Italy demands justice from U.S. over Iraq death

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L08618213.htm

ROME, March 8 (Reuters) - Italy's foreign minister rejected on Tuesday a U.S. account of how its forces killed an Italian intelligence agent in Iraq and urged Washington to punish any soldiers found guilty of wrongdoing in the shooting.

"It is our duty to demand truth and justice," Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini told parliament.

Agent Nicola Calipari has been hailed as a hero in Italy after he died shielding a newly freed hostage from U.S. gunfire as they drove to Baghdad airport last Friday.

The killing has strained ties between the United States and Italy, which has been one of President George W. Bush's staunchest allies in Europe over the war in Iraq.

more

[HockeyMom]

1. The Coalition of the DWINDLING

[fertilizeonarbusto]

2. LOL

HockeyMom , you win the Wisecrack of the Day Award! Take a bow!
*APPLAUSE*

[Pooka Fey]

3. Has the U.S. military produced the car yet??? n/t

[allthatjazz]

6. the italians have it

http://www.repubblica.it/index.html

[Ms. Clio]

9. That's a terrible photo

Hardly shows much of the car at all.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. it does not show a car

that has been hit by 300-400 shots. Hard to tell from the picture and I don't read Italian, but I think the blue circle is around a bullet hole that is on the driver's side of an otherwise intact windshield. The victims were in the rear passenger seat, I think. So the picture appears to show a single shot's bullet hole from the front right side of the road across the windshield into the rear passenger seat on the car's right side.

Wouldn't automatic weapons fire leave the car riddled with bullets, and the windshield destroyed? Isn't that exactly what a checkpoint would have, a machine gun capable of stopping just about anything and a bunch of assault rifles? Wouldn't the checkpoint fire be from straight on rather than across?

Wouldn't an intact windshield indicate a high velocity rifle, like a hunting rifle or a sniper rifle? Wouldn't a sniper be positioned to shoot from the front and side of the approaching vehicle?

I am no expert, but I sure have a lot of questions.

I think the victims must have been in the rear seat as the report is that the Italian agent fell over the journalist to protect her. Wouldn't he have had to be in the rear seat to do that?

[Don1]

23. Photo Gallery on Car

Some wanted to know more about the car. There actually is a photo gallery at the site that someone else listed. I snipped the link from the javascripted pop-up. Here it is:
http://www.repubblica.it/2003/e/gallerie/cronaca/autosgrena/2.html

There are 6 pictures in all. You're right. It doesn't look like 300 to 400 rounds. On the other hand, is it really the car? Could the rounds all have been on the other side of the car? Or could they all have gone through the broken side window(s)?

I also have many questions. Waiting for some answers and not holding my breath.

[reality based]

27. These pictures show the left side of the car.

The Italian Foreign Minister said that a strong light came from the right side of the road and that firing of several automatic weapons occurred for 10 to 15 seconds. He apparently did not say that 300-400 rounds struck the car. http://www.liberation.com/page.php?Article=280864

[IndianaGreen]

29. That's not the car that Nicola Calipari and Giuliana Sgrena were riding

An Astute DUer spotted that car as the one belonging to an Iraqi. The car had front end damage and had been shot by Sgrena's kidnappers when she was kidnapped. That is clearly the same car! Rightwing bloggers have been passing around that picture as Calipari's car in order to discredit the Italians.

[Ms. Clio]

24. Yes, those are all good questions

This car looks like it barely has a scratch on it, not even the "10 or 20 bullets" supposedly fired into the engine block. Have you seen this thread? There's a link to more of these very bad photos there, and the car looks almost completely untouched in all of them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3239906

Yesterday somebody posted a picture of a checkpoint incident that killed 2 Iraqis, and the front windshield was riddled with bullet holes.

Something doesn't add up here.

[cliss]

25. You and me both, Clio.

Why do I not trust the US in this matter? Why am I completely suspicious of them?

Could it possibly be because the car was in U.S. custody since Friday? Today is Tuesday.

In 5 days, couldn't the US replace the windshield, and re-shoot a hole in it, and patch up whatever holes there were from the shooting?

Color me.....not believing the story.

They think they are so smart, but they're really Keystone Cops....thank God.

[Ms. Clio]

26. After everything, all the lies, the propaganda, the ruthlessness

of killing and torturing well over 100,000 completely innocent people, how does anybody trust the U.S. in this matter? It simply baffles me--I am reminded of a trial, and how impeaching a witness in one part of his testimony quite legitimately casts doubt on the whole.

I hadn't thought of that, but of course you're right that the car could easily have been patched up and made presentable in 5 days.

What is so bizarre is that it doesn't even begin to match up with the Pentagon's own version of bullets fired at the engine block, etc. And how did everyone in the car get hit by gunfire when the car doesn't appear to have experienced any?

Unfortunately, I think that since Berlusconi is such a great Bush supporter, that it is very unlikely the Italians will ever get to the real truth, either.

[pinniped]

4. Don't bother looking cause you're not going to find it.

.

[ElectroPrincess]

5. There's already been an "initial" investigation by the overseeing

General. And guess what? NOBODY'S at fault. Accident. :(

I wonder if the Italians who are FAR more knowledgeable per capita will stay quiet about their involvement with the Iraqi Occupation much longer?

[Pooka Fey]

7. Welcome to the One-World Government.

[durablend]

8. Guess Italy is next on *'s invasion list...

God help them...

[gordianot]

10. Justice, whats that?

Next you'll hear some comment about wild Italian drivers.

[clem_c_rock]

11. Let's look at the real reason she was shot at:

She was exposing many of the US tactics in Falluja.


When she was taken captive, she was on her way to interview refugees from Falluja:
http://www.pej.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=New...

Here's some of the stories she was writing:

http://www.ilmanifesto.it/pag/sgrena/en/420dc3a05e58d.h...
http://www.ilmanifesto.it/pag/sgrena/en/420dd721e0ff0.h...

Her accounts
http://www.ilmanifesto.it/pag/sgrena/en /

Let's face it. US troops are using Napalm in Iraq, they use DU, they bombed hospitals intentionally so the casualties don't get reported:
http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&it...

The use of, not only napalm but, chemical weapons in Falluja is starting to bubble up and given all the above, the chances of that being true are massive.

Also, let's look at the story the French reporter was working on.
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=58&story_id=17494&name=Liberation's%20Aubenas%2C%20no%20stranger%20to%20trouble%20spots

<snippit>
On her latest assignment to Iraq, Aubenas was reporting on the fate of Iraqis driven out of their homes after the American assault on the city of Fallujah.

Aubenas has written several books, including "Letter to an Iraqi friend" and "Two Eyes Too Many" about the genocide in Rwanda.
</snippit>

[mom cat]

14. Problems with your links. The first and fifth links have errors. The

second, third and fourth links all lead to the same article. But thanks for that article...it is quite good, as is the sixth.

[Trish1168]

12. Why do so many countries support W

When their people DON'T!

They can't expect justice from W. What they should do is to no longer support our occupation of Iraq.

It would be nice if one of these countries would have a populist leader who cares about what the people think.

[NYC]

30. Spain. Zapatero.

Zapatero cared about what the people wanted.

[Mandate My Ass]

13. Well they can demand all they want, Little Boots Bush answers

to no one, especially not them furriners.

[bemildred]

15. Rome points to disparities with US probe of Iraq shooting

Additional bits:

However, Fini said the car was traveling at "not more than 40 kilometres an hour (25 mph) and its interior was lit up to facilitate checks and allow people to make phone calls."

"Calipari phoned (Italy's intelligence minister Gianni) Letta and (military intelligence chief Nicolo) Pollari to tell them of the journalist's release and to the American authorities to inform them he would soon be entering the airport," said Fini.

In the darkness, they were stopped by a strong light shone on their car from the side of the road, Fini said, adding that the shooting began immediately the vehicle had halted.

---

"The volley of shots, which included tracer bullets, came from several automatic weapons and lasted 10-15 seconds," he said.

INQ7

[98geoduck]

16. There is no justice left in the U.S. justice system. Sorry Italy.

[jazzjunkysue]

17. can somebody please explain why they shot up a car that they

"thought" was a car bomb? Does that make any sense? Don't you just blow out the tires so it stops and tell everyone to get down on the ground? Why shoot at a car that's going to blow up any second? Why make it blow up if you don't have to? Did they even try to hit the tires? How do you hit anyone inside if you're shooting at the tires? If it's full of insurgents, don't you try to take them alive so you can go after their cell? Nothing about this makes any sense.

[NYC]

31. Bullet hole in tire?

Look at picture number 4 (6 pictures in series). It appears to show a bullet hole in a tire.

http://www.repubblica.it

Slightly above and to the left of the paragraph which shows a picture of Bush, click on the last line of the paragraph: "Immagini l'auto colpita dai soldati USA"

A new window will open that will show a series of 6 pictures. Look at picture 4 of 6 for the tire photo.

[bpilgrim]

18. It was JUST an ACCIDENT, bet

according to the DU orthodoxy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3239362&mesg_id=3239362

peace

[coreystone]

19. Yes, I was reading that thread earlier..... the author seemed to be..

quite confused.

:-)

[IndianaGreen]

22. Some people automatically believe what the military says

I guess they are fearful that if they were to hold the military accountable for their crimes in Iraq, that somehow we would lose votes. Votes! Most Germans supported the Nazis, but the moral position was to oppose the Nazis.

[bpilgrim]

28. i am surprised to see it coming from folks who i hold in great esteem

especially here on DU.

:hi:

peace

[IndianaGreen]

20. Looks like the original Pentagon story is no longer "operational"

and it also looks like Sgrena's version of events was right on target.