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chlamor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 10:28 AM
Original message
Venezuela Journalists Denounce U.S. Campaign
Venezuela Journalists Denounce US Campaign

Tuesday, Mar 08, 2005

By: Cleto A. Sojo - Venezuelanalysis.com

Caracas, Venezuela, March 8, 2005 (Venezuelanalysis.com)--A group of almost 400 hundred Venezuelan journalists issued a statement today denouncing what they consider is a "campaign" from the United States against Venezuela.

The journalists argue that negative and frequent media coverage of Venezuela in the U.S., as well as the frequent comments by high ranking officials at the State Department, CIA, and White House, amount to a "campaign" similar to those applied against countries which were later invaded by the U.S.

"As it was done in the past to Guatemala, the Dominican Republic, Chile, Grenada, and Haiti, the government of the United States today targets the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela with all its media and propaganda power. In those brother nations, such campaigns served as the preamble for an armed invasion by the main global military power," the statement says.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1537
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah but remember
all 400 of the undersigned are government stooges and instruments of repression.
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AngryWhiteLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yet more REAL TRUTH and GOOD JOURNALISM from foreign sources
Thank (insert deity here) for the foreign press.

JB
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. The media campaign against Chavez is easily read if one remembers
Cuba, Chile, and Central America--30 major US-backed coups in LatAm since 1945--that should give people a clue. A bit of research into the US destabilization efforts to prevent Allende from getting elected and their subsequent destabilizing and overthrow of the democratically elected leader will reveal that the same MO is going on now against Chavez. The difference today is that news is available via internet and Chavez has been savy enough to keep the coup attempts, destabilization efforts, assassination plans, etc., in the world spotlight--and the planet knows the US track record. How pathetic that meriKan Sheeple don't know their own history. Instead they suffer from America's Amnesia.


Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez (R) talks to the emir of Qatar, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani in Doha, March 8, 2005. Chavez is in Qatar on a two-day visit. NO SALES NO ARCHIVES REUTERS/HO-Miraflores Palace
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. From your link. "America's Amnesia," some strangely familiar admissions
taken from the declassified material Bill Clinton requested to be released during 2000. Of course the CIA fought the release, and when it had no alternative, released the materials with a lot of black-outs.

If you check on the Chile records, you'll see the pattern of manipulation of Chilean events is almost identical to what they did to Venezuela, with the point to be made, it differs only because the coup against Chavez wasn't successful, as the Chilean coup was, after Salvador Allende was out of the way:
The second report, “Covert Action in Chile: 1963-1973,” is based on the very documents that the CIA now seeks to withhold. The report contains maximum detail on almost all of the techniques--bribery, infiltration, black propaganda, kidnapping, secret payments, recruited assets in the media, the private sector and the military--that the CIA used in Chile from the early 1960s to mid 1970s, and uses elsewhere in the world. Examples include:


  • Exact dollar CIA expenditures on “black” propaganda, bribery, and payoffs to influence and alter virtually every Chilean Congressional and Presidential election between 1963 and 1973.

  • Concrete details of covert financing totalling $l.6 million (in 1970 dollars) to Chile’s leading anti-Allende newspaper, El Mercurio, and CIA internal assessments that these payments “played a significant role in setting the stage for the military coup of September 11, 1973.”

  • Efforts to foster coup plotters within the Chilean military through “deception operations,” fabricated information on Cuban influence in Chile, and penetration of Chilean armed forces.

  • Contingency preparations for a coup, including arrest lists, maps of key political, media, and economic installations, and financing for a right-wing economics institute that could provide a blueprint for the new regime’s policies.

  • Propaganda operations after the coup to “present the Junta in the most positive light.”

  • And liaison relations with the Chilean secret police and security forces in the military regime, despite their acts of violent repression.

(snip/...)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20000817/index.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


It's also interesting to mention, after looking at a fragment of the records revealed on what was done to American citizen, Charles Horman, (also available in your "America's Amnesia" link) all it took to get him tortured and murdered in Chile, after he learned of American involvement in the coup, was to have the Chilean authorities pick him up at his house, claiming they found some "extremists" books in his home, and he was outta here. Simply amazing. And desperately sad.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. What will our response be when the Emperor sends his
personal Army to invade Venezuela? Our protests over his personal Army's invasion of Iraq was not very effective. So, what will we do when he does it again to another country?
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. We'll go on a few walks,
Edited on Wed Mar-09-05 10:51 AM by Vladimir
blow the odd whictle, make the odd funny joke, make more than the odd unfunny joke, and then sit back and drink Pepsi while playing our PSPs, satisfied in the knowledge that its 'Not in our names'.

PS as you might have guessed, I am feeling extra bitter today.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. I'm feeling downright acidic, myself...
I have a new code word for our response to any new Imperial adventure: "Monkeywrench". It's got a ring to it...
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. Both sides are playing this game. n/t
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Ahhhh, the dreaded "equalization from hell".
Edited on Wed Mar-09-05 11:01 AM by Commie Pinko Dirtbag
So, is Venezuela trying to unseat Bush or what?
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Simply made a legitimate observation.......
....why does it bother anyone to admit that both sides have engaged in infammatory language?
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. If you read Venezuelanalysis or the VZ gov't's TV page, they're filled...
...with articles saying that VZ has no intention to cut off the US. The VZ foreign minister talks about the 25 bil in trade the two countries do and how they have no interest in seeing that disappear or even shrink. He talks about the deals they're doing with Chevron.

The point of this article in the OP is that the gov't is NOT engaging in inflamatory language, but the MSM exaggerates everything Chavez says to create the appearance that there is inflamatory language.

If Chavez is so inflamatory, why isn't he trying to inflame Venezuelans? Why arent't the state-run media outlets filled with inflamatory statements? Why are they instead filled with stories about how VZ looks forward to doing business with the US?

Why is the only inflamatory press published in the MSM for western consumption? Does that make sense? If a tree falls in the press in the US, how can a VZ hear that, and how can it possibly inflame them? Makes you wonder what the point is, doesn't it?
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Ah but lets be fair here, the exaggerations do work
both ways - even if this is unintended - because they make Chavez appeal a lot more to the European left. This may be a secondary effect, but its definitely there; when I talk to my friends in the anti-war circles about Chavez, few can cite his actual policies but almost all can remember his 'dissing' of Mr. Bush, and they love it. The MSM (and for that matter the progressive media also, at least in Britain) has found a niche in the market of spin that appeals to both the left and the right outside of Venezuela, and is exploiting it away.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Chavez is intentionally using our inflammatory language.
It is a weapon used consistantly and effectively by Bush/RNC. Chavez knows it and is lobbing it back each time we throw it at him.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. But I don't think that's even what's going on.
Edited on Wed Mar-09-05 11:25 AM by AP
On the day that the MSM is reporting from Banglore or Delhi that Chavez has said some nasty thing about Bush (which he actually said weeks earlier in a completely different context which the MSM ignores), I looked at what the state-run press in VZ was saying about Chavez's visit. The news was completely different. It was about cooperation, development, spreading wealth down to the people.

I saw no "lobbing back" of any language weaponry.

I could be wrong. I could be missing something, but I consider it very interesting that the "lobbing back" is a representation that only appears in the MSM and then gets echoed among western "progressives" in way that only serves to polarize people further, and which actually occludes any interesting debate people could be having about Venezuela.

Polarization, as people should realize by now, is one of the tools the RW uses to their advanatage, not their disadvantage, and polarization is what the MSM is working towards with VZ, and too many progressives seem happy to accomodate.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. The state-run press in VZ is different than Globovision and MSM
The state-run press in VZ does encourage peace and cooperation.

But global corporate media was all about the daily WH press gaggles and Scotty's constant comments of the "troubling situation" in Venezuela. It is on the global corporate stage Chavez lobbed back our inflammatory language.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. My point is that Chavez is not trying to inflame people so the MSM
and the Globovision coverage is misleading -- it's writing a story about polorization primarily for western audiences.

And I have no idea what the Globovision angle is, precisely. I bet it's mostly quotes from US officials saying "Chavez is troublesome" rather than actually showing Chavez saying things.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. They work to polarize people in unproductive ways. Your anti-war European
friends don't realize it, but they're perpetuating a fiction that not only reduces the issues to a black-and-white that barely explains the true dimensions of the issues involved, but it is going to contribute to a mood that lowers the resistance to US efforts to undermine Chavez's government.

If all they're talking about is "hurrah, he doesn't like Bush," how in the world are people going to be abled to have informed opinions about policy towards VZ? That mentality is totally evacuating any room in which there could have been an informed discussion about policy.

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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. You are right that its not very productive
but all I was saying is that it mobilises both sides of the issue, and as I noted, the left-wing media are as guilty of it as anyone. The truth is, no-one here much cares/knows about Venezuela beyond 'Chavez contra Bush'... its just another third-world country with pretty scenery. Not condoning it, just sayin...
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. What "left-wing" media? (nt)
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. For example the morning star
which is Britain's most left-wing semi-mainstream newspaper.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Oh! In Britain. (nt)
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Not trying to inflame Venezuelans?
.....have you not been reading his comments while he's in India?

<<"We are just waiting for the United States to announce next that Venezuela has weapons of mass destruction," Chavez said in a speech in the southern Indian city of Bangalore.>>

Do you listen to his speeches live? I do. Not a speech goes by that he doesn't talk about how the US government wants to assassinate him.

Chavez is doing more for the Venezuelan people than any other leader ever has. I just wish he'd not lower himself to Bush's standards with all the bluster.

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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I think he has bring things like that to folks' attention to prevent an
Edited on Wed Mar-09-05 11:39 AM by w4rma
assassination attempt from being successful. If folks don't know to look for such attempts then they will be more likely to miss the one that makes it through.

The same for the invasion talk. Alot of the world got caught off guard by Bush invading Iraq, because they thought he wouldn't be dumb enough to do it since it was such bad strategy. Chavez is keeping folks aware of this danger, also.

The best defense against these people is to shine a light right on them for everyone to see and understand.
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Surely you jest.........
<<Alot of the world got caught off guard by Bush invading Iraq>>

Come on now.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. A LOT of folks didn't think he'd actually go through with it. That he
would back off at the last moment. Heck, I bet Saddam thought that, also.
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Bet they don't think that any more. n/t
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Everyone's on their guard, now. You can expect *anything* from insane
Edited on Wed Mar-09-05 12:11 PM by w4rma
people. They do not act logically.
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. You make a good point, Blue.
Edited on Wed Mar-09-05 12:23 PM by cliss
I have not read all of Chavez's speeches while he was traveling last week. The one that caught my attention was the one where Chavez referred to "Bush having the lipstick of a clown" which probably got loads of raucuous laughter and guffaws.

However, Chavez is no thug, unlike Bush. He's going to be selective about the topic, according to who his audience is.

I've watched him as he speaks, and he is most definitely a charismatic speaker. He gets people involved, and he has an immediate appeal.

Chavez knows only too well what the US has done in the past. They target a certain country, and then they start the rhetoric. After that, they invade. He's trying to avert it by blasting it all over the world. And it seems to be working.

Recall, I was dead certain the US would invade Venezuela a few days ago, based on the troop buildup on Curacao. Chavez probably guessed the same thing. Amazing. It may not happen.

PS Sorry for picking a fight with you on another thread. I was sure you were a freeper, but it turns out 'taint so. :smoke:






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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Chavez obviously has very good reason to be suspicious of the Chimp...
...and his criminal cabal of commercial thieves. I'm just chagrined sometimes when it sounds like he's lowering himself to the Chimp's standards with some of the language that he uses.

While others have pointed out that his some of his quotes make great print for newspapers around the world (like the quote you mentioned above), I'm afraid they can also have a negative effect at times as it relates to his professional image. That, of course, is just my personal view.

Having said all of that, let me reiterate that I believe Chavez is a once-in-a-lifetime leader for the Venezuelan people. I don't agree with 100% of his policies or his public comments, but he's the best thing to have happened to this country, ever.

And Cliss, if you tried to pick a fight with me in another thread, I don't even recall it! Please always express your views and feel free to hammer me when I'm all wet. It happens all the time as I grow older.

Hey, and what the heck is a 'freeper, anyway?
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. MSM makes it sound like Chavez spends his time just railing against Bush
This is an insult not only to Chavez but to the governments with whom he is doing business. It is a smokescreen to cover up what he's actually doing--the deals he's making, his intelligence, and his demonstrated diplomacy as a world leader. Chavez is lightyears ahead of TortureBoy and the Bushistas and they know it.

COHA's most recent report has some interesting and BALANCED information about LatAm and what's happening there that anyone interested in the region should take a glance at. Here's a clip:

...The Drive Toward Intrahemispheric Trade
Though efforts to strengthen MERCOSUR, the South American Common Market, have been somewhat disappointing, Brazil and Venezuela have retarded and maybe even shut down Washington’s push for the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA). This integrationist approach is likely to advance at least as long as Washington continues its duplicitous subsidization of U.S. agriculture while preaching the virtues of free trade to its southern neighbors. As part of the region’s Pan-American drive for Latin unity, we will see further moves toward solidifying a South American trade bloc, such as Chavez’s proposal for ALBA, the Bolivarian Alternative for America. Eduardo Duhalde, former president of Argentina, already has declared that “our mirror will be the European Union, with all its institutions.” Following this trend, on March 2, Vázquez signed the “Declaration of Montevideo” with Chávez. The significance of this agreement, which brings Uruguay into Venezuela-sponsored Petrosur, is that it is one more step, albeit a small one, in the direction of intrahemispheric trade and cooperation and away from Washington’s preferred plans for multilateral, interhemispheric trade.

http://www.coha.org/NEW_PRESS_RELEASES/New_Press_Releases_2005/05.26%20Venezuela%20and%20the%20New%20Left%20the%20one.htm

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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. The inflamatory angle is "Chavez will cut off US" which is not true.
They take quotes like the one you just gave out of context to support a thesis that isn't supported by facts or logic.

And, once again, notice that the inflamatory quotes appear in western media for western audiences, but do not appear in the state-run media in VZ.

If Chavez's goal were to inflame passions and to cut off the US, don't you think the state-run press would be printing stories like those that the AP is printing?
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Chavez most definitely has threatened to cut off the US and I wish...
....he would!!! This country has for far too long been totally dependent on the US as virtually all of its oil exports go to the US and those exports amount to something like 80 of GDP.

I'm thrilled to see him negotiating deals around the world to wean Venezuela off the US teat. But he can't cut them off until he's got other markets in place.

He's rapidly getting there!!!
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Diversifying markets is not "cutting off America" -- if America wants...
...to pay more, they get more.

There are simply more people who want oil, and VZ is open to all bids.

That is NOT how the MSM is portraying the situation. They're saying that Chavez is going to capriciously cut off the US because he wants to harm US interests and because he hates Bush.

They're buttering up people to not feel too bad if Chavez gets booted.

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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. And I didn't say that diversifying markets meant cutting the US off...
.....but if the US does attempt to assassinate him, having diversified the market for this country's crude gives him the leverage he needs to back up his words with deeds.

In all honesty, I suspect it would take MANY years to develop markets that could supplant the US market, if ever, and by then the Chimp-in-chief will be just a bad dream.

In the interim, choice is good for all peoples and having a choice when selling one's oil can only be a plus for Venezuelans.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Back up what words with deeds? He, and his foreign minister, and other
people in the government have said that they want to do MORE business with the US.

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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Yes, and he's also said the US will lose access to Venezuelan oil if....
....if the Chimp tries to overthrow his government again.

I still don't see how being beholden to US dollars helps the Venezuelan economy stand on its own, especially if he really believes that the US government wants him ousted.

There are plenty of other countries who need Venezuela's oil, China being just one of them. Why continue to strengthen ties with a corrupt US government and its buddies in the oil industry? And if anyone doubts the US oil companies are in bed with Bushco, then they're sadly mistaken.

Doesn't make sense to me to do more business with the US.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. As I've said a million times, the spin is that Chavez is capricious and...
Edited on Wed Mar-09-05 04:31 PM by AP
...that he's holding America by the balls by controlling so much of our oil, and that we need to take him down before he takes us down.

The point, I believe, it to create a mood where people might say, "good" if he's gone -- when you polarize the options to either (a) he's going to take us down capriciously, or (b) we're going to take him down capriciously, people in America will amost always say, well let's do (b) before he does (a). And the problem is that the options are not black and white, and (a) isn't even based on facts that exist. It seems to be spin.

And you're compounding that sentiment -- you're playing into the polarization. For a liberal audience, you're saying he should be capricious because it's bad for him to establish economic ties in a country with a government that appears to be hostile to him. It's that very impression -- that he's logically capricious -- that will make Americans feel OK about us being capricious. It's the Iraq invasion mentality: let's attack them before they do soemthing to us.

So, is option (a) based on the truth? VZ has been selling oil to the US for somethign like 90 years. The only month in which it didn't sell oil to the US was in the month of the N.E.D.-supported (and therefor US Congress-financed) strike, and that wasn't because Chavez said don't sell it to the US. It was because they wanted to, but the USCongress had funded a movement that cut the US off.

So, Chavez was pretty sure that some element working with the assistence of US interests participated in the April 2002 coup, but even then the US didn't get cut off! How capricious is that? I suspect that VZ isn't even interested in persuing the policy aims that you and the MSM are imputing.

(BTW, I'd love to see Chavez's original quote to which you refer above. But even the version you remember is not like the recent representations in the MSM of capriciousness on his part. Do you have a link?)

Another thing: I'm not convinced that establishing economic ties is very relevant to whatever the mood of the current administration might be. I think you're glossing over that issue. I don't know how VZ's economy can stand on its own if it irrationally shuts out the US as market participant? If China knew that they didn't have to compete with the US, it would drive down the price China was willing to pay to participate in the VZ oil industry, and that would be cheating the citizens of VZ who own the oil, and the VZ government seems to recognize that fact. And this is why they keeep saying they want to more business with everyone including the US, but everyone must realize that demand is up, and the oil is all expensive-to-process heavy crude oil, so the only limitation on access will be whether you have the money to pay (and I believe Chavez said a little while ago that he thinks about $40pbl is a decent price, which balances OPEC's profits with the need to grease the skids of economic development).
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Great post, AP. Appeciate your taking the time to contribute
in situations that cry out for clarification. You definitely pay attention. That can be a handicap, can't it? Makes things so much more complex!
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Yeah! My head hurts from paying attention.
Thanks for the reply. My head hurts less when I know there's at least one person out there who understands what all my misspellings and grammatical errors and circumlocutions are trying to get at.
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. Chavez is being anything BUT capricious, and I love it when he's...
...out there developing new markets for Venezuela's crude. Why would he be doing that if the US can easily, and willingly, buy all the oil he can send their way? Why?

I'm not trying to polarize the situation at all. It's obvious what he's doing and I'm in support of it.

<<So, Chavez was pretty sure that some element working with the assistence of US interests participated in the April 2002 coup, but even then the US didn't get cut off! How capricious is that?>>

How could he? He would have crippled this country's economy which was already in the tank from all the political turmoil. He had no options, certainly not the options he's putting in place today. One doesn't negotiate long term buy/sell agreements, and put in place the tankers to move millions of barrels of oil or configure the refineries to handle heavy Venezuelan crude, over night.

The US will always be a ready market for Venezuelan oil. But only when Chavez has the power to back up his words will US politicans take him seriously. Until then, he's just bluffing as far as they're concerned.

And finally, don't think that the US is the only country in the world with world-class oil companies. The French, the British, the Spaniards, the Chinese, and even countries like Argentina have excellent companies skilled in exploration, drilling, production, and refining of petroleum products.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Do you work in the oil business?
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. No, I grow chickens, cows, egg plant, and yuca. n/t
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. US imports 15% of its oil from Venezuela, China and India are growing
faster than I think people realize. There was an article in IBD in January about China's oil needs resulting in a global shortage. Glad I don't drive a gas guzzler or live on the Eastern seaboard ;-)

From an earlier article:

...China, the world's second-largest consumer of oil, is already a leading competitor to the United States in its global search for oil, gas and minerals.

China has accounted for 40 percent of global growth in oil demand in the past four years, according to the U.S. Energy Department, and its consumption in 20 years is projected to rise to 12.8 million barrels a day from 5.56 million barrels now. The United States now uses 20.4 million barrels a day, nearly 12 million of them imported.

Chinese companies, which have substantial government help, can dispense government aid to secure deals, take advantage of lower costs in China and draw on hefty credit lines from the government and Chinese financial institutions to compete with rivals from the United States and other countries.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/01/business/oil.html

... India and China are competing for energy resources to fuel economic growth that both countries need to lift the majority of their 2.3 billion-plus people out of poverty. Chinese and Indian demand for oil has helped lift the price of crude in New York 47 percent higher over the past year to $53.78 a barrel.

China, the world's second-largest energy consumer, signed agreements with Venezuela on Jan. 30, paving the way for more fuel imports into China and more Chinese investment in Venezuela.

Venezuela, the world's fifth-largest oil exporter, wants new markets for its crude and more investors in its energy industry to help lessen its dependence on the U.S., which Chavez accuses of trying to overthrow or kill him. Venezuela supplies about 15 percent of the U.S.'s oil needs.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&refer=top_world_news&sid=agNoCVbt8wnI

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
35. The US government DOES want to assasinate him
Edited on Wed Mar-09-05 02:46 PM by alcibiades_mystery
And has tried pretty publicly not three years ago.

That may be the subtle difference, yes?

His constant statements to that effect seem like an insurance policy: "if I turn up dead, it was my ex-husband" kinda thing. Sorta keeps the ex in line if you say it everywhere, gnaw mean?
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. They have, but there's a big difference
one is using it in self-defense, the other is now seen as the world bully. I don't blame Chavez a bit - the chimp is nuts.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
44. BULLSHIT!
The rightwing meme that "both sides are doing it" has gotten as tiresome as the meme about "flashing lights and warning shots" that is used to justify the shooting of civilians by US military in Iraq.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
48. Do you mean Venezuala has plans to invade the USA? nt
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
40. Heard of this from a DU'er's post"The Iron Fist of Hugo Chavez"
Unmistakeable propaganda. This is completely dishonest. From the posted article:
The conservative U.S. Fox News network recently ran a news series titled "The Iron Fist of Hugo Chavez," in which the twice-elected leader is portrayed as an authoritarian dictator. Last January, the U.S. National Public Radio (NPR) featured a report from Venezuela in which a family described fears of buying a new car for fear of having it confiscated by the Venezuelan government.

The explosive 17% GDP growth experienced by the Venezuelan economy and news such as a vehicles sales growth of 47% last year, are often ignored by the media when reporting on Venezuela, including both the NPR and Fox News reports.
(snip)
Quite a difference between the American media version, and the truth.



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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. I'd call that FUX NOOOOZ article a
Made in America Myth--typical FUX NOOOZ and American Propaganda standard.

Where ever do you get those great photos!! ROFL :thumbsup:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. The first two came from a goole image search for "Fox News President"
Was actually trying to find some photos of Fox officials, for a good laugh. You know they'd be hilarious! What I got was a variety of photos of all kinds, including President Fox of Mexico. The 2nd one was on the 2nd page, left column. Isn't that the damnedest thing? They went beyond the single person halo they put around Bush and enlarged it to include the missus, while keeping the divine, Gawdly look.

When you click the photo, it goes to this site:
http://groups.msn.com/CHRISTIANSWHOBELIEVEINANDSUPPORTGEORGEW-BUSH Amazingly odd. Has a link to the RNC there.

For balance I had to find a photo showing "horrified" and found the 3rd one,which I love! So expressive.

How backward DO they think Americans are, when they show halos and rainbows around something like George W. Bush? You'd think NO ONE could ever be retarded enough to be subliminally influenced, and NOT consciously snicker the moment he saw that obnoxious foolishness.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
47. Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
Edited on Wed Mar-09-05 05:00 PM by paineinthearse
Can anyone explain this term?

p.s. Nominated!
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Simon Bolivar.......someone important to most of northern S. American. n/t
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. Simon Bolivar is the George Washington of Latin America
Actually, he is much larger than Washington.

Simon Bolivar

Simon Bolivar was born on July 24, 1783 in Caracas, Venezuela. He was mostly educated by private tutors. He was influenced by the French political philosopher Jean Jacques Rousseau.

<snip>

He is called the Liberator. He would always be remembered as the South American soldier and statesman, who was the most significant leader in the struggle for South American independence from Spain. Today he is remembered throughout South America, and in Venezuela and Bolivia his birthday is a national holiday.

http://www.auburn.edu/~jfdrake/teachers/gould/bolivar.html

Bolivarian Circles: A Grassroots Movement

Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003

By: Alvaro Sanchez


Taking part on this grassroot movement are the groups known as Bolivarian Circles, named after Venezuela's independent hero: Simon Bolivar. Endorsed by the Venezuelan President and supported by the majority of the population, Bolivarian Circles grouped community leaders and neighbors alike. They worked hand in hand in order to make ends meet at various shantytowns, neighborhoods, and villages across Venezuela.

For instance, instead of waiting for the President, or another high authority or power of the government, to arrive at Barrio La Palomera, near Baruta, Miranda State, neighbors and community leaders, mostly women, went ahead and organized themselves to secure a badly needed medical supply dispensary. In addition, they worked together on the beautification and clean up of La Palomera. By the same token, Bolivarian Circles across Venezuela began an extensive social and political activism intended to aid the usual disenfranchised population of Venezuela. Other Bolivarian Circles, for example, concentrated their work and efforts on feeding the hungry, providing after school care for poor children, securing resources for small businesses, etc.

President Chavez did has done a lot to provide the means and resources necessary for grassroot movements such as the Bolivarian Circles to be able to help themselves. Thus, the Venezuelan National Assembly, with the support of the President, passed legislation and appropriated funds for the creation of a line of credit available for small businesses, particularly those owned by low-income Venezuelans, women, Native Americans (Indigenous), and other minorities.

With the participation of the Bolivarian Circles, President Chavez implemented Plan Bolivar 2000. The plan allowed President Chavez to mobilize the Venezuelan Armed Forces in poor areas of the country with the goal of providing health care, subsidized food, construction equipment, school tutoring, and logistical organization to those who needed it most: the poor in the shantytowns of Caracas and other large cities of Venezuela.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1026

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
53. More on a Chavez assassination story someone posted here lately
Don't have time to search for it, so will post this here, if you don't mind:
VENEZUELA:
Statements Indicate Chávez May Indeed Be in Somebody's Crosshairs

Analysis by Humberto Márquez


CARACAS, Mar 9 (IPS) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez has repeatedly claimed that the U.S. government has plans to assassinate him and thus trigger chaos that would allow it to intervene militarily and take control of the South American country's huge oil reserves.

Now, recent statements by the top U.S. official in Venezuela appear to back up his fears of a plot against his life. In an interview last weekend with the Peruvian newspaper El Comercio, Venezuelan Vice President José Vicente Rangel reported that former U.S. Ambassador Charles Shapiro had warned him of the possibility of an attempt on Chávez's life.

Shapiro, who served as ambassador to Venezuela from 2001 to 2004, ”did not go into details, but felt he was obliged to share this information with us, for legal reasons,” Rangel added.

In the mid-1970s, Washington officially prohibited the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) from planning or participating in assassination attempts against foreign leaders.

On Tuesday, the current U.S. ambassador to Venezuela, William Brownfield, admitted that ”Vice President Rangel is telling the truth. On two occasions, Ambassador Shapiro informed the Venezuelan authorities of actions against the current administration.” Brownfield did not clarify the origin of these actions.
(snip/...)
http://resist.ca/story/2004/7/26/92612/9757
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