14 Dems break rank (vote with Rs) to end debate on bankruptcy bill

[BlueInRed]

Political strategy reports that a bunch of Dems broke ranks to end debate on the bankruptcy bill. Here are the Ds who voted with the Rs to end debate (and thus clear the way for passing the bill):

Biden (D-DE), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea

They have more info on this over at http://www.politicalstrategy.org/archives/001214.php .

[mhr]

1. Traitors One And All - They Are Now On My Permanent DINO List

eom

[all.of.me]

26. what does DINO mean?

i grasp the meaning, but don't have it exactly. thanks.

[mhr]

27. Democrat In Name Only

eom

[hector459]

202. Read my lips: Most rich people don't give a damn about the working poor.

eom

[iwantmycountryback]

33. Yeah Robert Byrd's a real DINO

*rolls eyes* I don't agree with his vote right here but be serious.

[Warren Stupidity]

71. fine then explain his vote.

[V. Kid]

133. I think it's obvious...

...anyone of them who get money from the Credit Card lobby, will go this way and vote for the legislation. I remember reading an article somewhere discussing this 'political whoring' for a big local state industry no matter how liberal the Senator is. Someone really ought to push through campaign finance reform, or at least better campaign finance reform (ie: no Corporate or Union donations -- make it all individual and put limits on that). I don't think it will happen though, but it should be an issue that's addressed.

[Leilani]

138. McCain & Feingold are working on a new bill

but I don't know what it includes.

[stevebreeze]

148. unless the new bill provides for public funding it is not worth shit

[Leilani]

189. I think we need to give free air time

We own the airwaves, but we have no control. Pols fool around with rules for DECENCY, yet we have to pay for commercials to try & get a fair election?

It's all about the money.

[stevebreeze]

201. money and power you got it Leilani

it is why the middle class has not seen their standard of living increase in three decades.

[progressiveBadger]

177. Force them to disclose all donations on a public web page

Give them 24 hours to post any and all donations they receive to this publicly accessible page. Make them give the amount and who it came from. Then watch what happens when people realize who is really running this country.

[purduejake]

188. I think they already know their people receive lots of corporate money.

But most of the repukes don't care and vote against their interests just so they can have people in office who attack women, blacks, gays, you name it. They are truly sick people.

[manly]

192. "Force them to disclose all donations on a public web page"

What an excellent idea. Therefore there's no way will this ever get enacted.

[alarimer]

115. How much money did they get from the credit card

Comapnies?? I would say these are bought and paid for.

[renaissanceguy]

157. NO to Biden in '08

Over my dead body will he become our nominee. Hell, I'd rather have HILLARY over him.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/507794

[manly]

194. NO to Biden

Biden is a real hypocrite. His left hand doesn't know what his left hand is doing, but it's under the table, so we can't see it either. I wouldn't vote for him for dogcatcher.

[rooboy]

2. Et Tu, Byrd?? n/t

[BlueInRed]

5. I just double checked that and yes, Byrd

I am surprised by this. As I am with Stabenow and Kohl. Very disappointing.

[saigon68]

142. Kohl owns a string of department stores

That need credit cards to keep going


http://www.kohls.com/main/home.jsp




I hope he chokes on his own Bile

[eek]

172. Kohl no longer part of Kohl's

His family *did* strt it but
they sold their stake 23-odd years ago.

[placton]

164. my letter to Debbie Stabenow

Senator:
I noted you voted in favor of the new Bankruptcy bill recently. This is unbelievable to me, a life long Democrat. Are you now supporting the big money interests? I can only assume so.
My checkbook will stay in my pocket when next you ask for cash. I might even decide not to vote for you based on this.
It appears you've sold out on this bill - to the detriment of most of your constituents (the ones who can't write you checks for millions).
How sad.

And she's up for re-election - hope she loses, after this, even if it means a real Republican. We simply cannot have this.

[GiovanniC]

167. My Letter to Her

Senator Stabenow, I am frankly shocked and dismayed by your actions concerning the recent bankruptcy bill in Senate.

Credit card companies spent millions of dollars to screw over the poorest, the weakest, and the most voiceless among us, and by allowing that to happen you are complicit. You are responsible for a "reverse Robin Hood" -- assailing the poor to help the rich. There is positively NO EXCUSE for the miserably bad decision you made.

In late 2001/early 2002, after a combination of a lost job due to Bush's mismanagement of the employment market, nosediving investments due to Bush's bungling of the economy, and loss of home due to both of the above, I moved back in with my parents and fought to scrape together enough money to file for bankruptcy. I was one of the lucky ones -- having received a discharge of debt, I have maintained financial stability. Now that I am back on my feet financially, I repeatedly refuse the predatory credit card offers I continue to receive. I am credit-card-free and intend to stay that way. I am now living fairly comfortably on my own, am just months away from completely paying off my student loans (which were not discharged), and even have enough money for modest savings. Without the safety valve of bankruptcy, it's impossible to know where I would be right now.

It pains me to write this letter, as I have always been proud to call Governor Granholm my governor and Carl Levin and yourself my senators. But your actions regarding this bankruptcy bill offend me on a very personal level. If you had your way a few years earlier, I shudder to think what my living situation would be like today.

I sincerely hope whatever the credit card companies and financial institutions paid you for your soul was worth it to you. I have lost all respect for you and your office.

[placton]

168. Your letter is terrific

My view: let her lose next year. I will campaign against her - telling my fellow liberals to vote for the 3rd party candidates. We need to go down fighting, not licking the offal left by the GOP. And of course, Debby the Turncoat's opponent will be funded by the same people she voted for. Amazing!

[BlueInRed]

169. It is terrific, and

I will bet Stabenow will vote against the final bill, after voting to clear the way for it's passage (by voting against the ability to filibuster). So for most people in your state, they will never know she voted to end debate and to clear the way for the bill's passage. Sad.

I hope your letter will get published in a newspaper or other public forum. People deserve to know the details of this kind of situation.

[Bake]

207. How true. Her vote against it later won't matter.

What mattered, mattered NOW. She's a WHORE. Bought and paid for. Just like Biden, et al.

Bake

[progressivebydesign]

220. Might decide not to vote for her? I'd definitely not vote for her..

.. there is really no excuse for this vote. How could it have any type of positive effect on the people she is supposed to be serving?

[arcos]

15. Byrd was one of only two D's to vote against the abortion ammendment... nt

[rodeodance]

67. maybe Byrd is just having a bad hair day. the amend got 46 votes

which isn't bad, but still a very real loss

[Wabbajack]

82. I thought he was pro-choice

:wtf:

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

124. my thoughts exactly...

[Mr Rabble]

3. one party govt

at its finest...

[Robert Oak]

4. it's no wonder the democrats have lost all control of government

since they act like Republican lite or one big party called the
corporate party.

How I wish, even if just a few, we had a party in congress that
actually represented the people and never backed down or did stuff
like this.

[FourStarDemocrat]

147. And 45 million people still don't have health insurance.

Next, they will bring back the debtors prisons, and refer the medically impovershished to "faith-based" funded homeless shelters. They'll probrably call that another 'reform'.

[Robbien]

6. The six that voted for torturer Gonzales are all on this list

Lieberman, Salazar, Nelson, Nelson, Landrieu and Pryor.

[Arugula Latte]

43. Gee, Lieberman, what a surprise.

:eyes:

What a turd blossom and an asshat, to boot.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

74. Florida's Bill Nelson

you're kidding me?!!! /sarcasm

[pie]

7. Byrd AND Kohl?

What the fuck are these men thinking?

[Ian David]

16. Someone said Byrd sometimes votes for cloture but against the bill

So that he can be on-record that he voted against it.

Let's wait and see, but I'm not hopeful.

[trapper914]

158. You May Be On To Something

It could be that Byrd, Biden, et al voted for cloture just to get to the up/down vote, eliminating the "obstructionist" cries from the right. Then, when the bill passes without their votes, they can use it against the Republicans in 2006 and 2008. Keep in mind, the biggest bankruptcy states are Red states. The biggest reason for bankruptcy is due to out of control medical expenses (can you say affordable health care...a Dem position). This cloture vote could be key in winning back a seat or two.

[Bake]

208. Their later votes against it won't matter, because they know it PASSES

Their SPINES were MIA when it mattered. Voting to cut off debate was the death knell for the opposition, and they fucking knew it.

Bake

[Sugarbleus]

182. That is my question too.

I need a list of actual VOTES, up/down, on this bill.

[fleabert]

210. I think this is what you are looking for...

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00029

here is a page to see all recent votes

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_109_1.htm

[Sugarbleus]

221. Yes, thank you. I did go dig up the info on who did what....

Furthermore I watched the Senate this morning as they debated Kennedy's proposals for this bill. I continued to watch in stunned silence as Biden voted NAY on the new language for this bill as it pertains to single mother's/child support et al.

What, pray tell, is Biden's trip!!??

[madmark]

183. Cloture is the whole ball game

The republican majority cannot be stopped after cloture.

[Lizzie Borden]

22. My resonse too!

[pie]

104. I'm not sure whether to cry or puke or get drunk

I just don't get it

[ktowntennesseedem]

184. Get drunk! Then if you cry or puke you won't mind as much. eom

[rodeodance]

68. Kohl can be wishy washy at time. glad i do not see Feingold on this list

[wellst0nev0ter]

95. Kohl = Kohl Department Stores = Kohl Credit Cards

Byrd seems to only be progressive on war issues. Other than that . . .

[Mills Street]

153. I don't believe Kohl owns the stores anymore N/T

[Hebegirl]

222. I knew Salazar would be Rethug Lite

It's a damn shame, too. Because Mike Miles won the top of the Colorado Senate Primary ticket, but the DINOs in the state party (the same ones who blocked Dean nationally), wouldn't support him, and Salazar got the nomination. You should hear all the "warnings" we are now receiving in this state, about the "jihad" (I swear, that is how it was written in a local newspaper article last weekend) that the Mike Miles supporters initiated-- by voting in a new state party chairperson. PULEEEZE!!!!
The "warnings" all center around the Miles contingent "moving the party to the Left," etc etc which really means moving it back AWAY from rethug -lite which is squarely Salazar's camp. Maybe Pete Coors (talk about your Fortunate Son) would have won against Miles. I think I would have preferred that to this turncoat lite . If Salazar, Byrd, Biden or Lieberman - or any of the DINOs-- dares to support Shrub's social insecurity plan- I hope there is hell to pay.

[Democrats_win]

225. Good info on why we need the new chairperson. F*ck Salazar

I will never vote for this thug again.

[TheFarseer]

8. Writting Big Ben Nelson did alot

I can't wait for his return letter explaining his vote.

[acmavm]

42. Tell me, did you honestly expect some other action from good ol Ben?

He voted just like he always does, for his corporate buddies and his republican pals against the people who make up his party.

Ben Nelson is a walking shit heap.

[TheFarseer]

85. I think he's scared out of his wits by getting beat

in the next election. In some ways I can't blame him, but at some point you've got to wonder if it's worth being Senator if you can't vote how you want to. I really don't know if he's in someone's pocket. I want to believe he's not. I think he's first of all - a very conservative democrat and second - overly scared of not being re-elected.

[Trish1168]

9. Losers!

I wish they'd pay attention to the people.

[tubbacheez]

10. Anyone know when each of their terms are up for reelection?

The early ones will make great examples for the rest.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

111. From Project Vote Smart

http://www.vote-smart.org/

Biden (D-DE), Yea - 2008
Byrd (D-WV), Yea - 2006
Carper (D-DE), Yea - 2006
Conrad (D-ND), Yea - 2006
Johnson (D-SD), Yea - 2008
Kohl (D-WI), Yea - 2006
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea - 2008
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea - 2006
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea - 2010
Nelson (D-FL), Yea - 2006
Nelson (D-NE), Yea - 2006
Pryor (D-AR), Yea - 2008
Salazar (D-CO), Yea - 2010
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea - 2006

[City Lights]

11. Inscribe their names on the Wall of Shame.

Thanks for nothing, a-holes. :grr:

[htuttle]

12. Kohl!!

KOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHLLLLL!!!!!!

[jpgray]

13. Thanks--this is so tragic some humor is needed (nt)

[Lorien]

14. Lol!

OK, I needed that. ;-)

[Disturbed]

17. It sure looks like Amerika is for a rough time.

Except for the Oligarchy that rules.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

76. bahahahha

ahahahanice.:thumbsup:

[98geoduck]

18. Did anyone say same shit different pile yet. Third party please.

[Robbien]

25. Third? We don't need a third, but having two parties would be nice

instead of just one in which all congressmen listen only to coporate lobbyists.

[98geoduck]

28. great point, it's all such a blurrrrrrr and my eyesight is 15-20.

[murray hill farm]

19. Stabenow?

That suprises me.

[knitter4democracy]

52. Doesn't suprise me.

She's a ditz. I've met her, as she was my state rep and state senator growing up. I even played Equations against one of her bratty sons and performed a story (Forensics) for her and the Rotary club in town when I was in high school. I hate to say it, but I've never been that impressed with her.

[TahitiNut]

121. Stabenow finally lost my vote.

She's been a Quisling too often. This obscene legislation preys on the weakest by the wealthiest.

[barbaraann]

131. That's the one that shocks me.

n/t

[GiovanniC]

166. My Letter to Sen. Stabenow's Office

Senator Stabenow, I am frankly shocked and dismayed by your actions concerning the recent bankruptcy bill in Senate.

Credit card companies spent millions of dollars to screw over the poorest, the weakest, and the most voiceless among us, and by allowing that to happen you are complicit. You are responsible for a "reverse Robin Hood" -- assailing the poor to help the rich. There is positively NO EXCUSE for the miserably bad decision you made.

In late 2001/early 2002, after a combination of a lost job due to Bush's mismanagement of the employment market, nosediving investments due to Bush's bungling of the economy, and loss of home due to both of the above, I moved back in with my parents and fought to scrape together enough money to file for bankruptcy. I was one of the lucky ones -- having received a discharge of debt, I have maintained financial stability. Now that I am back on my feet financially, I repeatedly refuse the predatory credit card offers I continue to receive. I am credit-card-free and intend to stay that way. I am now living fairly comfortably on my own, am just months away from completely paying off my student loans (which were not discharged), and even have enough money for modest savings. Without the safety valve of bankruptcy, it's impossible to know where I would be right now.

It pains me to write this letter, as I have always been proud to call Governor Granholm my governor and Carl Levin and yourself my senators. But your actions regarding this bankruptcy bill offend me on a very personal level. If you had your way a few years earlier, I shudder to think what my living situation would be like today.

I sincerely hope whatever the credit card companies and financial institutions paid you for your soul was worth it to you. I have lost all respect for you and your office.

[Sugarbleus]

180. VERY Well Done!!!!!!!!! Dang that was a good one

Good on Ya!!

[knitter4democracy]

203. Ask her how she would've voted if her divorce had been

earlier in her political career. Her first husband supported her career financially by keeping everything going. If she'd had to go it alone before she was established, like when she was my state senator and not the senator from all of Michigan, there's a good chance she wouldn't have made it financially.

How could she turn her back on the state with the highest unemployment rate just because Ford Credit and GMAC asked her to?

[Sugarbleus]

178. Stabenow surprised me too!

I have liked her for her seemingly pro worker stance. Seemed like she had a better grip on the poverty issues that face her district.

How is this bankruptcy bill going to HELP any of that now????? Very disappointed.

[NorthSideCubsFan]

20. I trust no one is surprised at Biden and Carper

knowing how many credit card companies are headquartered in Delaware.

Remember that these folks are all politicians first, Democrats second. Most Repugs are the same way. Money talks, bullshit walks......

[Chicago Democrat]

21. They suck!

debtors beware!

[0007]

23. Elsicko's

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

24. Here after these Dems should be known as "FTP DEMS"

You have your DINOs...you have your pseudo-Dems...now, we have clear evidence of a new moniker...the Fuck The Poor Dems (aka. FTP Dems).

JB

[98geoduck]

30. file transfer protocal fits as well. Great acronym!

[Rose Siding]

29. "And any senator who votes for the bill should be ashamed. " -Krugman

This wasn't a vote on the actual bill, but dang it's hard to watch.

Warren Buffett recently made headlines by saying America is more likely to turn into a "sharecroppers' society" than an "ownership society." But I think the right term is a "debt peonage" society - after the system, prevalent in the post-Civil War South, in which debtors were forced to work for their creditors. The bankruptcy bill won't get us back to those bad old days all by itself, but it's a significant step in that direction.

And any senator who votes for the bill should be ashamed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/08/opinion/08krugman.html?hp


Wealthy Senators will never worry about bankruptcy.

Ka-ching go the campaign coffers.

[madmark]

116. This bill is big step in the direction of the "sharecropper society"

[earthside]

31. Th Bigger Problem

The problem is not a senator that occassionally votes for something that affects their state or their political situation, like Byrd or Kohl.

The Bigger Problem are the five or six "Democrats" that are consistently voting to empower the Bush Reich: Lieberman, Salazar, Nelson, Nelson, Landrieu and Pryor.

Lieberman should be the target ... Please, oh please ... let there be a primary challenger to 'Slow Joe' in Connecticut for the 2006 election.

[thebeaglehaslanded]

34. Add Feinstein to your list

Diane Feinstein (DINO - CA) must have been absent or we would expect to see her name on the list.

[BlueInRed]

40. Actually, Feinstein voted against cloture (with the Ds)

Click the link in the post, then the link in the article. It takes you to the full vote list, yea and nay.

[nolabels]

165. Wonder what's up with that, she usually votes with the Kool Aid Crowd

Whenever she gets a chance :shrug:

[Melynn]

72. Watch the Dino Six

They could be the key votes for the passage of Bush's Social Security Reform. If they do vote for Bush's gutting of Social Security then they deserve to be drummed out the Democratic party.

[me b zola]

99. If they vote to gut SS,

...Then they would deserve to be tarred & feathered before they are run out of the Democratic party.:nuke:

[Melynn]

101. If they vote to gut SS, I'm sure Howard Dean would show them the door

out of the party. I don't trust them. I think that they may roll on the SSR. It makes you wonder what Rove has on them?

[Joey Liberal]

32. Biden is a JERK, Lieberman is a Traitor

Biden and Lieberman may as well join the republican party. Can't these people ever be unified against the republicans?

[Stand and Fight]

113. No, of course they cannot....

They're complacent in all the crimes that these crooks are committing each and every day that passes.

[woodsprite]

117. I suggested to Carper he may want to switch parties

since he keeps riding the fence or voting with the Repubs.

[Joanne98]

35. Traitors! I hate Lieberman the most.

[Rex]

36. Democrats are your friends!

They believe in hard work and ethical standards...BAHAHAHA...just kidding. In truth they are greedy, rich bastards!!! Well the ones who care about making politics their bread and butter for life. How many would that be?

Okay, here's the deal...they laugh all the way to the bank same as Republicans!

[leesa]

37. Our Dem Senators are completely worthless

They are rich and they intend to stay that way at OUR expense

[deacon]

38. I'm a lifelong dem, but i just don't now how much longer i will be

It's to the point where our reps just don't represent us at all. The only dems with any guts left are dean, boxer and reid (reid so far).

[AwareOne]

46. Our experiment in democracy is a decided failure,

It's every man for himself!

[caledesi]

159. There is no more Democratic party, unless Dean can do something. nt

[shadowknows69]

39. Just stay on the side of the aisle

so we can figure out who our true allies are. I'm sick of getting sold out.

[confludemocrat]

41. Only freshman D on this list voting yes

Why does Ken Salazar's name continue to be attached to nearly every cave to the Bush agenda? Just asking.

[madfloridian]

45. Salazar is a good example of the party leadership choosing for us.

Mike Miles would have been a real fighter, I think. But the party would not hear of it.

Salazar won, but look how he votes?

We have the same problem in Florida.

[Cha]

70. I'll pipe in here to say..you

are so right about Mike Miles..glad you brought his name up, madflor..

:hi:

[xchrom]

44. they should never, ever have done this.

this is a crime.

how can dems make anything out of the party with a crew like this?
it doesn't stop.

maybe they will vote against the bill when it comes to the floor -- will that make difference to it's passage?
not if this presages the end result.

it's hard to believe that this party isn't in need of serious warning or event that shakes them to the soles of their boots.

[confludemocrat]

47. End debate on the bankruptcy bill so we can get on with the next retreat

from our supposed values and of those who made the party what it once was: a builder of the nation's slow steady progress toward real justice. Sleep well rich assholes and gutless wimps.

[deacon]

48. A pipe dream, but a solution would to back other dems that face these

dems in their primaries. Get these people out. Get other dems to challenge them, back them and get new dems in. we need to send a message.

[davidinalameda]

49. and people on here want Lincoln to run for president

gods, just goes to show how little difference there is between the Democrats and the Republicans

[suziedemocrat]

50. Bayh voted 'No' - is he moving Left before a 2008 run for Pres?

I've been paying more attention to Bayh's votes lately - and he votes along with my wishes a lot. I have only recently been watching him - but everyone says he is so far right. Either he is moving left or he was always more to the left than I was led to believe. If he's moving left - could it be to position himself for 2008?

edit typo in header.

[Tafiti]

151. You are correct.

I posted a link to an article about it yesterday in GD Politics.

Looks like he's going for it for sure.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1644282

[suziedemocrat]

190. Thanks!! n/t

[madmark]

51. Correct me if I am wrong but this is the end of the game. The chance

to filibuster was this vote that just came and went right?

[BlueInRed]

53. yep that's correct

[madmark]

56. Well I work in the area and we are already brainstorming ways to

deal with it. And we will probably figure out ways to make even more money off this mess. And the middle class will get fucked. Good job Senate. My only criticism is that now the MBNA Whores will have used up their raison d'etre to receive CC company influence payments. Maybe they can keep up their usefulness by working on legislation that will preempt any remaining state usury statutes.

[confludemocrat]

58. Economic populism is what Dems (used to) do, but chance thrown away here.

This was a no brainer actually as far as taking a stand in defense of the common people. WHY IS THAT SO DAMN HARD TO DO FOR THESE PEOPLE ON THIS LIST, many from poor or struggling states? I live in rural area where many will be harmed by this and know there would be no penalty (even to their overcautious frame of thought) to pay among these rural white poor folk, however conservative socially, for fighting it every step of the way, filibuster included.

[madmark]

63. Byrd and Pryor were surprising

I don't know. Did any of them read the bill? This legislation will be the most hurtful, of all the other hurtful things, that Congress and this President have done to the middle class. Did any of them explain their support?

[hezekkia]

80. ok

maybe someone can explain to me why this bill is such an affront to Democratic values? I agree it should close loopholes for the rich who abuse bankruptcy-- indeed, that would be my priority. Fix THAT before anything else.

but still--maybe i'm old-fashioned-- I just don't see the problem of making people repay money that's been lent to them (at least so long as they're able to). this doesn't seem like the high-treason that some of y'all are suggesting.

:shrug:

[confludemocrat]

83. There are a myriad of things wrong with the bill

that get at the heart of Democratic values,
but here are some brief lowlights:

go here
http://www.airamericaradio.com/weblogs/alfrankenshow/

and then to this section:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE DAILY "AL FRANKEN SHOW" AUDIO HIGHLIGHT


Al Franken chats with Harvard Law professor, Elizabeth Warren about what the cast and crew of the “The Al Franken Show” likes to call the “Moral Bankruptcy Bill”.  Listen here.

Posted by AudioGuy on 03/08 at 01:23 PM  •  Comments: (5) • Trackbacks: (0) • Permalink
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[uhhuh]

86. Ok, It's like this:

There is no protection given to people who have credit bills due to catastrophic medical emergencies, lose a job, or are otherwise situated.

Credit companies can demand that you sell any assests, including your primary residence, unless you meet a very stringent "means test" that is very prohibitive.

It discourages entreprenuership by not affording small business owners protection against losing everything if they try and fail in stating a home or small business with their own credit.
It allows credit companies to not state clearly what the maximum interest rate is for credit. It also allows them to raise the rate whenever they feel like it.

Forcing most people into Chapter 13 bankruptcy hurts everyone except the lenders.

Some who is required to put every spare dollar into debt repayment, rather that taking care of their families' needs, or using it to BUY stuff that supports the economy hurts everyone.
They will not be able to get a fresh start, or retrain or afford to go back to school to improve their situation because they will be required to spend ANY non-essential income on debt repayment.

The credit companies made record profits last year, and the rate of loss due to non payment has not gone up in 30 years.

It is the most lender friendly, anti consumer peice of crap that has ever been devised.

Does that help?

[confludemocrat]

89. Beautifully put

I am a hunt and peck typist and that would have taken me a half-hour to type up and get right. Thanks. And that it was that easy for you.

[uhhuh]

103. Thanks

I hunt and peck too, but I'm getting good at it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

97. AAAAAAAND

there is already provisions that denies bankruptcy to abusive credit holders, so this is just helping credit card companies predate even more on the helpless and unfortunate

[hezekkia]

112. can you show me some support for this:

>>Credit companies can demand that you sell any assests, including your primary residence


I haven't been able to find that anywhere. thanks.

[madmark]

114. I am unaware of homestead exemptions being impacted by the bill.

Though the forcing of ppl into 13's will reduce income available to service mortgages and lead to more defaults and foreclosures. Income will be reduced by Chapter 13 payments, or for those unable to start or complete thirteens due to prohibitive transaction costs, wage garnishment. Keep looking for the silver lining. The only ppl that will benefit from this will be smart aggressive lawyers like me and MBNA et al. Have a nice day.

[jbnow]

212. About losing homes...here you go

This diary lists many of the rejected amendedments...it is appalling, inexplicable. But as far as homes...

http://logan5.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/6/63144/06015

Continuing on, a very, very important amendment:

02-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 17
Feingold Amdt. No. 17.; To provide a homestead floor for the elderly.
REJECTED

This is a truly outrageous rejection. Allow us to explain as succinctly as we can:

Each and every Republican Senator, along with Jeffords (I) and Democrats Biden, Carper and Nelson, voted to reject a provision that would ensure that no elderly people in enough financial trouble to seek bankruptcy protection would lose their homes.

Here's how the debate went down, in a nutshell:

"In States such as Florida and Texas, there is a homestead exemption with an unlimited dollar value, meaning that any money invested in a home cannot be obtained by creditors. I should note, of course, that this creates other problems, which I will address in a few minutes. But other States allow a very limited value homestead exemption. In many States, the amount of equity a homeowner can protect in bankruptcy has lagged far behind the dramatic rise in home values in recent years. For example, in the State of Ohio, the homestead exemption is only $5,000, and in the Presiding Officer's State of North Carolina, the homestead exemption is $10,000. In this day and age, those paltry exemptions will do no good. We obviously have a problem, and it is hitting our older friends and family members the hardest.
Think about it: In these low homestead exemption States, even indigent elderly homeowners who own a home free and clear worth only $30,000 or $40,000 cannot file for chapter 7 bankruptcy without losing their home.

And they may not be able to file a chapter 13 case because they cannot afford to pay creditors the value of their home equity that is not exempt, as required by that chapter. Many elderly homeowners live solely on Social Security benefits, often no more than $800 to $1,000 per month. This is enough to subsist in their paid-off homes, while still paying taxes, utilities and other basic living expenses. But if they lose their homes, they will not be able to rent a decent place to live. Effectively, this means these older homeowners have no bankruptcy relief available to them at all. We have to address this gross inequity before we pass this bill. My amendment would create a uniform federal floor for homestead exemptions of $75,000, applicable only to bankruptcy debtors over the age of 62, protecting the lower- and middle-class senior citizens who need it most.
<snip>

After Feingold concluded his opening remarks, Orrin Hatch got up and blasted Feingold's amendment as an attempt to derail the entire bill and an infringement on the States' Rights regarding Homestead Exemptions (claiming the bill would be derailed because this infringement suggested in Feingold's amendment would cause numerous Senators from said States to vote against the Bill. As if any of those 55 Republican automatons would EVER vote against a bill if they were told to vote FOR it?)

Did you catch what just happened there? Orrin Hatch's problem with the amendment is that Feingold's amendment would have impacted on the "millionare homestead" laws in Florida and Texas, which allow estates of unlimited value to be kept by wealthy businessmen even if after declare bankruptcy. The laws have caused controversy in the past for the obvious reasons -- corporate officers responsible for criminal, fraudulent, or simply negligent behaviors by their companies (think WorldCom) can pump an unlimited amount of money into their own property, and that property then cannot be touched in bankruptcy proceedings


Here are some other rejected amendments noted in the article:
03-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 42
Schumer Amdt. No. 42; To limit the exemption for asset protection trusts.
REJECTED

What does that mean? Here's the translation: Sen. Schumer (D) wanted to limit the free ride given in this Republican-sponsored legislation to people who are rich enough to put their assets in a "protected trust".

Laws inspired by the Enron debacle may hold the officers of a corporation personally liable for the deceptive financial practices, and ensuing disasters, of their corporation. However -- luckily for prospective corporate criminals -- there are in the United States a handful of states, such as Utah, where you may stash your assets in a "protected trust" and render them untouchable by bankruptcy laws -- and you don't have to be a resident of those states to take advantage of those laws.

The Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005, while purporting to strengthen bankruptcy laws against abuse, specifically provides exemptions for those asset protection trusts. Schumer's Amendment 42 was an attempt to close that loophole.

03-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 49
Durbin Amdt. No. 49; To protect employees and retirees from corporate practices that deprive them of their earnings and retirement savings when a business files for bankruptcy.
REJECTED

03-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 38
Durbin Amdt. No. 38; To discourage predatory lending practices.
REJECTED

03-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 37
Nelson (FL) Amdt. No. 37; To exempt debtors from means testing if their financial problems were caused by identity theft.
REJECTED

03-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 31
Dayton Amdt. No. 31.; To limit the amount of interest that can be charged on any extension of credit to 30 percent.
REJECTED

02-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 32
Corzine Amdt. No. 32; To preserve existing bankruptcy protections for individuals experiencing economic distress as caregivers to ill or disabled family members.
REJECTED

02-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 28
Kennedy Amdt. No. 28.; To exempt debtors whose financial problems were caused by serious medical problems from means testing.
REJECTED

02-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 29
Kennedy Amdt. No. 29; To provide protection for medical debt homeowners.
REJECTED

02-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 15
Akaka Amdt. No. 15; To require enhanced disclosure to consumers regarding the consequences of making only minimum required payments in the repayment of credit card debt, and for other purposes.
REJECTED

01-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 16
Durbin Amdt. No. 16, As Modified.; To protect service members and veterans from means testing in bankruptcy, to disallow certain claims by lenders charging usurious interest rates to service members, and to allow service members to exempt property based on the law of the State of their premilitary residence.
REJECTED

[trapper914]

160. And Don't Forget

The bill protects lawbreakers' assets should they be fined e.g. violent abortion protestors.

[madmark]

109. If you really want to know why its an awful bill (from anyone's

perspective, democratic or republican) read the letter attached below I sent to Kennedy outlining the worst features. But now its about to become. And I am going to figure out how to make even more money on it than I am right now under current law. And when someone like you goes belly up, we are going to make more money on you. And MBNA et al is going to make more money on you. And you, and the rest of the middle class gets fucked. And America gets weaker. Good job Senate. Good job MBNA whores.

Letter Attachment:

Dear Senator Kennedy,

I apologize for being a non-constituent taking up your time but I wanted to be heard on the bankruptcy bill. I am concerned that my two republican senators maybe unresponsive and its my understanding that you have taken the lead opposing what is in my view awful legislation.

I work as a bankruptcy practitioner and below is a letter I sent my senators setting forth some of my substantive concerns about the bill. I am attaching it for any use you feel fit. The bill is bad enough, and its effects will be so sweeping, immediate, and dire for the middle class, that I believe this bill may merit a filibuster and I do not think I am overstating the matter. Please consider using this device to challenge the bill or at least to put some sunlight on it (the media has done almost nothing as to its negative consequences). Thank you for your consideration of this matter. The letter with the substantive points is as follows:

Dear Senator McCain,

I am one of your constituents and have practiced bankruptcy law for the past 12 years here in Phoenix. Before you vote to pass the bankruptcy bill could you please do two things: 1)Read this bill, and 2) Speak to at least one of Arizona's bankruptcy judges (preferably a republican one so that they have more credibility in your eyes) about the bill's merits. If you can still vote for the bill after you have read it and spoken to one of our judges then you have at least done the bare mininum diligence that this decision requires. I suspect though if you actually read the bill and speak to one of our judges about it (not necessarily in that order) you will be unable to vote for it because it is in effect an economic attack on the middle class and will render the bankruptcy courts dysfunctional. I know that may sound like hyperbole but I honestly do not think I am overstating the matter.

In my practice approximately 5% of the bankruptcy cases I see could be characterized as abusive or involving lack of personal responsibility. The balance are caused by the following in descending order: divorce, illness, injury, job layoffs, and entrepreneurial failure. Even Republican Senators during this debate have already described the bill as being "harsh" when applying it to members of the military. Just as the Senate does not think this harsh bill should apply to the military why would they want it to apply to the divorced, ill, injured, layed off and the entrepreneurs who fuel our economy, take the risks that have to be taken for growth to ever occur, and failed in this noble attempt.

I will preview two important provisions in the Bil. The Bill "means tests" the ability of people to file Chapter 7 liquidations and forces everyone except the lower middle class with one income (2 incomes will be too much), the impoverished, and the extremely wealthy to file a Chapter 13 wage earner plan bankruptcy instead of a Chapter 7 liquidation. The Bill also requires that debtor's lawyers assume liability for the accuracy of the Debtors' representations of their financial condition set forth in their bankruptcy schedules and statement of financial affairs. Chapter 13's administrative transaction costs are three to four times greater than Chapter 7's. Chapter 13's will require a monthly payment stream for 3 to 5 years whether or not there really is any disposable income from which this payment can be made. Chapter 13's do not provide a debt discharge until the conclusion of the 3 to 5 years and credit markets refuse access to these debtors prior to receipt of the discharge. In Chapter 7's the discharge order comes in approximately 4 to 5 months and credit markets (ie. car lenders) will deal with debtors (albeit at a higher rate) after the receipt of the discharge. Chapter 13's plan currently have a high failure rate (ie. most debtors default on their Chapter 13 plan payments and never get their discharge). No lawyers will represent Debtors with the new liability provisions. Without lawyers the already high Chapter 13 failure rate will skyrocket. The net effect is hundreds of thousands/millions of American middle class people (the divorced, ill, injured, layed off, and failed entrepreneurs) will no longer get discharges and no longer be able to function as productive members of the American economy. All this at time when we are likely looking at a coming housing bubble correction, interest rate spike (accelarated by government budget and trade deficts), and dollar sell off.

And for what? I understand that MBNA and other credit card issuers have contributed a great deal to Senators for the additional leverage on Debtors that this bill will give them but is that enough to vote for a bill that is harmful to the interests of the American economy and its middle class.

There are other bad things in the bill and if your office would to discuss them further feel free to correspond to arrange the same. Thank you for your time considering this matter.

[PassingFair]

156. Thank you so much, MadMark...

You have been very helpful to me in explaining what is going on to my friends at work and in general.
I truly appreciate your presence here in the underground.

[chomskysright]

174. amazing letter: thanks MadMark: I'm using the info

[Willy Lee]

154. A recent report showed that over 50% of all bankruptcies are from medical

disasters. You know, cancer, heart attacks, pesky little life threatening illnesses. With an alarming number of people losing medical insurance coupled with ever increasing medical costs, is it no wonder people cannot keep up with bills?

The % of people who file for bankruptcy because of reckless spending is actually quite small. And I think these folks should be made to pay back their bills.

Dems tried to attach an amendment that would exclude those who fell under the medical catastrophy segment of the population. That repubs feel good about themselves for making it impossible for average citizens to find reasonably priced medical coverage than bend them over the barrel when they can't pay for these medical costs is inexcusable.

[zoeybug]

191. some additional ugliness

Some other things that bother me about this bill:

Credit card companies have decided to lend money to people who are high risk & likely to be unable to pay back the money. Due to this higher risk, they charge these people higher interest rates, sometimes over 30%. If you suddenly become a high risk debtor (by paying late), they'll raise your rates then as well. The banks have already figured out how many people are likely to default on their loans, and set the rates and fees accordingly so that they can make a profit. The banks are making a risky investment, which they believe will pay off.

So - the credit card companies are willingly taking a risk. Sometimes risky investments don't pay off. It's a cost of doing that sort of business.

Also - they struck out the amendment to the bill that would have helped people in the military that have hardships due to being a called up to serve. I think that is disgusting.

[SoCalDem]

135. So will it become law in 180 days after * signs it??

What about a consititutional challenge?? The Mccain Feingold law was challenged and lost of it was gutted..

Is there any organization out there willing to challenge it in court??

Watch the suicide rate climb.. of course that will "help" on the SS "problem"..:puke:

[madmark]

139. I believe your are correct on the effective date. I don't think the bill

is unconstitutional, just unconscionable. I agree this will result in some suicides and that is sad.

[reprobate]

54. And who's surprised? Dem or repug, they're all the power structure.

The last two decades have seen the complete take over of our government by the corporate power structure. Politicians are part of that power structure. They beg for money from the corporations, so why are we surprised when they vote the way instructed by the CEOs?

We must remember that politicians now have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in common with you and me now. They all live within the beltway. They all attend the same parties, given by the same power elite. The fact that they may bear different party labels has no meaning anymore. The fact that they maintain local offices is only meaningful at campaign time when they use the advantages of office to crush any upstarts that challenge their power. They have BECOME the power elite.

I had hoped that Dean could do something to stem this tide as head of the DNC, but I think that hope is now gone. And most Americans don't give a shit, as long as they can keep up with the Jackson trial and watch the latest survivor. Well, it looks like that attitude is about to jump up and bite them in the ass. It's they that will be screwed by the bankruptcy bill and all the other pro-corporate policies now in vogue. And they don't yet even know it because they 'don't enjoy politics'.

It will be interesting to see their reaction to having to wear the chains of indentured servitude. Will they see their children starving and rise up and demand change? Or will they as usual be content with their bread and circuses and settle into their role of slavery? The latter, I think. Tho I should be delighted to be shown wrong.

[olddad56]

55. This bill should be made more simple....

You have to make six figures annually in order to be able to file bankruptcy. Everyone else goes to debtors prison. It's a no-brainer.

[madmark]

59. You hyperbolic suggestion is already reality in some states that

allow payday lenders. The lender solicits post-dated checks at funding and if there is a default a crime has been committed and the matter can be referred to the law enforcement and this threat is a routine part of debt collection now. Guess who funds the payday lenders, the major CC companies under different names. Guess what the only source of credit for people who are frozen out of discharge by the new bk law, payday lenders. Its the CC companies end game. And buy the way, and I know its obvious, payday lenders fees and rates as a matter of ordinary course usurious (22-30%). Have a nice day.

[dsc]

93. actually they can't criminally prosecute you

My sister works for one of those places and they actually aren't permitted to do that. They can, and will, sue you and garnish wages but they can't get you arrested.

[madmark]

118. I attended a meeting between a sheriff's officer and a debtor who informed

the debtor that if he didn't make the nsf check he would take action. You tell me what state law prevents the payday lender from making a criminal complaint on an nsf check? Threats of making the complaint maybe sanctioned by extortion laws but I am unaware of any bar to actually making the complaint. And I believe the collectors for payday lenders walk right up to extortion line in their collection practices and make if very clear to debtors what the potential criminal consequences are.

[bookman]

179. Not yet...

...watch for the Repugs next bill to establish debtor's prisons.

Sorry for the sarcastic outlook.

[stepnw1f]

57. Political Suicide

Shame. Canada is looking better everyday.

[coreystone]

60. Should I Assume The Accuracy of Democratic "yea's" is correct?

Is there a roll where the "no's" are recorded? I just want to make sure that all my guys voted that way.

:-)

[BlueInRed]

62. Click the link, then click the 2nd link

The original story has a link to the roll call vote. You can see how everyone voted.

[Sandpiper]

61. Is there a Republican cause that Ken Salazar hasn't voted for?

Sorry Colorado dems, but it looks like you've elected another Ben Nighthorse Campbell.

[kath]

134. Umm, you got Campbell's name wrong- it's Ben TURNCOAT Campbell

:-)

And yeah, Salazar is turning out to be a Major League DINO

[madmark]

64. I guess you just have to print off the list and never forget.

[heyphillip]

65. Dems voting with republicans

Why the fuck is Lieberman still in the demorcratic party.

[ckramer]

66. I suggest starting a DU party, its representatives will have to follow

DU's leading voice.

[paineinthearse]

69. That's the last straw

Biden talks the talk but votes rethug. He's on my shit list now.

[HuckleB]

73. This is a sad day.

This is an immoral bill.

[wellst0nev0ter]

98. Moral Bankruptcy Bill

Fuck it, what's the point of framing when we have 14 Pierre Lavalles on "our side"

[HuckleB]

186. No framing involved.

It is what it is.

[shance]

75. The question is WHY? Are these leaders owned by Credit card corporations?

We need to know. These leaders have consciously voted against Americans and voted in favor of fascism and further control by Corporations.

Why? They owe us an explanation.

[Emboldened Chimp]

81. You need to ask that?

Of course they're bought and paid for. Look into campaign contributions and I bet you'll find the same names with money from MBNA, Capital One, Visa, you name it.

[shance]

92. Then Americans need to know it. We read about this information here

but most Americans havent a clue.

THis needs to be brought to light.

[PassingFair]

108. DLC check, anyone?

brb....

ON EDIT: Of the 14 "dems" who greased the wheels for this travesty,
12 are DLC members.

The question is, what are we going to do about it?

[shance]

125. Are they currently active DLC members?

n/t

[PassingFair]

128. From what I could tell...

all but Biden and Byrd are active DLC.

[PassingFair]

129. Here's a link of currents in states and U.S. Congress

http://www.ndol.org/new_dem_dir_action.cfm?viewAll=1

Alphabetical, read 'em and weep.

[B Calm]

77. How many turncoats will vote for John Bolton?

[confludemocrat]

87. Oh I hate to think about that, but it raises a question...

Related to that, headlines presented on Google News very often seem to have some positive premise about him. Is their search algorithm programmed or rigged to dig out positive stories on rightwing killers like him?
What gives?
What is with Google News?

Also, to me, more than ever in the last three days, there are nothing but lauditory headlines for Bush thrown up by the Google News engine.

Is there an alternative as a continuously updated breaking news site? Its getting worse lately.

[Rockerdem]

78. Somewhere, Karl Rove is laughing his ass off

On too many bills, he doesnt have to lift a finger to get his crucial legislation passed. His political (so-called) "opponents" do the dirty work for him. Very, VERY disappointing.

[NVMojo]

110. and slapping his dashboard Jesus!!

this is pathetic! May they all hit rock bottom financially and suck ass trying to crawl back up.

[maxrandb]

150. They Are Not Only Traitors. They Are Fools!!!

Yes, KKKarl is laughing his ass off. Right now the Republican Party is rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of running candidates against these 14 Democrats in the Senate.

Think about it. It's set up perfectly. These 14 will lose thousands, if not more, votes from Democrats, and low and behold we'll have 14 new Republican Senators. Hello super Republican majority. Hello Supreme Court Justice Jerry Falwell and Attorney General Pat Robertson. GOODBYE AMERICA!!!

I'd give my left nut for a real opposition party right now.

These Dems have symbolically fucked themselves in the ass without a condom, or a "reach-around".

They've symbolically cut off their nuts and given them to the Republicans to hang on the rear-view mirror.

They've made a deal with the devil, and they expect the devil to play fair the next time their up for reelection.

I'm no Pat Buchanan fan, but it is time for pitch-forks and torches.

[Blue to the bone]

79. Perhaps Byrd was sleeping when he voted....n/t

[peacetalksforall]

84. If anyone here starts talking about Biden as a candidate I'm going to

blow a fuse. He 'talk pretty' on corporate TV, but he's no Dem, He and the others deserve the Zell Miller DU Traitor Award of the Day.

If Byrd is going to vote against the bill, but he votes yes now - it must mean that he isn't up to the filibuster, because they seem to let him do most of it. since Wellstone is gone.

If Wellstone were alive, he would have the filibuster all organized with a timetable for speakers and he would be there organizing it all with Byrd and beating the drum.

I hope we learn that Byrd has a tactic in mind.

[gulfcoastliberal]

88. The dems are no different thn the repukes...

Shit like this happens all the time. Behold the proof of their corporate allegiance and fealty to the almighty dollar. We have no representation.

[FlemingsGhost]

90. C'mon DLC apologists, tell us to shut up and trust the Party more.

Spin, spin, spin.

[PassingFair]

119. Not holding my breath....

there are about 5 posters conspicuously missing from this thread. Maybe they're too busy Dean bashing to come and try to patch thing us. Maybe they're hoping this thread just dies...
like every other populist outcry...
Time to flush.

[bushcrab]

91. Lieberman's got a messy brown ring around his chops

and it ain't chocolate.

Is there a shit list posted somewhere that ranks these betrayful effers by how they've voted in the past? Shame on these maggots.

[Skip Intro]

94. It doesn't make sense

Its pretty clear we need a thrid party.

Or THEY need to leave, and have a thrid party.

It just doesn't make sense. Why would Byrd support this? Couldn't Byrd be persuaded to vote with the party that opposes bush, and his attacks on the poor and elderly?

[belab13]

96. Lieberman's still a democrat?

[BlueInRed]

100. I think what bugs me the most is many of these will ultimately

vote against the final bankruptcy bill and when people go to check their voting records, it will only say they voted against the final bill. This kind of procedural dance has been going on for a long time under the radar, with no one but people like us paying any attention. I'm sure places like Project Vote Smart will only record the final vote when saying where these people stand on the issues.

I wish the Democrats would stand firm on the procedural hurdles and amendments, not just the final vote that goes on the record. All the steps matter, not just the final vote.

[Deja Q]

102. How many repubs voted NAY?

Seems more important to me right now.

Only for curiosity sake; they're worth keeping an eye on - maybe they'll become Dem.

[kath]

136. NO Repugs voted NAY.

How come the so-called Dems NEVER stick together as a party the way the Repugs do?

Spineless bastards or bought-and-paid-for corporate whores?? And which is worse?

[Chicago Democrat]

105. A TRAJIC DAY! THE END OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?

I fear..

[depakid]

130. They lost me almost 10 years ago

salvage rider (logging without laws) strike 1

welfare deform (boy, that's turned out dandy) strike 2

telecommunications bill (remember when there used to be good radio?) strike 3.

When Bill signed that one, I marched right down to the post office and registered Pacific Green.

And I remain convinced that until a substantial number of people do the same- or at the very least re-register independent, the Republicrats in the party will continue to have free reign to hoist corrupt, far right policies on the nation.

[Don1]

106. And yet

there are some here who blindly fund the Democratic party.

Next time there is a fundraising drive here, can we add a condition to our group donations that they cannot go to support any conservative candidates?? Can we name names in the condition?

If we cannot do this, then we could be funding the conservative corporate cronies like Joementum and the radical religious rightists like Zell Miller.

[Robbien]

120. Those of us who have little faith in the DNC as a whole

do not join in the DU pleas for donations to the DNC. We give to individual candidates and local politicians. Those threads asking DUers to give should have disclosures in them warning that the donations could support these lobbyist puppet congressmen.

[Don1]

149. I suspect

that the majority is in that crowd who does not blindly support the DNC. Last donation round, for example, there were 1000+ donations. There are 65,000 registered users here. Sure, half are trolls or inactive, but do the math with the remainder. It means that only 3% of DUers donated last round.

So let's do something stronger than just adding a caveat to the donation request. Let's poll people on DU about who they want to donate to or give them other significant choices. Let's start formulating a plan to organize the tens of thousands of people here who don't like the Liebermans and the Zell Millers. Let's pull the donation rug out from underneath the Democratic party, so that it actually reflects its constituents' progressive views.

[xxqqqzme]

107. well, happy 2 see Feinstein

changed her mind. It only took about a million phone calls 2 get her 2 act like a dem.

Why the f*ck do we vote 4 these people if we have 2 hound them to pay attention 2 Democratic principles?

[bullimiami]

122. biden I find slimey.

byrd, conrad, and stabenow I am surprised by.

lieberman sucks ass.

i despise nelson (fl) thats my useless dino.

[BillMoyer]

123. Maybe this might be an excuse to send out some Spineless Citations

Maybe this might be an excuse to send out some Spineless Citations.
For now you have to print them out yourself. We are looking for someone to write an application to do an on-line version. Please check this tool out and tell me how we can improve it.

http://backbonecampaign.org/page.cfm?id=64

Best,
Bill Moyer
Backbone Campaign

[unkachuck]

126. this is disgusting....

....how much more of this am I supposed to take? Who in the Party decides whether a member is a member-in-good-standing or not, and where the hell are they? These people are Republicans....if you're voting like a Republican, then you're a Republican....what hell else would I need you for, except for your vote....

....these people need to be out of the Democratic Party, or I do....

[hatrack]

127. So, we all know what to do when the next credit card offer arrives?

That's right, you head to the nearest lawn & garden shop, purchase a brick, wrap it in brown paper, tape the business reply envelope to MBNA/Citibank/Wachovia/Whoever and drop it in the nearest mailbox.

Simple, effectively expensive on a per-piece basis and truly satisfying.

[98geoduck]

132. Would it work on a sack of manure? Gardening season is coming..

[98geoduck]

137. The "Leave No Bank Behind" Bill. Puppet strings for all!

[Zorra]

140. I am going Green. That's it for me. Fuck these republican plants.

[B Calm]

141. Why bother to vote at all? Hell the elections are rigged and the

dems are doing nothing about it..

[Tesla]

143. I thought Dean would be making noise

"Oh John-John why did you have to leave us"???

We need a Dem Savior!!!!!!

I'm afraid that even here the phrase "Your either with us or against us"
is enough to send the weak shivering.

Damn, I guess those 2 Wars my daddy fought were for naught. I'm glad he isn't here to see this.

[Massachusetts]

144. A Strong and Viable THIRD PARTY FOR THE PEOPLE

AND BY THE PEOPLE is LONG overdue.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

145. Byrd puzzles the heck out of me by being on this list.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

146. Someone tell me if there are any retroactive time limits on this bill...

...once Herr Busch signs it into law. If there are, I need to move quickly.

Additionally, how soon after Herr Busch signs this abomination does it become law?

[IronLionZion]

152. Republicans voting with us: Chafee, Snowe, Collins, Specter

heard this on Unfiltered show on AAR

[flvegan]

155. I just e-mailed Bill Nelson (FL)

I hope he gets a flood of e-mails from pissed-off folks, just like me.

Asshole.

[DiverDave]

161. My letter to Carper

Sen. Carper,

I am VERY disappointed on your vote for the bankruptcy bill.
Are you aware that almost 1\2 of the bankruptcy's are because of health catastrophes?
And why would you not fight for people to save their homes?
I voted for you, because I cannot stomach what these neocon republicans are doing to my country.
However, you seem to be not that much better.
Tell me, how much pressure did MBNA put on you for this sickening example of "Democratic" values.
What next? Debtors prison?
How about telling MBNA and their ilk to NOT GIVE CREDIT to borderline people?
Oh, I forgot, there is no profit in that.
I, and many others, will not forget this blatant DINO vote.
If I wanted a republican to represent me, I would have VOTED for one.

Sign me
Disgusted.

[BlueInRed]

162. ****** PLEASE HELP Stop the House Quislings now *******

There's another thread with a BUNCH of Dems in the House who will support the bill. They should all be bombarded now with emails, calls, etc.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3242118

Rep. Ellen O. Tauscher
Rep. Adam Smith
Rep. Ron Kind
Rep. Artur Davis
Rep. Carolyn McCarthy
Rep. John Larson
Rep. Stephanie Herseth
Rep. Dennis Moore
Rep. Mike McIntyre
Rep. Joe Crowley
Rep. Jay Israel
Rep. David Wu
Rep. Diane Hooley
Rep. Melissa Bean
Rep. Jim Davis
Rep. Harold E. Ford, Jr.
Rep. Ed Case
Rep. Jay Inslee
Rep. Shelley Berkeley
Rep. Gregory W. Meeks

[madmark]

181. Isn't the deed done? Once the senate votes for cloture the ability to

attempt a filibuster is lost right? Its my understanding that the House does not have a similar filibuster mechanism. Now its subject to simple majority which the democrats can't stop if even the quislings turned around. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[BlueInRed]

185. yes, but a few

Republicans may join us on the final Senate vote (4 I believe) and it is always possible (even if very unlikely) that we will have enough House Republican defectors IF the House Democrats stick together. At a minimum, a show of unity would help us run against moderate Republicans in 2006.

I think the final Senate vote will be very unified, with maybe 4-6 Democratic defectors, rather than 14. I'd like to see a similarly unified House Democratic vote, which might scare the moderate House Republicans into defecting for fear of being defeated in 06.

[madmark]

193. I have to say that those 14 that then vote against the bill are in

some ways more sickening than those that vote for it because you know that they will then say years later at election time,"I voted against the bk bill" when in fact they insured its passage with this procedural vote and their Master, MBNA et al, will appreciate the subtlety.

[BlueInRed]

196. I totally agree

and unfortunately, since I started paying attention 4 years ago, I've seen it happen many times on important bills. Most people don't keep track of the procedural stuff and have no idea the person scuttled the bill, then made a token vote against it in the end.

I'm glad some websites have now started keeping track of this stuff.

[Hamsta1]

163. Even Jeffords voted "Nay"

[jus_the_facts]

170. Mary....Mary.....yet again quite contrary......

....hide and watch as the constituents you don't represent anymore...refuse to vote for your DINO ass for four more... :puke:

She's LOST all credibility as a Democrat and won't get my vote ever again. :nopity:

[chomskysright]

171. I'm surprised to see Byrdie's name (D-WV)..

[eek]

173. Is it *possible* that they voted to end debate so

as not to waste any more time on it, nor to give the bill any more joementum?

And are still planning to vote *against" it?

I'm just wondering, and am quite bad at this strategery stuff.

[eek]

175. Oh yeah: Biden

some of you probably saw the broad hints that gannon-guckert has something on Biden.

I think it was over at Kos.

Ganno said something on-air to the effect that, after watching Biden on Bill maher's show, he was *very surprised* that Biden hadn't mentioned that they knew each other some years back.

[redqueen]

176. And due to current election laws, voters have a choice...

Keep these traitors or allow an even worse whore for corporations to take over for them.

We need to end corporate donations to campaigns, end corporate-sponsored junkets, and implement representational voting... NOW!

[eagler]

187. when we decide to pull together they will too.

nt

[Blue to the bone]

195. Hey Senators! Your pre-approved retirement is in the......

.....mail!!

[saskatoon]

197. How can thet justify this

Lieberman? well that traitor was a given but I am devastated by some of these people. What in hell motivates them. I am so disgusted!

[zanana]

198. I'm so disappointed in Robert Byrd

He was my favorite senator. How can we ever get Democrats elected if they won't offer a real alternative to Bush and his cronies?

[Philosophy]

199. Kennedy is still talking about this bill live on C-SPAN right now

If the debate has ended, what's he up to?

[WillyT]

200. Assholes All !!!

:puke:

[lumpy]

204. They haven't voted on the bill yet

have they ? Sorry, haven't been keeping up on this stuff.

[BlueInRed]

205. No, the final vote is apparently tomorrow. This was to stop any

further debate and amendments. It sacrificed the right to filibuster, among other things. I imagine many who voted with the Rs on cloture will switch sides on the final vote.

[lumpy]

216. Well then, it ain't over til' it's over.

x

[BlueInRed]

217. I think this was the last opportunity to stop it

with less than a majority. So really, it's almost a technicality. I don't believe we have the votes because 6 or so Dems are committed to voting for the final bill.

[rpannier]

206. Someone explain to me how Salazar is a step up from Campbell.

It seems to me that on crucial votes Salazar votes the same way that former Senator Campbell would have voted. So...how is this guy any better?
I'm sorry...I don't think that just because you have a "D" after your name that means squat. I'll still take Snowe-R Maine, over Biden, Liebermann and Salazar any day.

[madmark]

209. I'm kicking this so these 14 MBNA Whores can further enjoy their

moment in the DU sunshine.

[progressivebydesign]

219. I'm assuming MBNA was a big donor for these DINOs?? n/t

[Skittles]

211. Byrd?

WTF? I am DISGUSTED.

[pberq]

213. Sen. Durbin - this bill is a gift to the crdit card industry

Senator Durbin just spoke (C-Span2). Paraphrase: "The Senate is giving a great gift to the credit card industry. Instead of addressing the underlying causes of bankruptcy, the Senate is going to punish the victims."

[delilah]

214. Are any of these idiots

from states that allow recall elections? I'm relieved to see that neither of my senators are on that list, but if they were, you can bet I'd be talking about a petetion right about now.

Obscene, thats what this bill is. I cannot believe its even under discussion, let alone being voted for by dems.

STOP THE PLANET, I WANT OFF!!!

[Spinoza]

215. Byrd--

What can you expect from a racist ex-klaner. Lieberman--big fucking surprise.

[progressivebydesign]

218. Screw those 14 moneygrubbers....

Biden (D-DE), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea

If your Senator is amongst them, be sure to work hard to oust their greedy, faux-republican, asses in the next election. I'm HAPPY to say my Senators are NOT amongst them. Wonder how much CREDIT CARD COMPANIES ARE PAYING SENATORS THESE DAYS????????????????? They're rich, and their isolated from reality. They have their lives totally paid for.. forever.. just for serving a few years. Must be nice. Assholes.

[DrCorday]

223. WOOT! DEM my Ladiez!!

YAY for Washington state! Cantwell and Murray stayed on the blue side! Shall be writing letters to thank them.

Sorry about Stabenow. Biden lost my interest in a possible Presidential bid. And Salazar? Aw, how could you?

We need to quit doing this. A 55-45 is hard enough. Now we go and make it like 75-25? Agh.

[paineinthearse]

224. Forwarded to DNC

I've forwarded this to a member of DNC, who lives a couple towns over, with a preamble explaining our frustration at these DINO's.