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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 12:06 PM
Original message
Students at Southern California high school stage mock gay weddings
VICTORVILLE, Calif. (AP) - Eighteen high school students staged mock gay weddings on campus in ceremonies that drew about 50 protesters, including a parent of one of the participants.

The lunchtime "marriages" were organized to mark National Freedom to Marry Day on Saturday and became the latest focal point for controversy at Silverado High School, which has been roiled by fighting between black and Hispanic students.
...
Protesters outside the school huddled under umbrellas in heavy rain, many holding signs reading "I Do Not."
"What I object to is the fact that they're doing it on a school campus," said protester Amy Drake, 32. "You're injecting emotions into the students that don't need to be dealt with."

Jerry Martin, 16, said he was "scared out of my mind" before taking to a stage for the demonstration, adding that he had been threatened with violence before it. He said "it kind of hurt" that his mother took part in the protest.

School officials said they would not interfere with students' right to free speech. Mock heterosexual marriages have been performed at the campus as part of class activities.

http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/12315149p-13179954c.html
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah for the brave 18
and Jerry Martin's mom should have been proud of him instead of protesting her own son. She could have stayed home and showed a little respect for her son, at least. School officials were great for not interfering .
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. Jerry Martin is a brave kid
His mom should be ashamed of herself for protesting her son's courage. If that was my kid I would be so proud of him.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Is this the most appropriate use of school time?
Edited on Sat Feb-12-05 12:30 PM by brainshrub
The AP story left much to be desired. Some questions:

1) Was this a private or public school? (Article implied public, but it's not clear.)

2) If this was a public school, why should a political statement be allowed during school hours?

3) What is the educational purpose of mock heterosexual and homosexual marriages during school hours?

For the record: I'm 100% behind gay marriage.

If this event had been arranged after school hours, I would have no problem with it. This "mock wedding" has set a precedent for the Christians to demand "mock Darwin trials", "mock revivals" and "mock abortions."
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. It wasn't "school time," or school sanctioned--it was lunch time.
This was an action by an extra-curricular school club. If they could, the administration surely would ban this. And, the Christians could have a thing if they wanted too...
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. During lunch time
Article clearly says it's during lunch time. Lunch time is not instructional time - we can't count it toward the minimum pupil/teacher contact time required in state law.

Political statements are protected free speech for high school students. Many court cases on this.

Doesn't have to have an educational purpose. Many non-educational clubs meet during lunch time.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Then I want to know were on campus was it held?
Was the "marriage" performed in in front of the cafeteria? (Many school cafeterias double as a stage.) Was it an outdoors ceremony or in a separate classroom? How many students got "married"?

This AP article lacks a lot of information.

Assuming it didn't take away from class time and no one was forced to attend, the students of Silverado High School should be proud of themselves.

:thumbsup:

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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Doesn't matter
Kids can have non-educational activities and space devoted to them during non-instructional hours. Particularly in the case of a "protest", you would be asking for trouble to deny access to a more public portion of the school (i.e., cafeteria, versus the parking lot in back of the playground). Again, many court cases on this.

I think the article said 18 students participated - 9 "marriages"? Not specific there.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. ummm, gay marriage is not about christianity....its about civic
matters.

the article quoted a christian girl saying she cannot be allowed to bring her bible and preach, so why should the mock marriage thing be allowed? the answer to this is, OF COURSE, preaching from the bible is advocating a specific religion (or two), where gay marriage is a social issue that christians should have no say over, based only on their religion. if gay marriage violates your religion, dont do it.



Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Was it? How do we know?
This is why I have complaints about this particular AP story. So much information was left out that it's impossible for a reasonable citizen to come to a conclusion as to what actually happened at Silverado High School. The article seems to be written to invoke a reaction rather than deliver facts.

Was it a "mock preacher" or a "mock judge" who did the ceremony? If it was a "mock preacher" what's to stop the Christians from having "mock baptism" next week?

If it was a just a lesson in civics and tolerance, then all the participants needed to do was sign a simple piece of paper in a "mock City Hall"... why even have a ceremony in the first place?
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Lautremont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. I like this very Republican sentiment:
"You're injecting emotions into the students that don't need to be dealt with." If you don't like it, don't deal with it. Let it fester until it gets all twisted and rotten and becomes hatred. That's when you end up with a "God Hates Fags" sign in your clawlike hands, shouting hoarse inanities and clutching vainly at any shred of self-respect your loveless heart might once have been able to muster.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. The LAT talked to another protestor
snip>
"It's not that I have a problem that they are doing it on campus — they don't have to do it so publicly," said Therese Shore, whose son Andrew Stading, 17, is a Silverado senior.

She said her son was reprimanded by school officials Friday for wearing a custom-made protest T-shirt bearing slogans such as "Gay is not the way" as well as an obscene slur about homosexuals.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-wedding12feb12,1,4006911.story?coll=la-headlines-california

She's "ok" as long as they stay in the CLOSET? Oh, and as long as her kid can wear t's with obscene slurs. ROFL
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. Such a positive development - the school & the students should be proud
Edited on Sat Feb-12-05 12:43 PM by Nothing Without Hope
I love that the reason given for its acceptability was that fake hetero marriage ceremonies were accepted, so why not? This is exactly right: no big deal, love and marriage are love and marriage. It's the deliberate framing of homosexual love as some looming monster that has made it so useful as a divisive, hate-filled issue by the neocons and fundies. The fact is, it's a perfectly normal, quiet part of life - and that's the way these brave students portrayed it.

Jerry Martin is obviously quite special to set wise priorities so early and to stand by them quietly and firmly, without the fury or histrionics that are sometimes seen in young teens who are "making statements." He's more mature than his mother, which is sad for them both. But gay or straight, he will find true friends and loves, while she is sealing herself away from truth and openness. The contrast with another mother I know about could not be more extreme. I'll post a separate reply with a LTTE that she wrote, the most powerful LTTE I have ever seen.

ed:sp
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. Support at this age can be life-saving - LTTE from mother of a gay son
This LTTE is the most powerful on any subject that I have ever seen. This is because it is right from the heart and in defense of a beloved child. I'll post it here because it shows how important support and acceptance are to young people who are struggling with their sexual orientation and its implications and social consequences. In her case, she was able to prevent her son from suiciding; in how many other cases does the young person kill themselves? Even if they survive, they may decide that there can never be love in their life, that they are some kind of a disgusting monster. It's what this sick society is telling them, after all. They need to hear something different.

Because it's a LTTE (rather than written by an employee of the paper) and because the writer would want as many people as possible to see it, I'll give it in its entirety. Sorry, I don't have the link, but the date and venue are given.

Letter to the Editor
by Sharon Underwood, Sunday, April 30, 2000
from the Valley News (White River Junction, VT/Hanover, NH)

As the mother of a gay son, I've seen firsthand how cruel and misguided people can be.

Many letters have been sent to the Valley News concerning the homosexual menace in Vermont. I am the mother of a gay son and I've taken enough from you good people.

I'm tired of your foolish rhetoric about the "homosexual agenda" and your allegations that accepting homosexuality is the same thing as advocating sex with children. You are cruel and ignorant. You have been robbing me of the joys of motherhood ever since my children were tiny.

My firstborn son started suffering at the hands of the moral little thugs from your moral, upright families from the time he was in the first grade. He was physically and verbally abused from first grade straight through high school because he was perceived to be gay.

He never professed to be gay or had any association with anything gay, but he had the misfortune not to walk or have gestures like the other boys. He was called "fag" incessantly, starting when he was 6.

In high school, while your children were doing what kids that age should be doing, mine labored over a suicide note, drafting and redrafting it to be sure his family knew how much he loved them. My sobbing 17-year-old tore the heart out of me as he choked out that he just couldn't bear to continue living any longer, that he didn't want to be gay and that he couldn't face a life without dignity.

You have the audacity to talk about protecting families and children from the homosexual menace, while you yourselves tear apart families and drive children to despair. I don't know why my son is gay, but I do know that God didn't put him, and millions like him, on this Earth to give you someone to abuse. God gave you brains so that you could think, and it's about time you started doing that.

At the core of all your misguided beliefs is the belief that this could never happen to you, that there is some kind of subculture out there that people have chosen to join. The fact is that if it can happen to my family, it can happen to yours, and you won't get to choose. Whether it is genetic or whether something occurs during a critical time of fetal development, I don't know. I can only tell you with an absolute certainty that it is inborn.

If you want to tout your own morality, you'd best come up with something more substantive than your heterosexuality. You did nothing to earn it; it was given to you. If you disagree, I would be interested in hearing your story, because my own heterosexuality was a blessing I received with no effort whatsoever on my part. It is so woven into the very soul of me that nothing could ever change it. For those of you who reduce sexual orientation to a simple choice, a character issue, a bad habit or something that can be changed by a 10-step program, I'm puzzled. Are you saying that your own sexual orientation is nothing more than something you have chosen, that you could change it at will? If that's not the case, then why would you suggest that someone else can?

A popular theme in your letters is that Vermont has been infiltrated by outsiders. Both sides of my family have lived in Vermont for generations. I am heart and soul a Vermonter, so I'll thank you to stop saying that you are speaking for "true Vermonters."

You invoke the memory of the brave people who have fought on the battlefield for this great country, saying that they didn't give their lives so that the "homosexual agenda "could tear down the principles they died defending. My 83-year-old father fought in some of the most horrific battles of World War II, was wounded and awarded the Purple Heart.

He shakes his head in sadness at the life his grandson has had to live. He says he fought alongside homosexuals in those battles, that they did their part and bothered no one. One of his best friends in the service was gay, and he never knew it until the end, and when he did find out, it mattered not at all. That wasn't the measure of the man.

You religious folk just can't bear the thought that as my son emerges from the hell that was his childhood he might like to find a lifelong companion and have a measure of happiness. It offends your sensibilities that he should request the right to visit that companion in the hospital, to make medical decisions for him or to benefit from tax laws governing inheritance.

How dare he? you say. These outrageous requests would threaten the very existence of your family, would undermine the sanctity of marriage.

You use religion to abdicate your responsibility to be thinking human beings. There are vast numbers of religious people who find your attitudes repugnant. God is not for the privileged majority, and God knows my son has committed no sin.

The deep-thinking author of a letter to the April 12 Valley News who lectures about homosexual sin and tells us about "those of us who have been blessed with the benefits of a religious upbringing" asks: "What ever happened to the idea of striving...to be better human beings than we are?"

Indeed, sir, what ever happened to that?
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Change has come Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. That was beautiful
Thanks for posting.
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dddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. I was so moved by this letter
the last time someone posted it, that I printed it and made several copies for my friends (some gay, mostly straight). I'm tempted to accidentally leave it on the table in the break room at work. It's very powerful, this man should be as proud of his mother as she obviously is of him. This woman clearly understands the responsibility of motherhood and the concept of human kindness.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I don't see how anyone can fail to be moved by this letter
and I hope that some people who see it are moved to reconsider their prejudices.

This is the third time I've posted this letter at DU, and I'll continue to post it when it seems appropriate to the subject of a thread. Like you, I have sent it to everyone that I thought would be receptive to it, gay and straight. Many of them have told me that they have in turn sent it to others. If you and others also start posting this letter when appropriate, that's a good thing IMO. The more people who see it, the better. It strikes exactly the right emotional key to make people who have so far not questioned their assumptions think again.

In this thread it also puts across the message of how vital early support is to young people troubled by this issue. We all know how the suicide rate is relatively high in teens. How many of these deaths are related to anguish over their sexual orientation? It's something that people need to consider very seriously.

The point that sexual orientation isn't something that can be chosen or changed is made so clearly in the letter, another of its strengths. It's unbelievable how fundamentally ignorant masses of people in this country are about something so universal and so common. I'm guessing that among men, something like very roughly 1 in 20 are gay (that's what it was found to be in one study done with sheep, too, by the way), which is a HUGE number--please correct me if my guess is wrong. I get the idea that many of the RW wackos have a misperception about that, too, underestimating the proportion of gays in their view of "normal" society.
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Egalia Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. great letter

I'm going to send it around and post it on my blog here in TN. People need all the support they can get during this witch hunt.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Welcome to DU, Egalia!!!
Edited on Sat Feb-12-05 05:59 PM by Nothing Without Hope
You can live in one community in the real world, but you can CHOOSE communities anywhere through the internet. I hope you find this community as great as I have.

:hi:

edited to add: In case you haven't already discovered it, in addition to the Forums and Groups on so many other topics, there's a DU Forum for Tennessee (and for each of the other states). The Tennessee one is here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=179
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is crucial work, as a former gay high school student!
Things are progressing at a rapid pace! This is a formative time in terms of people's ideology, and a pro-gay presence is so important in high schools. It takes a lot of bravery, especially in right-wing areas like that. Notice that the right-wing parents are particularly freaked out that their children mighht have different ideas than them...
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. I wish somebody had gotten in with the protestors
and held up a sign saying "PROTECT MARRIAGE! NO MARRYING BETWEEN RACES!" to prove a point.

And then if another protestor had asked what they were doing, they could have said, "Well marriage was always between a man and a woman of the same race...at least until activist judges changed it."
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. LOL! But I'll bet the humorless RWers there would take it seriously
Many of them actually believe it to this day and profess horror at interracial marriage and even contempt for interracial children. And they'd sure agree that those "activist judges" have to go 'cause they're interfering with "God's work."

Have you noticed how devoid of real humor these RW wackos are? They'd probably slap your hypothetical faux protestor on the back and ask them if they have a spare sign!

But I love your idea.
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. Huh?
Emotions that don't need to be dealt with?

Sweetie, they DO deal with it. On a daily basis. Sorry if that doesn't fit your life plan but hey, get over it.
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LinuxInsurgent Donating Member (475 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
21. those are courageous kids...
I wasn't that courageous at their age...it was in college that I got serious about activism and challenging prevailing attitudes...

My hat tipped to them...and to the protesters...don't you have something better to do than protest outside some school?
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. Jerry Martin:
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
Your mother makes me sick.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
25. Kick for the Saturday night crowd n/t
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