Warning on North Sea warming

[lovuian]

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Warning on North Sea warming

MARTIN WILLIAMS March 02 2005



CLIMATE change is causing a northward drift of microscopic marine life, raising fears that other North Sea life will follow.
Scientists in the continuous plankton recorder survey found that plankton in the North Sea are heading north as seawater temperature rises.
A government report published yesterday, which uses results of the survey, said that sea surface temperatures have been rising since the 1970s, while surface salinity has been decreasing. Long-term changes in both of these measures are likely to affect marine species

more...

This is probably the scariest part of the whole Bush's administration not signing Kyoto Treaty!!!

[Enquiringkitty]

1. The earth has been getting progressively warmer since the last ice age.

We are helping it along though. Bush is an idiot but he is protecting the corporations instead of the environment. He has a corporate mentality toward the earth. They believe that God gave man dominion over the earth and to them that means "control", "to use as seen fit", not dominion as in "to harbor or protect". Some Demos have asked me how Bush can be a Christian and care so little for God's creation. This is why ... money and semantics.

[hedgehog]

2. Check out this month's Scientific American

There's a theory that this is supposed to be an ice age, but that primitive agriculture created enough greenhouse gases to stop it in its tracks. The author makes the point that if primitive farming can have that much of an effect, watch out for what industry can do.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

3. so pollution is the reason we're alive ?? WTF n/t

??

[Enquiringkitty]

4. Geologists have found evidence that the climate worldwide has gotten

warmer since the last ice age then gotten into a cooling trend which seemed to have stopped about the same time that humans began settling in farming tribal communities. They think that the seasonal tilling of the earth and the types of crops, in larger and larger plots, plus the advent of constant use of burned fuel for cooking and heat in the winter might have had an effect on the progression of the cooling trend by adding heaver chemicals into the atmosphere.


Take notes .... there will be a test at the end of this thread. ....lol!

[shadowknows69]

5. I'd think our agricultural efforts

would barely balance out our deforestation efforts as far as producing greenhouse gases.

[hedgehog]

7. The article indicates that early agriculture entailed deforestation

New York state has a lot of abandoned farms and now has a heavier percentage of wood cover than at any time since Europeans came, I believe.

[alfredo]

11. Reframe it as stewardship.

[Igel]

14. Ooohhhh ... stewardship.

Haven't seen that word used in this context since I read a bunch of Dominionist literature in the '80s.

That's their frame.

[alfredo]

21. Steal it and use it for our purposes.

fuck the dominionist.

[vonSchloegel]

6. Signing Kyoto

would have done nothing to curb greenhouse gasses from entering the atmosphere, since China was exempted from the treaty.

China is now the largest consumer on the planet, and number two in petroleum consumption. Increased energy costs in the developed world would have only shifted more manufacturing to China.

[hedgehog]

8. I agree!

When I heard the details on Kyoto, I thought they should have named it the factory relocation treaty! Many things must be done to address the situation, but Kyoto would have been window dressing on incentives to make the situation worse, IMO.

[lovuian]

10. Well if its good enough for Europe & Russia & other nations

its good enough for me

Putting America on the level of China is disasterous!!!

[Igel]

16. Remember that Russia stands to make a bundle of money

off of Kyoto (as well as shoving *'s face in the manure pile).

Their CO2 output's plummeted since the baseline date in Kyoto.

[hedgehog]

22. Did their CO2 output drop because of actual changes

or merely from taking money losing plants off-line? I heard that GErmany cooked the books by including Stalinist era plants from the East in its baseline. The theory is that these would have been shut down anyways, but it makes Germany 's contribution to Kyoto look greater than it is.

[Igel]

24. Their economy went down the tubes, a really large

percent reduction in output (25%? I could Google it.)

And as it comes back it's been in different "industries", and some of the old plants have just fallen to pieces. As Westerners moved in, the old technology was so pathetic that they just built new plants. But still the economy's really shrunk.

Then there's been the retreat from the Arctic north, where the USSR was building communities in some sort of heroic effort to reclaim the frozen tundra for human use--a lot of smaller communities that just sucked up coal for heat.

Russia's going to rake in a pretty penny. And if Germany/France etc. go in and renovate some of Russia's old plants to reduce carbon output even more ....

[Igel]

15. Hi, hedgehog!

(Igil is the German word for 'hedgehog'.)

[hedgehog]

23. Hi yourself!

You have great taste in animals!

[Shakespeare]

9. Mmm. But we sure jumped right in to take the lead on the issue, didn't we

We have bungled this issue--and are now outright ignoring/denying it--from the get-go.

We totally dropped the ball on this.

[RedCloud]

12. for the umpteenth time

Warmer global trends mean an ice age is coming! When the salinity of the drop off point of the ocean conveyor belt changes enough, then the cold water will not be pushed downward only to reemerge near the equator. Thus the cold water will intensify further south and life near the equator will become much hotter. No real happy medium there!

[progressoid]

17. Right - and people don't realize that global warming doesn't mean

just getting stronger sun block. We're talking about rapid, radical, disatrous global climate change. Even the dept of Defense knows this. They see this a bigger threat to peace than terrorism.

[KansDem]

19. You're right! If I recall correctly...

I read an article (what? about a year ago?) that reported that the US Navy is anticipating a "new sea"--the Arctic Sea--emerging sometime in the future. I thought, "If the US Navy believes the polar cap will melt, then why shouldn't the rest of us?"

[progressoid]

20. Yep, its a variation of Nero sleeping while Rome burns

The US population sleeps while the destruction continues.


http://www.ems.org/climate/pentagon_climate_change.html

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/102304G.shtml

[parsifal_e]

13. Kick! n/t

[Baclava]

18. Climate change: Menace or myth?

ON 16 FEBRUARY, the Kyoto protocol comes into force. Whether you see this as a triumph of international cooperation or a case of too little, too late, there is no doubt that it was only made possible by decades of dedicated work by climate scientists. Yet as these same researchers celebrate their most notable achievement, their work is being denigrated as never before.

The hostile criticism is coming from sceptics who question the reality of climate change. Critics have always been around, but in recent months their voices have become increasingly prominent and influential. One British newspaper called climate change a "global fraud" based on "left-wing, anti-American, anti-west ideology". A London-based think tank described the UK's chief scientific adviser, David King, as "an embarrassment" for believing that climate change is a bigger threat than terrorism. And the bestselling author Michael Crichton, in his much publicised new novel State of Fear, portrays global warming as an evil plot perpetrated by environmental extremists...


(Full article on the link)

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/earth/mg18524861.400