North Korea demands U.S. apology, threatens to resume missile tests

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.canada.com/businesscentre/story.html?id=78110a5b-c8c9-49fc-9046-28cd0c6abe74

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) - North Korea demanded Wednesday that the United States apologize for designating the country as an "outpost of tyranny" and it threatened to resume long-range missile tests.

However, the North also held out the possibility of returning to nuclear disarmament talks if Washington agrees to coexist with the communist country. North Korea declared Feb. 10 that it had nuclear weapons and was boycotting talks aimed at ending its nuclear ambitions.

At the time, it cited U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's designation of North Korea as one of the "outposts of tyranny," during her Senate confirmation in January. The North said that statement, which it attributed to President George W. Bush, was evidence that Washington has not abandoned its "hostile" policy toward North Korea since the U.S. leader lumped it in an "axis of evil" with Iran and prewar Iraq.

"The U.S. should apologize for . . . above-said remarks and withdraw them, renounce its hostile policy aimed at a regime change in the DPRK and clarify its political willingness to coexist with the DPRK in peace and show it in practice," the North Korean Foreign Ministry said in a memorandum, using the acronym of the country's formal name - Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

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[cliss]

1. .....the wild card on planet earth....

The unpredictable Joker.

The more the Bush administration turns its attention toward the Middle East and Venezuela, the more this Unwanted Child disrupts the Focus of Attention and directs it onto itself.

Kim Jong Il is looking for an apology. Do they really believe one is forthcoming?

[sweetheart]

2. Ya gotta investigate deeper in to the frame

In korean history, Teddy Roosevelt sold them out to be enslaved by
the japanese from 1910 to 1945... so there is indeed fair precedent of
americans dealing in bad faith on the korean peninsula.

Similarly, after WW2, during the occupation of SK, we left the japanese
and japanese-friendly people in power, thereby stirring up the wrath of
the common person against our puppet sygmun rhee government. Had the
north koreans not invaded in 1950, likely the south would have fallen
in to civil war anyways due to the american enslavement and colonialism.

So hmmm.. 2 times in a century, the US has enslaved the korean peoples,
and the NK jong il dude sees himself as a pure representative of the
unblemished (read: unenslaved) korean, that all measures are justified
to keep america from doing it a THIRD time.

South Korea has only recently become a sorta-free country as it still
has war-powers enacted that allow it to freely arrest and imprison
people for "sympathies" without recourse. So arguably, the south
korean system could be called a THIRD time, from the NK point of view,
and they see it as their duty to get the US to foreswear aggression
and apologize for the ugly genocides, war crimes and crimes against
humanity all brought about by US complicity.

If you get a south korean drunk away from his mates, he'll tell you
the less savoury views that most koreans harbour about america and its
genocidal pawns in SK. (cheju island massacre and Kwangju massacres
as exemplification of the style)

[Southern Dem 2005]

6. Kim Jong Il leads one of the most oppressive governments in the world

He needs to be removed from power. North Korea with nukes is a terrible idea--its like giving guns to crackheads.

[sweetheart]

7. He's attacked nobody

There is no track record of aggression, and rather, korea needs to be
left to itself, and america needs to bugger off. The crackheads are
in washington waging aggressive war, and murdering 10000's of civilians.

Jong Il can be sorted out by open engagement with south korea without
the interference of america, or its puppet in japan. That China, US
and Japan, all countries who have fought colonial wars in korea, think
it a right to meddle is what is "crackhead" about this.

Forcing a scared dog in to a corner, is no way to not get bit.

[Southern Dem 2005]

9. I'm not claiming there is a record of aggression

and I don't believe Bush is approaching this issue correctly. Doesn't change the fact that Jong Il is a megalomaniac and the N. Koreans would be better off without him.

[NNN0LHI]

10. Anyone else you don't like and think should be "removed" from power?

How about the dictator of Pakistan? He treats his people like shit and he already has nuclear weapons. Yet when he comes to DC our government treats him like royalty. I know Fox news doesn't mention that too much but see if you are able to explain that discrepancy.

Don

[Southern Dem 2005]

12. There are LOTS of people I think should be removed from power

Jong Il, Fidel Castro, Iranian mullahs, and the list goes on. Not sure what your point is. All those rulers oppress their people. Regardless of what I think about Bush or the war in Iraq both the Iraqi's and the Afghani's are better off without their former government.

[NNN0LHI]

14. No mention of the dictator Musharraf from Pakistan in your post

I wonder why?

Don

[Southern Dem 2005]

15. Because I haven't seen anything

indicating that Pakistan murders their own people. Musharraf will probably be removed by his own people at some point. In case you haven't noticed, he's not real popular among the Muslim fundamentalists. And once again, I wonder if you have a point?

[NNN0LHI]

18. Thats because you didn't look very hard

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_1-3-2005_pg7_12

Pakistan’s human rights record troubling: US

WASHINGTON: The state of human rights in Pakistan presents a troubling picture, though here and there improvements have been attempted, according to the State Department’s annual human rights report for 2004, released on Monday.

The section on Pakistan notes at the beginning that although there were some improvements in several areas, “serious problems” remained. Local police used excessive force and committed or failed to prevent extra-judicial killings. Sectarian killings continued. Police abused and raped citizens. Prison conditions were extremely poor, and police arbitrarily arrested and detained citizens. Some political leaders remained imprisoned or in exile.

The report points out that case backlogs led to long delays in trials, and lengthy pre-trial detention was common. The judiciary was subject to executive and other outside influence. Corruption and inefficiency remained severe problems. The government violated due process and infringed on citizens’ privacy rights. The press was partly free but in some instances, the government took retaliatory actions against media outlets and journalists. However, media criticism of security forces and the government continued to increase.

The government imposed some limits on freedom of association, religion, and movement. Governmental and societal discrimination against religious minorities remained a problem. Domestic violence against women, rape, and abuse of children remained serious problems. Honour killings continued - local human rights organisations documented 1,458 cases during the year, and many more likely went unreported - though new legislation stiffened penalties for honour killings and criminal procedures for the blasphemy laws and Hudood Ordinances were changed to prevent abuses. Discrimination against women was widespread, and traditional social and legal constraints generally kept women in a subordinate position in society. Trafficking in women and children for forced prostitution and bonded labour, and the use of child labour remained widespread. Workers’ rights were restricted, and debt slavery remained a problem.

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Fox news doesn't say much about this either.

[Southern Dem 2005]

20. There are probably a hundred other countries this might apply to

While I'm nopt sticking up for what is happening in Pakistan, I still don't get your point. Do you have some fascination with Pakistan? You haven't mentioned any of the atrocities in the African countries, China's crappy human rights record, etc.

[sweetheart]

11. indeed, but then lets add perspective to the spreadsheet

If you're sorting out pressing crisis points on the planet due to bad
governance, then congo should be at the top of your list, then sudan,
and turkmanistan, and NK as well.

In pure numbers congo is where millions! died last year from strife.
Jong Il will go away with "engagement" which will happen best without
the colonial superpowers... as koreans are better to trust other koreans
and with increasing south/north korean engagement, the regime will
collapse in to the arms of its own family and we can all breathe a
sigh of relief.

That whackjob in turkmenistan with his new bible, closing hospitals
and all, he's a disaster. The scumbags running saudi arabia could
use a wake up call as well.

The problem with being a neoliberal and denying soevereignty on the
grounds of human rights abuse, is that perspective must be maintained
to show that it is not simply political whim driving focus.

In this regard, american noses best be pointed to the gross inequality
amongst their own black population, prisons of mostly blacks, separate
segregated school systems in the south and real problems on the home
front that make us hipocrates to go abroad crying for human rights
to be respected.

[Southern Dem 2005]

13. School systems everywhere in the US

are segregated. How many white kids you see in inner-city NYC schools? The fact that we haven't sorted out our race relations issues doesn't mean we should sit idly by while governments torture or massacre their own citizens. That's the same type of isolationist argument that allowed Hitler to flourish.

[NNN0LHI]

16. "torture or massacre their own citizens..."

You had better google Chicago Police Commander Jon Burge and learn a little bit about torture in your own country before going on about others. See if his past crimes of torturing and sending innocent people to death row makes you proud to live in America. Fox news doesn't mention him either.

Don

[Southern Dem 2005]

17. Do you have any indication that it has been the policy of

the American government to systematically torture or kill their own people? People everywhere, in all countries, do things they shouldn't. That doesn't mean that the city of Chicago endorses killing/torturing its citizenry. You know, the great thing about democracy is that such behavior would probably get someone removed from office.

So, if you don't like the American government (which your posts seem to indicate) what do you propose? Should we just let other countries do what they want? Or do have something to add, other than pointing to isolated incidences of law-breaking. I can add some for you (the Klan in the South, lynch mobs in the West, etc) but that doesn't mean our form of government doesn't work.

[NNN0LHI]

21. Actually systematically torturing and killing people has been US policy

Aren't the native Americans in this country "our people". Didn't the USA systematically torture or kill them? No? Weren't you taught history in school?

Don

[Southern Dem 2005]

24. Your crazy, I like you, but your crazy

Of course we systematically killed them. Just as we systematically killed and enslaved blacks, the Germans systematically killed Jews, and Russia systematically killed everyone. Doesn't mean that past acts make the people living today bad.

Again, do--you--have--a--point?

[sweetheart]

19. Yes hitler flourished as the german people were duped

just like bush has duped the american people. So indeed, the argument
i'm making is to not be duped and to speak to the world "do as we do,
AND as we say" rather than the smug "do as we say, not as we do"
pious rhetoric that is easily disregarded as idle chatter by other
despots.

Words have no power if there is no will to act. That american society
sits idly by whilst great injustice is done at home makes all those
foreign policy words worth zip diddly.

[Southern Dem 2005]

22. Agree totally

that's why things like state government opposition to the civil rights movement were so damaging. However, while Bush's policies suck, I don't think they have done that much immediate damage. I imagine his actions are going to cause more long-term damage. That said, some policies, like detainment of citizens who are terror suspects, strike me as clearly unconstitutional.

[dbt]

3. Damn. That nagging question is here AGAIN!

How come a Moral Failure like Bill Clinton could keep North Korea pacified, yet our current Dear Leader and Paragon Of Virtue cannot?

[woosh]

5. wasn't there a 3rd party

that went to North Korea (like Carter) and brokered a deal just when Clinton was ready to bomb the hell out of it? He had to go on CNN to announce it or something?

[Toots]

8. That was Haiti

But we did enter into agreements with North Korea which Bush* immediately withdrew from when he took office.

[woosh]

27. nope, pretty sure it was N. Korea

President Clinton elected to rely on former President Jimmy Carter and decided to appease the Marxist-Stalinist dictatorship.

Carter met with North Korean leader Kim Jong-il in Pyongyang and returned to America waving a piece of paper and declaring peace in our time. Kim, according to Carter, had agreed to stop his nuclear weapons development.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/7/164846.shtml

there was also a "Frontline" about it.

[Blue to the bone]

31. And Jong-il's promise was worth the paper it was written on. n/t

[Blue to the bone]

30. Cause he looked the other way while they cranked up their program? n/t

[Stevious]

4. I hope the North Koreans love their children too...

:think:

[NNN0LHI]

28. I am just happy they don't buy into the rapture stuff many Americans do

That alone is a relief.

Don

[Blue_Roses]

23. Kim Jong acts like a spoiled child...

While I don't disagree that we are not handling this situation in NK very good, Kim Jong loves to jank our chain. What an effing jerk. He starves his people while he sits on his ass drinking his fine wines...:argh:

[Guckert]

25. Bush did apologize to China. he is a Very Sorry President.

[Nimrod]

26. Korea has got to be pushing for conflict

I mean come on - anybody who pays the tiniest bit of attention to current events knows the US in general and the administration in specific will never offer apology for ANYTHING. The whole world understands we're functioning on the concept that we are flawless and without sin - apologizing for accidentally running over a puppy would ruin that image.

Korea has to understand this, and they must know all they'll get is more antagonism directed toward them. I think they're intentionally pushing for conflict.

[NNN0LHI]

29. Think about it for a moment

Saddam capitulated to Bush's every demand on the run up to the war. He let the UN inspectors into Iraq unmolested for months and then dropped his pants down to his ankles and asked Bush if there was anything else he wanted. What did he get? Invaded. Thats what he got.

Iran and North Korea on the other hand have been telling Boosh to go fuck himself for over four years now and what have they got? They haven't been invaded and occupied. And if they do get invaded, they probably figure it is better to go down fighting like warriors than going down with a whimper and with their tails between their legs like Saddam did. They have seen showing weakness will not help them. They won't make that mistake.

Don