WP: Anti-Cholesterol Drugs Can Protect the Heart("strongest evidence yet")

[DeepModem Mom]

Anti-Cholesterol Drugs Can Protect the Heart
High Doses Are Beneficial, Study Finds

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, March 9, 2005; Page A09


A large study has produced the strongest evidence yet that driving cholesterol down to very low levels offers additional protection against heart attacks and strokes, researchers reported yesterday.

The eagerly awaited study involving more than 10,000 at-risk patients showed that using high doses of powerful cholesterol-lowering drugs called statins to slash levels of so-called bad cholesterol far below current targets can markedly reduce patients' risks.

The study addresses one of the biggest debates in treating heart disease, the leading cause of death in the United States: How aggressively should doctors and patients use statins to lower levels of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol?

The findings may encourage more doctors to use the drugs to reach ultra-low LDL levels in potentially millions of patients and could lead to new official recommendations if the results of two other similar studies reach similar conclusions, experts said....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17050-2005Mar8.html

[FloridaPat]

1. 50% of people that have heart attacks have normal cholesterol.

So who are the "at risk" patients? Just those with high cholesterol? There was basically no heart disease in 1900. Wonder what happened since then.

[medeak]

2. No pharmaceutical corps back then!

and stockholders...

[SOS]

50. " The study was funded by Pfizer Inc., which makes Lipitor."

nt

[HysteryDiagnosis]

9. Real cause of heart disease.... inflammation.

Statins do have anti-inflammatory properties... but then.. so do many many substances found in nature, including commonly eaten foods.

What we didn't have in the early 1900's was trans fatty acids at every other meal. I use something similar to this product... your mileage may vary. Consider using Benecol margarine... similar materials contained therein. Ciao.

Papers at the bottom for the skeptics. (sp)


http://www.menshealthtech.com/cholesterol_care.htm?source=GooglePPC
Cholesterol Care™ Is the Only Guaranteed Supplement That Contains All Five Natural Ingredients Proven Effective in Lowering Dangerously High Levels of Cholesterol and Triglycerides…

You Get These Six Important Natural Ingredients...
1. Beta-sitosterol To Reduce Total Cholesterol Absorption and Lower Your Cholesterol by up to 42%...

Beta-sitosterol is a healthy plant oil, found in all vegetable matter, Has been shown to greatly decrease the absorption of cholesterol in the digestive system and decrease the amount of cholesterol produced by the liver.. A study in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition showed a 42% decease in cholesterol absorbed when
lower cholesterol, beta sitosterol,guggul,red rice
taking beta-sitosterol. 18 major studies demonstrate that Beta sitosterol can be used to effectively lower both cholesterol and triglycerides.” These studies are complete with forty high quality references and leave no doubt about the effectiveness of Beta sitosterol on humans.<<



http://www.thenutritionreporter.com/remedies_for_inflammation.html
By Jack Challem
Copyright 2000 by Jack Challem, The Nutrition Reporter™
All rights reserved. This article originally appeared in Let's Live magazine.

With the fanfare of a holiday parade, drug companies last year unveiled two new Cox-2 inhibitor drugs-Celebrex and Vioxx-to treat arthritis, inflammation, premenstrual syndrome, and potentially even cancer. All the hoopla paid off. Since then, doctors have written more than seven million prescriptions for these "super aspirin" drugs, earning hundreds of million dollars for their makers.

Cox-2 is short for cyclooxygenase-2, one of the key enzymes that helps the body produce inflammatory hormone-like compounds called prostaglandins and cytokines. Cox-2 is essential-without it, we wouldn't be able to fight infections or heal injuries. But when the body overproduces Cox-2, the result is chronic inflammation and pain.

The intensive marketing and advertising of Cox-2 inhibitors obscured why many people overproduce the enzyme. Too much Cox-2 appears to result from imbalances and deficiencies of certain nutrients. Rather than correct these underlying dietary problems, pharmaceutical Cox-2 inhibitors only mask the most visible symptoms. Relatively minor dietary changes, plus some vitamin and herbal supplements, correct the underlying problems.
LE Magazine February 2004
Cardiologists Overlook Lifesaving Discovery
William Faloon

Impressive research published in 2003 indicates that coenzyme Q10 may have broader clinical applications than originally identified. These new human studies further validate the efficacy of coenzyme Q10 in the adjuvant treatment of cardiovascular disease.1-9

In particular, a study of heart attack patients showed that compared to placebo, supplementation with 120 mg a day of coenzyme Q10 reduced secondary cardiac events by 45% and significantly reduced the number of cardiac deaths. Many of these heart-attack patients were prescribed a “statin” drug to lower cholesterol levels. The major adverse effect of statin treatment was fatigue that occurred in 40.8% of the placebo group, whereas only 6.8% of the patients supplemented with coenzyme Q10 experienced fatigue.2


1: Martins JM, Riottot M, de Abreu MC, Lanca MJ, Viegas-Crespo AM, Almeida JA, Freire JB, Bento OP. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Dietary raw peas (Pisum sativum L.) reduce plasma total and LDL cholesterol and hepatic esterified cholesterol in intact and ileorectal anastomosed pigs fed cholesterol-rich diets.
J Nutr. 2004 Dec;134(12):3305-12.
PMID: 15570030
2: Varady KA, Ebine N, Vanstone CA, Parsons WE, Jones PJ. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Plant sterols and endurance training combine to favorably alter plasma lipid profiles in previously sedentary hypercholesterolemic adults after 8 wk.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Nov;80(5):1159-66.
PMID: 15531661
3: Cicero AF, Minardi M, Mirembe S, Pedro E, Gaddi A. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Effects of a new low dose soy protein/beta-sitosterol association on plasma lipid levels and oxidation.
Eur J Nutr. 2004 Oct;43(5):319-22. Epub 2004 Jan 26.
PMID: 15309453
4: Delaney B, Stevens LA, Schmelzer W, Haworth J, McCurry S, Hilfinger JM, Kim JS, Tsume Y, Amidon GL, Kritchevsky D. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Oral absorption of phytosterols and emulsified phytosterols by Sprague-Dawley rats.
J Nutr Biochem. 2004 May;15(5):289-95.
PMID: 15135153
5: Song YH, Hong S, Lim H, Seo J, Chung S, No I, Lee K, Yoon M. Related Articles, Links
Free Full Text Effect of a new beta-sitosterol analogue on plasma lipid concentrations in rats.
Chem Pharm Bull (Tokyo). 2004 May;52(5):597-601.
PMID: 15133213
6: Ketomaki A, Gylling H, Miettinen TA. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Effects of plant stanol and sterol esters on serum phytosterols in a family with familial hypercholesterolemia including a homozygous subject.
J Lab Clin Med. 2004 Apr;143(4):255-62.
PMID: 15085084
7: Devaraj S, Jialal I, Vega-Lopez S. Related Articles, Links
Free Full Text Plant sterol-fortified orange juice effectively lowers cholesterol levels in mildly hypercholesterolemic healthy individuals.
Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2004 Mar;24(3):e25-8. Epub 2004 Feb 05.
PMID: 14764424
8: Ntanios FY, van de Kooij AJ, de Deckere EA, Duchateau GS, Trautwein EA. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Effects of various amounts of dietary plant sterol esters on plasma and hepatic sterol concentration and aortic foam cell formation of cholesterol-fed hamsters.
Atherosclerosis. 2003 Jul;169(1):41-50.
PMID: 12860249
9: Hobbs HH, Graf GA, Yu L, Wilund KR, Cohen JC. Related Articles, Links
No abstract Genetic defenses against hypercholesterolemia.
Cold Spring Harb Symp Quant Biol. 2002;67:499-505. Review. No abstract available.
PMID: 12858576
10: Rader DJ, Cohen J, Hobbs HH. Related Articles, Links
Free in PMC Monogenic hypercholesterolemia: new insights in pathogenesis and treatment.
J Clin Invest. 2003 Jun;111(12):1795-803. Review. No abstract available.
PMID: 12813012
11: Hendriks HF, Brink EJ, Meijer GW, Princen HM, Ntanios FY. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Safety of long-term consumption of plant sterol esters-enriched spread.
Eur J Clin Nutr. 2003 May;57(5):681-92.
PMID: 12771969
12: Ketomaki AM, Gylling H, Antikainen M, Siimes MA, Miettinen TA. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Red cell and plasma plant sterols are related during consumption of plant stanol and sterol ester spreads in children with hypercholesterolemia.
J Pediatr. 2003 May;142(5):524-31.
PMID: 12756385
13: Gilman CI, Leusch FD, Breckenridge WC, MacLatchy DL. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Effects of a phytosterol mixture on male fish plasma lipoprotein fractions and testis P450scc activity.
Gen Comp Endocrinol. 2003 Feb 1;130(2):172-84.
PMID: 12568795
14: Barbagallo CM, Emmanuele G, Cefalu AB, Fiore B, Noto D, Mazzarino MC, Pace A, Brogna A, Rizzo M, Corsini A, Notarbartolo A, Travali S, Averna MR. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Autosomal recessive hypercholesterolemia in a Sicilian kindred harboring the 432insA mutation of the ARH gene.
Atherosclerosis. 2003 Feb;166(2):395-400. Review.
PMID: 12535754
15: Andrikopoulos NK, Kaliora AC, Assimopoulou AN, Papageorgiou VP. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Inhibitory activity of minor polyphenolic and nonpolyphenolic constituents of olive oil against in vitro low-density lipoprotein oxidation.
J Med Food. 2002 Spring;5(1):1-7.
PMID: 12511107
16: Sudhop T, Gottwald BM, von Bergmann K. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Serum plant sterols as a potential risk factor for coronary heart disease.
Metabolism. 2002 Dec;51(12):1519-21.
PMID: 12489060
17: Cicero AF, Fiorito A, Panourgia MP, Sangiorgi Z, Gaddi A. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Effects of a new soy/beta-sitosterol supplement on plasma lipids in moderately hypercholesterolemic subjects.
J Am Diet Assoc. 2002 Dec;102(12):1807-11.
PMID: 12487546
18: Vanstone CA, Raeini-Sarjaz M, Parsons WE, Jones PJ. Related Articles, Links
Free Full Text Unesterified plant sterols and stanols lower LDL-cholesterol concentrations equivalently in hypercholesterolemic persons.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2002 Dec;76(6):1272-8.
PMID: 12450893
19: Ijzerman RG, Stehouwer CD, de Geus EJ, van Weissenbruch MM, Delemarre-van de Waal HA, Boomsma DI.

[Emillereid]

53. I concur -- to the extent that statins work they work through their

anti-inflammatory properties. When one looks at the actual data in these studies (not the hype) one finds that their benefits are slight and the risks great. There is actually a growing movement away from the cholesterol theory of heart disease -- check out The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics or www.thincs.org

Read their augmented press release:
Concerned Scientists Dispute New Cholesterol-Lowering Guidelines


Statin Drug Treatment Carries Great Risk, Few Benefits

LUND, Sweden, August 18 /PRNewswire/: Recently revised cholesterol-lowering guidelines constitute a major risk to public health according to The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics, (THINCS), a non-profit organization of doctors, scientists and researchers. 


The new guidelines, aimed at even more aggressive cholesterol lowering will result in millions more people being placed on statins. The evidence for a more aggressive treatment comes from two related trials which have been heralded as demonstrating that greater cholesterol lowering resulted in greater protection against heart disease. 


These studies, PROVE-IT1 and REVERSE,2 were hugely flawed, and cannot be said to have proven anything. Two different drug types were given and the benefits were directly related to the drug type, and not to the degree of cholesterol lowering.3,4 


THINCS´ members are deeply disturbed by the ever-increasing pressure to lower blood cholesterol levels, and the underlying commercial interests that have distorted scientific research in this area. THINCS warns that statins have been excessively ‘hyped’ by the pharmaceutical industry and medical opinion leaders who have, unfortunately, become little more than paid advertorials.


"These drugs have been shown to produce an alarming array of side effects," states Uffe Ravnskov, MD, PhD, THINCS Chairman. "Furthermore, the public and medical profession do not realize that statins only benefit a small and select portion of the population."....
http://www.thincs.org/pressrelease82004.htm

and check out their articles:
http://thincs.org/news.htm

[HysteryDiagnosis]

61. There is actually a growing movement away from the cholesterol theory

I've intuitively known this for years. If you read the right stuff, if you dig a little deeper than the med books... all will become clear in time... the scales will be removed, the truth will reveal itself in spite of the constant media bombardment by the pharmco charlatans and carnival workers.... bastards.

[ElectroPrincess]

25. Yes, I concur ... Long term wise - wonder what may be down the line?

Say after we're juiced with STATINs for 20 years?!? I wonder if some insipid illness may just bite us in the a** for behaving anal-retentive, not to mention paying big bucks to the pharmaceutical companies.

Especially when there's holistic alternatives. Who knows for certain ... they just may work better, with fewer side effects, and no long term toxicity. :shrug:

[PeteGammons]

44. "no heart disease"?

There was basically no heart disease in 1900. Wonder what happened since then.

Well, one of the significant things that has happened is that the life expectancy has risen from 47 to 75. Another is that people are far more likely to visit the doctor more often, as well as the existence of MRI and CAT SCAN and Ultrasound tests to "see" what's going on inside. I don't know, but the rates of heart disease may not have actually changed all that much.

[FloridaPat]

46. The life expectancy for those over 10 years of age has only risen

4 years in the last 200 years. There just was very little heart disease back then. People ate real food without all the garbage they put into food these days. They actually had to walk. They worked in the fields. Doctors made house calls and got paid in cash and chickens. We have lost our health in the last 100 years.

[RobertSeattle]

3. * If they don't kill your Liver first

I'm very suspicious of these new medicines that don't cure a problem but only mask it (like the Cholesterol drugs do) - the profit motive is so powerful it could easily overwhelm ethics.

[ElectroPrincess]

27. That's a very interesting theory ... I've read that our bodies

make cholesterol if "some indicator" is tripped to communicate to the body that it must fight inflammation.

Yes, damn! So what you are hinting at is - the inflammation and damage to the arteries is going along in it's merry way, but high levels of cholesterol doesn't show up in the blood tests?

Our arteries would not be blocked but atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries) may be a process that is more complex than merely inflammation and the other actions of our soon to be touted as MIRACLE DRUGS ... The Statins.

Time will tell. :shrug:

[BrklynLiberal]

35. A minor technicality!! HAHAHAHAHAHA Low cholesterol, BUT NO LIVER!!

[burrowowl]

39. Yup!

Heart is in good condition, liver shot.
Plus, seems to attack muscles .....

[Warren Stupidity]

4. hmmmm....

Scott M. Grundy of the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas, who chaired the federal panel, welcomed the findings. But he said the panel probably would wait for the final two studies before issuing new recommendations, particularly because the new study did not show any drop in the death rate. In fact, there was also a small but puzzling increase in the overall number of deaths among those taking the high doses. In addition, the drugs can have side effects, including potentially life-threatening liver problems in a small number of patients

Statins are also associated with a severe and potentially life-threatening muscle tissue problem due to the fact that they can block something called CoEnzyme Q10, which appears to be really vital for your muscles.

There is just tons of money riding on all of these big studies. You have to read them very carefully and with a skeptical eye.

That said, I'm on statins and they appear to be helping me. (And I take a CoQ10 supplement.)

[medeak]

7. just saw your post

how many mgs of CoQ10 are you taking? Am told Lipitor is coming out with CoQ10 which is admission of guilt in my mind.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. my understanding is that

the company who owns Lipitor has had a patent on Lipitor+CoQ10 for YEARS.

I take 100mg CoQ10 with 20mg lipitor. I ran it past my doctor, who rolled his eyes a bit but said it was fine. I think doctors hate the internet :-)

I googled the whole thing a lot before I started up on it. I don't think there are any known downsides to CoQ10, and the 100mg or 50mg caps widely available seem to be fairly standard. I started with 50mg/10mg and when the doc raised me to 20 I doubled down on the CoQ10 :-)

[medeak]

14. husband takes

600 mg and off Lipitor for a year. Trying to regain neurological effects from the drug

[HysteryDiagnosis]

11. Time to rack up the posthumous lawsuits.... bastards. Check this out.

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2003/12/13/statin_drugs_coenzyme_q10_depletion.htm
Statin Drugs & Coenzyme Q10 Depletion
Control tactics

Health through Nutrition

Practical Health
Update

Thanks to Ron Law, I have included the patent reference below. This patent was issued in 1989 so this is not new news - one can only wonder of the number of people who died from congestive heart and other issues as a result of this shady tactic...

See: Petition by Dr. Julian M. Whitaker, M.D. and a review of pertinent human and animal data.

Further on the theme of, dangerous and useless, Statin Drugs. The following adds another downside as if more are needed - severe nutritional cost of the drug. Merck actually patented (4,933,165) a combination of statin and CQ10 in a pill but never put it on the market, given the marketing shenanigans (patent to prevent others from marketing such a pill) of these scoundrels it is just the thing to do to protect their business with disease.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/feb2004_awsi_01.htm
LE Magazine February 2004
Cardiologists Overlook Lifesaving Discovery
William Faloon

Impressive research published in 2003 indicates that coenzyme Q10 may have broader clinical applications than originally identified. These new human studies further validate the efficacy of coenzyme Q10 in the adjuvant treatment of cardiovascular disease.1-9

In particular, a study of heart attack patients showed that compared to placebo, supplementation with 120 mg a day of coenzyme Q10 reduced secondary cardiac events by 45% and significantly reduced the number of cardiac deaths. Many of these heart-attack patients were prescribed a “statin” drug to lower cholesterol levels. The major adverse effect of statin treatment was fatigue that occurred in 40.8% of the placebo group, whereas only 6.8% of the patients supplemented with coenzyme Q10 experienced fatigue.2

http://www.heart-disease-bypass-surgery.com/data/articles/66.htm
Coenzyme Q10 -- also called ubiquinone, which means "occurring everywhere" -- plays an important role in the manufacture of ATP, the fuel that runs cellular processes. Though it is present in every cell in your body, it is especially concentrated in the very active cells of your heart. Depriving the heart of CoQ10 is like removing a spark plug from your engine -- it just won't work. Low levels of CoQ10 are implicated in virtually all cardiovascular diseases, including angina, hypertension, cardiomyopathy and congestive heart failure.

WHAT IS MERCK WAITING FOR???

Merck knew that statins deplete CoQ10, and knew that this could contribute to heart disease. In 1990, this drug manufacturer sought and received a patent for Mevacor and other statin drugs formulated with up to 1,000 mg of coenzyme Q10 to prevent or alleviate cardiomyopathy, a serious condition that can cause congestive heart failure. However, Merck has not brought these combination products to market, nor has this drug company educated physicians on the important of supplementing CoQ10 to offset the dangers of these drugs to the heart. Because they hold the patent, other drug companies are prevented from coming out with a statin/CoQ10 product.

If you're taking a statin drug (Zocor, Provacol, etc.), don't

[Titooqanaawit]

19. help

Hi, thanks for the info,,,I took Vioxx but I can't remember If I took it before I had a heart attact, but I had just given myself a shot of Imitrex and five minutes later boom. also I take Zocor now and are you saying to take CoQ10 or not?

[DeepModem Mom]

21. Welcome to DU, Titooqanaawit --

can't answer your question, but wishing you good health!

[Titooqanaawit]

24. Thanks Deep Modem Mom

Slow in answering ,,,,sorry....thanks for the welcome.

[Hissyspit]

30. Welcome!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

41. I'm sort of saying goto

www.lef.org and look up heart issues in the drop down menu "and" go here
to ask your question.... he is a 30+ year veteran cardiologist who has lectured to other cardiologists... mainly because he has studied what should have been taught in med school. You may want to peruse the rest of the links in my sig line... welcome. :)

www.SinatraMD.com
Ask Dr. Sinatra your most pressing health questions!

Dr. Sinatra loves to speak directly with his subscribers, and so he has created his popular Web Chats to answer your most pressing health questions. Anything goes in this fast-paced, informative hour and a half session. Join us, Friday, March 11th, 2005 from 12noon - 1:30pm E.S.T. . Whether you’re interested in cardiac issues, vitamin supplementation, or general health, Dr. Sinatra welcomes your questions. To enhance your chances of having your question answered, Click here to submit a question now.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

43. Okay.... read this.

What do the Japanese know that makes them so fond of our citrus products???



http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/page2.html#HEART

According to the world's only twice-unshared Nobel prize winner, Linus Pauling, "heart disease" is a chronic form of scurvy - the vitamin C deficiency disease! Read the COMPLETE UNIFIED THEORY that explains why Lp(a) cholesterol acting as surrogate for low vitamin C, leads to atherosclerosis.



CHRONIC SCURVY
The 50-year Suppression of the Real Nature, Cause and Outright Cure for Heart Disease ... - By Foundation Co-Founder, 2005

[Emillereid]

54. I wrote a paper about their theory a while back -- I started out

skeptical but became more and more impressed. It's a word doc if anyone wants a copy.

[doc05]

52. If you've had an MI, please please please don't

get your medical advice from here. Sit down with your doctor face to face and decide what's best for you.

[Emillereid]

55. I agree -- but see that doctor armed with your own research.

My doctor tells me she feels stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place with regard to statins. She doesn't think they're that good, but is afraid not to prescribe them -- in case 'something' happens. She hates the whole idea of recipe/lab number driven medicine, but fears that if she bucks it, she'll either get in trouble with the AMA or get sued.

There really are real doctors and scientists who do not agree with the cholesterol theory of heart disease. Check out www.thincs.org

Anyway if one were to get excited about a lab number the ones I'd check into would be C-reactive protein, LpA and cortisol.

[DeepModem Mom]

56. Thanks for your post, doc05, and thanks for joining us here at DU!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

63. Statin induced cardiomyopathy... that's what I want. eom.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

66. And he won't have a clue about this btw.... so see your doc and

EDUCATE YOURSELF, anything less could be life threatening.

1: Mol Cell Biochem. 2003 Apr;246(1-2):75-82. Related Articles, Links

Effect of coenzyme Q10 on risk of atherosclerosis in patients with recent myocardial infarction.

Singh RB, Neki NS, Kartikey K, Pella D, Kumar A, Niaz MA, Thakur AS.

Medical Hospital and Research Centre, Moradabad, India. [e-mail]

In a randomized, double-blind, controlled trial, the effects of oral treatment with coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10, 120 mg/day), a bioenergetic and antioxidant cytoprotective agent, were compared for 1 year, on the risk factors of atherosclerosis, in 73 (CoQ, group A) and 71 (B vitamin group B) patients after acute myocardial infarction (AMI). After 1 year, total cardiac events (24.6 vs. 45.0%, p < 0.02) including non-fatal infarction (13.7 vs. 25.3%, p < 0.05) and cardiac deaths were significantly lower in the intervention group compared to control group.

The extent of cardiac disease, elevation in cardiac enzymes, left ventricular enlargement, previous coronary artery disease and elapsed time from symptom onset to infarction at entry to study showed no significant differences between the two groups. Plasma level of vitamin E (32.4 +/- 4.3 vs. 22.1 +/- 3.6 umol/L) and high density lipoprotein cholesterol (1.26 +/- 0.43 vs. 1.12 +/- 0.32 mmol/L) showed significant (p < 0.05) increase whereas thiobarbituric acid reactive substances, malondialdehyde (1.9 + 0.31 vs. 3.1 + 0.32 pmol/L) and diene conjugates showed significant reduction respectively in the CoQ group compared to control group.

Approximately half of the patients in each group (n = 36 vs. 31) were receiving lovastatin (10 mg/day) and both groups had a significant reduction in total and low density lipoprotein cholesterol compared to baseline levels.

It is possible that treatment with CoQ10 in patients with recent MI may be beneficial in patients with high risk of atherothrombosis, despite optimal lipid lowering therapy during a follow-up of 1 year. Adverse effect of treatments showed that fatigue (40.8 vs. 6.8%, p < 0.01) was more common in the control group than CoQ group.

Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 12841346

[Titooqanaawit]

23. New to this site.

4MoronicYears,,,I have been reading your posts for awhile and you are well informed thanks for the links and I guess I will be doing a lot of reading. I take a lot of meds and need to learn more about what I am taking.

[medeak]

5. Statin Drugs are going to be the next Vioxx

Husband enrolled in only statin study not funded by pharmaceutical corp. (USCSanDiego)

We've found other studies from Canada and Germany (duh..not controlled by drug companies) of serious neurological effects.

Everytime I post this I get flamed so don't bother...hooked up with some incredible docs who have same malady. If someone really is serious about info pm me.

[lilymercury]

8. Lipapro? almost killed me.

I think that was the name, it was 2002. I had horrible deep muscle pain for months and doctor ignored me, finally another doctor listened and immediately took me off. Said I was in imminent danger of having a heart attack, I was 43. I felt better within a few weeks, but it was SCARY!!

on edit> lipitor was the med

[RobertSeattle]

13. For me it was Crestor

I was on Lipitor (had no negative reaction but I swear Lipitor caused me to have exceedingly awesome dreams!), slacked off for a couple of months, then my Doc put me on Crestor. Within a month I had persistent back aches and pain around my kidneys. Take me off this stuff Doc!!!

Do Doctors get kickbacks for prescribing various drugs? I have a great doctor, but I'm a little suspicious about how eager he was to get me off Lipitor and onto Crestor.

[Hissyspit]

31. Wouldn't go on Crestor because of the

I haven't noticed any problems with Lipitor (hadn't thought about my dreams, lately), but I am going to start taking CoQ10 supplement. I used to take it years ago. But it's not clear to me that even a supplement is useful. What if Lipitor blocks it completely?

[lilymercury]

6. Did you know that big pharma are the ones involved

in setting the cholesterol levels? and the blood pressure also? Need to find link, it was quite awhile ago that I read the information. It definitely made me question any medication given by a physician when levels are just above "limits".

[DeepModem Mom]

12. Thanks for posting, lilymercury -- and welcome to DU!

[MakeItSo]

16. Very low cholesterol ALSO associated with early mortality

NUMEROUS studies have shown a link between very LOW cholesterol and EARLY DEATH.

Just don't expect Big Pharma to trumpet these studies. It won't add to their bottom line.

Perhaps the Bacon Industry will consider promoting them, however.

"Epidemiological studies have consistently reported a U-shaped relationship between total cholesterol and all-cause mortality. A recent meta-analysis confirms that at high levels of cholesterol the increase in total mortality is due to a sharply increased risk of cardiovascular death, particularly death from coronary heart disease (CHD). At low levels of cholesterol, where the cardiovascular death rate is low, the increase in total mortality is due to a number of causes, including trauma, cancer, hemorrhagic stroke, and respiratory and infectious diseases."

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=1208

[DeepModem Mom]

17. Thanks for this info, MakeItSo, and welcome to DU!

[KittyWampus]

20. If You Have Drastically Low Cholesterol Somethings Wrong With You-

hence early death.

[lilymercury]

26. Thank you DeepModem Mom! Good to be here among the almost sane!

[DeepModem Mom]

47. "Almost sane" -- LOL!

:-)

[medeak]

32. medical ghostwriters

are paid over $100,000 to write drug reports.. nothing would surprise me in re to setting cholesterol limits.

CBC MARKETPLACE: HEALTH » MEDICAL GHOSTWRITING

Inside the business of medical ghostwriting
Broadcast: March 25, 2003 | Reporter: Erica Johnson; Producer: Michael Gruzuk; Researcher: Colman Jones

A medical ghostwriter can make $100,000 a year writing favourable drug reports
Medical ghostwriting: you may not have heard of it, but you'll probably want to know about it. It's a world that could make your doctor prescribe the wrong drug.

For trusted guidance, articles rigorously reviewed in medical journals are the gold standard when it comes to scrutinized, scientific reports. They're what our doctors rely on to make decisions affecting our health. But more and more we can’t be sure who’s serving up that medical advice.

Medical ghostwriting can be as scary as it is spooky. People with scientific backgrounds —often with PhDs— are paid to stay in the shadows and crank out favourable reports for drug companies. Then, drug companies get doctors to put their names on the studies — for money, prestige, or perks.

Marketplace tracked down ghostwriters in Vancouver, Montreal and Ottawa. One agreed to talk with us, but only if we protected their identity. Their job could vanish if their identity is revealed. We'll call our busy ghostwriter Blair Snitch. Blair Snitch is paid to write up positive reports. Bad side-effects that could affect patient safety, are sometimes completely ignored.

[mahina]

37. Welcome and aloha!

Wow, I didn't know pharma set the levels. Hmmm...

[medeak]

15. Parkinson's and Statins

this was sent to me by physician who had it translated from German:

The following is a translation of “Statin Induced Parkinson’s Syndrome” which is a letter responding to the article in Der Nevenarzt (German Medical Journal) authored by J. Finsterer (2003) 74:115-122.

The letter is authored by Dr. Th. Muller

To the excellent review about the development of myopathies following long-term medication of cholesterol level decreasing fibrates and statins, there should be considered in regard additional differential diagnostic possibilities. Because of the similar clinical symptomatology with muscle aches and increased stiffness, the diagnosis of statin-induced aggravated Parkinson Disease Syndrome should be discussed. The development of such muscular side effects is seen more with statins than with fibrates. The case report in Table 1 indicates the history of a 60 year old patient with statin-induced Parkinson Syndrome occurring over a long time.

On the other hand, with central effective statins, a possible neuro-protective effect in neuro-degenerative diseases has been considered, especially in dementia. But long term use of statins, especially Lovastatin, leads to the reduction of coenzyme Q10 and can cause damage of the mitochondrial breathing chain. Co Q-10 is an electron receptor in the mitochondrial complexes 1 and 2 and very effective absorber of radicals. This antigen substance increases the complex 1 activity. Co-Q10 shows a certain therapeutic effect with encephalomyopathy where there is a lack of various enzyme functions of the breathing chain. Dysfunction of various parts of the mitochondrial breathing chain is also considered in the pathophysiological mechanism of idiopathic Parkinson’s disease. Treatment with Co-Q10 in patients who are not treated with Dopamine for Parkinson patients, caused less disease symptomatology and progression than patients treated with placebo, though placebo treatment can cause stimulation of dopaminergic neurotransmission. Therefore, the long-term treatment with Co-Q10 possibly is neuroprotective in idiopathic morbid Parkinson, though new evidence shows it appears to cause mild symptomatic effect. Under these circumstances treatment with prophylactic medication of Co-Q10 which has been well tolerated in doses up to 1200mgm in patients with neurodegenerative diseases should be considered for statin myopathy or statin-induced Parkinson syndrome in addition to discontinuation of the cholesterol decreasing medication.

The Table 1 summarizes a patient with Parkinson syndrome. 1995—start of therapy with Flurastatin 40 mg.

1997 increasing weakness with shoulder and hip pain on the right

1999- diagnosis of right sided Parkinson syndrome of akinetic dominance type. Careful induction of Pergolid with daily doses of 3 mg and Salagen 7.5 mgm

2000 complaints about increasing edema development in legs, loss o hair, start of a potassium sparing diuretic and increasing of Pergolid medication from 4.5 mg in June 2000 to 6 mgm in December.

March 2001 discontinuation of Flurastatin, continuation of Pergolid 6 mg

June 2001 reduction of Pergolid to 4 mgm

Sept 2001 Pergolid 3 mgm

Improvement of edema

December 2001 discontinuation of Pergolid and diuretics

March, 2002 discontinuation of Salagen

[KittyWampus]

18. Statin- Derived From Red Rice Yeast. Pure, Controlled Supplies

available in health food stores. Wouldn't Suggest taking it without seeking advice from a naturopathic practioner.

Also, see gugulipid & hawthorn both of which are effective rememdies that've been used for centuries in Ayurvedic and Chinese medicine for treating heart problems.

[Dcitizen]

28. Maybe few soup spoons of red rice a day is enough.

Over dose can cause fatige for me after 2 weeks. :-)

[Dcitizen]

33. Duplicate erased.

[SOS]

58. Policosanol

has worked for me. 20mg a day. It was discovered in Cuba and is derived from sugar cane.
Lipitor is over $100 a month, but policosanol is about $12. Doctor says my results are what she would have expected from Lipitor, which I refused to take, despite her suggestion that I do so.
I researched policosanol and the Source Naturals brand did have the advertised 10 mg per tablet and was really derived from sugar cane.

[Dcitizen]

75. It's amazing and no side effects.

[4dog]

22. More about cholesterol, and statin side effects

The Cholesterol Myths by a Scandinavian doctor analyzes how the supposed connection between cholesterol and heart disease was made by selecting from available data. A summary of the main points, which will probably surprise you, is at http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm

Uffe Ravnskov, The Cholesterol Myths. New Trends Publishing, Washington DC, 2000.
http://www.newtrendspublishing.com/

A study that appears to be independent of big pharma:
Statin Effects Study
http://medicine.ucsd.edu/SES/contact.htm
Not too much published yet, but can look in PubMed under Dr. Golomb.

Another book by an American doctor.
Lipitor® Thief of Memory. Statin Drugs and the Misguided War on Cholesterol, by Duane Graveline, M.D.

From Dr. Graveline's site: In his search of the medical and scientific literature for an explanation for his own statin associated transient global amnesia this former astronaut and retired family doctor reveals to his readers the critical importance of cholesterol for proper brain function and memory and the reasons for the damage statin drugs do to our muscles, nerves and heart and even our personalities.

http://www.spacedoc.net/

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics
http://www.thincs.org/

[medeak]

48. thanks for this

sent to Dr. friend and he replied that Dr. Graveline is currently doing book of effects of statins on physician's and friend is included.

[medeak]

29. here come the lawyers:

Did Lipitor cause this?
Local lawyer blames cholesterol drug for paralysis

By Ben Montgomery
Times Herald-Record
[e-mail]

Newburgh – Michael Mazzariello's wife rolled him over on his hospital bed up in room 403 at St. Luke's. The white sheets bunched around his waist.
"I can't get up," he said, sobbing. "Can't hold my kids. I can't pick up little Mario. You know what that's like? I can't lift my baby, man."
You know the 45-year-old Mazzariello because he's an aggressive defense attorney in Orange County and he's in these pages a lot. But the loudmouth lawyer, who appears on Court TV and hosts an AM radio show, has been in the hospital for the past 10 days.
He can't walk unless he's loaded with painkillers. He can't turn over in his hospital bed without help. He feels like his flesh is burning.
"Tuesday night I thought I was gonna die," he said. "If it wasn't for the wife and kids, I would've just killed myself."
Worse, the doctors aren't sure exactly what's wrong with him.
They know this: Mazzariello has, for three months, been taking the Pfizer drug Lipitor, the world's best-selling medicine, to lower his cholesterol. And one of the listed side effects of the "statin" drug is rhabdomyolysis, a rare condition in which serious muscle damage results in the release of muscle cell contents into the bloodstream. Sometimes it's fatal.

[KoKo]

36. My husband has been on Pravacol for 6 years and his cardiologist

is also on it. (Cardiologist is only 42) When the dosage of Pravacol he was on didn't seem to be getting his cholesterol down enough, he was switched to Lipitor. After a month he was having memory problems and not himself. I asked him to go back on the Pravacol. He did but he decided on his own to take the higher dose but cut one of the pills in half. The extra half pill of Pravacol along with his old dose made the difference in his cholesterol, along with adding Benacol Margerine to his diet. His cardiologist recommended against him halving the pill saying you had t o take it the way it's prescribed, so hubby didn't mention what he was doing with the extra pill, again. He hasn't had any problem with the Pravacol and it's the first of the Statin's and his Cardio says he feels it's the safest because it's been out longer than the copy cats by the other companies. He only prescribed the Lipitor because my husband didn't want to take the extra Pravacol and Lipitor was a lower dose for supposedly the same effect. But it was awful for him.

I guess it depends on your own body chemistry..but with drugs, sometimes the one that's been around the longest might be safer than the competitors new one.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

65. MI and CoQ10

1: Mol Cell Biochem. 2003 Apr;246(1-2):75-82. Related Articles, Links

Effect of coenzyme Q10 on risk of atherosclerosis in patients with recent myocardial infarction.

Singh RB, Neki NS, Kartikey K, Pella D, Kumar A, Niaz MA, Thakur AS.

Medical Hospital and Research Centre, Moradabad, India. [e-mail]

In a randomized, double-blind, controlled trial, the effects of oral treatment with coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10, 120 mg/day), a bioenergetic and antioxidant cytoprotective agent, were compared for 1 year, on the risk factors of atherosclerosis, in 73 (CoQ, group A) and 71 (B vitamin group B) patients after acute myocardial infarction (AMI). After 1 year, total cardiac events (24.6 vs. 45.0%, p < 0.02) including non-fatal infarction (13.7 vs. 25.3%, p < 0.05) and cardiac deaths were significantly lower in the intervention group compared to control group. The extent of cardiac disease, elevation in cardiac enzymes, left ventricular enlargement, previous coronary artery disease and elapsed time from symptom onset to infarction at entry to study showed no significant differences between the two groups. Plasma level of vitamin E (32.4 +/- 4.3 vs. 22.1 +/- 3.6 umol/L) and high density lipoprotein cholesterol (1.26 +/- 0.43 vs. 1.12 +/- 0.32 mmol/L) showed significant (p < 0.05) increase whereas thiobarbituric acid reactive substances, malondialdehyde (1.9 + 0.31 vs. 3.1 + 0.32 pmol/L) and diene conjugates showed significant reduction respectively in the CoQ group compared to control group.

Approximately half of the patients in each group (n = 36 vs. 31) were receiving lovastatin (10 mg/day) and both groups had a significant reduction in total and low density lipoprotein cholesterol compared to baseline levels. It is possible that treatment with CoQ10 in patients with recent MI may be beneficial in patients with high risk of atherothrombosis, despite optimal lipid lowering therapy during a follow-up of 1 year. Adverse effect of treatments showed that fatigue (40.8 vs. 6.8%, p < 0.01) was more common in the control group than CoQ group.

Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial


PMID: 12841346

[Dcitizen]

34. Less known nobel prize Dr. Linus Pauling can save us, I have prayed.

This is new in 90s, and possible the best.

My doctors and cardiologists didnt know anything about vitamine therapy of Dr. Pauling! If any one know this, he/she can change the decision to go with invasion procedure.

I consumed extra vitamines of Dr Pauling for more than 6 months, and I find it's very safe, and hope it can clean up my vessels. So I post this info today for DU readers:

http://www.paulingtherapy.com/book.html

:-)

[medeak]

38. bowl of oatmeal is just as good

Husband's tests show levels the same with oatmeal as with Lipitor.

Linus Pauling rest in peace... lived to be 94 and way ahead of his time. There's no money in vitamins like pharmaceuticals...that's the problem.

[Dcitizen]

51. It tastes good and has highest nature L-proline and L-lysine too.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

42. Another great site......

www.VitaminCfoundation.org

[medeak]

40. FDA and pharmaceuticals sleep together..check this out....

this is email I received from oncologist who is suffering from Lipitor effects..

The scientist for Bayer testified that all study individuals who exhibited signs of swallowing problems were immediately dropped from the study--why? because major swallowing problems occurred in the original canine studies--and the company did not want those problems to show up anywhere--think ALS--one of the presenting symptoms of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis is swallowing problems.

Also, are you aware the FDA receives a "user fee" for each drug it allows to be placed on the market--increasing their overall budget.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

45. Check this graphic.....

http://vitamincfoundation.org/statinalert/

[medeak]

49. warnings only required in Canada...

that's just fecking great.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

62. that's just fecking great.

Why yes... it is "feckless". Glad you approve of the


FDA ---> (F)atal (D)rugs (A)llowed.

And the truth about nutrition vs disease will be relegated to the halls of charlatanism and voodoo medicine.

[medeak]

67. do you have this?

Doc saved my Mom's life with nutrition 11 yrs ago. (can you imagine?)

http://www.cancure.org/gonzales_clinic.htm

nice to "meet" you...feel sympatico

[HysteryDiagnosis]

68. Good doc there.... understands what needs to be understood

by every doc out there... and when that happens... the house of cards will come tumbling down and the will be removed from their ivory towers, people will understand that it is mainly their diet that is making them ill with this or that.... and that supplements all too often have the power to correct much of what ails them... nice to meet you too... hooray for your mom's accomplishment!!!

[BigBearJohn]

57. Sorry, but you will never get me on statins. There are natural ways

[daleo]

59. I recall reading about "the cholesterol paradox" back in early 1990s

The article was in Atlantic Monthly I think (before they started to skew rightward). The finding was that men who had aggressively treated cholesterol with drugs and diet did have lower heart attack death rates, but that was more than offset by rises in deaths from many other causes, among them car accidents, murder and suicide. It was even hypothesized that too much cholesterol deprivation might have been causing these peculiar effects.

It seems that this finding has been replicated (from the article):

"In fact, there was also a small but puzzling increase in the overall number of deaths among those taking the high doses."

This seems to show up a lot - a treatment is trumpeted for a particular condition, but has offsetting risks for other unanticipated body systems (HRT in women comes to mind). It may indicate that the reductionist world view of western medicine is oversimplified. Couple that with the financial imperatives of western capitalism (push that big drug at all costs) and you have the makings of some serious public health problems.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

64. Low cholesterol is associated with an increased risk of

developing cancer.

[Rainscents]

60. I take 3000mg of Ester - C Powder with Bioflavonoids

I like the Natrol brand.. I been taking this for 15 years and I anit dead yet! Matter of fact, I am extrely healthy and has no gray hair for 50. Do the research on Ester C.

[kutastha]

69. Can you guys help me?

You all know a lot of medicine. The FDA is nothing but corrupt and sleep with docs and the big pharma. I want to get away from this, and try some alternative medicine, not involved with the FDA. That being said, I've been type 1 diabetic for 25 years and would like to get off the insulin, lipitor and ramipril.

What do you all suggest, and what great informative websites are out there?

[KoKo]

70. No one here should take the place of doctors. It's only advice or

experience. If you are okay after 25 years then you've beat some odds. We shouldn't discount modern medicine miracles. BUT, that said, there are many folks for whom the drugs cause bad side effects...it just doesn't work with our own body chemistry...and actually there ARE folks working on finding out ways that can segment out DNA differences that cause some folks to have bad reactions to certain drugs while other folks live long, productive, health lives being ON Certain Drugs. Smaller "start up Biotech Companies" are focusing on this with hopes major drug companies will buy them out eventually.

Look at Dick Cheney for an example. This guy statistically should be dead..first heart attack in his 30's and some since...he's overweight, eats steak, and still manages to live while friends of mine are "pushing daisy's" after stents, bypasses and drug therapy and they are much younger than Cheney! So why is Cheney running the USA or at the least heavily involved and still going with a damned "defibrillator" which is usually the sign that things are "life threatening serious" in a cardiac patient. :shrug:

If you aren't having any problems with your "Meds" and it's personal choice then there's lots of articles in this thread about "natural remedies." But, "Natural" doesn't always mean "safer."

My hubby and I have been heavily involved for years with pharmaceutical companies. We've seen the "good" and the "very bad."

There's a "grey" area inbetween. As I said in an earlier post...the longer "on the market" the drug you take is the better. Avoid copycats unless you have something so serious you need a newer med to deal with it. The longer the drug has been on the market the longer it's been for patients to show up having problems with "lawsuits." Before Bush is better for all of us who need any kind of Meds because we know what his FDA is all about.

Lots of DU'ers use "natural" meds. Or do an internet search for studies on the individual drugs you are taking.

I understand what you are saying in wanting to get off all this stuff you are taking...just hope you will be cautious. Start with the least you need drug and try the "naturals" then work back from there. But after 25 years and you are okay and still alive...maybe what you are taking sort of works for you???:shrug:

[BuddhaGirl]

72. Look for a good naturopathic doctor

he/she can advise on diet changes and nutritional supplements. Alternative medicine is safe; just do your research and consult an expert in the field.

[Rainscents]

73. Here is one of the link you can look at...

http://www.cellhealthmakeover.com/diabetes.html

[hue]

71. Yes Indeedy!

Its so true that the statin drugs can cause liver failure. If your doc has you on them he is supposed to be monitoring your liver enzymes regularly. I personally don't like them because I agree with the above posts from you all that there are better ways of controlling cholesterol.

However, some peeple are more vulnerable to liver damage with statin drugs. those who ingest alot of alcohol and/or acetaminophen (Tylenol) would definitely be more vulnerable.
In fact acetaminophen overdose is the cause of about 40% of all cases of acute liver failure. Acetaminophen/Tylenol is much worse for your liver than statins. Many people overdose on acetaminophen and don't even know it. Also, many people take both Tylenol and alcohol and really ruin their livers quickly. Yet the liver regenerates itself amazingly well. So if you're on statins, drink heavily and take acetaminophen to ease your hangover--BEWARE!

http://www.hypertension-consult.com/Secure/textbookarticles/Textbook/121_Acetominophen.htm

[reprobate]

74. Recent lecture from Univ of Calif TV by head of angiography said

That in a long term study on the effectiveness of statins, it was found that the most effective was lipitor, and that long term treatment with 80 mg resulted in actual DECREASE in atherosclerosis.

IOW, lipitor and other statins not only lowered cholesterol levels, they reduced artery blockages to the point that the patients no longer needed bypass surgery.

He DID say that it was necessary when using the statins to check for liver function at least semiannually.

I would offer myself as proof. For the last ten years I have had a complete (100%) block of the subclavian artery. We attempted to open it with the balloon, but there wasn't even enough opening in the sclerotic area to get the wire thru to guide the balloon.

After several years of 80 mg lititor there is now a weak, but discernable pulse in that arm, and my doctor says there now should be enough opening there to thread the wire and open that succer for good, and the anibiotic stent should keep it that way. Say what you want, but for myself, I am thankful for the statins.

Of course we have been taking a complete blood profile at least twice a year, including liver function.

Like everything technological, there are positives and negatives to the statins and we must take both into account when deciding on therapies.

And luddites are not very happy people. Mainly because there aren't too many of them left.

[Dcitizen]

76. Intensive statin therapy reduces LDL, lipo & CRP to slow grow blockage.

Test with 502 patients, 18 months, LDL=98, CRP=2.3, Method = ultrasonography.

Statin Therapy, LDL Cholesterol, C-Reactive Protein, and Coronary Artery Disease
Nissen S. E., Tuzcu E. M., Schoenhagen P., Crowe T., Sasiela W. J., Tsai J., Orazem J., Magorien R. D., O'Shaughnessy C., Ganz P., the Reversal of Atherosclerosis with Aggressive Lipid Lowering (REVERSAL) Investigators
Abstract | Full Text | PDF
N Engl J Med 2005; 352:29-38, Jan 6, 2005. Original Articles
http://content.nejm.org/search.dtl

Comment: The lower LDL and CRP is a big help, but it is not a reversal. The elasticity of the artery's wall can also enlarge the internal path of vessels wider, so does any one know how the ultrasonography method can tell the difference between the elasticity of the internal wall of vessels and the reduction of growth rate?