MSNBC Breaking: North Korea acknowledges it has nuclear weapons

[arcos]

No link yet, it's on the top of their webpage.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

[WindRavenX]

1. fuck

oh we are fucked.

[Newsjock]

4. link and story

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/stories/021005dnintnkorea.5b44b.html

Associated Press

SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea's government publicly acknowledged for the first time that it has nuclear weapons, and said the communist state is suspending participation in six-nation talks aimed at getting it to abandon its nuclear ambitions.

"We had already taken the resolute action of pulling out of the (Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty) and have manufactured nukes for self-defense to cope with the Bush administration's evermore undisguised policy to isolate and stifle the DPRK," the North Korean Foreign Ministry said in a statement carried by the official state-run Korean Central News Agency.

The North also said it was "compelled to suspend our participation" in six-nation nuclear talks "for an indefinite period."

[RPM]

78. not even

now we actually have to treat them with some respect.

bet that boils **'s blood

[TXlib]

105. If you consider a 5 Mt spread of 40 kt warheads respect

If we decide to engage them militarily, that's how we'll have to do it.

[Mr_Spock]

86. Not only did we already know this, it's just brinksmanship

Dumbya started this game of silly one-upsmanship, so N. Korea is just playing the game that our swaggering moron in the WH started. Your serve, DUMBYA!!

[Zhade]

108. How so, exactly?

NK wants nukes to avoid being attacked by the United States, which to date has utterly refused NK's request that we sign a non-aggression pact wherein we will not attack them unprovoked.

I'll repeat that: we refused to agree not to attack NK for no reason.

NK wants to prevent that. So, again, how are we fucked? It's not like NK is going to launch with no reason. Kim Jong-Il may be a lot of things, but suicidal is not one of them.

[GRLMGC]

2. Didn't we already know this? nt

[arcos]

8. I think it was known, but they never acknoledged it... nt

[LynnTheDem]

41. NK has been publicly saying they have nukes for going on 4 years now.

I'm totally at a loss as to why this is suddenly, years later, "breaking news" for US State Media!

16 October 2002: North Korea admits to a secret nuclear arms programme.

2003: North Korea warns US it may use nuclear weapons

2004: Minister: North Korea has nuclear deterrent

2004: North Korea claims to have nuclear weapons

[arcos]

51. nope...

"This is the first public claim by North Korea to actually possess nuclear weapons.

In the past, Pyongyang has claimed to have the ability and the right to produce them. U.S. officials said in April 2003 that North Korea claimed in private meetings to having at least one nuclear bomb."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/02/10/nkorea.talks/index.html


Not that CNN is a wonderful news source, but I can't remember any other time when they actually came out and said they had fully functional bombs.

[LynnTheDem]

56. So these articles from 2003 & 2004 where NK says they have nukes...

are what, fake?

April 24, 2003; N. Korea warns US it has nuclear arms

https://registration.miami.com/reg/login.do?url=http://www.miami.com%2Fmld%2Fmiamiherald%2Fnews%2Fworld%2F5700596.htm

2004: Minister: North Korea has nuclear deterrent

North Korea said it has turned the plutonium from 8,000 spent nuclear fuel rods into nuclear weapons to serve as a deterrent against increasing U.S. nuclear threats and to prevent a nuclear war in northeast Asia.

Warning that the danger of war on the Korean peninsula "is snowballing," Vice Foreign Minister Choe Su Hon provided details Monday of the nuclear deterrent that he said North Korea has developed for self-defense.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-09/28/content_378450.htm

[arcos]

65. no, they're not fake...

and the difference is very subtle, but it exists. This is the first time that they publicly have said "we have a weapon"... in the first link, it says:

"North Korea's lead official at nuclear weapons talks in China told a U.S. envoy that his country has nuclear weapons and may test, export or use them depending on U.S. actions, a senior American official said Thursday."

That was not public, although they probably knew and expected it to be leaked.

And in you second link it says:

" "We have already made clear that we have already reprocessed 8,000 wasted fuel rods and transformed them into arms," he said, without elaborating on the kinds or numbers.
When asked if the fuel had been turned into actual weapons, not just weapons-grade material, Choe said, "We declared that we weaponized this." "

It is not clear that the bombs were finished, although it is pretty obvious that they were working on them, and the radioactive material part was ready.

I understand your point, we all knew about this before. This is just a formality, but it an important one nonetheless.

[sandnsea]

58. You are absolutely right

It's always the first time this and the first time that. How can so many people just have collective amnesia on what gets reported. :shrug:

[LynnTheDem]

63. People I can even understand, they have busy lives...but how can MEDIA

have collective amnesia????!!

THAT I do NOT understand!

PRIME example; when AMERICA KICKED the UN weapons inspectors out of Iraq back in '98, the US media reported about it properly then; that AMERICA kicked them out, NOT Hussein.

I have lotsa MSM links to the original articles.

Now compare to every single MSM that for all of 2003, most of 2004, and even now in 2005, report "When SADDAM HUSSEIN KICKED out the UN weapons inspectors..."

And several are by the SAME REPORTERS who in '98 reported it properly as US kicking them out, yet by '03 it's HUSSEIN kicked them out! Do they not bother with ARCHIVES anymore in the media???!!

[sandnsea]

64. Well

I could go the opposite on you and ask what happened to Scott Ritter's story between 1998 and 2002 too. Yes, we pulled the inspectors out; because Saddam was not cooperating. Seems to me he had kicked them out earlier in the year. They finally went back in, they still didn't get total access, and the US pulled them out the last time. Games were played on both sides.

To some extent, the answer is political spin and selective memory. But on something as obvious and recent as N Korea, it's just baffling.

[LynnTheDem]

67. No he never kicked them out.

Who DID kick them out was the American, bush-supporting, rightwingnut, Richard Butler. AGAINST the wishes of the UN.

As for Scott Ritter, have you ever actually read what he said in 1998? NOT what the rightwingnut pundits say he said, but what he REALLY said several times in 1998? And in 2000?

Testimony of Scott Ritter
Former UNSCOM Inspector
Committee on International Relations
Hearing on "Disarming Iraq: The Status of Weapons Inspections"
September 15, 1998

-There are serious problems in the foreign policy of the United States toward Iraq and the necessary inspection, monitoring and verification procedures to ensure that Iraq does not reconstitute its prohibited weapons program.

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/congress/1998_h/ws915981.htm

Transcript of Scott Ritter's Testimony for the May 3, 2000 Congressional Briefing

We have to overcome the concern that exists-and it is a justified concern-what will happen if sanctions are lifted? Will we be not or will we not be empowering this brutal dictatorship that exists in Iraq? Will we not be coddling a dictator and giving him the means of reconstituting the weapons of mass destruction programs I and many others like me struggled so long to rid the world of.

http://tcrnews2.com/ritter.html

Ritter alleges US interfered to hamper Iraqi inspection efforts; 9/3/1998

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/980903/1998090351.html

Ritter was very pro-US-enforced SANCTIONS, to KEEP Iraq from RECONSTITUTING their WMD programs. Not quite the way the rightwingnuttery spins it.

[sandnsea]

68. Yes I have

Selective. Because he also says in that very same testimony that he believed Hussein would have WMD within 6 months without the inspections teams in there. By the time 2002 rolled around, it didn't really matter why the inspectors were out. What mattered was that they needed to go back in. You choose to pull out clips to support your argument instead of taking the whole thing in context.

That's spin and the left is just as guilty of it as the right.

I'm not having this argument again.

[LynnTheDem]

69. That's what I said in my post; he was VERY PRO-SANCTIONS

And inspections.

He said Iraq WOULD HAVE "WMD", IF the sanctions were lifted or IF inspections were stopped.

He also said exactly that in 2003 and in 2004.

As for "selective"; I posted the LINKS to his ENTIRE ACTUAL testimonies 1) because progressives can read the links for themselves without my posting the entire testimony and 2) because it's against copyright to post entire articles.

How is that my "spinning" and "taking out of context"??? What I posted is the ENTIRE GIST of his testimonies, as anyone can clearly see simply by reading the links to his full and actual testimonies that I posted.

NOWHERE in his testimony does he say what rightwingnuts accuse him of saying; that Iraq STILL HAD WMD. He says very clearly they DID NOT have but COULD get IF sanctions & inspections were stopped.

Now how does that contradict what he still says today?

Edited to add info from my weapons expert hubby; he says it's the remark by Ritter in 1998 that "Iraq is not disarmed" that rightwingnuts spin to mean Ritter saying Iraq had WMD. Although Iraq has NO WMD, and even bush & Cabal have been forced publicly to admit Iraq's got no WMD and hasn't had any WMD since the early 1990s, officially Iraq is STILL NOT DISARMED, because until the UN officially closes the books on Iraq, which they cannot do until they go back into Iraq themselves, Iraq will remain, for UN purposes, "NOT DISARMED".


Have a good day. :)

[sandnsea]

102. Here

Iraq, today is not disarmed, and remains an ugly threat to its neighbors and to world peace.

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/congress/1998_h/s980903sr.htm

[LynnTheDem]

112. Read my post above.

Iraq today is STILL not "disarmed" because the UN has not officially closed the books on Iraq.

Until they do so, Iraq officially remains not disarmed.

[sandnsea]

113. And is an ugly threat why?

If all he was talking about was paper work?

[LynnTheDem]

70. dupe

[cliss]

97. They want it to be known.

They want the world to know they have nuclear weapons. Soon, they'll start displaying photos of "the goods".

Expect to see billboards in North Korea showing artistic renditions of "The Peacekeeper", showing nuclear warheads.

Shortly after Iraq was invaded, Kim Jong Il said that the Iraqis were attacked because they "lacked nuclear weapons". He felt that there was a very powerful message there.

No nukes, you're dead. He's doing it as a self-defense measure. Fucking idiots in Washington are going to bring on Armageddon.

"Bring Em On"

[sandnsea]

57. They announce it every 3 months

Then they retract it. Then we discover something. Then they deny it. Then we discover something else. Then they admit that. Then they deny it. Then they announce they have nuclear weapons. And it goes round and round and round.

And who the hell knows what they have. I don't believe any of it anymore. I almost trust the NKoreans and Iranians with nuclear weapons more than I trust Bush.

[okieinpain]

59. well you can guess who will be coming in a close second in th

the new to the nuclear block. funny that this comes right when drudge has bush's picture with "iran don't do it".

hey repugs nobody gives a shit about your tin horn god.

[Rhiannon12866]

82. Yes, we already knew this

Madeline Albright and her team were actively negotiating with them to disarm. But after the Bush* cabal took over, they've completely ignored the problem, like everything else but Iraq, so they've managed to build them up again!:grr:

[pdurod1]

3. Fox -Hype News?

[pdurod1]

9. What News should we listen to anymore?

[Maple]

5. This is probably the 20th time

they've said that.

[moondust]

26. Yes but THIS TIME it must be true.

Without inspectors it may be difficult to verify. Thank George for that.

[Birthmark]

6. Damn that Clenis!

[qanda]

7. All of a sudden

Jeff Gannon doesn't appear so important anymore. :eyes:

[mhr]

10. Bingo - The News Pattern At The White House Is So Transparent

eom

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. For once I think the N. Koreans are on thier own

time line...

they have been from word go, even when they EXPLODED their nuke some six months ago, (October 13th, if memory serves)

[NickB79]

24. It was not a nuke, and to claim it was ignores obvious facts

A nuclear warhead exploding gives off a very distinct seismic pattern unlike anything in nature, and can be detected around the world. If that had been a nuke, every seismic station from N. Korea to France to Mexico would have picked it up and reported it as such. You don't need highly advanced techonology to detect them; the basic principle has remained the same since the 1950's. Furthermore, to create a mushroom cloud, the nuke would have had to have been detonated above-ground. An above-ground nuclear test would have thrown up a plume of radioactive material that atmospheric testing stations throughout Asia would have detected. Japan and China would have gone ballistic if they detected radioactive particles wafting in from N. Korea. To say it had to be a nuke because a mushroom-shaped cloud appeared is to ignore decades of extensive geological and meteorological knowledge.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. yep I know that

still the story sank... wanna bet it was a test, an above ground test? taht is why you did not pick it on seismographs... underground tests do give the signature

You do not announce to the world yuo have them without a test

[NickB79]

52. No, above-ground tests are still detectable on seismic activity

For example, here is an snippet from a website discussing early British atomic tests in Australia:

"The first atomic bomb in the Maralinga series was about equal in power to that which destroyed Hiroshima. The device had been suspended from a 110 metre tower. The most distant seismograph known to have recorded it was at Southern Cross, 1000kms away."

Air-bursted over 300 ft in the air, with a relatively "low" yield (~10-15 kilotons, probably what N. Korea would be working with today) and still recorded on a seismograph 1000 km away. Yet surprisingly, no seismic data anywhere in the world from last year's supposed nuclear test proving it was a nuke?

You might also be interested in this paragraph:

"Unknown to the participants in the Nullabor, on the day of the first 1956 Maralinga test, the National Weather Bureau in Tokyo released a startling report stating that radioactivity over Japan had increased considerably over the past months. There was a suggestion that increases in strontium 90 concentration in atmospheric dust over Japan constituted a hazard to health. The report referred to recent U.S. and Soviet tests of thermonuclear fusion weapons above ground."

Just as I said, above-ground nuclear tests release radioactive particles that can be detected thousands of miles away (in this case, nukes in Siberia and the South Pacific were sending radiation to Japan). There has been no increase in radiation detected over the past few months anywhere in Asia since that explosion.

http://www.allshookup.org/quakes/atomic.htm

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. I'll take the cynical route

and tell you that even if there was, due to who is down wind, you would not hear of it... and by the time it reaches the US and Canada, who might report it, the increase will be almost academic.

Or you truly think China would have gone to the world with this? Or need I remind you of oh Chicken Flu?

[NickB79]

61. How many nations are within 1000 km of N. Korea?

Dozens. Even if the radiological evidence is too diluted to be detected, the seismic vibrations are a sure give-away. Virtually all of them have seismic equipment that can detect a nuclear bomb detonation, as the equipment does not need to be very advanced to do so. Something like a nuke going off is too much to be covered up by any nation, when the tools to detect it can be found on most university campuses and government research stations. Remember that the Ring of Fire is one of the most geologically active, and thus most studied, areas on the face of the Earth for seismic activity. You would have had THOUSANDS of seismographs recording the proof of a nuclear test. That is something that can't be hidden.

Yes, I do think China, Japan, and most other Asian nations would have gone to the world with this if they had proof. All of them are strongly opposed to N. Korea possessing nuclear warheads. If they detect evidence for an atomic test, their only hope of stopping further development is to alert the UN and attempt to broker a peace accord with N. Korea. Simply burying their heads in the sand will not make the nuclear bombs go away, and they know that.

Taking the cynical route is what got us into Iraq in a fruitless search for WMD's. I prefer hard data before jumping to conclusions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. China was on the domiant wings, Japan had

a reason to maybe speak out, maybe not... panic in the streets... and they are not on the prevailing winds either.

The only one who would have squaked was SK and hard.

And alas they were not down wind.. prevailing winds would have taken most of that crap to China and then over the northern hemisphere through poorly populated areas of Russia and then to Alaska and Canada... by the time it reaches both Alaska and Canada the rise could easily be confused with ... solar flares. Granted anybody paying attention and with the intent to report on it, would have and should have...

Look you prefer hard data, did you see the photo of that explosion? If you did, that photo is consistent with a small Hiroshima\ nagasiaki sized device, not anything larger...

[NickB79]

66. The primary means of detection is via seismic monitoring

Again I ask, did any seismic stations record a reading consistant with a nuclear explosion? Not one of the thousands of people monitoring those seismographs would have alerted anyone, or leaked the story? That would be an amazing cover-up, IMO.

And yes, I did see the photos. You may wish to brush up on your knowledge of meteorology; mushroom-shaped clouds can be formed by many means other than nuclear explosions, such as very large conventional explosions and the resulting forest fires. For example, reports of mushroom clouds rising "tens of thousands of feet into the sky" during a bad forest fire in Arizona in 1994: http://www.azstarnet.com/clips/940814-tree-ring-lab.html. Another report of "a plume of white smoke rising like a mushroom cloud over the mountains" in Montana 2000: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/08/21/paradise.besieged.ap/.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Ok ok when they exploded that Shitake Mushroom

some of us said it WAS a nuke....

Some said we had no proof....

Okd uncle kim just told us... hey guess what idiots, your security services could not figure it out, or rather chose to keep you in the dark...

SURPRISE... we are now part of the Nuclear club!

Oh and expect this to quite possibly derail the situation in Iran

[daleo]

18. I remember the mushroom cloud well

Either they are taking advantage of a very convenient natural formation to support a little white lie, or they really were testing a nuke. I recall some diplomats were supposed to go check it out (a Brit and a Swede I think). I never heard any results of that - I guess it fell down the memory hole. I pick "testing a nuke".

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Bingo!

I noted the date in game fiction... for a reason... the rise of the East...

God can I stop writing prophecy?

:-)

[Swamp Rat]

32. HAHAHA!!! NO! prophet nadinbrzezinski!

You must keep writing! :D

I remember the NK :nuke: ... but it was just a firecracker. Nothing to see, move along now...

Hoo hoo hoo! See Buster the Friendlty Nuke in "Fahrenheit 200,000,000!" Hoo hoo hoo!

http://www.markfiore.com/animation/nukes.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. mebbe I should post the apropraite section of the fiction

Remember this IS fiction... we hope

21st Century

The first decade of the 21st Century saw the rise of Sacred Terror, and Japan joining the West was seen as practical. The Nationalists knew that they needed an excuse to remove the limits from deploying the Japanese Defense Forces offensively. This slow chipping at the Constitutional banning of an offensive force was important to their objectives. North Korea’s Nuclear games also forced Japan to build its own defensive shield if imperfect. They knew that Pyongang would be willing to nuke them sooner or later. In time Japan and China would ally themselves out of necessity, as the US was weakened by events in the War on Terror, and by 2025 they would take North Korea down, creating the first colony in the East since the 1900s.

Over the next years Japanese and Chinese forces slowly moved on to take control of the Eastern Pacific basin, and South East Asia. The East Asian Sphere of Development and Cooperation was declared to be a reality by Prime Minister Michi Nagumo on July 17th, 2145. This declaration sent shockwaves across the Western Alliance, and memories of another century rose, as ghosts of a past that many thought was over. Japan also revealed its own extensive Nuclear Arsenal, and China revealed their first Stealth Navy, able to project power across the Pacific. The United States Military was caught by surprise, as they had been fighting that other war, the Sacred War of Terror. The fast mobile and agile special forces teams used as part of the War on Terror were incapable of dealing with this new very real threat. The US Military went into a panic, as it realized that it had been caught off guard.

[Swamp Rat]

48. And Dumbya starts pushing buttons a mile above the Earth as Dick

heads for his bunker.

:nuke: The End. :(

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. The actual story arc starts in 3500

so not quite this is just the explanation of why we ended where we ende,d, but the fluff is full of references to current events, maybe the kids will get it.

But it worst cases a lot of what is going on, thuogh I admit, I am not doing it as well (the wost casing that is) and Armageddon 2089

[Bozita]

12. I smell a request for more $$$ for missile defense

More like a stench.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. I smell a REAL crisis

[Bozita]

22. Yep, it's real. -- Bush has had 48.5 months in office and has done ...

...nothing to contain this nut.

And Condi spent Wednesday going after Iran.

Can you picture a member of Congress voting against a missile defense add-on? After this headline?

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. We are at war with East Asia...

nope it is Eurasia....

War is peace

Ignorance is Strenth

...

[Bozita]

29. Now you've got it

[ROH]

14. BBC News...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4252481.stm

"North Korea is suspending participation in talks over its nuclear programme for an "indefinite period", according to the nation's foreign ministry.

Pyongyang said there was no point in the talks since the US had termed North Korea an "outpost of tyranny".

North Korea also said it had built nuclear weapons for self-defence."

[CoffeeCat]

90. No kidding!!

Why do we engage in silly name calling, when it comes to the world's most dangerous nations?

Does Cognac Rice (drunk on her own power) really think that labeling a nation an "outpost of tyranny" will bring them to the table? Gawd, these people are so damn stupid.

North Korea, according to the * administration, is part of the "axis of evil" AND ALSO an "outpost of tyranny." So....I guess that puts North Korea into its own category: "The Bring it On Outaxis of Post-Tyranny and Evil Wanted Dead or Alive."

I formally declare *, Condi, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfy, Powell, Hastert and Blackwell--the "Octagon of Insanity."

[greeklady]

16. Well, One Thing is For Sure

North Korea would develop Nuclear weapons no matter who was in power, Bush or otherwise. They have always been a loose cannon and always will be.....................

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

55. Not necessarily...

... as Bill Richardson was able to negotiate for Clinton a deal where North Korea would be provided with "cold nuke" reactors for electricity generation in exchange for shutting down the old nuclear reactors which produce plutonium as a by product. The Bush Crime Cabal busted that one right off the bat and Lil Kim responded by kicking out the inspectors and returning to his old nuclear reactors to generate needed electricity, which provides them with.... you guessed it.... more nuclear material capable of use in nuclear weapons.

You can see that North Korea was more or less forced into this stance/reaction out of necessity (energy for the country, industry, etc...) and as they say "when life gives you lemons, make lemonade".

[greeklady]

101. Of course, however

I don't believe that negotiation would have been followed. North Korea was going to have nukes, period.

[saracat]

17. Betcha Iran has them ,too!

What is the difference between us? We are both nations with lunatics with their fingers on the button. And between the two nations , only one has pushed that button.The US 's track record isn't really very good.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Actually I wound not bet that Iran has them

but if N'Korea has them, and they are giving the tech willy nilly...

[countmyvote4real]

23. You are so right abou† that.

Our king george and his freaky GOP supportors scares me much more than North Korea's dear leader.

[Zynx]

98. Unlikely Iran has them yet

They would certainly let us know if they had them.

[GetTheRightVote]

21. We may be in a world of hurt with * the dummy getting all this trouble

brewing up on us. * loves war.

:kick:

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

25. cool anouncement***hope everyone gets nukes just like we have! -even it up

hope Iran has them and Syria gets them.
Party one , party ALL--
We will all realize the value of BALANCE.
Too bad Chimpy Chump--y'aint takin over the world!!

[Azathoth]

30. Not unexpected, but worrying nonetheless

It has become apparent in recent years, particularly in light of Dubya's new doctrine of pre-emptive belligerence, that the only way for a small or rogue state to gain legitimacy is to develop a nuclear capacity. North Korea has been openly working on this for years, and they should have been our primary foreign policy objective from the get-go. Clinton at least tried to arrest their progress. Team Bush has utterly ignored the problem because it doesn't fit into the neocon vision. Now that North Korea is publicly boasting about their nuclear arsenal, its going to be interesting to see how Team Dubya manages to explain why they are continuing to ignore the problem.

[bling bling]

31. North Korea gives Bush's "homerun" SOTU speech the middle finger

Gee, just a few days ago we were bringin' freedom and safety to the WHOLE world and putting an end to tyranny.

Ball's back in your court, Shrubbie.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. RLOL yep, not only to his SOTU

also to his inagural, the boy declared war on the world after all and gave the world a middle finger

[LynnTheDem]

33. NK has been saying they have nukes for the past several years.

And this suddenly is "breaking news"??? Only for US State Media, perhaps. They do seem to be several years behind the rest of the world.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. BBC has it as breaking news

as well

They have sasid for years they were working towards them, and I think they did an above ground test in october

[LynnTheDem]

44. Some old headlines, including BBC; i

16 October 2002: North Korea admits to a secret nuclear arms programme.

2003: North Korea warns US it may use nuclear weapons

2004: Minister: North Korea has nuclear deterrent

2004: North Korea claims to have nuclear weapons

April 24, 2003; N. Korea warns US it has nuclear arms

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/5700596.htm

BBC Timeline, June 2004

October 2002 The US announces that North Korea admitted in their talks to a secret nuclear arms programme.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2604437.stm

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. and in my opinion they tested their device in October of last

year....

I did notice the shitake mushroom was nowhere in the time line

[Vladimir]

35. Tell me something I don't know

;)

[98geoduck]

36. I'm sure Kim won't have problems finding buyers.

[driver8]

38. That's just fucking great!

Ya hear that, shrub?? The North Koreans got them there nuc-u-lar weapons. What are you going to do about it?? Not a damn thing, are you...there ain't no oil in North Korea you hypocrite m-fer!!

[Vladimir]

42. No oil, but plenty of launch sites in good range of Japan...

and that is one risk Shrub ain't gonna take.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. And the west coast, and Hawaii

they have tested missiles...

[Vladimir]

47. Yeah, but they -probably- lack that kind of range for now

still, there is nothing to fear IMO (seriously) becuase the thing is an obvious deterrent.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Hmm tehy do have that kind of range

The guardian had a story a couple years back they found the remains of one in Alaska, admitidley that is the shortest route but....

I agree this is a deterrent, and this will be another cold war.. whoohoo isn't this waht bushie boy wanted and PNAC as well?

[GiovanniC]

76. From the Telegraph:

North Korea missile test brings US within range

[Vladimir]

84. Either that or the 'intelligence' could be trying to scare

everyone. Either way, I still doubt they will use it to strike first...

[keopeli]

40. Breaking News - The Earth is Round

While this is breaking news in the most technical sense by being posted by MSNBC, this is only truly breaking news to the people that aren't willing to spend 5 minutes to learn these things on their own. Anyone who has done a minimal amount of research will know that N.Korea has had WMDs, just as it is obvious that Iran has WMDs from the treachery of certain Pakistanis.

The idea that people have to wait for MSM to validate an idea before it is true is an old paradigm that, thanks to the advent of the internet and the corporatization of the media, no longer applies.

[DrZeeLit]

104. Shell game. SS heats up... NK "tells world" it has WMD. Co-inkydink?

I think not.
Sleight of hand.
Now all these mid-Americans (and look, many posts here) are FREAKED OUT. Just the way Rove wants it.
The more frightened "we" are, the more power "they" need/take/assume.

When will our side learn to stay on message no matter what?

[tedzbear]

43. I'm more frightened of * having his finger on the nuke trigger than...

...North Korea or Iran. And I do believe the rest of the world feels this way too.

[Erika]

46. Absolutely

Bush has to get over this king of the hill fixation. We have neither the money or the troops for him to continue his cowboy act.

[TXlib]

106. Sorry, I don't agree

I'm no fan of Bush, but he's not a mass-murdering dictator.

I believe we need to stop this proliferation BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

Iraq wasn't a real threat. N Korea is. Iran is becoming one.

[solinvictus]

60. This has been textbook North Korea...

During the war, they often held peace negotiations during which they attempted to grab every inch of ground they could. This is the same: talk at the table and stall while having scientists work overtime to develop an effective nuclear warhead.

[teryang]

74. Actually it was the Chinese who did that

the North Korean armed forces were virtually destroyed in the first phase of the Korean conflict. Without the huge army of People's Volunteers fighting for control of North Korea there would not have been any negotiations.

[liberal N proud]

71. Can anyone blame them?

saying it needs the weapons as protection against an increasingly hostile United States.

Under bu$h we have become more hostile, we never attacked a country unprovoked before this shit head.

[DeaconBlues]

72. in a few years Iran will do the same thing

Kim is a maniac, but in this case he is doing the only rational thing. The only thing that seems to prevent American aggression is a nuclear deterrent. Bush has sparked a new age of nuclear proliferation.

[Zech Marquis]

73. here we go folks

North Korea has been making statesments about their nuclear weapons for quite some time, but now..the way * keeps ignoring the danger, the only way to make him take notice might be to actually test one :nuke: BUt the way the MSM is on the BFEE paroll, they might call an actual test"a giant forest fire" or something :eyes:

[jus_the_facts]

75. 690,000 US servicemen to land in Korea in case of war: Seoul.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1211394

SEOUL (AFP) Feb 04, 2005

The United States will deploy some 690,000 military personnel to help defend South Korea in case of an outbreak of war, South Korea's Defense Ministry said in a White Paper released Friday.

The new White Paper, the first in four years, tried to sidestep a political minefield by avoiding naming the enemy US forces might have to fight against.

North Korea is no longer South Korea's "main enemy," a phrase that angered the Stalinist state when it was included in the last White Paper in 2000 and has been left out of this one.

...

The 2004 Defence White Paper said more than 690,000 servicemen in augmentation forces would be brought in to the Korean peninsula in case of an all-out war, including the army, navy, air force, and marine corps units.

http://www.spacewar.com/2005/050204070048.ntjfvqdy.html


:nuke: :nopity:

[teryang]

111. Er, where will they come from?

690,000? That would be more than a third of the current Armed Forces of the US. If typical rotational analysis is used, one third deployed, one third cadre, one third in training, that would mean that we'd have to have at least 2.07 million personnel. We don't. If you include the 150,000 already deployed in Iraq that would yield a necessary manpower level of 2.52 million. Of course this doesn't include any American forces already deployed overseas which would make the necessary manpower needed to sustain this force level even higher.

[applegrove]

77. Powell! Where is Colin Powell?

I need somebody to keep me safe. Rice just doesn't cut it. I am guessing that for a sociopathic Korean (who is likely a misogynyst) Rice doesn't work for him either!!

Perhaps we now know why the big media were so un-interested in the whole Man-Gate thing.

[goodboy]

79. nom. for homepage (nt)

[Rhiannon12866]

80. I heard this on CNN

Does this mean that we're still going to invade Iran?! So many countries with WMDs, so little time!:grr:

[leesa]

81. Poor North Korea. They have been trying so hard to get Dubya's attention.

[rjbny62]

83. it is all part of the script

first Condi comes out with her warning to Iran and then we get these headlines about N Korea to start the buildup of fear, and the MSM plays along. It is all setting the stage for the next war.

[Mr_Spock]

87. Yeah, it's all a first-graders way of running the world. Thanks DUMBYA!!

It's great having a "bring-it-on" type mentality in the WH these days. Waaahhh!! His ****** is bigger than mine!!! WAAAHHH WAAHHHH!!

[Rhiannon12866]

85. Link. CNN. North Korea Claims Nuclear Weapons

Pyongyang pulls out of six-nation talks

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/02/10/nkorea.talks/index.html

[rocktivity]

88. Candidate for this month's "You Call This NEWS?" award

:eyes:
rocknation

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

89. At least it's not Iran...

...Iran hates our freedom!

Okay, we were in this position once, to choose between Iraq and North Korea, and we chose Iraq (probably because they were "easier"). Now we're going after Iran and their "nukes" while North Korea has come out and said, "Yeah, we have them and we will use them." and still nothing is done.

In a way, I'm glad Bush won now, but I also know Kerry would have handled this situation much better.

[David__77]

91. North Korea has every right to defend itself against aggression.

If the US launches a bombing or an invasion on a single square inch of that country, then a response is surely to be expected. North Korea has not attacked, bombarded or encircled the US with its bases and troops. The responsibility for maintaining peace lies squarely on the shoulders of the "sole superpower."

[formerrepuke]

107. Removing our military might defuse it some.

Not that it will happen, but the removal of US troops from the South would ease the North's fears. The South Koreans hate us anyway- and the occasinal tank-crushing-schoolgirl incidents have not exactly endeared our military presence to them. South Korea is a wealthy country by Asian standards and ought to be able and willing to provide for their own defence. Anyone else agree?

[emad]

92. N Korea suspends nuclear talks

BBC
North Korea will stay away from talks on its nuclear programme for an "indefinite period", according to the nation's foreign ministry.

Pyongyang said there was no point in the talks since the US had termed North Korea an "outpost of tyranny".

The North also repeated a claim to have built nuclear weapons for self-defence.

But US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said the communist state would only deepen its international isolation if it pulled out of the talks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4252481.stm

[applegrove]

93. Like they care!!!

[Wright Patman]

94. This is more annoying than anything

to the White House. They did the same thing a couple of years ago and you could tell the only thing that was upsetting to the war criminals in D.C. was that it was taking the focus off the buildup to Iraq and also exposing the hypocrisy of going after "some" nations "with oil" which were only "suspected" of "weapons of mass destruction" when here was North Korea waving same in their face going nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah.

[trapper914]

95. Not just the oil...

...but weaker nations. It's absurd that they threatened Iran yesterday without any proof of nukes, but they talk of "negotiation" and "international isolation" when NK flaunts their nukes. Could it be because NK has over a million trained soldiers, an air force, etc.?

[htuttle]

96. Actually, Iran has those things too

They have over a million trained soldiers (and are capable of fielding many millions more) and a modern airforce (who outperformed the Iraqi air force on every occasion during the Iran-Iraq war).

If they believe that Iran is 'weaker' than North Korea, they are being foolish.

[Laurab]

100. For that matter, we're not having such an easy time

with the "weak" nation we decided to invade. The only really scary thing is that, next to shrub, the other leaders look downright sane. We have more to fear from our fearful "leaders" than we do from anyone else I think.

[hangemhigh]

99. So how will Dubya justify bombing Iran now ?

Oh yeah, I forgot-Terra Attack.

[TomClash]

103. Well that's one country we won't be invading anytime soon!

eom

[FlyByNight]

109. North Korea better be careful or...

the US will attack, uh, Iran. That's it!

:wtf:

[madmark]

110. It is unfucking believable

Its amazing to me that we waste thousands of service men's lives, a half trillion to a trillion dollars, substantial diplomatic capital and good will on a vanity side show without upside (Iraq) while a real threat, North Korea, over the past 4 years has been able to assemble and perfect a nuclear arsenal with impunity. It is unfucking believable.