Syria Announcement 'Not Enough' -U.S. State Dept

[Up2Late]

(It's like Deja Vu all over again!)

Sat Mar 5, 2005 03:59 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States said on Saturday that Syria's plan to gradually withdraw from Lebanon fell short and urged that Syrian remove all of its troops from the country.

While announcing a partial withdrawal, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad said that did mean his country would end its role in Lebanon.

"We mean complete withdrawal -- no half-hearted measures," said Darla Jordan, spokeswoman for the State Department.

U.S. officials have said Washington and European allies are considering "next steps" if Syria fails to pull out, including diplomatic and economic sanctions and a tougher U.N. resolution.

"President Assad's announcement is not enough," Jordan said. "The international community has made clear that Syria must withdraw completely and immediately all its military forces and intelligence services from Lebanon in accordance with UNSCR 1559."

A Sept. 2, 2004 resolution by the United Nation Security called on all remaining "foreign forces" to withdraw from Lebanon.

Jordan said the world would hold the governments of Lebanon and Syria accountable "for any intimidation, confrontation or violence directed against the people of Lebanon."

© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.
<http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=7816620&src=rss/worldNews>

[IndianaGreen]

1. Now that we know Bush intends to bomb Syria

nothing that Syria does or says will satisfy the American Hitler.

Fuck Bush and may he rot in Hell!

[Up2Late]

2. I Agree, but...

I prefer to wish that his flesh be torn from body by thousands of tiny deamons AS he burns in Hell

[IndianaGreen]

3. No, Bush will sit at the right hand of his father, Lucifer

He is the most evil man the world has seen since Hitler.

[Up2Late]

5. Would that make him the Anti-Christ, or is that something Different?

I sometimes wonder if he REALLY knows, how truly EVIL he is.

[IndianaGreen]

6. I don't think that the author of the Book of Revelation

could have conceived of an evil character like Bush even after eating the mushrooms that caused the psychedelic trip that he described in Revelation.

[PresidentErnestTBass]

68. Don't they get it? He's TRYING to cause the Rapture!!!

Won't be able to say enough that Bush _intentionaly_ is looking to destroy Damascus for his fundamentalist Christian buddies so that the rapture can take place. Destruction of Damascus is the only prophecy left before the rapture supposely happens, and Bush doesn't want to be "one-upped" by any other president that may come. He believes God has put his finger on the nuke button aimed at Syria. Iraq and Iran are nothing compared to Syria to these kooks.

[cliss]

7. No. I'm willing to be he says he's doing this for all of us.

At SOME point, they must have reviewed their motivations in their endless meetings on how to dominate the Middle East.

Someone pipes up from one corner of the table, "We're trying to protect the Americans". "That's right", says another oil executive. "We want to preserve the American way of life", says a Unocal Vice-President.

"They should only know how hard we work for them", says a Standard Oil executive.

Bush sits and listens. "We're doing this for democracy", he says, as he slams his fist in the table. "For the Americans". "They should be grateful, that's what".
-------------------
*small note: MANY oil companies are not even registered US companies. They are actually foreign companies. However, we're all sharing in the pirate loot, so to speak.

[tx_dem41]

9. It might not be popular, but I prefer that Syria withdraw its

...troops from Lebanon and respect that nation's sovereignty. I would hope that would be the prevailing attitude on DU.

As the tired cliche goes, a stopped watch can be right twice a day. Now, its up to us to make sure that the probable ulterior motives of * are kept in check.

[liberalpragmatist]

15. No I agree - Syria SHOULD get out

I think Kerry would be acting the same way right now and so would any US president. And I'd agree with them. I'm actually with Bush on this - at least with his stated intentions. Clearly we have to watch him with suspicion and make sure this doesn't accelerate into a war. But we should support Syria pulling troops out and support the Lebanese opposition.

[MGKrebs]

16. I agree.

The problem is, what will replace the Syrians? Is Lebanon really ready for self government? These transitions can be ugly if not handled thoughtfully, which one can guarantee is NOT being done if George W. Bush is involved.

[tx_dem41]

17. Its a Catch-22, but the main reason Lebanon would not be ready..

for self-government is because of the Syrian occupation.

[bpilgrim]

19. i should hope that we got out of iraq and stoped starting fights in the ME

that's probably the "prevailing attitude on DU" :hi:

peace

[tx_dem41]

20. Syria started this. The UN is the one that crafted a resolution demanding

they get out. This is actually one where its a unified world front. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

[bpilgrim]

23. the UN crafted a LOT of resolutions AND our war monger in chief is NOT

in a position to be calling on others to end their tiny occupation while we got one 10x the size next door.

we are NOT the worlds fucking police, I'm surprised you didn't know that.

:hi:

peace

[tx_dem41]

30. No we aren't (I remember Bush saying that too).

But, the UN is set up to be the world's police. Your trivialization of the Syrian occupation of the Lebanese is disturbing. Do you really believe in a Fortress America? We tried that once...didn't work.

[bpilgrim]

41. our WAR MONGER in chief is setting the world on fire

celebrate if you wish but don't think M$MW tactics are gonna work on DU.

"Do you really believe in a Fortress America"

we are living in it, hello...

peace

[tx_dem41]

52. Ah....I see the problem. You don't understand the historical reference...

to "Fortress America". It actually means the exact opposite to what you said in your post. It's a concept that originated between WWI and WWII, espoused by the Republican's of the day, where we would withdraw into our borders. WWII showed it for the awful policy that it was. Clinton definitely rejected it. Bush before the first election campaigned on bringing it back (using your quote about "not being the world's policemen"...exact quote actually). Oddly enough, so are several on this thread. Strange bedfellows and reversals Bush has caused in many.

[procinderella]

60. Bush will keep bombing and invading

BushCo will not stop with Syra. BushCo will not stop with Iran. BushCo will keep on invading until somebody stops the madness.

The last four years have shown us one thing -- And one thing only: BushCo intends to make the entire world cower in fear before a rolling war machine the likes of which has yet to ever be seen. The hundred years war is underway. (Bush's very own words...do your research...do you remember when he said that...it is on video tape..)

City after city falls week after week. (That Italian reporter wrote about the truths she saw in Fallujah. Thousands killed, tens of thousands lost their livelihood, more homeless.)

Do we have any sympathy for persons of another culture at all? An ancient and once revered one? Are they ALL insurgents and terrorists?

The entire Middle East is up for grabs. Just as BushCo wants it.

I feel a draft. And I'm making emergency plans for my 17 year old nephew.

[bilgewaterbill]

59. Maybe if Syria leaves Lebanon

our troops will be brought home quicker.

[uppityperson]

4. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

"Jordan said the world would hold the governments of Lebanon and Syria accountable "for any intimidation, confrontation or violence directed against the people of Lebanon.""

I can't help myself, you made me do it? Personally I'd hold Mr.bush accountable, but that's just a rich librul with low moral values talking.

[PurityOfEssence]

8. We're gonna fuck you. We'll get you to debase yourself with concessions

and outright surrenders, and force you to withdraw, recant, disengage, and everything else, and then when you've weakened yourself and are prostrate on the floor, we're gonna rip you to shreds and take your country while blaming it all on you.

Never give an inch to these people--"these people" being the Bushies--they do not compromise. They do not coexist. They want to have everything and crush all annoyances. It's not just to forestall any future dissent, it's FUN. The world must be made slaves, and Israel must be secured at all costs.

These are incredibly petty people, and they want to win things that don't even benefit them; the point is WINNING.

[tx_dem41]

10. That said (about ulterior motives), don't think that Syria's intentions...

in Lebanon are anything but dishonorable, opportunisitc, and contributory to the continued instability in that sovereign nation.

[xxqqqzme]

11. that said.....

the natural regression is that the US eveb more dishonorable, opportunistic and contributory 2 the instability of the middle east because the US has encouraged, bankrolled and propped up the current mess in the ME.

[tx_dem41]

12. So because of that, you think Syria should stay in Lebanon?

I know you haven't said that, so consider it a question. Is stability in the ME an important goal for you?

[bpilgrim]

26. i think our war monger in chief should STFU

and STOP creating WARS, not to mention, INSTABILITY in the ME.

peace

[tx_dem41]

31. Cute.

I guess you don't care about what Chirac, Schroeder, the Arab League, or Annan say either. Have fun in your fortress!

[bpilgrim]

33. you think more wars are 'CUTE'?

why do you think cheney lives in a FORTRESS, because it's 'CUTE'

whatever...

peace

[tx_dem41]

I think avoiding important issues such as Lebanon/Syria...

and wanting to build a "fort" in one's backyard is "cute". I used to be cute as a child. I think you will agree, I am no longer cute.

[bpilgrim]

43. as i said, starting WARS in the ME is not CUTE

spin that all you want it ain't gonna fly here.

peace

[cliss]

18. You got that right.

The Bush people think differently from the rest of us. To them, success and failure are not gauged the way we would.

In their eyes, the fact that they get to go back to the White House and sit down in their offices, means they are successful. Whatever they do, as long as they are not thrown out on the street or locked up in jail = means they are successful.

They do NOT care what the rest of the world thinks. Their world is about POWER.....OIL....DOMINATION. And as long as they hold the power, they dominate. And as long as they have the keys to the missile silos & our arsenal of bombs, they have won.

It's an all or nothing thing with them. There are no grades, no scales of compromise. Everything is viewed in a linear fashion. There are no real complexities, just equations that need to be solved. And they know how to do it.

They don't think like the rest of us, and it's about time we recognized that.

[tx_dem41]

21. So you are siding with Syria on this issue?

You believe they are in the right? I'm a bit confused. Its easy to tell what you are against. It's just difficut to discern what you are for.

[tx_dem41]

22. Does it bother you that Syria has spent 15 yrs debasing the Lebanese?...

Quite frankly, I have no sympathy for the Syrians when it comes to Lebanon. They need to get out of Lebanon as they promised they would in 1989.

[bpilgrim]

24. it BOTHERS me when our war monger in chief starts calling out other countr

for doing the same fucking thing we are doing.

lets get our OWN house in order BEFORE we clean others.

peace

[tx_dem41]

32. Of course, that wasn't the question I asked.....

I guess you are for the Syrian army to remain in Lebanon. The confusing thing is that in another post you said you were for stability in the ME. You're giving me whiplash here. LOL....pick one side and stick to it.

[bpilgrim]

42. letting you shape the debate in juvenial Black and White terms is what M$M

WHORES do daily however that tactic doesn't work on DU where we have a permanent record and the best minds on the internet to expose the truth.

making WARS in the ME is not my idea of stability though obvously it's yours... you sound just like the imperial japanese during wwII with their policy in asia.

peace

[Sandpiper]

45. False Dilemma

Either you agree with Bush on this, or you're against self-rule for Lebanon.

Ummm, no and no.


One is not contingent upon the other.

My opposition to Bush making ultimatums has nothing to do with my feelings on Lebanese self-determination.


I don't support Bush looking to create a reason to attack the next country on the PNAC hit list, period.

And trying to make lack of support for Bush on this issue tantamount to lack of support for Lebanon is intellectually dishonest at best.

[bpilgrim]

46. tx_dem41 puts us all to sleep with his sophistry

the rest of us on DU call'em as we see'em ;->

peace

[Sandpiper]

47. I think you called this one perfectly

n/t

[tx_dem41]

55. There you go being "cute", again!

Hey, if you want to chuck all rock-ribbed Democratic principles (you see they are Democratic principles going back to FDR and even Wilson...the Rethugs always want to "frame" the debate differently...shame you buy into it), at the altar of being obsessed with *, feel free to.

I don't like the guy, so the thought of being obsessed with him is a bit distasteful. Quite frankly, I don't see how people have the stomach for it. Can you help me figure that out? Is it a love/hate kind of thing?

[tx_dem41]

53. Well, it looks like we agree too, Sandy....since I reject the false

...dilemma you think you are attempting to corner me into.

Either you disagree with Bush, or you are for Syria getting out of Lebanon. You picked the exact right phrase that you proposed earlier...."False Dilemma". I appreciate you calling it that.

Thanks...you saved me having to look that up.

[procinderella]

61. You either for us or against us

That sounds very familiar.

[tx_dem41]

49. If making wars in the ME is not your idea of stability...

then you are against Syria being in Lebanon...a war that has been going on for 15+ yrs (prolonging the 10 yr civil war before that).

Hey, we agree!

[bpilgrim]

54. more fantasy land logic

yeah, we agree

peace

[tx_dem41]

56. From your words....it appears we do on that point. n/t

[Sandpiper]

28. So, do you support the CIA destabilizing the region

So that Bush will have an excuse to attack the next target on the "Axis of Evil."


Or do you believe that this has all just been one big, fortuitous coincidence for Dubya?

[tx_dem41]

34. Its real simple what I believe. I believe that well before we even knew...

Bush would be President, Syria should have gotten the hell out of Lebanon. Most of my fellow Democrats used to believe that too. Now, that Bush is President, I know that I am consistent with my thoughts. Too bad the priniciples of so many colleagues are proving quite flexible (or is that "brittle"?).

[Sandpiper]

35. Please answer my question

Rather than dodging it.

[tx_dem41]

36. Funny that you are calling me on that, considering you never answered..

mine. No, of course I don't. Can you explain the logic as to why that would change my principle on this issue? I'm dumbfounded trying to think of an explanation.

[Sandpiper]

37. Stop being evasive and answer my question

Your deliberately obtuse routine isn't fooling me.

[tx_dem41]

39. What part of "No, of course I don't. " didn't you understand?

It was in my last post. Sheez.

But, the irony that you are getting incensed on this matter, while dodging my original question is quite entertaining!... Thanks!

[Sandpiper]

40. You never answered the second part

So spare me the feigned indignation.

I'll make it simple.

Do you believe that the recent instability in Lebanon is all just a well-timed coincidence for Bushco/PNAC?

[tx_dem41]

57. I didn't answer the second part because it poses ....

wait, a second, there's a phrase for it....someone posted it on this very thread.

Yep, there it is....its a "False Dilemma".

Well, what do you know?!? YOU came up with that phrase in post #45! You sly dog, you!

Oh, just to settle your obsession on my answer, "I don't know". My most likely guess is that it originated with Syrian secret police (they have a history of being a nasty crew), or possibly a local rival from Beirut. But, like you, I don't have any evidence. Just wild-assed speculation.

[Sandpiper]

67. Evasion, sophistry, projection

Thanks for showing me your modus operandi.

And welcome to my ignore list.

[tx_dem41]

69. I answered both of your questions, even with explanation....

You never had the manners to answer mine once. I explained quite early that I was remaining consistent in the way that I have always felt about Syria.

You condemn one with empty words and phrase about imagined offenses that they inflicted on you, yet if you look at your "arsenal" you wield those weapons proudly.

You are a confusing and frustrating person, Sandy. So please, put me on your ignore list. I will wear that honor proudly, and will feel comfortable in the knowledge that I will never again have to spend another few hours in frustration attempting to have an honest, intellectual debate with you. I've discovered its impossible.

[kayell]

13. It's all so familiar, it seems like a dream

How long before Shrubbie insists the Syrians prove that they don't have the missing WMD?

[Sandpiper]

27. And yet there are people here Gullible enough to believe

That U.S. spooks don't have their fingerprints all over this one.


I mean, the PNAC crowd would NEVER destabilize the political situation in Lebanon as an excuse to get at Syria, would they? :eyes:


Let's see, so far the sequence has been:

1) Assassination

followed by

2) Political upheaval

followed by

3) Dubya and Condi making threats and giving ultimatums


How conveniently it has all unfolded.

[tx_dem41]

38. No...you have the chronology wrong.

The political upheaval occurred when Syria refused to leave Lebanon. That came before the recent assassination.

Two questions:

Before two weeks ago, did you know that Syria basically had occupied Lebanon for 15+ years?

If so, how did you feel about Syria doing that?

[lebkuchen]

14. Invade Syria, then, Chimpy

You've got 150,000 in Iraq already. What's stopping you?

[Sandpiper]

25. The CIA and Mossad sure have been busy

For those of you who think this has all come about on its own, don't you think it's just a little convenient that all recent events in Lebanon seem to be lining up a perfect excuse for Bushco to attack Syria?

This is all straight out of the PNAC play book.

[The Zanti Regent]

29. The Neoconstipated 5th columnists MUST do as Piggy Sharon says

Piggy Sharon is busy throwing one of his fits because he can't get at Iran so now he's ordering his Neoconstipated acolytes to take out Syria.

Well, Piggy Sharon had his stooges send my son, my only child, to die for the Likudniks in Iraq. I have no more children they can brainwash and steal from me.

The hottest part of hell awaits you Piggy and you and your neoconstipated Nazi Republican stooges deserve to burn for all eternity!

[ausiedownunderground]

44. The situation on the ground in Lebanon is very complicated!

Most of the world agrees that it would be good for Lebanon if Syrian influence on its internal affairs was removed to a normal level that most countries have on each other. However Lebanon is a mixture of a very diverse group of people's who don't always see eye to eye. Lebanon has large groupings of christian maronites ,sunni moslems and shia moslems. It also has a large number of Palestinians on the ground, usually found in "Camps". A large number of Syrians make their economic living in Lebanon. The Sharonnites sit just across the border armed to the teeth. France used to "run" both Lebanon and Syria as a protectorate and still wields some influence. Iran has Hezbollah as a proxy force acting as a tripwire for any potential Sharonnite aggression.777777 The US continues to try and bring "Freedom & Democracy" to the rest of the world. Syria controls the Lebanese Mukhabarat or Secret Police. The small but very tight knit Druze militia of Walid Jumblatt likes to flex its muscle as a seperate political identity. All these groupings of different ideas on how Lebanon should be run as a nation state make the situation on the ground very complicated and more likely to be very difficult to control. Ethnically, Lebanon makes Iraq look like a teaparty and look how well the Neo-Crazies are doing there! Getting Syria to withdraw its 13,000-15,000 troops who spend most of their time in their barracks is going to be the easy bit!!! What follows may require the wisdom of Soloman to work out without bloodshed!

[Barkley]

50. I agree

The U.S. is creating a Lebanon in Iraq. One arguement for the continued occupation is to prevent Iraq from unraveling into a civil.

But the longer we stay the more complicated and entrenched the interests and relationships become.

And the more complicate withdrawing our troops becomes.

[Barkley]

48. Pure Hypocracy

The US is demanding an end to the occupation of Lebanon,
meanwhile it occupies Iraq.

A majority of Iraqis want the foreign troops to leave.

Like, the occupation of Syrian, America's presence in Iraq
is undesired by a large segment of the population.

[Disturbed]

51. If Lebennon breaks out in Civil War ...

will the Bush Junta insist upon sending in U.S troop peacekeepers or will the UN be responsible for doing that?

[teryang]

58. The Noble Liars Attack Syria

The "Noble Liars" Attack Syria
By SAUL LANDAU and FARRAH HASSEN

http://www.counterpunch.org/landau03022005.html

<...Indeed, historical amnesia after Hariri's murder permitted Bush officials to sanctimoniously demand that Congress warn Syria to end her "occupation" of Lebanon and support Lebanese "sovereignty." Even Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, who commanded Israeli military operations in Lebanon in 1982, made such a demand.>

<What Chutzpah! Sharon demands Syrian withdrawal while Israel continues its 38-year occupation of Palestinian territories, in defiance of UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338. Indeed, Israel still occupies Syria's Golan Heights in violation of UN Security Council resolution 497.> (How many Israeli acts of sedition, armed incursions and air attacks into Lebanon have their been? US hypocrisy after its illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq are also discussed.)

<Another part of the "noble lie" relates to the threat Syria's 14,000 troops poses to Lebanese "sovereignty." In fact, the bilateral agreement between Lebanon and Syria to station troops resulted directly from the prior destabilization of Lebanon by Israel, the United States, France and to a lesser extent Syria ­ whose interests are directly affected by Lebanese instability.>

<If rogue elements in Syrian did the Beirut murder, it was what Israeli journalist Uri Avnery's called "an act of supreme folly, since it was obvious that it would help the Americans build up the Lebanese opposition and arouse a storm of anti-Syrian sentiment.">

Some of the commentary in this thread shows a complete lack of knowledge concerning the tumultuous history of Lebanon resultant to the Arab Israeli wars. The fact is that the Syrian occupation has been much more successful in stabilizing Lebanon than any efforts by Israel or the west. While the time for withdrawal may be at hand due to external machinations of Syria's enemies, the patent hypocrisy of Syria's critics echo the techniques of Heydrich and Goebbels to mobilize the public for invasion of Poland, Austria and Czechloslovakia.

[teryang]

62. More from Counterpunch on Lebanon

http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp03052005.html

An Interview with Fadi K. Agha, Foreign Policy Advisor to President Emil Lahoud
By GARY LEUPP

<The remaining Syrian troops in Lebanon (out of a 45,000 contingent) were part of a peace keeping force that entered Lebanon at the REQUEST OF THE LEBANESE GOVERNMENT, and ended the civil war in Lebanon. They have since 1990 been gradually diminished by a series of withdrawals. These withdrawals were determined and conducted by joint Lebanese and Syrian authorities, as they fit the needs of both countries. A vociferous minority has always opposed the presence of Syrian forces (making much less of a deal when ISRAEL OCCUPIED parts of Lebanon.) Today, this minority has seen its ranks swell by the joining of a few opportunists who were until YESTERDAY the beneficiaries of Syrian "largesse." They have seen the wagons are circling, and are hoping to live for another day. These are the same warlords, sectarian barons and opportunists who lead us once before to ruin. They have aligned themselves with the sincere "boy scouts," exploiting their grief and concerns. Since day one of his presidency, President Assad has committed himself to withdrawing the troops from Lebanon, and we have since seen a series of withdrawals. The remaining contingent's withdrawal was very much on the table, but it's timing is determined by the leaderships in Beirut and Damascus...>

<I recall that ONLY TWO YEARS ago, President Chirac of France (from the pulpit of the Lebanese Parliament) lauded the Syrian presence a very positive element, and said that Syrian troops should withdraw only when a comprehensive peace settlement is reached in the area. Basically, you are right, Syrian troops in Lebanon are a multi pronged excuse...>

<In a nutshell, we need to remember that the last time "anyone" tried to shove a solution down the throat of the Lebanese, without reaching a National consensus, it lead to disaster. We are seeing such attempts today with the adoption of UN Security Council Resolution 1559, and its most DANGEROUS stipulation, namely the disarming of our National Resistance. Needless to say, that the Lebanese are also NOT entirely united on the mechanisms and schedules of a Syrian military withdrawal, as MANY in the so called "opposition" have selectively read the Taef Accords, when in reality it calls for withdrawals to coincide with reforms and the ABOLITION of political sectarianism. >

[procinderella]

64. Thank you Teryang

I think you laid it out for us very neatly.

Mobilizing public support for invasions is exactly the business BushCo is in. Two countries down, two more to go this year alone...

There is no end in sight. As long as people believe freedom is on the march and are allowed to live in relative security, and are not able to see first-hand the bloodshed (that that Italian journalist was trying to report), BushCo will become even more bolder.

I am so sorry for my generation. I really did love America and the picket white fences. That was a time before judges were murdered (in my own neighborhood in Chicago) by white supremacists. There was a time before torture was condoned. That was a time when honor meant defending the Constitution of the U.S. and not "Suspending" it.

Slowly, over the next few years, the Resistance will form and emergency measures will be adopted once the blogs are shut down. And the peace that once was will remain a beacon of hope.

Good luck everyone. Of course, you can say I'm wrong. I sure hope so. But by next year, we will know one way or the other.

[jpgray]

63. Saddam's destruction of Al-Samoud missiles 'not enough'

We have so much credibility on this one.

[Deja Q]

65. tick tock, stroke the clock.

[DemonFighterLives]

66. Will Lebanon be any happier with W and Sharon

I think B*shco is only up to no good and Sharon is leading him by the nose.