CLARK'S FAST START (Newsweek Poll: Clark Leading!)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

Retired Gen. Wesley Clark may have only entered the presidential race on Thursday, but he is already the Democratic frontrunner, according to a new NEWSWEEK poll.

CLARK WON SUPPORT from 14 percent registered Democrats and democratic leaners, outpacing former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (12 percent), Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman (12 percent), Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry (10 percent) and Missouri Congressman Dick Gephardt (8 percent).

Meanwhile, as Americans focus on the fiscal realities of creating a stable Iraq, President George W. Bush’s approval ratings continue to slide, the poll shows. The president’s approval rating now stands at 51 percent, down 1 point from last week’s poll and from 65 percent on May 1, when major hostilities in Iraq ended.

For the first time in the NEWSWEEK poll, Bush’s approval for his handling of the situation in Iraq has dropped below 50 percent to 46 percent, a 5-point drop from last week. Fifty-six percent of Americans say they think the amount of money being spent in Iraq is too high. And 57 percent of Americans now disapprove of how Bush is handling the economy, an increase of 6 points from only one week ago.

The NEWSWEEK poll was conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates, which interviewed 1,001 adults by telephone on September 18 and 19. The margin of error is plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Americans are divided on whether Clark’s military background gives him an edge in national defense and security issues—40 percent said it made them more confident in his abilities to handle these areas while 42 percent said it didn’t. And more than half—52 percent—said it didn’t matter to them that Clark had never held political office.

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http://www.msnbc.com/news/969441.asp?0cv=KB10

[Uzybone]

1. Liebermans 12%

who are those dems and do they look at the records?

[JoFerret]

34. ....and who will get their votes

when Lieberman drops out?

[SoFlaJets]

47. yea I wonder too

I have yet to meet one walking around democrat who actually would even consider voting for LIEberman-me?I'd vote for Pat Paulsen before him and I ain't even sure if he's still alive

[Lydia Leftcoast]

55. Pat Paulsen's no longer an option

He died a few years ago.

[LastDemInIdaho]

58. Maybe they are the dems watching hamas and arafat get a pass

Hard to tell. I guess we'll know soon.

[Booberdawg]

2. Wow! The BEST news in this ..

For the first time in the NEWSWEEK poll, Bush’s approval for his handling of the situation in Iraq has dropped below 50 percent to 46 percent, a 5-point drop from last week. Fifty-six percent of Americans say they think the amount of money being spent in Iraq is too high. And 57 percent of Americans now disapprove of how Bush is handling the economy, an increase of 6 points from only one week ago.

[_NorCal_D_]

40. Wow,

maybe Americans are finally getting it?
:shrug:

[blm]

3. People react to publicity.

This is not surprising to me in the least.

I'll say that the actual race on the issues is about to begin.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

4. Ayup

Fair statement, I believe.

This debate will be really interesting.

DTH

[IndianaGreen]

5. More like Clark's high water mark!

As witnessed by Clark's contradictory statements on the Iraq war, as more people see Clark as one more candidate, as opposed to a knight in shining armor, Clark's numbers will drop.

Welcome to the fray!

On edit:

Did anyone read Al From's description of Clark as one of his DLC people in Newsweek? Here is excerpt:

Now that Wesley Clark is in the race, could he be the person who can beat George Bush?

I think we’ll find out in the next four or five months. Wes Clark is a very, very talented guy. He’s done stuff with the DLC. He’s a very, very smart guy. But he’s not ever gone through anything like a political campaign. The question for Wes Clark is, when he gets into a very different world, how is he going to do? I don’t think we know the answer to that. But he clearly has expertise in military affairs and foreign policy, which is something that is important to the Democratic Party. I’ve talked to him a little bit about domestic policy. He seems to have a pretty good grasp of issues.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/968206.asp?0cv=KB20

[Skittles]

6. OK I have to ask

what does No to Recall yes to Bustamante mean? Isn't that - waffling?

[Catch22Dem]

9. I agree

I say "No on recall, then turn your ballot in!"

[blm]

19. I'm with you...

That's what Feinstein, Kerry, and Gore said, too.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

20. Why Would You Do That?

That's like leaving chips on the table. Wouldn't Bustamante be better than Arnold?

DTH

[Catch22Dem]

26. I would do it

In order to lend absolutely NO legitimacy to the recall whatsoever. Besides, if I were to actually vote, I think it would be for Arianna.

[KC21304]

38. Here's where I part company with you blm.

Suppose it were two separate elections, first on recall and then on replacement if recall passes. Would you advise Dems to let the Repugs have the second election all to themselves ? I think not. Well they are holding two separate elections, just on the same day. That is the way I see it.


Don't know if I ever participated in a threadjacking before. LOL

[IndianaGreen]

28. What?? Do you have something against Hispanics?

Bustamante will make a better governor than your Anglo candidate who has been a "miserable failure" as governor. Davis's only redeeming quality is that California will be worse off with someone like McClintock or Arnold as governors.

If Davis is recalled, I rather have Bustamante there than to follow the stupid advice given by Feinstein, who was herself a "miserable failure" as Mayor of San Francisco, and end up with a rightwinger as governor.

[DeathvadeR]

33. odelay SA

Why chew be wanting to bring up the race card holmes?

[joeybee12]

41. I personally have nothing against Hispanics...

...but Bustamente is a conniving little toad.

I loathe Bush and have nothing against Caucasians.

Simply having an alternative, he's made beating back the recall more difficult.

I hope Davis survives and Bustamente falls in poltical oblivion where the back-stabbing little rodent belongs.

[LastDemInIdaho]

59. Wow...not voting for someone now means you are a racist?

I've seen it all now.

[TacticalPeek]

16. Entirely possible, given the inherently unknown state of the future.

However, I predict that as more people become more aware of him, his numbers will rise.

So, if this turns out to be his low point (Newsweek), how would you pre-explain that?

[Nicholas_J]

25. Clark was sent in by the DLC and Clinton

To divert what is being called in the DLC Leadership the "Dean Disaster" It seems to be working. Clinton and Clarkgo way back, It was the Pentagon, not Clinton who removed Clark from his position as Nato commander.

Clark has military experience plus is not a Washiinton insider, so he will draw more votes away from Dean than anny other cndidate in the long run, the outsider position carrying more weight than the military.

The INSIDERS are offering their own OUTSIDER.

[arcos]

57. so, you are admitting they gave up on Kerry?

[DeaconBlues]

43. Weren't Clinton and Gore DLC also?

There are a number of issues I wish Bill and Al had been more progressive on, but I'll take them over the current idiot occupant of the White House anyday.

[hayu_lol]

52. You have to remember that Al From insulted the base of the party...

called the left of the party the LIBERAL ELITE. Al From has nothing going for him--for that matter, the DLC has nothing going for it.

[dArKeR]

54. More like Democratic Media Whores. Just read so many reports

'Americans not paying attention to primary' then all of a sudden a guy no one knows becomes the leader within 2 days of announcing.

The media should be investigated on this one!

[southern democrat]

7. Like or not the drafts picking up.

[Robin Hood]

8. Say what you want about Clark,

But he is the man to beat Bush.

[kstewart33]

13. This is GREAT news!

This guy enters the race and five days later, he's leading the pack.

More than anything, this should convince us all of Clark's electability. This guy can beat Bush.

It also speaks volumes about how unimpressed people are with the current group of Dem candidates. They're looking for someone they can strongly support.

[MGKrebs]

27. I agree, kstewart.

If nothing else, it shows us that a lot of people are not particularly impressed with the rest of the field.

Clark has some immediate momentum. Now he must capitalize. I hope he spent all of that waiting time building a team!

[Kahuna]

30. Isn't that after all the mission? To beat bush?...

Gee, I kinda thought is was. :silly:

I'm agreeing with you, not mocking you in case you couldn't tell. :7

[Mackay]

32. Part I of the mission

Part II is restoring civil rights...

Part III is fixing the economy.

Vote for someone who can do all three.

I think many of the Dem candidates can beat Bush in 2004... even with his own constituency, he is a dead man walking. Some of the news stories about his dropping poll numbers, etc. in the past couple of weeks have warmed the cockles of my heart.

[ozone_man]

51. My point as well. Many Dem candidates can beat Bush.

The DLC is offerring up their own candidate (Clark) to do the job. Mine is Dean. I agree with your parts II and III, and I think a civilian candidate with experience as a governor is going to be much better qualified. It's going to be the economy as the number one issue, once they restore our constitutional rights. The Iraq mess will be something that the U.N. can take over and get us the hell out of there.

[goobergunch]

10. IMHO it's name recognition

Clark's been getting a lot of publicity.

[VolcanoJen]

14. That's fair, and it's also what propelled Dean.

Once Newsweek did their cover on Dean, and the national media played catch-up and started giving him heavy coverage, he shot up the polls and immediately became the frontrunner. I thought that was a good thing. I still do. I want these guys at the top, dammit.

There's no such thing as bad good publicity,
Jennifer

[Orangepeel]

11. good for Clark

any publicity that hurts bush is good for all or candidates in the long run.

But, keep in mind that "Democratic leaners" don't vote in primaries. How is he doing in Iowa and New Hampshire among likely caucus/primary voters? That's much more important that this broad based national poll right now.

[goobergunch]

15. Not necessarily

In caucus states like Iowa, only the hard-core Dems will participate. However, New Hampshire has a modified open primary...even independents can vote, and it just takes a few minutes.

[TacticalPeek]

18. "Much more important" is

how he's doing in Dec-Jan in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Also, in Iowa, indies and disaffected R's (there's plenty) could register dem and caucus, I believe.

[VolcanoJen]

23. Far, far too much emphasis is placed on NH and IA.

March 2nd is a much more important primary date. New Hampshire and Iowa will surely weed out a few candidates, but neither state will make or break Dean, Clark, Kerry, Lieberman, and possibly Edwards. The field is too big to allow these two states to determine the nominee, and the frontrunners will still be around come March 2nd, when the following states hold primaries:

California
Connecticut
Georgia
Hawaii
Maryland
Massachusetts
Minnesota
Missouri
New York
Ohio
Rhode Island
Texas
Vermont

Colorado should be on that list, but the primary was abandoned and Dems are now forced to hold their caucus on April 13.

February 3 is another far more important day than NH and IA:

Arizona
Delaware
Missouri
New Mexico
North Dakota
South Carolina
Oklahoma

And don't forget Michigan and Washington, states that hold their primary on February 7.

IMHO, the race will likely be decided on March 2, which is shaping up to be 2004's Super Tuesday.

[TacticalPeek]

31. True, regarding winning the nod.

I guess I was thinking more of Clark maintaining frontcluster status.

And agreed, certainly by Mar 2 its decided; but by mid-Feb there could a clear enough trend and could be enough margin to see the winner.

While I'm confident about this, I still cross my fingers and ask the Lord to preserve us from a convention fight. Seems impossible, except for the possible Clark/Dean dynamic.

Nah.

[Julien Sorel]

46. If it's a convention fight, Clark wins,

unless Dean's numbers have firmed up vis a vis Bush.

Assuming the fight is between Clark and Dean, that is. We seem to forget the other candidates too often here.

[jayson23]

48. Great photo!

I love the photo of General Clark. Where did you get that from?

[Julien Sorel]

60. Thanks!

I made it myself :-) If you want one, I have several more, but the trick is finding the bandwidth to host it. There are sites out there that have free picture hosting available; if you like, let me know and I'll hook you up with a banner ad and you can get it hosted.

[Chomskyite]

49. Agreed

And it's simply because Clark will be able to peel off more Southern states than Dean.

[KC21304]

39. I agree, this system is for the birds.

Has no place in a democracy.

[VolcanoJen]

42. The system works...

... were you being sarcastic, or putting words in my mouth?

The gist of my post was that that too many of us get all wrapped up in Iowa and New Hampshire, when Iowa and New Hampshire are early indicators of a trend, and nothing more.

Until the larger states weigh in, we won't know much. I think South Carolina might bring us an Edwards upset, for example, whereas others may feel he should pack it in if he loses in IA or NH. I live in Ohio, where we used to be foolish enough to hold our primary in June. Realizing our self-imposed irrelevancy, the statehouse finally got its act together and jumped into the Super Tuesday (March 2) frenzy.

I did not intend to diminish the importance of the Iowa Caucus and New Hampshire primary, however; I've always felt the early tests are overemphasized by political watchers.

[KC21304]

50. I wasn't really being sarcastic

so I guess I didn't read your post thoroughly enough and I apologize for that. I do not like this primary system. Too much room for shenanigans.

And states moving their primaries earlier and earlier, there has to be a better way.

I can see this kind of jostling around for county fair dates or sporting events, but this involves picking our Presidential candidates and we surely know now more than ever all that flows from these decisions.

I guess if I don't have a better idea I have no right to complain but I guess this is as good a time as any to let it all out. Thanks for listening.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

56. Remember that Patrick Buchanan and

Paul Tsongas both won New Hampshire and that Pat Robertson won the Iowa Republican caucuses. I don't recall any of them becoming president--although I wouldn't have minded seeing Tsongas in the White House.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

22. Most States, Independents Can Vote, IIRC

So that would OK the Dem-leaners, especially where Bush has zero primary opponent.

DTH

[VolcanoJen]

12. Bring it on, Wesley!

Damn, that's surprising news!! I just thought it would take him a little longer to climb up to the top tier... and lo and behold, less than a week after announcing, he is the top tier.

Wooohoooo! And HUAH! :-)

[fizzana]

17. It's still way too early to tell anything.

A lot of my politically aware friends are still barely aware of the race. By politically aware I mean they always vote Democrat and are aware of the major issues. These polls are somewhat meaningless at this point.

Although I'm backing Clark for the present part of his position in the polls is due to the timing of his announcement and to the fact that he's not a politician.

Of far more significance are the polls on Bush. He's in trouble and the Democrats (that means all the candidates as well as the party itself) have to be relentless in going after him. I don't think either Bush or his team are capable of holding up well if things are slipping away from them so the more we attack, the more they will panic and the more they panic the worse they will look.

[Mackay]

21. This says it all:

"And more than half—52 percent—said it didn’t matter to them that Clark had never held political office. "

So many of Clark's supporters can rattle off his list of medals but what does he really have to offer? There is a lot of fawning over his uniform and nothing else offered in terms of substance... or record.

Once again... should the next president of the United States be someone who has never held political office?

Also, I'd like to debunk the myth that being a general will necessarily make Clark a great president. Generally, one doesn't advance in the military by being an independent thinker. He may be a very capable man. He may or may not have the 'right stuff' but the office of president is not where we should give him his field test. The fact that he thinks any other public office below him should be some indicator of his ego.

I don't necessarily want to believe any of the 'war criminal' threads either. This candidate should be examined for what he is for the moment: a suit. As far as the man and candidate are concerned, that is a great mystery.

I am supporting Dean because I know exactly what I am going to get. Dean may be more conservative than I am, but he's a fighter and is taking Bush head on. He also has a good record, and I find that he is someone who is willing to find solutions and compromise when necessary.

I disagree. The debates won't tell us anything anything about Clark. He has no record. It is easy to say one thing and do the opposite... don't the phrases "Clear Skies", "Patriot Act" sound lovely? Sure, Clark can't be worse than Bush... but to what degree is he better?

Being a great debater, having a great suit, looking great... these may be advantages, but when it comes to choosing a president, the only thing you can trust is a person's record.

[TacticalPeek]

24. Clark will beat Shrub like a rented mule.

fizzana is right: relentless, relentless, relentless.

Kennedy's brethren and sisteren on the Hill need to take up the charge. Where appropriate, maybe be a little more moderate or diplomatic, but whatever the member's area of expertise/interest, war, economy, civil liberties, etc.: pound, pound, pound. Eventually the media has to cover it and it has to get through to some.

"the more they panic the worse they will look", right again, fizzana. This has already yielded the Wilson outing. More to come, fersure.

[Catch22Dem]

29. That's not nice

Why would anyone rent a mule then beat it? ;)

[0007]

35. He meant to say'

The way cheney beats his dick.

[TacticalPeek]

37. aWol does not deserve nice ;-)

As to the why's of mules, you may have to check out Master Ray.

You Live and Learn, Then You Die and Forget It All: Ray Lum's Tales of Horses, Mules, and Men
by William R. Ferris, Ray Lum, Eudora Welty

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385419260/002-2089328-1158434?v=glance

[Kahuna]

36. I imagine Rove, Cheney and Smirk crapped their pants..

upon receiving these results.

Camp Gitmo, here they come!

[VolcanoJen]

44. CNN just reported the Newsweek Poll results

From the report:

"He entered the presidential race late, just three days ago, but that's not hurting former NATO commander Wesley Clark. A new Newsweek magazine Poll of registered democrats and those leaning democrat finds Clark at the front of the pack. He received 14% support, ahead of all the other Democratic contenders. And, in a two-way contest with President Bush, the survey found Clark got 43% support among registered voters, compared with President Bush's 47%. 10% were undecided."

I have to say, the reporter sounded incredulous when she read the "43%" number. I'm incredulous that CNN is touting this rival poll, myself. :-)

[VolcanoJen]

45. LMAO... just found this on eBay

There are numerous eBay sellers offering Clark buttons, stickers, etc... interesting to see how quickly folks can turn his candidacy into a $$$-making opportunity. :-)

[sungkathak]

53. Same value like Bush's 55%

Media is controlled by intelligence. Poll is used to manipulate public's sentiment. Nothing good has Bush done, they still award him a 55%. Now they have a patsy Clark. And give him the lead rate. That's how they play people with poll game.