Kansas Voters Keep Anti-Bias Ordinance (Rev. Fred Phelps LOSES)

[underpants]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/topeka_gay_rights

TOPEKA, Kan. - A minister known for picketing the funerals of AIDS (news - web sites) victims failed in his attempt to repeal a Topeka ordinance that prohibits discrimination against homosexuals in municipal hiring.


The Rev. Fred Phelps Sr. was undaunted after voters upheld the anti-discrimination measure Tuesday and publicly dared the City Council to enact another, broader ordinance.


"If you succeed in passing a gay-rights ordinance, the next morning, we'll be back on the streets, collecting signatures," he said.


In final, unofficial results, 53 percent, or 14,285, opposed the repeal effort, while 47 percent, or 12,795, voted for the repeal. Had it passed, the measure also would have blocked future efforts to reinstate such a law for 10 years.

[trotsky]

1. Color me stunned.

Maybe there is hope after all.

[Maraya1969]

2. Can you imagine what would happen if that law was repealed?

The horrors I could think of. It would be the beginning of accepted abuse of gays. It's hard to believe that 12,795 people actually want suppression of gays. They are very sick people.

Phelps is a very sick man. A VERY sick man.

[Maraya1969]

3. Maybe there is something wrong with me

but if I saw Phelps in person I would really like to kick him in the nuts.

Can I get in trouble for saying that?

I feel like a hypocrite now with my AVATAR.

[underpants]

7. Well let me put it this way

If a friend or a relative were to die of AIDS and Phelps showed up to protest/rally at the funeral I don't think I would be the first one in my family going after him and that includes people of ALL political stripes. That is beyond disrespectful.

[AP]

8. Better solution: people picketed by him run fundraisers. People pledge $

to some progressive cause Phelps hates for every minute Phelps pickets them.

So they end up cheering him on, encouraging him to stay, and they're uspet when he leaves.

Like with this vote, there are ways to make his attempts to polarize communities work in the favor of progressives.

No need to hate him the way he hates you. Work it right, and he can actually help you.

[Hamsta1]

20. That is why..

Fred Phelps is one of the top fundraisers for GLBT teens. He's come to my town(Des Moines,IA) to picket a H.S. graduation. Something about a gay kid in a high school. That was it, time to go picket. He probably does a search every week for 'gay' and points his hate-mobile in that direction. I do like the poster he had of Laura Bush with "FAG PIMP" on it. But his ilk is over the fucking edge. just look at these silly bastards...

http://www.godhatesfags.com/photos/photoarchive.html

[VegasWolf]

41. This guy has his gimmick nailed. Tax free vacations to Hawaii, DC,

and all over the country in the guise of hating fags. What
suckers people are for religion.

[MissB]

26. A great idea, AP (nt)

[MuseRider]

44. We did that once.

We had people pledge so much money for every minute they stood outside our symphony concert. He even played along and made a donation. I think he thought it was funny. We only did it once but it was kind of fun. He still comes, each and every concert they are there and our audience has to walk through them.

[calimary]

33. Don't worry about it too much - this schmuck brings that out in people.

I understand completely. This guy really channels the Dark Side. But if THAT, in turn, can indeed be rechanneled to create a backlash, then it winds up being a good thing. A silver lining - with real silver.

Y'know, though...

This could REALLY work to our advantage if, gently, VERY subtly, but persuasively (and repeatedly) we USE this as another MEME of sorts.

Consider:

This guy claims to be a "minister."

The BTK guy was president of his church congregation.

Susan Smith, who drowned her two little boys, was molested by her step-dad - a minister or, I believe, an assistant pastor at his church (I forget his whole name, but NOT his first name - Beverly).

And of course the mullah falwell whose immediate reaction to 9/11 was to condemn feminists, gays and liberals and blame them directly for it - something for which he was forced to apologize publicly after loud condemnation of those remarks.

These are only the examples off the top of my head (and pardon the pun, but Heaven knows how many more there actually are!) that go to a seed planting - that these radical religiosos and ayatollas and disciples of hatred are taking the Lord's Name in vain and are perverting the very message and spirit of Our Savior.

As in - "by thy friends art thou known." You REALLY want to align with THEM?

kkkarl rove evidently has a page in his playbook that calls for attacking his enemies' strengths. Witness the full-frontal on seniors' groups like AARP (a very strong and reliable voting block), AND in the vote fraud department, taking direct aim at us here in California (a strong and reliably blue state). NOW, with items like these, WE might be able to return the favor. I think it's a very deviously shrewd way to attack the fundies. Sow discontent, confusion, questioning, dissention in the ranks, and possible splintering-off. Encourage them to start eating their own. Divide and conquer. We could chip away at their solid, monolithic power front with tools like these. We could chip away a LOT. We could reinforce a nagging, deep-down disturbance and discomfort in OTHER folks' minds toward these people, and get THEM questioning and doubting whether THEY want to be involved with, or part of (or CONSIDERED AS PART OF - REMEMBER, PERCEPTION IS EVERYTHING!) these awful, icky, uber-sinful, evil, hateful, negative, judgmental people. Help these whackos alienate people within their own perceived power base. Start peeling away at their strength. Has to be done with delicacy and EXTREME subtlety. But I think it COULD INDEED be done.

POISON THE WELL.

Turn them into their own big, fat, evil-smelling, pus-oozing wedge issue.

Just a thought...

[Richard Steele]

35. Rofl! Thank you for the mental image...

...of the Dalai Lama kicking Phelps in the nuts!

[VegasWolf]

Maraya! You are not alone!! Boy Fort Meyers has really grown! n/t

[bunkerbuster1]

48. You're no hypocrit. Jesus would want to kick that guy in the nuts.

He wouldn't do it, but he'd want to.

[struggle4progress]

51. I hear the Republicans believe that assault is acceptable ...

... as long as no organ failure or death results.

[calico1]

4. Nice to hear.

Especially from Conservative Kansas.
Yet another hate filled "Minister." What a joke. Kudos to the people of Kansas for doing the right thing.

[Zenlitened]

5. Congrats and thank you to the good people of Topeka.

:)

[Mad_Dem_X]

6. Bravo, Kansas!

Phelps is a grade-A sicko.

[aka-chmeee]

9. This feels good, but.......

This was a municipal issue in the capitol city where a trace of liberalism lives on and a lot of people are completely fed up with Phred Phelps. The true test will be the statewide issue to be decided later this year. I have little hope that it will turn out as well.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

10. what's the matter with kanasa?

i couldn't resist it :7

[meganmonkey]

11. I dunno - what's kanasa?!

:P

Just kidding, I couldn't help myself.

I'm a little giddy this morning. :silly:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. oh cranp! kansas

[enki23]

12. that was relatively close

had phelps, himself a controversial fuck, not come out in favor of repeal, i'd wager it would have been repealed.

[mainer]

13. It's not about gay rights; it's about Phelps

kansas folks are fed up with him. There've been several quotes from Kansas voters saying that they're not necessarily pro-gay rights, but they're tired of Phelps being an embarrassment. And economically they've also suffered from loss of convention and tourist business.

[Neecy]

17. I agree...

Phelps, disgusting as he is, actually helps the gay community because he's so utterly over-the-top that his agenda repulses almost everyone. This vote was a backlash against Phelps and his methods - of that I have no doubt.

That said, congratulations to Topeka.

[MuseRider]

18. In all the hours

I spent on the phone with people here I can say the issue was more about discrimination than Fred. It was about him because he started this, spread lies, makes people embarrased and angry but in talking with the voters the overwhelming number of them react to Fred then go on to say that they think discrimination is wrong. Phelps is a problem and it did help us but discrimination was the bottom line here.

[Neecy]

27. this may be true...

And I have no doubt that there are many decent people in Topeka who took a stand against discrimination. But Phelps really does help expose the sordid underbelly of pure hatred that drives legislation such as this.

I have a bit of history with the Phelps family. In the mid 1990's, a friend and I discovered that his grandson, who was attending Kansas State, had on his K State server space a 'god hates fags' type of site. We contacted the student newspaper and since my sister belongs to the Kansas State Alumni Association we set them after it (always potent to use the alumnis - they need their money). One might think that the conservative campus of K State would either ignore or excuse this site, but it was so hateful, so disgusting, that it made people rethink their positions. KSU refused to take down the site, claiming free speech rights, and we kept at them on the basis that taxpayer money was funding his hate speech and he was completely free to pay to host his site elsewhere (although, interestingly enough, most hosts will not allow hate sites on their servers- but KSU felt free to do so). While KSU didn't back down, enough heat was apparently generated on campus that the Phelps grandson took it down on his own volition. My point being - that while it took a couple of liberal Californians to point out what the Phelps spawn was doing, once the content became known we had a huge number of allies amongst people who ordinarily wouldn't have cared only because the message was so extraordinarily hateful. So, in an odd way, Phelps does serve our interests in that he shocks people into awareness.

Good job, by the way, on your work in Topeka. A big hug and pat on the back your way :) The fight is never over.

[MuseRider]

36. I see what

you are saying and you are right about how they help us. One of the Phelps sons or grandsons wrote an LTTE last week that most likely helped us a bit too. He spent a great deal of it telling us that there never had been a single incident of discrimination against "sodomites" in Topeka. After I cleaned up from that little contradiction I wondered if they really thought their signs were not discriminatory and if they really thought that spitting and oinking at people just because they know or think they are gay is not discriminatory. I am not certain how they would define discrimination but apparently it is not the same way most of us do.

I am surprised that KSU would allow that, even though they may be conservative I am still surprised. Good for you though, trying to get it done really put the pressure on him and that is the way we have to do this since we seem to be left hanging out in the breeze all alone with the truth these days.

Thanks, it was good work and I am very proud to have been part of that team.

[Neecy]

39. I was surprised, too

The campaign to remove that site from KSU's servers got a lot of attention. The grandson would remove it, put it up again, and remove it. Finally, a student group at KSU succeeded in having it permanently removed *only after* he graduated in 1997 and they persuaded the university to disable access for former students.

It's frightening, but I believe he's now a teaching assistant at KU, although he's promised KU not to use his university email account to spread his peculiar brand of hatred.

Here's a small blurb about it in Wired News - http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,4872,00.html

[MuseRider]

40. It is Creepy Ben

he writes some really vile stuff. I guess I should not be surprised. Ick. I spoke with a woman during this campaign who had used one of the boys for her attorney in some case against her employer. She told him that she was gay and asked him if that made a difference and he told her it did not, he kept that part of his life separate. Now I would never have used him but he was all she could afford so she did. He got her settlement but she always felt bad using him. So, apparently they are able to keep their wacked out lives separate from their professional lives but I swear I would do a quick exit if I ever thought one of them was in anyway involved with something I needed.

[malachi]

14. Phelps and his spawn are a prime example of why abortion

should not only be legal, it should be mandatory.

[reprobate]

30. Too bad abortion can't be applied retroactively.

[gratuitous]

15. Good for Topeka!

Now, let's roll out the concomitant measure: Since the initiative that Phelps wanted would have banned reinstatement of the prohibition against discrimination for 10 years, Topeka should have a measure on the next municipal ballot that prohibits repeal of the present ordinance for 10 years.

Phelps and his ilk can't very well claim that that would be unconstitutional, since it was their proposal in the first place. And in 10 years, the 83-year-old Phelps may no longer be around to spread his poison.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. He's only 73? FUCK!

And here I was hoping he'd kick the bucket any minute now. :mad:

[MuseRider]

16. Thank you!

We did it. I have spent 3 weeks, that is how long we were given to fight this, not sleeping and working my ass off on this issue. We won! It was not all about Phelps as some above have said, it is way more complicated than that. The people of this city do not believe in discrimination. As someone mentioned above, it was too close. That is true but the other side split into groups so that people could vote for this initiative and feel part of a group that was not the Phelps group and that also allowed the lies to spread from many directions and there were so many lies we could not keep up. It was disgusting what the other side was saying. I was interviewed for the local news last night and had to listen and stand next to one from the other side. They were hateful.

All the national news on this was made to look like it was all a reaction to Fred. I was interviewed by the New York Times and our part of the story was left out. Erin and I spoke of the nature of Topekans and how they were not likely to vote for discrimination if they were given the truth. I guess the truth was not a good story because it ended up all about the reaction of frightened citizens who would not give their names but were voting against Fred so he would not picket them. You just gotta keep on even though the press ignores or misrepresents you. We did and we won and I am very proud of my community today.

[underpants]

21. Good for you and thanks

I guess I fell prey to it too-the stating this as an anti-Phelps move which does nothing but give him free publicity.

Congrats and thanks again.

[MuseRider]

23. No problem

we all understand that we are all subject to what the press is telling us and they are lying most of the time. I have never been so certain that they are also victims of the powers that be, whoever they are. I was encouraged, praised, courted by some of them and after they applauded me, patted me on the back and whispered their secret wishes that we win this went on air or print and we were totally ignored or made to look like a bunch of silly do gooders and the press used the other sides words to describe it all. I now know what it takes to battle that all and I am certain it is going to take every single spare moment of all of our time to win anything. This was far too close and the lies remain and today the other side who wrote the thing are talking about losing because it was too confusing. They wrote it and we are getting the blame for it. Ahhhh well, victory feels really REALLY good today. We have lost too many battles and this was a big one to win, it is overwhelming.

[yorkiemommie1]

22. congratulations on your victory !

i am very happy for all of us who do not believe in hate.

[MuseRider]

24. Thank you.

It feels Sooooo good to win one.

[ryan_cats]

25. Ha ha ha ha

The scary part is %47 believe his hate.

[stanwyck]

28. Think like Rove, and

make Phelps the face of rightwing hate. I saw a photo of his daughter in last week's TIME magazine...holding a sign proclaiming: God Hates Fags. How repulsive. And the Phelps led picketing of a murder victim's funeral ranks as one of the most disgraceful actions in recent history.
Mainstream Americans got behind the Civil Rights movement when presented on national TV with the sneering, hate-filled faces of racists. Do the same to the hate-mongering fundies.
My advice: make these people the face of Christian fundamentalism and hope that enough Americans find this so abhorent we come to our senses as a nation and vilify these people for their corrosive hate.

[David__77]

31. Phelps is good for gay rights.

Without him, we might have lost this one!

[reprobate]

32. The answer to people like Phelps is to start labelling them what they are.

Psychologicly these haters are suffering from projection:

"The attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or suppositions to others"

This is usually done unconsciously.

Just make this known and you defang the haters. There is no way they can refute the basic psychology.

[redqueen]

34. That's too close... less than 1500 people.

:scared:

[MuseRider]

38. It is OK

we will do better next time now that we have the organization to hit the ground running. Given more time to educate voters we would have done better, I promise you that. Phelps wrote this thing to be deceptive and they had enough money to leave pamphlets everywhere with nothing but lies on them, it was amazing the things they came up with. Now they are saying they lost because of the confusion, asswipes, they wrote the damned thing to kill us. We have only begin, this community would have handed a landslide had we had maybe 2 more weeks.

[GOPBasher]

37. I'm glad they upheld the law and I'm glad the Phelps lost. In Anything!

[Merope215]

42. That's terrific news

and I'm very glad to hear it. And I think Fred Phelps could be one of the best things ever to happen for gay people in this country if we can manage to work it right like lots of the other posters have suggested.

:toast: to Topeka!

[Mary in KC]

43. No News Coverage inKC

Our News won't report on Phelps. But the NYT has done two stories on it all so I got the info from them.

Phelps loves publicity and local papers report on his doings. It just makes him worse.

Yep<, the ole bull horn and picket signs at gay funerals. He's such a guy! I read on Raw Story that his group plans to picket Jon Edward's upcoming speech. Called Edwards a slave to the fag/dyke masters - or some such stupid thing.[br />
That's our guy!

[MuseRider]

45. KC was the only place

to come to our campaign center and do a story but it was preempted by the BTK story. The New York Times interviewed me and the head of the Equal Justice Coalition and they left us out of the story entirely because we kept trying to focus the issue on discrimination and all they wanted was to portray our city as a bunch of scardy cats who are having a knee jerk reaction to Fred. Sad, sad, sad.

Edit to add WELCOME to DU Mary

[atommom]

46. Welcome to DU, Mary!

[AnnInLa]

47. Plans to picket Edwards speech Friday night

[Vogon_Glory]

49. Hooray For The Good People of Topeka! eom

[Zuni]

50. Good job Topeka! Fred Phelps is an ass