AP: Kennedy Says Iraq War Case a 'Fraud' (New Thread)

[TennesseeWalker]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030918/ap_on_go_co/kennedy_iraq&cid=512&ncid=1480

The other Kennedy thread is getting way too long to read all the posts. I'm sure it's the energy papers and the Enron Task Force. How much longer before they spring it on the country?

I can't imagine Kennedy would say something like that if he didn't have all his ducks in a row. Who will come out next? I've got to believe Ambassador Wilson is really turning up the heat too. You don't mess with the spooks and get away with it. Not even the Dark Lord Cheney can do that.....

[young_at_heart]

1. Let's hear from other senators too

One can only hope that they will follow Kennedy's lead in this....it's about TIME!

[homelandpunk]

15. Ted waited for the hurricane to take this off the news

Why?
If you confront a bully, the way to do it is not to walk a 100 yards away from the bully, lower your head mutter your piece under your breath, and hope he di not see or hear you.
That is what it reminds me of. Kennedy coulda waited till the hurricane news was out of the cycle. He knew this was a good day to say it, cuz like the bully-badgered wimp, he wants to confront, but is scared to _really_ confront. When he left the interview, he probably was crossing his fingers for the hurricane to be big news.
Why are all the dems such pussies? OK, I can understand him being afraid of bullets, but the rest of 'em? At least Kennedy made an attempt at standing up, though it reminds me of the badgered kid who hasn't found his real courage yet, and pretends to himself that he confronted the bully. It's pathetic that grown, powerful men fear bunnypants....what an embarrassing time for all of us.

[Dr Fate]

35. If he says nothing more, then youll be right...

...but if he continues to fight Bush on this, then you will be incorrect...

I vote we give the man the benefit of the doubt- lets see how it plays out...

[Classical_Liberal]

52. Everyone remember to rate the yahoo article at the bottom of the page

If it is in the top 10 rankings it gets sent out in their news letter.

[ShaneGR]

40. So let me get this straight

All Dems are pussies if they don't say something. All Dems are pussies when they do say something because they know it will be upstaged by another story?

Huh?

[homelandpunk]

49. if they know it is gonna be upstaged

by something "larger", then, yes, it is simply muttering lowly under your breath at the bully, hoping he doesn't REALLY hear you.
He is TED KENNEDY fer chrissake. Do you even doubt this would have been THE Big Story of the day? Ted knows it would have been. And it should have been, but he wanted some cover, so he got something off his chest, but he lowered his head, and muttered under his breath, 100 yards away from the bully on the schoolyard. That is not how you confront. Sorry.
The hurricane was not an IF story, it was certain to blow everything else off of media coverage. And Ted chose that day to drop what WOULD have been the biggest political bomb in decades. Instead, we are here talking about it. As important as it is, it did not reach political juggernaut proportions had Ted only waited a few more days. Face it. It's not that Bush is lucky. "Oh Bush was just lucky the huuricane came the same day." Please. Like Ted was unaware of the hurricane...
Bush's REAL luck is that pussies are the "opposition".

[MinnFats]

2. Paul Wellstone, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

God, but I wish he were still around at times like this.
Imagine what he'd be up to now.
And how pissed the Bushies would be. Remember when Bush I said "Who's this chickenshit?" when Wellstone raised questions about Gulf War I?


(yeah, yeah, I don't even want to think about the implications there. But we should.)

[TennesseeWalker]

3. I never would have considered believing that sort of thing a few years ago

I'm really wondering now. Too much has happened that's way too convenient for the Evildoers in Washington now. History is replete with abuse of power by the leaders of Empire.

I really don't want to believe LIHOP, but it nags at me. The way Clinton was treated, the ridiculous impeachment, the stolen election, PNAC, the need for a "new Pearl Harbor", Osama and Saddam never being caught, the fact that they were all agents of America at one time or another...

I remember I was 9 when I first heard the silly story that FDR let Pearl Harbor happen to mobilize America into getting in WWII. Never believed it for one second....but after all this? Is this the way we've always been ruled?

I don't want to believe LIHOP, and I sure don't want to believe that ANYone could do such a thing....but I'm not completely sure anymore.

[Maple]

5. Food for thot

"The enormous gap between what U.S. leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology." -- Michael Parenti

[maggrwaggr]

24. Tell us more about Michael Parenti

Because that quote hit me pretty hard, it's exactly what I've been realizing in the last month or so.

Can you recommend books by this guy?

[hang a left]

26. YES, me too

[Selwynn]

30. Whoa you don't know MP?

Here's a nice small book by him: Against Empire. It's not happy, but he's pretty dead on.

The only person I appericate more is Noam Chomsky.

[JHB]

42. Parenti Archive:

http://www.michaelparenti.org/

[glitch]

48. and if you want to hear him speak (he's an excellent speaker)

and listen to mp3 search the archives at http://www.radio4all.net/

[hang a left]

10. our true history is sickening!

You know I used to be one of those people who really thought that truth always wins. That justice will be served. But even in my own personal life I have experienced that that is not the case. The bad guys always win, and you don't have a chance unless you fight them at their level. It is a saddening realization.

I have learned so much since coming to DU. There are alot of evil people in this world. You don't realize it, because you don't think like they do. At first you want to go into denial, because it is too awful to accept. But deep down inside there just aren't explanations that will make it go away.

on edit added the word like

[TennesseeWalker]

13. Yep. That was me.

Red pill or blue pill? I think I'd much rather know what's going on and try to stop some of it....

Has anyone read a good book on our "true history"? I know, I know...conspiracy theories...but what if the biggest conspiracy is to make everyone believe that everything's a conspiracy?

[hang a left]

23. I am reading a book now called

Barry and the Boys by Daniel Hopsicker this book is really about Barry Seal a life long CIA pilot and drug smuggler, but it goes through some history of the CIA and it's predecessor OSS. World War II, Cuba in the 50's and 60's, Kennedy Assasination, Watergate, Iran Contra, Mena, Arkansas cocaine scandal, and various other scandals. Talks about the secret government and the CIA's part in that.

I also have a controversial book I am reading also called Rule by Secrecy by Jim Marrs, it is an underground best seller, it is very tin foily by DU standards, but it explains alot about WHY all of this shit has happened. I really have just started my research into secret history. I am sure there are other people here that can help you far better than I.

[LizW]

37. I'm reading Jim Marrs book, too

and it is very tin foilly, and yet his research is so incredibly extensive that I can't help getting caught up in it.

If you want to read some full out tin foil stuff, try William Cooper's underground book Behold a Pale Horse. It is hard to assess the validity of anything Cooper said, seeing as how he was anti-Catholic, anti-semitic, anti-freemason, and he presented every single conspiracy theory ever known to man as absolute truth. His story about seeing a flying saucer rising from and re-entering the sea several times while he was serving in the Navy on a submarine gave me pause. However, it is a fascinating read and he included lots of interesting original source material in the appendix.

[0007]

39. The fairy tail of a country

Those red pagan heathens were put in their place, eh'?

"God shed his grace on us" ...........we're so concerned about the liberation and the welfare of the Iraqis, that we forget our own.

[starroute]

43. You *don't* have to stoop to their level

There are other options. Think Gandhi. Think Martin Luther King.

I think it's true that as long as you work within the system, you're at a disadvantage if you play by the rules.

But once you step outside the system and make up your own rules, you can be honorable and effective at the same time. And the bad guys who have made their way by twisting the rules won't have a clue as to how to deal with you.

[rman]

53. "they'll try drag you down to their level and beat you on experience"

And they do have a lot more experience on that level, they will beat you there.

In order to beat them we have to know how they think and what they do, but not play by their rules. If we descend to their level then they have already won.

[Beam Me Up]

28. Disillusionment is the first step toward liberation

I can understand that you don't want to believe it (LIHOP). As terrifying as the prospect of terrorists capable of causing the death of thousands of people is, how much more terrifying is the idea that a government sworn to serve and protect the Constitution and We, the People could allow, if not facilitate, such an event?

Like you, I don't want to believe it. But, apparently, unlike you, I do believe it.

I do not have 'proof' but many many things have convinced me. Preeminent among them is the fact that I see, over and over again, the presentation of information that is simply not credible with no follow-up explanation that makes any sense. For example: On the morning of 9/11 * sat in a classroom of children photo-oping with "a reading program that works." He went to that classroom knowing that one plane had hit the WTC and while he was in that classroom, according to his own account, he was told, "America is under attack." And yet after being told this, with the Secret Service fully aware that commercial air liners were being used as weapons of mass destruction, for another 15 to 20 minutes he continues to sit in that room only 10 minutes away from an international airport. This is not credible. This does not match up with what would be expected in a state of UNANTICIPATED national emergency. The excuse that they did not want to alarm the children is absurd. It would be expected in such a state of emergency that a president would, for his own safety (as well as the children), immediately remove himself from any publicly known location, become mobile and thus a more difficult target. Clearly this did not happen.

If it were only this one example, perhaps I would let the whole thing slide. But one can give example after example. Why were planes not scrambled? Why weren't established procedures followed? Even incompetence, which has never been proffered, fails as a plausible excuse. We all felt it that day, the kind of 'disbelief' that such a thing COULD happen. Well, I believe we were right from the get go. Such a thing could NOT happen--not without collaboration from persons in very high places in government, military and intelligence. It is their duty and their responsibility to PREVENT such things; to fail is dereliction OF that duty. To collaborate with it is nothing short of treason and cold blooded mass murder.

* is an arrogant idiot; a stupid, moronic, pretentious, installed sock-pupet masquerading as an elected president of a Constitutional Republic. The office of the President of the United States and, so far as I can tell, the whole Executive branch of our Federal Government has been compromised--and is now occupied by traitors who have no allegiance to either the Constitution of the United States (which they are in the process of dissembling as quickly as possible) or We the People of the United States.

Yes, I really do believe it IS as bad as all that. Moreover, I'm not convinced that, even if elections are allowed and even if those election are fair and even if a Democrat is elected, I AM NOT CONVINCED THAT THIS WILL ALLOW US TO EXPOSE AND ROOT OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL THOSE MONIED INTERESTS WHICH BROUGHT ABOUT THIS CHAIN OF EVENTS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The Will of the People must stand against and ultimately contain the will of those who would impose tyranny upon them. WE have the power to do this BY FORCE OF LAW. Provided, that is, those whose job it is to administer and uphold the law are not prejudiced or compromised and do so justly. Failing this is not merely to invite social chaos but to draw battle lines. To paraphrase: "Either you are with US, the People of the United States, or you are with THEM, the traitors to US *and* the Constitution."

Those who have ears should listen and those who have eyes should see.

[Occulus]

46. I've often wondered

exactly where the line between illegal insurrection and legal removal by force lies. Thanks for clearing that up somewhat.

[oldleftguy]

4. I used to miss Kennedy...John and Robert.

You alway wonder that might have been. Sometimes reading these links make me feel as old as dirt. :bounce:

[ewagner]

6. I miss John the most

He inspired me to go into public service.

I haven't been truly inspired by a president since.

btw: Kennedy cannot make a claim like that without being able to back it up. The RW media is going to go into full attack mode....with a big BULLSEYE on Ted's chest!

[NNN0LHI]

7. I have a feeling he his up to anything they throw at him n/t

[Guaranteed]

31. We don't have much to lose.

I say let the anger out and fight....after all, we have the truth working for us. It'll be bloody, but if we don't give up, we'll win.

[Dookus]

8. Tennessee -

could you please edit the thread title to make it reflect the article you reference? This is a dupe, but I know how hard threads can be when they get longer than 100 posts.

If you could, put the article title, and perhaps (part 2) afterward. Thanks!


Dookus
DU Moderator

[TennesseeWalker]

9. Edited.

Thanks for letting it stay. Got so into reading the posts, I didn't notice it was LBN. Knew it was a dupe, but missed the LBN and the need to let everyone know it was a continuation of the previous thread.

Sorry. My bad! :)

[Dookus]

12. No problem...

thanks a lot!

it's my first day on the moderator job, and I'd hate for the place to fall apart :)

[TennesseeWalker]

14. You're doing great!

I really love DU...makes me feel less alone in my political leanings. I'm getting very good at articulating progressive positions, and translating them into language that folks can understand here in the heavily Republican-infested hills of Northeast Tennessee.

I'm actually getting people to agree with me on a wide variety of issues. :) And DU is what's really helped. Plus, I love a good arguement.

[Dookus]

18. Perfect!

that's what it's all about. I've found that a good percentage of repubs, when confronted with real facts and logic, can be swayed. Keep up the good work.

[UserNamesAreFree]

41. Kennedy has a safe seat

and a big name. He makes a nice forum for the Dems. Good job, Ted.

[ignatius]

50. DU is a great place to get facts..that gives you a feeling

of enpowerment when you know the right is going to use rhetoric and bull shit that they have heard on Faux news and from Limpballs.

[Merlin]

11. Let's let Ted know we appreciate his enormous courage.

Whatever facts he may have, this takes enormous guts. It's the kind of courageous political act one witnesses perhaps once in a generation. Let's do all we can to show him our appreciation.

Does anybody have his email address, phone #, fax #, etc?

[9215]

16. Here you go

This is a great site for contacting reps:

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/

[eileen from OH]

17. You know what I love most about Kennedy?

He's been the object of Republican scorn including nasty jokes about weight and drinking and he keeps on dishing it out, doesn't back down and doesn't let it stop him at all. I think when all is said and done and he finally retires that history will find that he was one of the most effective lawmakers this country ever had.

eileen from OH

[Dookus]

19. Yup!

That's what I love about a LOT of leading Democrats. They've soldiered on against non-stop attacks without becoming bitter. Byrd, Kennedy, the Clintons.... class acts.

[Nottingham]

20. The Bush Clan vs Kennedy Clan Heats up! Go TED!

Its no coincidence on the day Wellstone died that Ted Kennedy was suppose to fly to Duluth with Paul Wellstone but Wellstone made different plans at the last minute

What an amazing thing it would have been to get two Liberal Senators in One Swoop and if I'm not mistaken another US Senator Liberal was to fly also with them.

I believe Ted is now ready to start fighting and I'll add more that some quatrains in Nostradamus talks about Ted as a major force in politics like his Brother John

This could be the moment! :bounce:

[homelandpunk]

22. I DON'T like the sound of that. Bush klan uses real bullets

and airplane malfunctions...nothing to say "yippee! Go Ted!" about. Cuz we know who wins those sort of things. Which is part of the reason I think Ted chose a day when the big hurricane news would knock his accusations off the media radar. He plays it safe. I guess I should not blame him.

[Nottingham]

25. He lost two Brothers to Assasins! I think Ted Needs to be safe

Not to Mention JFK Jr lost in a plane crash

I think Ted realizes that Byrd is right and Bush needs to be called out for the shameful use of the governments money

[starroute]

44. Ted Kennedy was already in one small plane crash

I only remember it vaguely, but I think he broke his back. I did a Google and found a date of 1964 but no other details.

And don't forget that he and Wellstone had been travelling together just before Wellstone's plane crashed and had separated only because of last minute decisions.

I don't think Ted Kennedy needs any warnings on this score.

[Guaranteed]

32. What did Nostradamus say?

By the way I'm actually hoping this doesn't turn into one of these apocalyptic, Biblical things (although I think Bush is).

[Merlin]

21. Here's EMK's email post site. Send him a message of support.

http://www.kennedy.senate.gov/index_low.html


GO TED!

[mhr]

27. With The Exception

on the charge of bribing world leaders, isn't he pretty much stating the obvious.

I guess I don't see this as all that controversial.

He could call the case of the missing money speculation if challeneged.

Maybe I am missing something here?

[hang a left]

29. Ted called it a "fraud"

That is a pretty strong word, and the last time I checked it is a felony.

[rman]

54. when Rumsfeld was asked..

if governments were bribed to join the coalition, he replied: "do you know what you'r saying? you're suggesting these governments can be bought"

i'll take that as a "yes".

[joanski01]

33. John Kennedy always said

that Ted was the talented politician in the family.

I don't think Ted's saying this during the hurricain was such a bad idea. There were probably way more people turned in to cable news yesterday to watch the storm, who got to see this Kennedy news.

[Dr Fate]

34. Teddy! You FINALLY read DU!!!

Better late than never!!!!

[NNN0LHI]

38. He voted against the Iraq resolution n/t

[radfringe]

36. So the war in Iraq was a fraud

what is Congress going to do about it?

also, with the saber rattling and war drums beating quietly in the background (again) - will Congress give the whistelass another blank check for Syria, Libya and North Korea?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

45. GO TED!

[BadGimp]

47. Me thinks this snip is the "tell"

"Kennedy said a recent report by the Congressional Budget Office (news - web sites) showed that only about $2.5 billion of the $4 billion being spent monthly on the war can be accounted for by the Bush administration.


"My belief is this money is being shuffled all around to these political leaders in all parts of the world, bribing them to send in troops," he said.
"

He has a mole in the CIA or somewhere who has an axe to grind with the misadministration.

[Voltaire99]

51. Well said, Ted

In the age of Lieberman and the Liebermen, I'm glad there's still a Kennedy or Byrd or Kucinich in the party.

Let us bear in mind that Kennedy's argument implicates those Dems who facilitated this war and who still eagerly support it. It's time to clean house!