Taser test pig hurt by stun gun, study says

[struggle4progress]

Staff and wire reports
Feb. 11, 2005 12:00 AM

A Department of Defense study of Taser stun guns found evidence of heart damage in a pig that was subjected to multiple shocks from the popular weapon, according to a CBS report.

For months, officials with Taser International have touted the study as proof of the stun gun's safety but said they were prohibited from publishing the full report under orders from the government.

CBS reported that it obtained a study that found that repeated shocks from a Taser stun gun "led to heart damage in pigs." The study found a jump in the enzyme Troponin-T. It also found the pigs had high levels of blood acid, which is a potentially life-threatening condition, CBS reported. <snip>

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0211tasercbs11.html

[liberalnurse]

1. Oh well....

Just another pork chop.

[dusty64]

10. The torturing of a sentient creature.

Ha ha, real fuckin funny!

[hlthe2b]

39. Cruelty is becoming epidemic, it seems...

Our humanity is truly impressive....:(

[LinuxInsurgent]

2. well, look at that.

maybe this explains the death of that Chicago man.

I mean...common sense...shocking someone with 50,000 volts and we are supposed to believe there's absolutely NO HARM to the person's system?

I think there should be a ban on Tasers...it's time to forward these scientific studies to our congressmen and senators...Police are getting to friendly with these weapons.

[liberalnurse]

6. So, tell me what happens when one is shot with a 9 mm?

I heard it is almost a guaranteed fatality....

[thecai]

11. Time To Pack 'Em In!

I agree with LinuxInsurgent. That could very well be what has happened to so many taser victims.
Those tasers need to be abolished from the trigger-happy-police departments.
And I do not appreciate this information being with-held from the public.

[liberalnurse]

12. Okay, then

they go back to shooting the scum bags......kill them quick huh?

The Taster is a great tool. I agree use parameters need to be refined and over time modifications will be applied. I can't tell you how glad I am that the officers have them.The police put their lives on the line every second they clock in to work. I resent your assessment of trigger-happy police....it is far from the truth.

[thecai]

13. I Resent

Trigger-happy police.

[liberalnurse]

15. Ignorance is bliss.

You just have no idea what they face everyday to keep you and I safe. They will protect you and they don't even know you.

[hiley]

18. tasers are an evil tool

they are used on children and all kinds of people that don't deserve it just like pepper spray. Not all cops are capable of hurting people for no good reason but who is there to stop them when it is a bad cop ?

[liberalnurse]

19. Your example is rare.

Not a reasonable example to discount this fantastic tool to maintain control safely.

[thecai]

21. The FBI USED TO Police The Police

It seems it is no longer their "responsibility" ever since 9-11.

[thecai]

20. The HELL You Preach

I know EXACTLY "what they face every day to keep you and I safe". They protect their OWN more than they protect me. And I will continue to help pay their wages, even though "they don't even know" me. But I am thoroughly DISGUSTED with the abuse of powers and authority that so many are involved in.
YOU have no idea what I've witnessed and documented about corrupt and abusive police.

[liberalnurse]

22. With all your ranting and bellowing

crying out for the poor inmate.....prisoner and to what all applies, that policeman would still not even blink to save your life.

Thats a real commitment. Talk is cheap, anybody can do that.....and it shows.... They, the policemen,the ones you ridicule, will embrace your safety. They make the ultimate sacrifice and take the risk.....

[thecai]

24. UPRIGHT Cops Are Heroes

I don't ridicule good cops, I commend them, but the corrupt and the abusive cops are "scum-bags" (quote YOU).
Covering up and enabling police abuse is cheap talk, and worse.

[liberalnurse]

26. I was being sarcastic with the

"scum bags". Your rant on the bad cops is really off topic from the use of the Taser but.....that said; bad employees occur in every work sector and the same with the police force. There is a "use of force" monitoring sytem that is quite effective within the management of police departments. They are all held accountable. The police take their job serious and want to keep it, make a living and be proud of their work. That is the majority....and they deserve respect and have earned it 10 fold.

[thecai]

30. "All Held Accountable"?

I know for a fact THAT'S a deliberate LIE.
I knew you were being sarcastic, and I also know that "scum bags" is a favorite expression of police.
I also know cops want to keep their jobs and some cops will go to ANY length to do so.
My "rant" began with the fact that these tasers are DEADLY, and the police KNOW THAT, yet use them on PEOPLE instead of pigs.

[shanti]

51. why are you so worked up defending this?

got an agenda much? :eyes:

[teryang]

37. I do

I see evidence of it almost daily. Let's face it, some police forces are more professional than others. Generally, the smaller the force, the less professional. There is a police force in our area that is notorious for sadistically treating suspects by calling them degrading names, provoking their anger, and then tasering them repeatedly and laughing about it. They particularly enjoy taunting homosexuals and handicapped.

Some police lie under oath, steal things from suspects, solicit bribes, and use unnecessarily excessive force. The same promotion of brutalism that enables Guantanamo and Abu Graid torture is unleashing these people. Increased poverty and diversion of resources to the military industrial complex and the wealthy is denying judicial resources to curb these excesses.

Don't think it's happening? It's real and coming to your neighborhood soon. Police forces are also reducing their use of video in certain routine arrests for forensic reasons because they don't want to be contradicted by the evidence. The detail in the arrest reports is being reduced so that they can't be impeached by inadvertant disclosures of the truth.

Republican judges don't grant motions to suppress for any reason so as to discourage attorneys from making them as a waste of time. They know that 99.8 per cent of attorneys either don't have time or the money to make that expensive appeal. Appeals are for the wealthy only. Rights violations and police abuse are also selectively applied to societies low ranking, weak and vulnerable.

[thecai]

43. BINGO!

Excellent and totally truthful post, teryang!

[Occulus]

27. Funny...

the only experiences I've ever had with police have been when they've ignored crimes committed against me. With, may I add, proof in the perpetrator's own handwriting that he was the one who stole from me. Not only did the police department not follow up, they dismissed my complaint.

I once had seven officers invade my apartment for a simple noise complaint. One of them nearly broke one of my ribs slamming me up against the wall... after I tried to get his attention by tapping his shoulder with the non-ink end of a ballpoint pen.

Another time, I was jogging down the street and a police car pulled up and started an interrogation on the spot. This was nearly ten years ago.

Police have never, not once, served my interests directly. Each and every time I have ever needed them, ther haven't been there or have ignored me or have in fact acted against me. Sorry- I have very little respect for police in general- particularly the ones in the town where I live, who specifically camp out near the city's gay bars- but not the others- around two o'clock.

Serve? Protect? Not around here.

[thecai]

31. Discrimination

Pure and simple. And far too common.
I'm sorry to hear about that, kgfnally.

These deadly tasers are being misused and abused by those paid to protect us. The government did not want the public to know how dangerous they are. They gave a pig heart DAMAGE, and they have killed dozens and dozens of people.

[jilln]

32. I'm with you 100%

Police may be great for murders and helping at car accidents, but in other situations all I've seen is the "I HAVE ALL THE POWER AND YOU SHUT UP" side...

I've witnessed police at peaceful demonstrations randomly start arresting people, throwing them to the ground and breaking bones. I've seen police use their horses to crowd people up against a wall. I've seen police watch as protesters get assaulted and do nothing about it because the "protesters were asking for it by being there in the first place." I saw a friend get arrested for assaulting a policeman when the policeman RAN INTO HIM with his CAR. One time when I called the police because someone had slashed my tires and left the KNIFE WITH THEIR FINGERPRINT ON IT, the policeman showed up, picked up the knife with his hands and stuffed it in his pockets, saying "They're not gonna print this anyway." Then he talked to me for 4 hours, among other things explaining how at that time of night there are very few police on the streets and it's very dangerous (so why was he wasting time with me??)

I've also seen a policeman arrest a state congressman's brother because the brother was covering a sprinkler with his foot. The policeman told him to take his foot off and the guy said it would spray the policeman if he did. The policeman insisted, the brother complied, and when the cop got soaked, he arrested the guy for ... ASSAULT!

In any case, I don't know why you're arguing with liberalnurse... the first comment of "oh well another pork chop" should have told you all you needed to know about that person.

[liberalnurse]

62. Chillynurse and I were goofing around.

"In any case, I don't know why you're arguing with liberalnurse... the first comment of "oh well another pork chop" should have told you all you needed to know about that person."

[Unforgiven]

16. Oh Yea

"the taser is a great tool"

Good, then lets hook you up for a couple of jolts.

I'll take my chances with pepper spray or tear gas long before any contact by taser.

If you have to pull a taser to control someone they had better be pointing a gun at a cop.

[liberalnurse]

17. If that individual is pointing a gun

then they won't have to worry about a Taser sting...... That kicks things up a notch....Shoot to kill.

[Occulus]

29. If the standard for me is

"Innocent until proven guilty", but the cops have the guns and the tasers, then as far as corruption and the "crooked cop" angle goes... police are guilty until they prove they are a good cop.

Always, always always assume the police will run roughshod over your rights until they prove differently. They are not on your side, and contrary to popular belief, no cop ever assumes that the people they are arresting are innocent.

Why should we assume the same of them?

[struggle4progress]

33. Arizona's considering a bill that would allow police to shoot to kill ...

... anyone who pointed a Taser at THEM ...

[liberalnurse]

46. I understand the rationale......

Look at it this way....The officer is armed with a lethal firearm. If you disable the officer via a Taser assault then the firearm can be taken by the assailant and the officer shot fatally with his/her own sidearm weapon. That is just the beginning....You could be next in this scenario.

[struggle4progress]

55. Gotta link?

[liberalnurse]

61. Link to what?

Common sense tells you if the officer is disabled he is thus vulnerable to assult. He carrys a gun.....his gun can an most likely be taken if he's disabled.

snip> from your post......

... "anyone who pointed a Taser at THEM" ...


Many officers have lost their lives when their weapons were taken by the purps. A Taser carried and displayed by an individual in a potientially criminal act says only one thing....they will use it.

[struggle4progress]

65. So your view is that a Taser pointed at a police office IS a deadly ...

... threat, but a Taser pointed at anyone else is NOT?

[liberalnurse]

67. You noted in the Arizona

legislation:

" anyone who pointed a Taser at THEM ..."

Yes, a Taser pointed at a police officer is considered a threat to that officer. Absolutely. I support the legislation.

[struggle4progress]

69. Anyone who points a taser at anyone with a gun could be legitimately ...

... shot under the theory you expound?

[chillynurse]

71. Dah....yea,

if it is an officer of the law who is on duty, with a side arm...the officer better shoot the bastard first!

[struggle4progress]

72. My question is whether the logic is general.

[thecai]

23. Spoken Like A Corrupt Cop...

Words like "scum bags", knowing full well that corrupt LE are the most dangerous criminals of ALL "scum bags".
You should know, "liberalnurse", the first thing taught in the police academy is "just because they are a cop, it doesn't mean they are a good cop".

[tlcandie]

36. I have a son who is a police officer...

I want taser guns STOPPED! Yes, I do know what they go through day in and day out! If they were used ONLY for instances where a gun would have otherwise have been used...as in fear of being shot or killed...that I MIGHT agree with.

But that is NOT how they are being used. Anyone who can not see the difference is living in denial.

[liberalnurse]

41. Tell me, what does your son say

about the Taser? Is he a field officer or desk officer?

[tlcandie]

57. What does he say?

He's in the field and he is not the same as he was before becoming a police officer.

He's copped out, if you get my drift. The nice emotional, sensitive young man is now a cynic who loves all the things stereotyped about police... fast cars, lots of weapons, force, etc.

I would NOT want him armed with a taser. If he looses his life due to a gun instead of a taser, then that is the chance he took signing up to be a police officer. Same as military.

I love him dearly and would miss him so much, but his safety, IMO, is not more important than another human beings at the risk of running rough-shod over other beings. IMO, we are ALL created equal and police officers are NOT any more precious than other human beings. They know when they sign-up what the risks are. If they are NOT willing to take those chances w/o unnecessary brutality, harm, injury to citizens, then they need to be in another profession.

Makes me think of firemen. They know full well the dangers inherent in their profession. What would we do if they decided that the fires were just not worth the risk? Again, that is their choice and if they aren't willing to take the risk, then they need a new profession.

EDIT: BTW, I LOVE Maxine!! :+

[thecai]

48. Kudos To The Cops Mom!

If only ALL cops had a Mom with such rationale and human compassion. We'd have LESS trigger-happy and abusive LE.

I wonder, if the pig suffered heart damage by repeated shocks, how many shocks does it take to KILL a human?

[LiberallyInclined]

52. when cops view the taser as a harmless alternative-

they tend to rely on it Too quickly, and Too often-

I say the things should be banned.

[chillynurse]

3. have you....

Have you ever watched CSI. They always have a dead pig decaying laying around some where.

[liberalnurse]

4. Are you saying

they have pickled pigs feet there? I love them with a cold beer.

[chillynurse]

5. not sure...

If they do you would have to bring your own crackers,

[barb162]

7. the poor pig...I hate animal experiments. Shouldda done Rummy!

[VegasWolf]

8. Dang, everyun knows em pigs ain't no people! n/t

[BanzaiBonnie]

9. My first thought

about the title of the thread was, did they mean pigs or "pigs"

Does that mean that all those macho officers who stand there and show how they can "take it" are actually damaging their hearts?

[dsc]

14. There is actually a very valid purpose

in having people who use tasers experience what a taser feels like. It prevents them from using them unless it is necessary for them to do so.

[thecai]

25. Police Acadmy's USED To

With the old stun-guns, cadets would stun each other, it felt no worse than a bee sting. They could still hit their targets after being stunned on the elbow.
These tasers are DEADLY and the Dept. of Defense has KNOWN THAT, for months.

[KittyWampus]

35. Where Does It Say "Deadly". The Study Showed REPEATED Shocks

caused heart damage to a pig.

REPEATED.

[liberalnurse]

42. Thats a good point.

I really have not seen a need to repeat the Taser shock.....typically once is enough to gain control. I do admit, I have not seen that many but the ones I have, they were necessary and effective to defuse a potentially dangerous situation and control a scene. There are obviously issues wherein regaining control may require a repeat Taser shock....I give the decision up to the officer, his/her life is looking into the abyss.

[bvar22]

53. Here are just a few.

"Kohr noted that jailers at the Monroe County jail used a Taser multiple times on Borden."

"Taser contributed to the death of the 26-year-old Lomax, who was repeatedly shocked during a struggle in February."

"Alvarado died after being shot five times with a Taser by Los Angeles police officers in 2002."

"The Hamilton, Ohio, man died in 2001 after being shot twice with a Taser."

"A deputy chief medical examiner in Orange County, Fla., reported that Taser shocks and cocaine contributed to Jones' death in 2002."

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special19/articles/0718taser-main18.html




Alice Green of the Center for Law and Justice said, "They have not been thoroughly researched. They have been shown to be dangerous to certain groups. They can be abused very easily by police officers."


"they're also being used routinely in far less threatening situations -- including against juveniles, pregnant women and people who have already been handcuffed."


"King County sheriff's deputies have fired Tasers at a teenager who ran after not paying a $1.25 bus fare, a 71-year-old man who was arrested for drunken driving and refused to get into a patrol car, and a partially deaf man who couldn't hear deputies ordering him to stop."

"Amnesty International released a report today saying police nationwide are abusing the stun guns, and more than 70 deaths in Taser incidents"

"But King County deputies have shocked at least 10 people who were handcuffed, while Seattle police used the devices on at least three handcuffed people."


"Nearly a third of those hit were jolted two or more times."

"three out of four of those shocked by Seattle police were unarmed. Five of six zapped by King County deputies didn't have weapons,"


"I was in a headlock, face down in the dirt and couldn't breathe. I heard someone say, 'Tase him again,' "

"Olga Rybak was stunned in the back and legs 12 times when she didn't sign an animal-control citation."

"He repeatedly stunned her in front of her young children, leaving welts all over her body,"

"Amnesty International says the devices have been used against people who didn't pose a serious threat, such as unruly schoolchildren, people who don't follow orders and unarmed suspects fleeing the scenes of minor crimes. The report cites cases of the tool being used on a 6-year-old mentally disturbed boy in Miami, a handcuffed 9-year-old girl in Arizona and a partially blind 71-year-old Portland woman."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/201700_taser30.html

[struggle4progress]

56. Suspect hit by Taser on 9 occasions; 41-year-old died 4 hours after ...

... his arrest at art museum
Article published Wednesday, February 2, 2005
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050202/NEWS03/502020361

[thecai]

64. King County Police

Have been proven abusive and corrupt, time and time again. THEY are the ones who inspired me to form an organization opposing corruption and injustice.
Good post, bvar22.

[thecai]

45. That's How Humans Are Killed By Them

REPEATED shocks. The tasers deliver a jolt as often as the cop pushes the button. That is abusive, and unnecessary DEADLY force.

[MADem]

28. Jeez, ya know, my first thought was a flashback to the 70's

...I thought some aging hippie wrote the headline. Back in the day, you dealt with "the man" and you avoided "the pigs" who would pull you over because of yer long hair!!!!!!

Pigs are very bright creatures. I feel sad they had to keep shocking one to get that result. Hell, they shoulda gone to death row, gotten a few volunteers, and then commuted their sentences to life after they had been tortured with consent for however long. They'd probably die of heart disease before their appeals went all the way up....

[struggle4progress]

70. I glad those guys didn't have tasers back then. The whole mood ...

... was ugly.

[randome]

34. "Taser test pig?"

Sounds like Ann Coulter.

[Mend]

38. No cop has ever directly helped me, rendered me assistance

I am no longer young, so we are speaking of many years here, living in big cities and small. I have never had a cop help me in any way, ever. Pig-torturers....sounds about right.

[Raskolnik]

40. Really?

"I have never had a cop help me in any way, ever."

Perhaps you could answer a few questions for me.

Who keeps drunk drivers off the roads you drive on every day? Who is responsible for enforcing the rule of law that protects your house? When you were a kid, who worked to keep you safe from people that would have liked to do you harm?

[Enraged_Ape]

44. That's pretty silly, Mend

How do you imagine your life would have been if there WEREN'T any cops around?

[Mend]

47. Notice my word "directly"

we have had things stolen, we have had our car crashed into, etc....nothing was ever found, the other driver wasn't checked for alcohol, etc. I didn't say cops don't do anything, just that they have never personally helped me in a direct specific way. Plumbers, electricians, firemen, doctors, dentists, lawyers, CPA's, soldiers when in the military, have all been helpful. Hey, what can I tell ya? That is my personal life story for what it is worth.

[liberalnurse]

49. Then why do you conclude your message

addressing cops with such insult?

" have never had a cop help me in any way, ever. Pig-torturers....sounds about right."

You have been blessed to not be a crime victim.......Have you ever thought why that is? If you ever are, who are you going to call, the plumber, a dentist the electrician?

The help has always been there...daily.......you just have not looked.

[thecai]

54. "Blessed To Not Be A Crime Victim"

I've been "cursed" to be a victim of crime, but the police shirked their responsibility and refused to help or investigate, due to discrimination.
I also know victims of POLICE CRIME that even The FBI refuse to help.
Perhaps Officer liberalnurse can explain the "selective responsibility"?

[Raskolnik]

50. Notice that you didn't answer the questions

[Rose Siding]

58. What, they ran out of old ladies, 12 yr olds, and kittens?

[w4rma]

59. A few thoughts. A)Tasers are meant to be a replacement for batons and guns

in the situations that the use of tasers can overlap the use of batons and guns.

B) Knowledge, training and discipline are important
It's important for police to know how tasers negatively affect folks so that they will lean against using tasers.

C) I think some folks take police for granted and make sweeping statments about them all. They should know that these sweeping statements do not help their argument (which should be narrowly directed at a few corrupt or ignorant police - who sometimes do wield a great deal of power within their departments).

[bvar22]

60. Yeah, Thank god for the taser....

...or they would have had to shoot the 81 Year old woman in the wheelchair, or club her senseless with a baton.

[w4rma]

63. That is an example of a poorly informed and trained police officer. See B.

B) Knowledge, training and discipline are important
It's important for police to know how tasers negatively affect folks so that they will lean against using tasers.

These events can be reduced with better training for police officers.

[liberalnurse]

68. Yes, I agree, Taser use parameters need adjusted

and additional training must be developed. It is a new option and it takes time to work out the kinks. I believe that this is the best tool since the invention of the wheel.

[roguevalley]

66. they had an article in my newspaper about these. They not only

tazered pigs dozens of times but anethetized dogs and tazered them all over 200 times each. Now, doesn't that make you proud to be human?