Sen. Clinton Urges Punishment For Syria

[chlamor]

Sen. Clinton urges punishment for Syria

By DEVLIN BARRETT
Associated Press Writer

March 1, 2005, 11:46 AM EST

WASHINGTON -- Democratic Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton called Tuesday for tougher punishment against Syria, saying the country was aggressively supporting terrorism in the "dangerous neighborhood" of the Middle East.

In lambasting Syria, Clinton joined a growing chorus of officials in Washington urging the United States to take a harsher stance against that country following a Feb. 14 bombing in Beirut that killed the former premier of Lebanon.
<snip>

Iran and Syria "pose such great threats not only to peace and stability, but in Iran's case the potential for nuclear capacity, and in Syria's case, with the continuation of the support for terrorism that flows from Damascus," she said.

Both Iran and Syria were cause for alarm, but Clinton said Syria deserved special attention.

"I've been particularly troubled by the Syrians' aggressive posture," said Clinton. "We need to send a very clear message that we will not tolerate what we believe to be and have reason to know is the continuing support for terrorism that comes out of Syria and Iran."

Clinton, considered an early front-runner for her party's nomination to the White House in 2008, has asked the Bush administration to toughen economic sanctions against Syria.

She was followed to the stage by Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., who hinted that Syrian President Bashar Assad may find it difficult to hold onto power amid the push for greater democracy in neighboring Lebanon.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--clinton-syria0301mar01,0,4879807.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork

[shadowknows69]

1. this is not my Presidential candidate n/t

[Ms. Clio]

39. She's not mine, either--I will never vote for her n/t

[Mairead]

150. Likewise not. No way in hell. (nt)

[zann725]

180. Agreed. And she calls herself a Dem?!

n/t

[Say_What]

196. Politics as usual in the USSA--what else is new? n/t

[hector459]

216. With no PROOF that Syria was behind assassination, will the rest of the

world call for punishment of the US for the assassinations they KNOW we were behind?

[insane_cratic_gal]

224. Like this one?

I wouldn't doubt it if we ourselves took him out.

If nothing else to push Syria into civil war, curing our problem for us.

Far fetched? probably, but I think this administration is dangerous and unpredictable and capable of anything.

[anitar1]

226. We Have A Long History

of helping things along.

[Norwood]

198. Not mine either n/t

[Sanity Claws]

2. Not another rush to war

Hillary has been making me sick lately.

[renaissanceguy]

145. If she pushes for war, she is toast in the primaries.

Without her base, she's screwed. I don't care how much money she has, hardcore liberals know better.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.16781662

[Stand and Fight]

3. Jeeeebus... n/t

[YDogg]

4. Sounds like an attempt ...

... to build more street cred.

[kevsand]

15. Or an attempt...

to play to a Jewish base in New York for her 2006 re-election campaign. She was, after all, speaking before the Jewish Council for Public Affairs.

Of course, it is theoretically possible that she has seen some intel that she thinks is compelling. Personally, I'm not sure I'd trust any U.S. intel at this point. And I'm increasingly less sure I trust her.

[YDogg]

21. I concur ...

... on all points.

[papau]

38. Perhaps an attempt to go back to sanctions instead of war?

I do trust her.

[never_get_over_it]

65. Your first paragraph is exactly why she voted

for the Iraq Invasion Resolution - and that vote and her recent faith based shit - pro-life comments and now this is exactly why she will never get my vote. Go away Hillary I have Clinton fatigue.

[justy387]

sure blame the Jews

:eyes:

Believe me, Hillary does not to raise her stature with NY Jews, we love her! And, NY Jews are very liberal, so this will not help with us anyhow.

[kevsand]

185. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it that way.

I meant to blame Hillary, not an entire culture.

And I'm perfectly willing to accept your point. My question is, does Hillary know that? Maybe she feels compelled to curry favor.

Or maybe there's something else entirely going on. I'm open to suggestion, especially from people like yourself who are actually on the ground in NY...

[justy387]

191. OK. I Understand. Don't worry!!

We all say things that come out wrong. :toast:

As to your question, I feel that Hillary is just trying to morph herself into a hawkish moderate in preparation for her presidential run.

[Brooklyn Michael]

222. I agree

If there's one consistent play in the Clinton book, it's "triangulation". For better or worse, she's trying to bulk up her hawk credentials so that the inevitable "liberal/dove/wuss" label has less effect.

Do I agree with her statement? I honestly don't know. I'm not going around saying that Syria is as pure as the driven snow, but I'm not going to stand by while someone, even Hillary, trumps up another bogus reason to go to war with someone.

However, I'm not convinced that's what she's doing......:shrug:

[justy387]

223. In 1992, after 12 years under the Reagan-Bush regime,

Democrats were desperate to win, so we didn't mind selling out a bit for two centrist candidates for President and VP. I suggest that we are 1000X better off because we made that choice. Imagine how conservative the judiciary brunch would have been including the Supreme Court if we would have continued to have Republicans.

We wouldn't have the Family Leave Act, the '93 recovery act which paved the way for the prosperous '90s, such a long period of peace, and much more had we not had a Democrat in the White House.

I get flamed a lot for saying this: I don't care if we sell out as long as we win. Because, I know, WE will be better off. I feel that by 2008, after eight years under GOP leadership, Democrats will be so desperate to win that they will embrace the electable Hillary!

[Emillereid]

203. What street? Wall street, Main street or Mean street -- OR maybe just a

dark alley. I wish the Clintons would just fade away. Between her war posturing and abortiion retreat and Bill's whoring with daddy Bush, I've had my fill of them!

[yurbud]

5. not a choice but an echo

[Cha]

6. What is she on about?

What flavor of koolaid did she drink? Or am I being naive?

[Disturbed]

10. Rumor has it that Sen, Clinton will switch parties.

She will be running as a Republican for 2008.

[saltpoint]

31. If Sen. Clinton switches over to the Republicans --

-- Rush Limbaugh's head will explode. He'll be LUNGING for the oxycontin.

[shadowknows69]

67. No, if she were to switch

all her sins would be forgiven. Say 20 hail W's and call me in the morning.

[saltpoint]

74. : )

[Conservativesux]

101. Was that switch or Witch? Hillary will never get my vote.

She destoyed the best chance we had for universal healthcare back in 1993 with that disaster of a plan she cooked up.

Go to the other side of the isle where you belong, Mrs. Clinton.

[CrispyQ]

179. She lost me then too!

And recently she's more than validated my loss of confidence in her.

[me b zola]

117. Let her go

Let all of the DLCers go.

Can we have our party back, yet?

[hollywood926]

173. "rumor has it"

only among nutjobs.

She is a relatively conservative democrat - always has been. Is this news?

[prodigal_green]

12. she, like her husband

are both DLC.

on edit: Maybe we should stop letting Syria torture our prisoners.

[chlamor]

14. I called Hilary's Office

during the run up to the Iraq invasion to voice my opposition to the invasion. I asked the aide if they had been receiving many calls. The aide said yes about 1,300 to 1,400 so far. I asked how many were "for" she said '4", I said "400?", thinking the aide mispoke she said no a total of 4. Hilary still voted for the invasion. I wasn't surprised.

[NJCher]

84. OMG

That does it for me.

This government of ours is useless to us as "the people."

I am so disgusted I can hardly see to type this.


Cher

[Seabiscuit]

208. Our government was just as useless during the Vietnam War.

It was we, the people, who ended that war by demonstrating and rioting in the streets.

As for Hillary's butt-kissing remarks, why am I not surprised????

[justy387]

172. Ever hear of the silent majority?

People *for* something tend not to be as likely to use their energy to push for it. Also, those who support the war, are mostly ignorant fools who don't read the news, and don't question the government. They are not likely to voice their opposition to a governmental action by calling their senators.

While, I'm sure, many more people in NY are opposed to the war in Iraq, don't think it's 1400 to 4.

[katinmn]

177. so much for representing your constituents.

:thumbsdown:

[ClayZ]

46. We need to find out more about those "PRAYER BREAKFASTS"...

Everyone who goes to those comes out a ZOMBIE.

[Cha]

47. And gearin' for more

bloodshed!

[ClayZ]

48. What kind of peace do we seek?

"What kind of peace do I mean? What kind of peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace, the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living, the kind that enables men and nations to grow and to hope and to build a better life for their children - not merely peace for Americans but peace for all men and women - not merely peace in our time but peace for all time."

-- President John F. Kennedy at American University 10 June 1963


Where did we go wrong?

[Cha]

51. Beautiful ..no wonder they

felt they had to kill him.

[me b zola]

119. They killed all of our beautiful people with beautiful minds

:cry:

[AFSCME girl]

138. It all went terribly wrong

November 22, 1963, April 4, 1968, and June 6, 1968 :cry:

No wonder why we are in such a state!! :grr:

[arewenotdemo]

207. Cuba? Vietnam?

Take your pick. And thank Kennedy for it.

And no Hillary for me, ever! I feel like a Repuke almost, the way she's turning my stomach. And I'll never forgive her for that!

[Don1]

88. Just because you asked

It's all about the Fellowship Foundation which sponsors the breakfasts. 33 members of Congress belong. The foundation started back in the 1930's as an anti-Socialist movement, made up of evangelicals, goververnment officials, and businessmen. Since then, it has grown to be international and changed names several times. Many US Presidents (especially the GOP) have had ties to the group. They have actually done an annual prayer breakfast for not merely years, but decades (since 1953).

Look them up on the Internet:
http://www.wheaton.edu/bgc/archives/GUIDES/459.htm

[aikido15]

92. Anti-socialist group...

Wonderful. It's going to take a fucking revolution to get any social justice in the land of corporate greed and the home of the slave!

[pokercat999]

126. The time draws near. NT

[Rush1184]

178. EXACTLY!!!!

When are the people finally going to put a stop to this bullshit and stand up for themselves!

[ClayZ]

99. Maybe it is the "Dark Side of the Moon".....

http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/moon.html

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. Hillary was all for the Iraq war based on lies too.

No surprise here. Actually, what qualifications and wisdom does this woman actually have to be making decisions like this? She ought to get Chelsea to go join up if she is so big on this shit.

Anyway, what ever became of the big flap she was making about the contamination in NY after 911?

[Eloriel]

33. I'll never forget her speech on the floor of the Senate

Of course, it was not dssimilar from a couple of other speeches I saw, including John Kerry's. She listed item after item about why we should't have war with Iraq, and the blithely finished it up by saying, "So that's why I'm voting yes on this Resolution."

:wtf:

I couldn't believe my ears, and my heart simply broke. As I said, she wasn't alone, but that's no excuse.

[Pastiche423]

56. It was at that very moment

that I turned against her. As I was listening to her speech, hope was rising within me that another Dem was going to vote No.

She lost my trust after her late night October 10, 2002 speech. She can not gain it back.

[sasquatch]

8. Great!! Another pink tutu democrat

Why the hell does it feel like I'm cheering for 1919 Black Sox everytime Hillary opens her fucking DLC mouth.

[qanda]

9. Warmongers are not attractive to me

Go away Hillary.

[calico1]

11. She apparently is trying to me more Republican

in order to appeal to swing voters. Big mistake in my opinion. She won't be getting my support with any of the stuff she has been saying lately.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

16. She's more Republican than me...and I am one.

Jeez, I understand WHAT she's doing but WHY is she doing it??? Oh ya, just what we need, more unilateral foreign policy initiatives. Does she really think the far-right people are going to vote for her? There is no chance of that...they hated her and her husband and spent his entire 8 years in office digging up dirt/dissing her.

I thought the Dems were going to provide an alternative to the lunacy in my own party...maybe not?!?!?!:wtf:

[calico1]

26. Ironic, isn't it? More Republican than you!

She needs to get a clue. While the far Right likes to brag that they are taking over the country I think a lot of potential voters don't vote because they really can't see much difference between the parties. People are looking for a real alternative. The Republican Party is infected with enough right wing nutcases. We don't need Democratic neocons too. Please. She keeps this up and she won't even be reelected to her Senate seat.

[kysrsoze]

134. This is exactly why I am absolutely disgusted with politics right now

Other than a few select people, including Dr. Dean, I see nothing but a bunch of sycophantic scumbags, including Ms. Clinton, who devote all their efforts to portraying themselves in a good light for our corporate-owned media. The media has more public influence than the regular citizens. If Hillary is nominated, I likely will not vote or do a write-in.

[Eloriel]

35. Now, now, don't be too hasty

I thought the Dems were going to provide an alternative to the lunacy in my own party...maybe not?!?!?!:wtf:

We've still got Dr. Dean, you know.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

45. I know, you're right...

I do like Dr Dean for his call-it-as-you-see-it honesty about what's going on in this country. But I always respected Hillary for her intelligence and I am troubled by some of the most respected (or most well known) Democrats trying to play, not to the moderates, but the extreme right neocons and theocons. Just a bit nauseating right now...I'll recover.

[Cha]

23. It didn't work for Dems in 2002 AND

it didn't work in 2004..What's it gonna take to teach her a lesson?

[anitar1]

227. I Just Don't Believe That She Can Ever Win, Period.

I would not support her.

[Zhade]

13. How's the PNAC kool-aid, Clinton? Drink up, you imperialist whore!

NT!

[Smarmie Doofus]

17. She endorsed the Iraq mass murder and now she's setting the stage...

for a repeat performance by the barbarians in and around the White House. As for political courage, Clinton is gutless... attacking Iran and Syria is more popular in NY than kissing babies. Also a lot easier than providing insightful leadership: this would require using her office to alert people to the *complexities* of the issues in the middle east. Hillary picks the low road every time.

She's up for reelection in '06. I say ditch her. But someone significant from the mainstream of the party needs to come forward to challenge her in the primary.

[HockeyMom]

20. Keeps talking like this (and about abortion)

she won't even win reelection for the Senate. And I VOTED for her last time.

[NYC]

81. She ran against Rick Lazio.

For that reason, a lot of people voted for her.

[ckramer]

60. Yes, ditch her!

Hillary, you shut up.

[sleepyhead]

141. "more popular in NY than kissing babies"

Don't be so sure about that. Many of us in NY are also becoming disgusted with her.

[Baclava]

18. The Walrus

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together...

[Hardrada]

19. Hilary, guess what?

They have room in the Hague for you too. And your cell is being prepared.

[NNN0LHI]

34. Bullshit!!

We have our own legal system in place to punish war criminals like her when the day comes. And when that day comes I will be celebrating.

Don

[Hardrada]

98. OK, the sooner we get them all arraigned

the better! Where is of no consequence.

[IndianaGreen]

211. And unlike The Hague, we do have the death penalty on the books!

There is nothing like hanging a few war criminals, after a fair trial and proper conviction, to discourage others from following their footsteps.

[meganmonkey]

22. HILLARY IN 2008 !!!!

Made ya look! :P

Just kidding around. I've never been a fan. I know she has a lot of fans around here (not on this thread!) but I don't see what all the fuss is about. She is a politician through and through. This is just another example.

[Name removed]

154. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

215. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

220. Yes, it's a huge "movement".

:eyes:

You can't think of a better comeback than that? Hell, I wasn't even referring to you. Guilty conscience?

[shance]

24. Is there any proof to all this fuel being poured on Syria?

Or is this just a propaganda fed lie so we can commit further murder for oil?

[chlamor]

32. This is mostly about Lebanon

There is a desire to bring "democracy" to Lebanon, must demonize Syria to get Syria out of Lebanon, as punishment?(for what?) so as to bring about the "Cedar" revolution. Demonize-Balkanize-Colonize-Capitalize. Recipe for takeover.

[neweurope]

122. In my mind Lebanon is really all about Syria.

----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to the Hague!

[chlamor]

184. You know I Was Thinking About This Today

and I think my statement is only partially true and therefore partially false. I think the entire situation is interrelated.

[neweurope]

200. On further thinking I agree and therefore I was partially wrong

:)

------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Kool Kitty]

103. Very good question.

After hearing this and all the drooling Ms. Rice is doing about Syria, I was wondering what I missed today. Is there any evidence that Syria was actually involved? Or is this more of the "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction so we have to hurry up and attack them" horseshit that got us into an unnecessary war?

[slaveplanet]

123. NO, But there is pretty good evidence to the contrary

Fintan Dunne had some detailed pictures the other week , clearly the blast originated below street level . The Offical story is CaCa once again...They need it to be a car bomb so they can have a patsy. This huge blast was no car bomb.

Assassins Kill Hariri by Mechanically Detonated One-Ton Bomb
Explosive experts are subscribing to a theory that Hariri was killed by a one-ton charge rigged into underground sewage or city water tubes that was mechanically detonated once his motorcade was spotted by naked eye passing over the bomb, media reports said Wednesday.
This theory explains why the sophisticated jamming systems installed in Hariri's armor-plated limousines had failed to neutralize the bombing and save him had the attack been staged by remote-controlled roadside bombing or a car-bomb driven by a suicide attacker.

The assassination scene abutted a ditch carved 10 days ago for underground public works repairs of the sewage system. Retired army Brig. Gen. Shehadeh Maalouf told the LBCI Tuesday evening that as a seasoned explosives specialist he is inclined to subscribe to the underground mechanically detonated bombing.

"I am not ruling out a remote-controlled roadside bombing or a suicide driver crashing his car-bomb into the motorcade. But the exceptionally huge crater caused by the blast makes me more inclined to the underground tunnel theory," Maalouf said.

Every five-meter part of a sewage or water tube can take 500 kilograms of explosives, other experts say. Opposition sources at Koreitem told Naharnet that experts of Hariri's Oger company were convinced that between a 1,000 and 1,500 kilograms of T-4 high-powered explosives were used in the assassination.


Beirut, Updated 17 Feb 05, 17:18

[Zhade]

155. Proof? Evidence? Innocent before proven guilty?

No, the "Dem" war whores on this thread don't believe in these just, democratic things.

[expatriot]

25. Dangerous game... trying to out-saber-rattle Bush

[Baclava]

36. Or a prelude?

To her version of..."The Draft"?

[yorkiemommie1]

27. never really trusted her

... no sincerity... too much posturing.

now i'm SURE i do not trust her.

[Matilda]

28. I'm so sad about the change in Hillary Clinton.

In her college days, she was apparently very left-wing. Clearly,
she's taking a pragmatic stand and wants to be seen as one of the
boys - bang, bang, you're dead.

I truly hoped that one day she would be the first woman president
of the U.S., but not any more. I'm so deeply disappointed in her.

[reprobate]

69. She is now a member of the power structure. That's why the change.

She now marches to th tune played by the corporate masters. It happens to about everyone who must beg for money to run an election.

That's what made Dean so different.

[Bridget Burke]

140. In her college days, she supported Goldwater.

Of course, he looks good nowadays, compared to the current crop of "conservatives."

She's got her good points but her bad ones are becoming more noticeable.

[saltpoint]

29. Possibly Sen. Clinton has inside info I don't --

-- but even allowing for that, I don't think an accusation by Condoleeza Rice is sufficient documentation for an accusation of this kind.

Is the Senator angling for campaign donor checks from the pro-Israel demographic, or does she really have the goods on Syria?

I think a real leader would have addressed the need for peace in the Middle East instead of tossing another log on the fire of war.

Shame on Hillary Clinton.

[Zhade]

156. That was the argument for excusing the IWR "yes" votes.

Well, all but the Republican votes for IWR - hypocrites here rail against those votes, but excuse the Dems for voting for the same fucking resolution.

Turns out those of us who opposed the war from before the IWR vote were right, and there was no such "evidence". Had there been, we would have heard it by now.

Fuck this noise. Syria isn't about to bomb this damn country, so why the fuck are we allowing ourselves to get worked up over bullshit accusations from known liars and fascists?

Some on this thread (not you) may be too fucking stupid or jingoistic to see the propaganda efforts for what they are, but I know better. There is NO threat from Syria.

[NeoConsSuck]

30. Get a brain, you moran!

You can't win any red state votes until you win the Democratic nomination.

And I guarantee, you're not going to get it.

So... STFU.

[Disturbed]

43. Syria's importance to U.S. Capitalists?

Oil pipeline and water flow.

[Zhade]

157. *coughcoughIsraelcoughcough*

NT!

[MisterP]

37. Clinton: "Syria must put the lotion in the *#_$ing basket"

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

41. OMG that was too funny. ROTFLMAO. nt

[MisterP]

64. welcome to DU, ModRepubinPA!

what region of Pennsylvania? (I'm in Nipplefornia)

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

136. Thanks.

I'm in SW PA near Pittsburgh.

[Zhade]

158. "It puts the sanctions on its skin...

...or else it gets the surgical strike again!"

[Rex]

40. So it's Syria and not Iran we attack next

She sounds just like Bush! ACK!

[rfkrfk]

82. my guess would be a blockade

plus a bomb or two on a oil pipeline.
Syria folds in a week.

[peacetalksforall]

42. So this is the person so many of you want for Prez? Me, a decade long

supporter and defender of her, a passionate defender of her, now finding that she wasn't innocent when she voted to support Bush on Phase 1 of the ME takeover. She doesn't speak for me. She has done nothing to redeem herself in my opinion. I want to say something even more harsh. I am furious. I refuse to even consider reading any posts pushing her for Prez. If the right is pushing her, why should anyone here? Is she turning into a Joe?

What has she done to protect our country from the takeover by the right?

[PassingFair]

44. We WANT THE OIL.

We are all supporting a blatant resource grab.
I want to :puke:

[Zhade]

159. You'll notice only the rightwingers push her.

That includes deluded fools in this thread.

[Gloria]

49. I was all set to donate to the DNC in honor of Dean....but after

Clinton and Lieberman lately, I've held back. A fundraiser called today and she agreed with me!!! So did the one I talked to a couple of weeks ago!

I think they're trying to undercut Dean BIGTIME. While I love what he is saying, the DC crowd is turning me off!

[PassingFair]

50. Send your dollars to DFA

So that we can float Progressive Candidates.

[Disturbed]

52. Hill and Bill have been ...

Rethug Lite ever since they lost the Gov. post. They decided then that Rethug Lite is best for them. The Rethugs are the ones pushing for her to run for '08. Do ya need to wonder why that is?

[bpilgrim]

55. but don't you DARE say ANYTHING to impune their IMAGE

then you will see genuine OUTRAGE :evilgrin:

http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

[AndyTiedye]

95. DNC Didn't Spend The Money I Already Sent Them...

...to get Kerry elected and to get more Democrats in Congress.

[gulfcoastliberal]

53. Hillary = Pure Uncut DLC Policy

She's pimping Al From's "muscular foreign policy" of preemptive military intervention the DLC PNACers clamor for.

[Mr.Green93]

54. To win the Presidency

she will have to do things we may not like. It is the end goal that counts.

[bpilgrim]

59. thats what JFK and the DLC said last time...

and the time before... :cry:

http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

96. Third time's the charm?

:shrug:

[neweurope]

121. "The end goal that counts" - bomb other countries in order to win a

presidency in the US?

--------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The hague!

[The Stranger]

146. Wrong. There is this gentleman (though not so gentle) named Howard Dean.

He showed the way. This moron is history. Find her a college position somewhere.

[raccoon]

147. She doesn't have a snowball's chance anyway

to win the presidency. Lots of people wouldn't vote for her simply because she's a smart woman.

I wouldn't vote for her either, but not for that reason.

[Zhade]

161. Thankfully, she will NEVER win a democratic primary.

If the DLC decides to undercut the other candidates by colluding with the media and the rightwing, then she might squeak by...to lose huge in the election wherein I and many others will refuse to vote for her.

We're lucky she'll never get close to the nom.

[torque]

57. So whats new?

We already knew Clinton as a corporate dem. A corporate fascist, gas & oil military industrial complex whore!

[Zhade]

162. Consider it an education for those who foolishly think otherwise.

NT!

[ckramer]

58. Hillary behaves like a rightwinger lately

Or maybe she is a rightwinger in the closet.

[bpilgrim]

61. nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! she's a CENTRIST, hello

it's ALL in our HEADS!!!

http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

[dolstein]

71. Sorry, but this doesn't make her a rightwinger

A lot of leftwingers believe that everyone who doesn't hold their views must be a rightwinger. As long as the far left continues to believe that, they'll remain in the political wilderness.

[bpilgrim]

80. DEAN

put that in your DLC pipe and inhale, deeply...

exhale...

now, tell us dolstein... how far out in the political wilderness is he?

the tired straw-man "A lot of left-wingers believe that everyone who doesn't hold their views must be a right-winger" is so juvenile that the only place you hear it these days is coming from either M$MW or the DLC.

betcha you feel'n just like the candle stick makers did at the advent of electricity round here these days ;->


http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

[Zhade]

163. HA! Indeed, he should smoke on that for a while.

DLC got OWNED, baby. Dean, the "far left whacko" the DLC hates, was borne into office on the shoulders of the grassroots.

Here's an extra-special shout of joy for Dean and against the motherfucking corporatist neocon-enabling citizen-screwing DLC...

Fuck you, DLC! Dean won, you lost!

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

165. Bravo!

Dems are a big tent, but you guys don't welcome rightwingers and those who sell out citizen's rights like the DLC.

Keep on getting DLCers out of leadership positions, I might just sign up with the Dems again!

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

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[anitar1]

228. If Being A Left Winger Means

supporting social programs for all of the citizens,including good schools for our children and help for the poor and homeless, then I will always be a leftie! I believe that a fair portion of the tax monies we pay should go for these things. Otherwise we are slaves ,working to support scumbags and fill their pockets ,while we becomeweaker by the day. I do not understand how anyone can just drink the koolaid and refuse to see what the Pukes are doing to this country. I will never lean right. RW's are mean , crooked people.When did people start thinking that we do not deserve anything.Plain Stupid thinking.So, we are supposed to just gfo along with the DLC, which has sold us down the river? Clinton sucks--

[Chicago Democrat]

62. This is not my presidential candidate... either

Hillary you suck

[Gyre]

63. I haven't changed MY opinion.

She's cut from the same cloth as Lieberman and any number of DLC centrist (they're not really, since there's nothing to the right) pols. Opportunists. Machiavellian. Not for me.

Gyre

[Rockerdem]

66. She thinks that this will be popular

She has calculated the Iraq will be wrapped up by 2007, if not sooner. And that the Middle East will be in better shape, more democratic etc. And that Syria is everybody's boogieman.

I think the battery in her calculator is dead, to be perfectly honest.

[Sterling]

229. I think she is one some serious meds. I think a lot of pols are.

She has that zoloft haze in her eyes like Bush and Pickles do. So yes she is literally drinking the coolaid.

[mmonk]

68. Everybody wants to be a bombastic hawk

when its popular.

[springhill]

72. She along with many other democrats........

subscribe to the PNAC venture, they just don't say it. Judge them by their deeds, however, and they have PNAC written all over them.

[robbedvoter]

133. Entire congress - most Dems voted for Syria accountability Act - Kerry

sponsored it and W mentioned it in his SOTU. This one is in the bag.

[Name removed]

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[dolstein]

70. Wow, a Democrat with balls -- and a woman no less!

It's good to hear that there are still Democrats out there who think the U.S. should take a hard line against states that support terrorism. The people who argued against invading Iraq might have had a little more credibility if they were willing to support military action against countries like Syria that have been backing terrorist groups for years.

[Name removed]

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[aikido15]

91. It's not just the Clintons

The have ALL sold out to corporate power and greed. Every single one of them.

Time for a 3rd political party, I really see no other choice.

[PunkPop]

78. Advocates for peace

would have a little more credibility if they called for more war?

That makes a lot of sense.

[Name removed]

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[Hardrada]

100. You guys

and what army?

[slaveplanet]

104. Beirut bombing was inside job

Clearly Senator Clinton should reserve judgment until this is all hashed out....the official story of a car bomb doesn't wash, the accused is a mere patsy.

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/0/650529BE95AB7D70C2256FAA002EFB76?OpenDocument

[rooboy]

109. And the people who argued FOR the Iraq invasion...

might have a little credibility if they could produce the PROOF that they claimed to have. Of course, it's interesting that Sen. Clinton provides no proof for this little proposal either.

[Zhade]

170. Interesting that Dolstein STILL won't admit to being wrong on the war.

NT!

[Name removed]

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[William Bloode]

128. No,

If she had real "balls" ( i prefer intestinal fortitude, balls is just so sexist) she would do whats right, not what she thinks will help her in 2008. She is a sellout plain and simple, you don't defeat the opposition by becoming more like them.

[mmonk]

131. Syria's hold on Lebanon

was becoming increasingly doomed to begin with. Opposition to the pro-Syrian government was going to finally get its way anyway. With the prodding of the US and France, it was going to be a certainty. This would happen without the Iraq invasion as would the elections in Egypt. The elections in Egypt were 25 years in the making, just ask the democracy groups there. You can be for the Syrians getting out of Lebanon (as I am) without being for the PNAC doctrine of an empire of bases and forced privitization of middle eastern oil reserves which causes blowback aimed at us. You can be for elimination of Iranian sponsored terrorism without being for invasion or bombing campaigns as a first resort doctrine. You can be against terrorism without a system of torture camps or removal of the writ of habeus corpus or watering down the bill of rights.

[frictionlessO]

149. Exactly!! Thank you!!

Anyone who wants to tell the anti Iraq war people that more people would have listened to us if we werent so anti war all the time, can continue to sit in thier hot tubs full of Koolaid.

[Zhade]

171. Maybe Dolstein sees it as a two-fer.

I don't know if Dolstein has ever denounced PNAC, in fact.

[Name removed]

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[kysrsoze]

137. It's good to hear that there are still Democrats out there who...

blindly follow what their entrenched leaders tell them. Have we heard any proof that Syria was involved in that initial bombing? It's this type of unquestioning attitude that got us where we are now.

[shance]

167. Dolstein, go live in Iraq or Syria if you are a fan of promoting death.

Because that is exactly what you are advocating.

Terrorism MY ASS. More like Grand theft.

[Zhade]

206. I doubt he'd do that. Hypocrisy is not only a Republican fault.

NT!

[Name removed]

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[IndianaGreen]

212. The US is the biggest terrorist country in the world, and Bush is the head

terrorist! Bush and his enablers have murdered more innocent people in the last 5 years than Bin Laden and all the other Middle East terrorists have killed during their entire criminal careers.

Shame on Hillary, and shame on those that endorse such behaviour!

We certainly got our Hitler, and Hillary is turning out to be another Magda Goebbels!

[Darranar]

77. "Syrians' aggressive posture"....

Wait... who exactly is calling for harsher punishment here?

Who exactly has been threatening war since almost immediately after the aggression against Iraq?

[Ilsa]

79. That does it. I'm done with her.

She's a warmongerer like the rest of them. I would hope that a woman would have a more tempered approach to killing other living beings, but I'm not sure she's a woman anymore; she's a warmongerer.

[OneBlueSky]

83. she's my senator . . . I voted for her . . .

but if she keeps this shit up, she'll lose my vote when she runs for re-election . . . and I think Hillary in 2008 would be a disaster for the Democrats . . .

[PassingFair]

193. Write to her...

call her on this.

[OneBlueSky]

197. already did . . . yesterday . . . thanks, though . . . n/t

.

[DianeG5385]

86. I don't think the Senator is our kind

She grew up republican and converted out of love for Bill. I don't think she was ever a believer and may be DINO. Health care, she tried, but how hard? She is too ready to send us into harms way for political purposes. Not good. I don't know how committed she is, in fact it's clear she's on the Leiberman side of the scale. Not who we would want to nominate, if we care about our country. She may be an amazingly bright politician, but who does she serve?

[Chicago Democrat]

89. We should form a Democratic Peace Party and basically boycott

any Democrat who supports any War. I hate WAR. There is no war, except maybe WWII and Kosovo that was ever worth anything!

[aikido15]

94. The civil war..

was the last one fought for the people, for our civil rights and social justice.

There is a third party, we all just need to support it to bring an end to this industrial war complex called the US Government.

I am so sick of the lies, oppression, corruption, greed, and most of all the WAR.

[Name removed]

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[SOS]

144. She'd "like to hear from you!" LOL!

E-mailing her is like sending an email to the moon.
The constituent doesn't even get an auto-response.
Nothing.

[saigon68]

116. She serves her corporate masters

She is a carpetbagger and will lead to a lot more years of rule by the Neocons who hypnotize the sheep with a call about Gays,God and Guns (author Rove)

[aikido15]

87. THEY ARE ALL WAR MONGERS

Every single politician in Washington. Our government works for big business, not for the people. War=big money, very big money.

The only decent leader in the free world right now is Hugo Chavez. When I feel hopeless because of our corrupt two-party system, I look to Venezuela and what the power of the people have accomplished there. They ousted their government and the Venezuelan military sided with the people! I saw the footage of the army storming the government building and all the right wing assholes came running out! God, what I would pay to see every politician in Washington running for their lives!

That's what we need, a revolution.

Uruguay has now elected the first leftist government in their history also. Brazil and Bolivia have a strong socialist movement, they will be next. South America is turning democratic socialist and I envy them. They actually put people before profit.

Imagine that!

The only answer to capitalist corruption is socialism, period. We have got to stop supporting this two-party insanity, they are ALL CORRUPT!

Let me know when you guys change the name to "democratic socialist underground" will ya?

My days of thinking the Democratic party can be reformed are OVER!

[Trish1168]

188. Now wait a minute......socialism is NOT the answer

I do not want socialism. Europe is very left leaning and quazi socialist, yet their economy grows at a snail's pace. Socialism has not been hugely successful.

There is a BALANCE to strike.

I agree with Lyndon LaRaouche (something I would not have believed a few years ago). But, he advocates a return to the Bretton Woods economy established by FDR (with currency on the gold standard).

The dollar will collapse soon, and then you'll see exactly why the man is right.

For more info, read James Turk's book: The coming collapse of the dollar and how to profit from it

Turk does not necessarily endorse the FDR system, but he does advocate for a gold linked currency.

We need a hybrid system.....where capitalism exists, but with safeguards against excessive corporate power so firmly in place, they can't be undone. We need constitutional amendments and more checks and balances so that crooks like Bush/Cheney can't steal power again.

[98geoduck]

90. Looks like all bets are on a "democratization" of the ME.

She's towing the dem line for what's taking place. I think after watching Jon Stewart tonight, they may be onto something. Having said that, I'm not a fan. But, If something miraculously positive comes out of all the death and carnage in Iraq, Palestine, and Lebanon, I'm all for it. Why do I feel like I'm having Deja vu of Reagan and the wall. It's fucking mind-boggling that two of the most brain dead "president's" can be in place when the largest events (in my lifetime)occur. I also believe in timing is everything.

[anarchy1999]

93. Signed, Sealed and Delivered. The Bush family and Clinton and then

on to the Rockefeller family and so on.

I encourage everyone to get any book you can find written by Gary Allen, my special favorite is "None Dare Call it Conspiracy". I'm considering a "tinfoil hat, wardrobe, dress your home" website? What do you think?

Just kidding.

See all of you tomorrow.

[JackieO]

97. GO HILLARY!!!

TO HELL, THAT IS...

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[2diagnosis]

102. NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!

She wants all the oil pipelines in the Middle East.

[BrightKnight]

175. She is advocating pressure not war!

The French and the EU agree with applying pressure. The Syrians are causing trouble.

[2diagnosis]

183. The Syrians are no danger to

the United States. How can she be saber rattling without the intention to follow through with military strikes if they do not comply with this call? She voted for war when Bush pushed his resolution, even with knowledge of Iraq's capabilities. She wants war and she wants control of the oil reserves in the Middle East.

[Name removed]

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[donheld]

107. Maybe she wants to spank them

:spank:

[pinniped]

110. She drank the Kool-Aid.

.

[rooboy]

112. At least Monica never blew a neocon. n/t

[Name removed]

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[me b zola]

114. I urge punishment for Sen.Clinton

eom

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[chickenscratching]

142. "DEAR FRIEND!!!!" awwwww! n/t

[noonwitch]

127. I don't see where she's calling for military action

A tough stance can mean sanctions, or supporting opposition in those countries, although we should be more careful than Reagan was about who we do business with in that part of the world. Syria and Iran have been sponsoring terrorism for years. If one is a senator of any party, one has to think about the troops stationed in Iraq, which is situated between the two countries. It's one of the responsibilities of the job.

Hillary has my vote in 2008. I think she can win, and I think she'd be a good president.

[Q]

129. We're told about 'intelligence' and 'reasons to believe'...

...that there's evidence somewhere that some country poses a threat to our 'security'. But like Iraq...will the American people ever be shown proof that demands military action? I wouldn't bet on it.

Hillary and her Neocon/Neodem friends apparently think we're too stupid to understand just WHY they keep these things secret. They will attack any country they please and simply expect us to believe and trust that they had the 'right' to do it.

It's clear that the corporate-backed DLC will push Hillary for president in 2008. And if YOU object to this...the DLCers will accuse you of 'hating' Democrats or hurting America for not supporting the Bush/Neocon/Neodem 'war on terrorism'.

[leesa]

130. This woman is as sick as Bush is! I would never vote for this warmonger

She's NOT troubled by Bush's naked aggression, but she's troubled by Syria who is doing nothing compared to the US sponsored terrorism.

[in_cog_ni_to]

132. Oh for crying out loud! What the hell is wrong with her??%$#@

I will NEVER support her for prez. EVER. If she buys into the RW bullshit, she will surely sign on for another damn war. I've had it with Hillary. :grr:

[Name removed]

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[Malva Zebrina]

135. what next?

out of her calculating mouth?

Canada is our enemy and needs to be punished?
Russia is our enemy and needs to be punished?
China is our enemy and needs to be punished?
Iran is our enemy and needs to be attacked?
Syria is our enemy and needs to be attacked--best bet since it is defenseless and we can win that one.
Pakisatan is our enemy and needs to be punished?

to follow in the future maybe--India is our enemy,

Bush and Rice go about aggressively stirring up the US of A enemies list by making the enemy list longer and longer. It sure does keep the 9-11 "revenge" mode going big time with the vengeful Americans and those who think it takes confrontation to establish hegemony, when your leaders do all they can to promote the us vs them attraction. Hillary is jumping on the "new enemy" propaganda to give her presidential run some skates. I think it will all be passe by the time that comes around.

Except for the count the vote bill, I don't hear her say much about the people of the United States.

[primavera]

139. I hope Walt Starr is reading this...

... and all of the others from yesterday's discussion in GDPolitics about how we needed to swallow a few compromises in order to support a candidate who can win. This should come as no shock, people, she is, after all, her husband's wife: she learned how to sell out her party for political expedience at the feet of the master himself. Let this be a lesson: "a few compromises" only lead inevitably to bigger and more dangerous compromises down the road.

[plasticsundance]

143. Did Hillary speak out about the following:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/01/1520252

At least 84 of these detainees were held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn. Some were detained for months under a so-called "hold until cleared" policy. The policy permitted Muslim and Arab non-citizens to be arrested and held in custody until cleared by the FBI.

In 2002, seven plaintiff's filed a class action lawsuit against employees of the Metropolitan Detention Center and the U.S government -- challenging the constitutionality of this policy.

The plaintiffs have also alleged abuse during their time in detention. The New York Daily News ran a major expose on February 20th detailing these allegations, including humiliation, sleep deprivation, physical and sexual abuse. And though the Inspector General at the Justice Department substantiated many of these charges -- the Department has refused to prosecute any officers at the Metropolitan Detention Center.

The Bureau of Prisons did not return our calls when we asked them to comment on the case. And the Justice Department did not respond to our request for information on their investigation.


Another point, define terrorism. Define Justice. Define Democracy. These words are bantered about, with no real inspection of what they mean, or what creates the cause.

I am so goddamn tired of the self-righteous piety coming out of the mouths of my fellow Americans. Americans have a complete lack of curiosity about the world, just like the stooge currently playing president in Washington, and yet, Americans think they can define and dictate the terms for the global stage.

Clean up you own house, America. We have plenty of blood on our hands that have given us our high standards of living, and we do it on credit. :eyes:

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/mar2005/afgh-m02.shtml

A recent United Nations report on social conditions in Afghanistan provides a glimpse of the social reality behind the American media’s talk of a “new democracy” and the supposedly benevolent role of the US government in that country.
A quarter of a century after Washington intervened to support Islamic fundamentalist forces fighting a pro-Soviet government in Kabul, and three years after the American military invaded Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban regime, the war-torn nation ranks 173rd out of 178 countries in the United Nations 2004 Human Development Index. Only a handful of sub-Saharan African nations suffer more wretched conditions.

The survey, Afghanistan, National Human Development Report 2004: Security with a Human Face, was recently released in Kabul. It begins by asserting that the country has not seen any significant “span of stability” over the past two decades—i.e., shortly after the US first intervened in Afghanistan. “Years of conflict and neglect have taken a devastating toll, as measured by dramatic drops in human, social and economic indicators,” the report’s authors write.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,1-1507616,00.html

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/consumer_news/11025247.htm

Nice work, Clinton, now move over and let real leaders arise to take care of that, which you, yes you, have caused.

Wasn't it Albright that said the sanctions upon Iraq that caused the suffering of some 500, 000 was worth it?

[Az_lefty]

148. WTF? Why doesn't she just give Condi a kiss on the cheek?

:puke:

[Delphinus]

151. How'd I miss this last night?

What is she doing? Who does she think she's representing?

[Spirochete]

153. I'm glad to see this

Just keep it up, Hillary. I really don't want to have to worry about you being our 2008 presidential candidate. So keep putting your DLC foot in the both sides of your mouth you talk out of, and I'll rest easier in that respect.

[TOOLZ]

160. A fake to the left! And then right! She sprints down the middle...

to the '08 end zone!

Let's not fall for this shit again!

[BrightKnight]

164. Even the French agree that Syria is causing a lot of trouble.

Syria appears to be supporting the obstructionist in Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, and Lebanon. They are a barrier to a more peaceful, secular and democratic Middle East. Lebanon was once a very cosmopolitan place and they are tying very hard to recover that.

You could argue that this should not be primarily an American problem. We should certainly be applying pressure. The EU is with us on this issue.

I do not like most things about the Bush Iraq policy but I am in favor of a more peaceful and democratic Middle East. I am NOT in favor of invading Syria.

[hollywood926]

174. I agree and Hillary's stance on Syria does not make her a ....

REPUKE. A lot of people on this board have a very limited view of what it means to be a democrat. The fact that we are so quick to turn on our own is what makes us lose elections.

[NNN0LHI]

187. 'All' the French agree that Syria is causing a lot of trouble?

How do you know 'all' the French agree that Syria is causing a lot of trouble? I am not doubting your truthfulness. I am just wondering how you would know something like that.

Don

[BrightKnight]

192. The French government apparently supports applying pressure.

"...Not only was the US unsatisfied with Damascus, but also their long time ally, France. By re-imposing Lahoud, they crossed the lines with their Druze and Sunni allies. The complicated Lebanese labyrinth is now cracking from all sides. Hariri is a main associate of President Chirac of France. Dislodging his political power meant hurting French economic influence. In return, France co-sponsored Resolution 1559 with the United States, while it was and remains the main opponent of Washington in Iraqi affairs. In a sum, Assad lost allies here and there.

Hariri and the other marginalized leaders are after all, shrewd Lebanese politicians. They know the US is determined to remove Syria from Lebanon. They feel that the Lebanese Diaspora is mounting an all out campaign for the liberation of the country, and they witnessed the French U-turn on Syria."


http://www.lebanonwire.com/0410/04102207LW.asp

It is not difficult to find reports like this. The French government apparently supports applying pressure. Given their ties to Syria, this is significant. They would certainly NOT support any military adventures there.

[hansolsen]

166. Hillary has a large constituency in NY who put thIsraeli occupation of the

Holy Lands at the top of their personal agenda. Hillary is predisposed to be against anything that stands in the way of what the supporters of Jewish settlements want. Syria and Iran are seen in these circles as Israel's greatest enemies. Hillary will side with Israel first and ask questions later. That is her track record.

The trouble is, the Israeli Settlers are making unreasonable demands that will someday get a million Americans killed. Unfortunately the leading Dem in the Senate, and Party hopeful for 2008, is all too willing to trade fairness and equity in the Middle East for short term personal gain.

And yes, the Clintons are closet Republicans, DLC insiders, and proud of their roles in passing NAFTA, lowering the Capital Gains tax rate, reforming Welfare, and being leading hawks on the war in Iraq. Why anyone at DU would support Hillary for President is a mystery to me.

[nolabels]

176. Doesn't she want to find the WMD in Iraq first?

The people that voted for that BULL should resign and Bush should be IMPEACHED NOW

Hey you stupid morans go invade these guy's, they even claim to have them :P

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/02/10/nkorea.talks/index.html

Got to love them MORANS :D

[mmonk]

181. Here's something

Punishment?
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/zunes.php?articleid=5017

[yo-yo-ma]

182. there's no proof

of Syria behind the car bomb - and little that Syria would have gained from an action like that - unlike, say the US.

Hilary is just jumping on the band wagon - like so many in her party who just follow the tradewinds of the talking points - it's an unexamined assumption and dove tails into white house propoganda - giving bush another oportunity to "talk tough" - getting the press corps clapping even (just heard it now on NPR). UGH!

[Trish1168]

186. I do NOT support her. She is corporate all the way

She has turned into repuke light.

[BrightKnight]

194. Was her healthcare proposal corporate? -n/t

[Sterling]

233. Yes actually it was very corporate.

That is what complicated and ultimately killed it. Are you new to the party?

[BrightKnight]

238. The Newt Grench-rich gang would have killed anything.

She had a number of proposals. The Newt Grench-Rich gang shot down most them in the nursery. She submitted the most ambitious plan that she thought she could pass. I do not think that any Clinton healthcare bill could have passed at that time.

I am NOT new to the party! I have been voting a straight Democratic ticket since I was old enough to vote in the mid eighties. Questioning someone’s allegiance because you disagree with his or her opinion is a Repug tactic. Perhaps I should be questioning your allegiance.

[yourout]

189. Every Day my support for her dwindles a little more...

I really do not see her as president.

[stepnw1f]

190. Stupid!

[fshrink]

199. C'mon now! It's just reframing! nt

[IndianaGreen]

213. Nazis reframed mass murder as "special treatment"

Hillary is the First Lady of the Fourth Reich!

[Kenergy]

201. I won't vote for her n/t

[Emillereid]

202. She's not winning my vote! Syria's agressive posture??

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. With democrats like her, who need enemies.

[earth mom]

204. Not surprised-I've known for a while now that she's a kool aid drinker-nt

[Seabiscuit]

209. So, Hillary, what's next?

"We need to send a very clear message that we will not tolerate what we believe to be and have reason to know is the continuing support for terrorism that comes out of Syria and Iran."

Fine - I'm sure they read your words and got your message.

So what?

Whatcha gonna do about it?

[IndianaGreen]

210. Hillary is a shill for AIPAC! B*tch!

I will not support this woman if she runs for President, period!

[baron j]

214. I suppose it's better that we found out now, that she is a warmongerer.

Before they try to shove her down our throats as a candidate in 08.

[Spinoza]

221. Yeah

Who would have thought she would move so right-wing, so quickly. Hillary, we miss you. Come back to us!

[Skittles]

218. I am disgusted

absolutely disgusted

[Martin Eden]

225. Baiting a Trap for Bush? (Patrick Buchanan)

This article is about the assasination of Hariri and why it's unlikely Syria was behind it -- not about Hillary.

Nevertheless it's related to this thread, and the old paleocon makes sense here:

http://www.antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=4894

Baiting a Trap for Bush?

by Patrick J. Buchanan

If Syria's Bashar Assad was behind the assassination of ex-Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri of Lebanon, he is, in the edited version of Gen. Tommy Franks' phrase, "the dumbest … man on the planet."

The Beirut car bombing that killed Hariri smashed Assad's hope of any rapprochement with the United States, forced him into a collision with President Bush, united the Lebanese in rage at Damascus and their own pro-Syrian government, and coalesced world pressure on Assad to get his 15,000 troops out of Lebanon.

The blowback from this atrocity, fully predictable, is Syria's isolation. Hence, it makes no sense for Bashar to have done it. Nor is this his style. Unlike his father, Bashar Assad has no history of ordering terror attacks.

Cui bono – Who benefits? – is a question that must ever be asked about Middle Eastern terror. Did those who planned and perpetrated this atrocity seek not only the elimination of the pro-Saudi and pro-American Hariri, but a U.S.-Syria confrontation that immediately followed?
-----------
Read More:
http://www.antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=4894

[Amaya]

230. Not surprised

at all.

[Blue to the bone]

231. Come on guys....drop the "she doesn't have my vote" crapola...

.....we all know damned good and well we'll hold our noses and vote for her when she's up against a Repuke.

Admit it.

[FiveGoodMen]

232. Nope.

If she's the presidential candidate in 2008, she'll lose for sure and it will be a clear sign that the Democratic Party is dead.

[Sterling]

235. Yes that will be the result, not falling in line by the grassroots.

That will definitely be the start of the hot civil war within the party. It won't survive. A splinter party will form or the green party will get a lot of new voters.

I will support Democrats, not all of them however.

[Sterling]

234. Don't count on it.

I really hope that you DLCers are not counting on that this time. For everyone's sake.

[Blue to the bone]

236. Okay then, who's going to knock her out of the primaries? n/t

[primavera]

237. Wow, moderators gone wild

This thread sure has changed a bunch since last I looked, looks like one out of every ten posts has been deleted. Hardcore.

[BrightKnight]

239. To run in 2008 she needs to be seen to have a backbone...

In my humble opinion, Senator Clinton needs to be seen as a strong foreign policy leader. She needs the respect of moderate Republicans to win a general election. I think that she is more than capable of doing this. She is not a meek little cookie baker.

I think that everyone would agree that the Clinton foreign policy was far more measured and enlightened that what we have now.

I do not know if I will support her in the Primaries. I am not going to work against her. It is only a bit of political saber rattling. Is this really worth getting upset about?