Mark Crispin Miller: ELECTION THEFT 2000! A NEW BOMBSHELL!

[DEMActivist]

A remarkable exchange concerning Diebold's voting machines in Volusia County, Florida. On January 17, 2001, Lana Hines, a county
elections official sends out an inquiry as to how Al Gore ended up with a vote-count of -16,022. That's NEGATIVE 16,022 -- which
just happens also to have been the total number of votes cast for various independent and third-party candidates who also ran. (It was
the largest number of such votes cast in Volusia County's history.)

http://markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com/

[Must_B_Free]

1. Al Gore will be our President

when it comes out that he really won, the Repukes will give him his rightful seat in the oval office and blame all of the events Bush's term on Gore.

After all he was really the president, right?

[mbperrin]

2. Dang! Those machines ARE good!

They can tell when you have negative feelings! WOW!

This is why if they get these GD machines in place I won't worry about voting.........

[proud patriot]

3. Great find DEMActivist

Send this out folks ......Holy Moley :wow:

[realFedUp]

4. maybe they can do that with my credit card statement...

I'm sure we haven't heard the last of any of the
Diebold debacles in 2000.

[Dr Fate]

5. Not a "bombshell" until this is discussed in the mainstream media...

...sorry, but until I can discuss this issue in the supermark checkout line, it does not exist.

[DoctorMyEyes]

6. the link is dead

not in your post, but on the blog.

Any chance of getting that corrected?

[DEMActivist]

8. Working on it now

Sent a note to Mark.

In the meantime, here's the correct link:
http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/200101/msg00069.html

[rabid_nerd]

10. Just remove the / after the .html at the end...

nt

[bpilgrim]

20. you should ask him to include the NEW Search Engine Link...

the more eyeballs on this the better ;->
http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

thanks in advance :toast:

peace

[DoctorMyEyes]

27. Thanks!

I appreciate it!


Now, I'm trying to spread the word!

[DEMActivist]

17. Fixed now n/t

[rabid_nerd]

7. I JUST FOUND A MISSING VOTE

First, here's the TOP of the thread mentioned:
http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/200101/msg00061.html


FINDING VOTES: (the initial email mentions Precinct 216 which is in the PDF below from the manual recount page: http://volusia.org/elections/manual.htm )

http://volusia.org/elections/pdf/manual2.pdf

Precinct 213 - Page 7

1st Inspection:
277 Bush
327 Gore
23 Other
8 Questionable
-----------
635 (TOTAL)

After recount:
282 Bush
329 Gore
23 Other
0 Questionable
-----------
634 (TOTAL)

The missing vote is "tallied" to be added to the Other column, but is not.

[rabid_nerd]

11. VP of R&D of Diebold - Is Volusia Co. giving the FULL STORY?

"One concern I’ve had all along is “if” we are getting the full story from Lana."

http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/200101/msg00070.html

[rabid_nerd]

15. HeRe iS tHe INDEX to the thread in question

http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/200101/threads.html#00061

[rabid_nerd]

19. ANOTHER ERROR signed by 7 people?

http://volusia.org/elections/pdf/manual3.pdf

Precinct 301

Dated 111/12/01

1st inspection:
Other 26

+ 26 (error, should've been 0)

After recount:
Other 26

Just two typos - 26+(phantom 26)=26 and 111/12/01

but GODs! 7 people signed this!!!

[KoKo]

9. DemActivist have you and Bev sent your work to him? And, what does this

mean? As a person who tries to read the BBV posts by you and Bev on DU but who finds it all too confusing....how does this revelation tie into the FLA vote. I didn't realize that Election 2000 had any "Touch Screen Machines" run by Diebold......I thought FLA was still using "Punch Cards" and "Optical."

Why does Crispin Miller just throw this out? Is ANYONE in the media "behind the scenes" working on this...........

Can you give some more info aboutwhat you think this little "tidbit" is from Miller? He's been quiet for awhile, and I wondered if he was up to something....like a new book.

Also.....if you or Bev could do a "one page" synopsis of your progress so far for those of us who are completely clueless about all this "Code GEMS" and "Memo's saved in Italy" and all the other posts you've done for those of us who have no idea what you're talking about and why you are so excited about what you're talking about.....it would be really helpfult as an update for us "computer clueless," who want to know.....but it all goes over our heads. :-(

Thanks! It all sounds so good.......but if we can't understand it.....then what can we do to help down the line???

[DEMActivist]

22. Here's a document you can download and review

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/memos/VotingMachines2.5.doc

It's a MSWord doc created by some DUers for distribution.

[KoKo]

45. Thanks. N/T

N/T

[DWright]

35. "Why does Crispin Miller just throw this out?"

KoKo01, MCM has been working his butt off on trying to get this story covered, for months now, albeit largely behind the scenes. It's been one of his major concerns and he's been using all his influence to try to get the story covered. He's yet another BBV hero.

And yes, he has a new book coming out soon, with an accompanying book tour that will include performances of his one man show.

Oh. And Mark Crispin Miller ROCKS!

[Fridays Child]

12. Refresh my memory: did we ever get an official count out of Volusia?

And, if so, was that count corrected for the above KNOWN error?

[Cocoa]

21. they did a hand recount

Gore got a small net gain from it, nowhere near the 16,000 votes, which means if there was fraud, that someone had to manipulate the actual paper ballots as well.

And I think I remember an irregularity involving Volusia and some paper ballots that were in the wrong place. The details slip my mind.

[Junkdrawer]

30. One Edit: Volusia did do a hand recount...

I found several links where, although fought tooth and nail by Baker, Volusia did do a hand recount.

[NashVegas]

33. Volusia Trouble

During the post election controversy, I recall a column where it was noted that in two successive broadcast reports, Volusia lost a SHITLOAD of Gore votes.

FYI, here's the email of question:


From: Lana Hires
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 8:07 AM
To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Cc: Deanie Lowe
Subject: 2000 November Election

Hi Nel, Sophie & Guy (you to John),
I need some answers! Our department is being audited by the County. I have been waiting for someone to give me an explanation as to why Precinct 216 gave Al Gore a minus 16022 when it was uploaded. Will someone please explain this so that I have the information to give the auditor instead of standing here "looking dumb". I would appreciate an explanation on why the memory cards start giving check sum messages. We had this happen in several precincts and one of these precincts managed to get her memory card out of election mode and then back in it, continued to read ballots, not realizing that the 300+ ballots she had read earlier were no longer stored in her memory card . Needless to say when we did our hand count this was discovered.
Any explantations you all can give me will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks bunches,
Lana

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

13. link works

http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/200101/msg00069.html

[quilp]

14. Wouldn't someone notice a "negative" count?

What possible reason could there be to have a machine make a negative calculation in a voting tally? Surely a machine programmed to add would malfunction if required to subtract?

[Kelvin Mace]

43. Actually no.

If the software is adding a positive number to a negative one, this is still an "addition" operation. <s>

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[Melinda]

16. "Needless to say when we did our hand count this was discovered."

http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/200101/msg00061.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Lana Hires
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 8:07 AM
To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Cc: Deanie Lowe
Subject: 2000 November Election

Hi Nel, Sophie & Guy (you to John),
I need some answers! Our department is being audited by the County. I have been waiting for someone to give me an explanation as to why Precinct 216 gave Al Gore a minus 16022 when it was uploaded. Will someone please explain this so that I have the information to give the auditor instead of standing here "looking dumb". I would appreciate an explanation on why the memory cards start giving check sum messages. We had this happen in several
precincts and one of these precincts managed to get her memory card out of election mode and then back in it, continued to read ballots, not realizing that the 300+ ballots she had read earlier were no longer stored in her memory card . Needless to say when we did our hand count this was discovered. Any explantations you all can give me will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks bunches,
Lana
--------------------------------------------

Paper trail? We don't need no steenkin paper trail! :mad:

[sspiderjohn]

18. AAGGGHHH! How do they get away with these things? How?

nm

[aquart]

31. We let them.

The corruption takes over in the small things, while we nobly focussed on the big ones.

[Cocoa]

23. not exactly news

Irregularities were noticed almost immediately in Volusia county. The county and Al Gore sued to delay certification til they had a chance to do a manual recount.


http://www.cnn.com/2000/LAW/11/13/presidential.recount.update.02/

Gore joins lawsuit to extend Florida recount deadline
After joining a lawsuit Monday to extend Florida's vote certification deadline, Vice President Al Gore said the "integrity of our democracy" is at stake

November 13, 2000
Web posted at: 7:19 p.m. EST (0019 GMT)

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (CNN) -- Vice President Al Gore directly entered the post-election legal fray Monday in Florida, joining a county lawsuit to extend Tuesday's deadline to certify election results, a campaign aide said.

Gore joined the lawsuit filed by Volusia County. The Bush campaign had already intervened in that suit, seeking to block any extension of the deadline.

[KAZ]

24. This is war in my book.

They are simply stealing it away, and I am sick of it. Our forefathers are watching, my friends.

[gully]

25. Has anyone else heard that the Bush family owns diebold?

Or has major interests. A friend who voted for Shrub actually told me that.

[pippin]

26. but Walden O'Dell

CEO of Diebold is a big time Republican contributor who "told Republicans in an Aug. 14 fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.''


Note: "deliver the votes"!!

http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=2218&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported

[Kelvin Mace]

44. CEO Wally O'Dell

helped raise a half million for Dick Cheney a few weeks back. He is also "comitted to delivering Ohio" to Bush.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[pippin]

28. More on Diebold

"First of all you need to understand that the voting division of Diebold is a subsidiary. It used to go under the name of Global Elections Systems, out of Mckinney Texas, actually they were out of Canada but they called themselves out of Mckinney, Texas. Debold, what they did was they bought this small company in Texas and kind of, they didn't really merge it in particularly they just let it continue to run in Mckinney,Texas with all its same people, its same software and so forth. But the Diebold company itself is interesting, it does have very strong Republican ties, specifically to the Bush administration. They have a C.E.O. named Wally Odell He is a close crony of Dick Cheney, in fact just recently in July he had Cheney come to his house and he held a fundraiser for Cheney that raised $500,000. They have a board of directors member who is one of the Bush Pioneers. That is a small and elite group that gives huge amounts of money to the presidential campaign. This fellow's name is W.H. Timcan. You may remember that Bush had a trip to Ohio. In this trip indeed who he went to visit was Timkin and toured around in Timkin’s company, of course Timkin is also one of the directors of Diebold. And it just seems – the other thing that we noticed, we put together a spread sheet of the contributions that were made by Diebold and Diebold employees. And they have a really unusual pattern of contributions which ends up funneling literally hundreds of thousands of dollars to a few Republican candidates. Very little to any other party. "

http://www.sweetliberty.blogspot.com/2003_08_10_sweetliberty_archive.html

So the elections can be stolen right at the box!

[Jane Eyre]

29. Not new news

The computer error giving Al Gore a negative tally was noted when the votes were being tallied the first time. There was a particular problem in one of Volusia's precincts (216) having only 585 registered voters when they reported a negative 16,022 Gore votes, 2813 extra Bush votes, and 9,880 for the Socialist Workers candidate. Volusia County was required to do a recount and they did. This was not one of the three counties that Gore asked for a recount because the irregularity in the computer count made it an automatic recount situation. Gore won Volusia County by a significant margin.

The biggest problem that this error caused on election night was that Gore's vote totals started going backwards during the crucial hours when Florida was being declared first for Gore, then for Bush. The vote totals were being watched carefully by VNS, the media and the whole country. Volusia's machines actually started subtracting the votes from Gore's totals during this time! Had the error not been caught in time, Gore would have conceded the race to Bush in the wee hours of the morning and it would have been nearly impossible to retract that concession.

This is definitely an important issue, but it is not new news.

[BevHarris]

32. Incorrect -- what is new about it is the internal memos

which are quite unsatisfactory, as an explanation -- you have the senior programmer at Diebold (then called Global Election Systems) who was admitting that it might be that someone slipped an unauthorized vote tally in there.

Admitting, in other words, that they knew damn well their machines were insecure.

The fact of the negative votes for Gore had been reported, but the memo trail on this -- and there is a set of several memos and replies -- is very disturbing. For example, it refers to uploading the votes from card #0 and then uploading the same votes again with card #3 -- on card #0 the votes were correct, and on card #3 they were all correct EXCEPT for Gore.

Then the memos go on to say that no one can find card #3 now.

[DrBB]

34. I think you missed the point, though

The "news" here--as you say, is NOT the mere fact of the negative 16,022 votes, and given how many are responding in this thread, you are entirely correct in pointing out that this was known early on.

There IS news here, though: the basis of this thread is the Diebold email archive that has recently been published (to Diebold's consternation) across the web, and Mark Miller's discovery of a nice little "gotcha" moment in respect to this (as you point out) already-known error in the Florida voting. No need to rehearse the exchange in this post, but the fact that we have Diebold admitting the result could have been achieved feloniously, using a bogus memory card is significant, I think.

There is always the possibility that the 'second memory card' or 'second upload' came from an un-authorised source.

I for one would dearly like to know what he means by "'second memory card' or 'second upload.'"

[Dudley_DUright]

36. As a resident of Volusia County

I think it is important to point out that we use optical scanner voting machines and the reason we were able to ultimately get the count right (or at least close to right) after all the ridiculous numbers the software was reporting was because we did a hand count of the actual paper ballots. As I recall this procedure also recovered many overvotes that the scanners rejected, but were clear to actual people when they were examined. I recall reading that many precincts had turned off the overvote error catching feature (rejects ballot if overvote present as you try to feed it into the machine). The most important point is if there was not this optical scanner paper ballot trail to examine, the results would have been impossible to reconstruct with any confidence.

[cthrumatrix]

37. oops....commander "bunnypants" might get "ashcan" after Mark.... One

can only "dream" that the news media might clear the air on the interesting report. Validate it..report it...you know...what a journalist does.

Oops I forgot...we lost those freedoms with the theft of the election.

[ParanoidPat]

38. LOL!

I wonder where he heard about this? :evilgrin: :toast:

:kick:

[DEMActivist]

39. Ummm, uhhhh, weeeelll.....

I don't know, maybe he has a DU pipeline, huh? Ya think? :evilgrin:

[ParanoidPat]

40. LOL!

You KNOW what I was thinkin'! :evilgrin:

You could catch these guys standing over a dead body holding a smoking gun and some here would still ask them if they saw what happened! x(

:kick:

[Bushfire]

41. Story picked up on Dean's Blog for America

http://www.deanforum.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=1539

[Eloriel]

42. What's really nice about the MCM pick-up

is that at least among people on the left he has quite a bit of credibility because of his fame.

Eloriel

[Zhade]

48. I sent him an email - I won't trust ANY candidate until they speak on this

NT!

[KoKo]

46. How many counties used the Diebold/Touch Screen in FLA? Seems

unless one could get a lawsuit against Diebold..with irrefutable proof that something happened in Georgia in the Midterms.......thereby opening up Florida all over again.......it doesn't matter, because there's no way to prove that a "memory card" was tampered with. If there aren't e-mails with a definite reference to the card being tossed or tampered with.....how would one ever prove that Florida was the first "test case" for Diebold/Repug tampering?

I always thought something would turn up in Florida sometime.....but figured it would be a box of a thousand votes that someone hid somewhere and the whistleblower would at some point feel guilty enough to come forward. I've felt this in my bones, and never shaken that belief. But, time has passed.....and nothing has popped up....even after the Iraq Invasion which for sure should have turned someone against Bush.....!

Maybe it's the Diebold Factor and not a missing box of votes in someone's basement.......but so hard to prove. And, thats why work to "out" them is so important....as I know you all are trying to do.

[Zhade]

47. Okay, devil's advocate here

(Remember, I took a shot from Diebold, so I'm not standing up for them or anything!)

How do the votes count out? I can't see the distribution. Maybe I'm missing something?