Nurse Practitioner pay as teachers. That would churn out more nurses who ARE more forward thinking, who ARE younger, who ARE more aware of current social situations and who ARE more willing to do what they can to better those situations.

[lostnfound]

63. Thanks for sharing that.

Sounds like some amazing people you are meeting there. Thanks for giving me a different perspective on the urban hospital.

It's so crazy that there's such a shortage. Another example of upside down priorities.

The only experiences I've had in hospitals with nurses have been very good ones; some people have a real knack for conveying compassion and kindness towards strangers in the simplest ways.
It's not a job I could ever do.

[LeighAnn]

48. You forgot one..or two..or three...or dozens

Here's one of the ones I think is most egregious

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/3426924/detail.html

The 68 year old woman who honked her horn in front of her house.
You're right about the apologists, I keep hearing too many of these stories to feel that their arguments hold water. I made this a couple of days ago

http://www.newsfromreality.com/taser

Look how many "incidents" I've been able to find just since the first of February.

There's one on there I've got to change from yesterday. It says something about a burglury suspect dying after being tasered. The updated version would say something like, "Police Kill Innocent Man with Taser"

[Jack_DeLeon]

59. There is nothing wrong with Tasers....

the problem is with the Police.

They also have problems using guns and blunt objects aswell.

[BadGimp]

11. How savagely brutal

eom

[LiberalFighter]

12. There should be a citizens board with the job of administrating...

the tazer up the ass of any police officer abusing their authority.

[ConcernedCanuk]

14. "prompted an internal affairs investigation" - well that's that then!

.
.
.

probably get a leave of absence to run a prison in Iraq . . .

:eyes:

[Octafish]

15. "Foley" catheters can hurt worse than a tazer.

Isn't this cruel and unusual? What about the Fifth Amendment about unreasonable search and seizure?

It's humiliating enough to be made to pee into a cup in public, but having to have a quarter-inch thick tube crammed up one's pee-hole? It hurts to think about!

My goodness! What kind of monster has the government become? Oh, I forgot. The AG considers torture part of proper police procedure, just like the NAZIs once did.

[truthisfreedom]

17. an addict. not a violent offender? so they commit violent torture on

addicts now? ALL COPS WHO CARRY TASERS MUST BE SUBJECTED TO MULTIPLE TASER SHOCKS BEFORE BEING ALLOWED TO USE THEM, AND THEY MUST PASS PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE TESTS TO PROVE THAT THEY ARE NOT THUMPERS.

i am so sick of reading about tasers being used on children, restrained people, handcuffed people, the elderly, the insane... this is just completely out of control.

[donheld]

18. Sometimes it's hard to believe i'm reading about the USA

Instead of the USSR.

[Syncronaut Seven]

27. Just joining us?

Wait, it gets better.

[donheld]

30. sadly i've been there quite awhile

I don't think i'll ever get used to it however.

[Syncronaut Seven]

31. Me either

Don't ever stop being outraged. :bounce:

[Misunderestimator]

26. OMG... That sounds like rape to me.

[obxhead]

32. Why didn't they just do a blood sample

there is a lot more to this I'm sure. maybe another rodney.

[Changenow]

37. My question exactly.

Shoot, if he was restrained they could have found a few people to hold him still long enough to draw blood.

In the alternative, nature would eventually taken its course, that specimen wouldn't have stayed inside the suspect forever.

[Dave Reynolds]

34. Wow...

Ve haff vays of making you piss..

[RetroLounge]

35. Nothing to see here, move along

just another bad apple...

Sarcasm off...

RL

[Baclava]

36. Next up - Walmart applicant tasered for refusing to give a urine sample...

"I just wanted a damn job - then next thing I know - they fired a lightning bolt into my dick!"

[LifeDuringWartime]

38. fucking disgusting

is there any more appropriate way of describing the situation?

[lumpy]

40. Nasty boys

with their nasty toys....

[Unforgiven]

41. We are Losing control

over any and all personal rights, why couldn't they just take a blood sample?

[BiggJawn]

42. Notice that it's in FloriDUH again...

Fucking Pigs sure love their Cattle Prods down there, don't they?

Glad it hasn't caught on up here in InDUHanna, yet...

[Renew Deal]

43. I don't understand how that's legal.

It sounds like coercive torture.

[Occulus]

57. Sometimes police don't care if it's legal or illegal

And, bear in mind, police never presume a person innocent. In fact, in the only personal encounters I've ever had with police over thirty years or so, the only reason they ever took note of me at all was when they thought I might have done something.

This includes having a game system and all associated peripherals stolen from me once (retail value ~$600, including all items stolen, for which I paid full retail at the time), and on another occasion getting questioned when I was simply walking down the street.

Police, in my experience, do not care about the little guy who suffered the little crime. As far as they're concerned, we'll get over it.

I forgot to mention, when the game system was stolen, I eventually dealt with a detective. He took my information and I never heard from anyone there again.

I have little faith in my local law enforcement.

[PsychoDad]

46. Torture

Not just for the troops anymore.

[disillusioned1]

47. Tasers are now available to the public

TAMPA - Tasers, the powerful and controversial stun guns used by thousands of police agencies, are stirring debate yet again.

Manufacturer Taser International is touting a new compact, lightweight version - this one for sale to the public.

The new model's debut comes as Taser International faces questions about the safety of the weapons, even in the hands of trained police officers. And some of the very officers who support the use of Tasers by law enforcement are not so sure Joe Schmoe should carry one, too.

The civilian model unveiled last fall, which blasts targets with 50,000 volts of electricity instead of bullets, is remarkably similar to the version carried by agencies including the Tampa Police Department. But the civilian version shoots for up to 30 seconds straight, while the police model shoots only five seconds at a time.

...

http://www.stpetersburgtimes.com/2005/03/05/Worldandnation/Taser_sales_to_public.shtml

[NashVegas]

54. Hey! Let's All Buy Some!

And Taser the board of directors ASSES!

[0rganism]

49. "The Time of Pee"

this is "the Time of Pee -- the time foretold when people would be judged not by works, nor by family, nor even by looks, but by their urine... They kick your door in anytime they want to. All they have to yell is 'DRUGS!' and your spouse is in jail, your kids are farmed out to the state, your car and house are suddenly theirs... For this has become so crooked and perverse a nation that your precious bodily fluids are no longer your own, and not even your bladder or bloodstream are private. There is no place where they may not watch....

"And the Beast said: 'By their pee shall ye judge them, and by thy pee shall ye be judged. And all will be divided by their pee. And in the snow shall their names be written.'"

-- Revelation X, The Book of Urinomics

[Jim Sagle]

50. Urine good form tonight.

[0rganism]

56. Coincidentally, I submitted some of my own pee for judgment today

A "pre-employment drug screen," they called it. I call it snooping around, but there are bills to pay. I hope they enjoy the smell of pissed-out coffee half as much as I do. Really.

[rocktivity]

62. Pre-employment drug screens are OK once you've been offered the job

Like salary negotiations and receiving your start date, they belong at the end, not the beginning, of the hiring process. And of course, the right kind of potential employer informs you of that beforehand.

:headbang:
rocknation

[leesa]

52. These people should be fired immediately and put on trial for assault.

[NashVegas]

53. Tasers Are Starting to Make Guns Look REALLY Attractive

At least with guns, you know goddamn well it's not a fucking toy.

[Jack_DeLeon]

60. What gives the police the right to force you to give your bodily fluids?

Yes the Tasering of a man who is already restrained is definately fucked up, but I think another important issue here is what gives the police the right to force you to give them blood or urine samples?

We all have the a right to protect us from self incrimination, so if someone's fluid samples incriminates them doesnt it violate the 5th amendment?

Also presumably your bodily fluids are your own are they not? So taking any samples without your permission would also be theft asell would it not?

[tom_paine]

61. Because, Jack, the Bill of Rights from Old America is as meaningless

in Imperial Amerika as the Weimar Laws were in Nazi Germany.

This will become more and more apparent.