Pastor Decried After Child's Arms Severed

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=716&e=6&u=/ap/20041205/ap_on_re_us/severed_arms

PLANO, Texas - Long before Dena Schlosser took a blade to her baby's arms, her parents had begun to worry. In the years after she moved to Texas with her husband and children, their gentle, dependent daughter had become increasingly isolated. And, according to her stepfather, she was dangerously consumed by a self-described prophet and his church. snip

By then, though, Schlosser's association with Davidson's church had intensified, Macaulay said.

He said Davidson used violent imagery and told women they possessed a rebellious "Jezebel" spirit, and that they should submit to their husbands, he said. snip

That's absurd, the 72-year-old minister said.

"I'm an apostle and I'm a prophet," Davidson said. "I only teach what's in the Bible and that's what makes them mad."

Davidson, a former veterinarian, said God told him to start Water of Life Ministries in suburban Dallas in the early 1980s. His sermons, based on literal interpretations of the Bible, are available on his Web site and broadcast on TV and radio in several states.

He refers to Methodist, Catholic and Baptist denominations as cults and believes the Ten Commandments apply only to the disobedient, not the righteous.

more

[NNN0LHI]

1. Here is this whack jobs website

http://www.doyledavidson.com/

[msgadget]

39. Did you see this?

>Article filed on 12/04/2004 by Lisa Falkenberg/Associated Press (Denton RC.com/News for Denton, Texas/AP). The following statements in this article quoted, "In September, Davidson was arrested for public intoxication after a couple, longtime members of his church, called 911, alleging the minister attacked them at their home. Davidson said he was only trying to cast the devil out of the wife, who had become rebellious and rejected his teachings. He said he entered the home with the permission of her husband. The couple told police Davidson smothered and choked her until she couldn't breathe. They later declined to press assault charges and several calls by the AP to their home went unanswered." My response to this statement, firstly, I did cast the devil out of Lisa, and secondly, I don't know if the police told Miss Falkenberg what the Staton's said, or if someone told Miss Falkenberg that that is what the Staton's told police. It doesn't matter where the information came from, it is a lie and the Staton's know it.<

thanks for the link.

[fob]

58. Apparently he "practices" what he preaches...

From the original post;

He refers to Methodist, Catholic and Baptist denominations as cults and believes the Ten Commandments apply only to the disobedient, not the righteous.

[karlrschneider]

49. This crazy motherfucker is on the local Faux channel right now...every

goddamn morning.
:grr:

[snooper2]

56. This place is like 3 blocks from my work...

Hmmm, what to do at lunch time today :) :evilgrin:

[hippiechick]

2. Sounds very similar to the lady a couple years back ....

also in Texas, who killed all of her kids.

Isolated.
Religious fundie family.
Submit to thy husband.
Women are bad.


:mad: I AM SO ANGRY WITH these flippin' hateful freaks !!!



:hippie:

[Whoa_Nelly]

3. Get a load of this -- reported drunk (from his website)

Another INSANE Fundie

http://www.doyledavidson.com/news/index.htm

Article filed on 12/04/2004 by Lisa Falkenberg/Associated Press (Denton RC.com/News for Denton, Texas/AP). The following statements in this article quoted, "In September, Davidson was arrested for public intoxication after a couple, longtime members of his church, called 911, alleging the minister attacked them at their home. Davidson said he was only trying to cast the devil out of the wife, who had become rebellious and rejected his teachings. He said he entered the home with the permission of her husband. The couple told police Davidson smothered and choked her until she couldn't breathe. They later declined to press assault charges and several calls by the AP to their home went unanswered." My response to this statement, firstly, I did cast the devil out of Lisa, and secondly, I don't know if the police told Miss Falkenberg what the Staton's said, or if someone told Miss Falkenberg that that is what the Staton's told police. It doesn't matter where the information came from, it is a lie and the Staton's know it.
God bless you, Doyle

[bluestateguy]

4. The pundits say we need to better "connect" with such people

and that we need to "understand" their values.

Their values do not need to be understood or connected with. They need to be defeated and rejected.

[Bouncy Ball]

10. ...

"Their values do not need to be understood or connected with. They need to be defeated and rejected."

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

VERY well put.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Those are the tools telling you this

this preacher is not unlike Jim Jones.

We need to connect with working class, blue collar who somehow think voting Republican will make them better... these whackos... nope

What can be fun though is to play the literal interpreation with the best of them... take out the Song of Songs, or the Parable of the Goat and the Sheep, if you get my drift...

;-)

[maxrandb]

45. I want the politicians in Texas and the pResident

To come out and denounce this whack job and all those that follow his twisted teaching.

Won't happen though. That would alienate their base. If Dems had any balls, they would make this reverand the "spokesman" and "representative" of the Rebublican Party, just like the Repukes have made Willie Horton, heroin junkies, and every other fringe group the "represetative" of the Democratic Party.

When the American people hear the term "conservative", or "states rights", or "fundamentalist", or "anti-gay family values Republican", I want them to see this mother fuckers face.

[JNelson6563]

42. Pundits hell! Let's talk DLC

Makes me ill.

Julie

[wolfgirl]

43. They need to be institutionalized! eom

[The Zanti Regent]

5. This sick prick should be put in jail

But he won't.

He's just another thug who hides behind Kesus

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. I used to read books about cults

that were written by fundy wackos, and was always insulted if my order wasn't listed. BTW, these books usually listed Unitarians, but I don't recall them saying anything about Methodists, Catholics, or Baptists.

But this nutcase is obviously sick...the Ten Commandments not for the righteous???? How do they become righteous???? And his assault of a woman when he was invited to their home by the husband, and the husband not filing assault charges--sometimes I wonder about people.

[flygal]

40. Read up on Amway - they use cult tactics and religeon to bring people

into the "business" creepy shit. I'm surprised they don't qualify for tax exempt status under this administration.

[yardwork]

50. Amway gives 100% of their political donations to Republicans

Amway helped keep shrub in the White House.

[Mike Niendorff]

7. Forget making peace with these people. Spotlight them.

Expose them for what they are, then force the wingnuts to either embrace them or reject them for all the world to see.


MDN

[Ardee]

8. software glitch

deleted as dupe, edited post below

[Ardee]

9. But, but, but

I thought it was only Muslim fundamentalists who were the problem?

Lets face it, folks. There have always been and always will be wack jobs like these, ultimately it says nothing about religion only that they are nut cases.......

[LiberalFighter]

11. Wait a minute... He is a false prophet... the Ten Commandments...

are only for the believers. And only the version determined by their faith.

[demosincebirth]

12. Another wacko calling himself a prophet

[burythehatchet]

13. do you ever wonder what happened to the guy in college who took

a hit of window box and something in his brain got permanently fried. I think I know what became of him.

[NNN0LHI]

17. Funny you should mention that

I watched a guy have a bad trip on window pane acid in 1972 and when he was done he was a bonafide Jesus freak. No shit. He was a pretty cool guy before that, but this boy went way over the edge. No amount of reasoning could help either. Haven't heard what happened to him. I may start asking around the old hood to see where he ended up. My guess would be he is either in a mental hospital or he has his own church somewhere. Last time I seen him (over 20 years ago) he was walking down the street carrying his bible and mumbling something to himself.

Don

[TheWraith]

14. Hmm.

"believes the Ten Commandments apply only to the disobedient, not the righteous."

Funny, most fundies seem to feel this way, but it's rare to see one admit it.

[montana_hazeleyes]

15. Don't let bush* *

hear about this guy. He'll** go and make him head of a "faith based " battered women's shelter.

[genieroze]

54. LOL... eom

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. If the parents were so "worried" then where the hell were they!!!

And Jezebel Spirit would make for an excellent username. :)

[pop goes the weasel]

25. they don't live in Texas

and the mom is quite ill herself.

The real question is why, after so many infamous cases of post-partum psychosis in this state (I'm in Texas too), social services closed the case so quickly instead of doing the long-term follow-up that postpartum depression should have to make sure that it doesn't turn into out and out psychosis. Of course, I know the answer to that one: our Republican legislature, Gov. Good Hair, and the budget mess left behind by the monster now resident on PA Ave.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. Worry transcends distance in my mothering experience. I worry

for my daughter, I go to her. From all that has been written about this case, someone should have been able to step in.

[pop goes the weasel]

29. the mother has Parkinsons

Distance plus disability is a hard obstacle to overcome. Love can't magically make one well enough to travel, so let's not heap more pain on these people by dumping guilt on them when we really don't know what was going on for them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. No, but the mother is not the only person in this woman's family. She was

severely troubled. If the family is going to come out and make a statement like that, I'm going to come down on them. Sorry. It's how I feel. They should have never have said they were worried. We were worried that my brother was in some sort of trouble out in LA when he first moved there...so my father flew out. Simple.

[NNN0LHI]

33. I know what you are saying but all families are not created equal

My brother who divorced his first wife (one of many) when they were still babies let another man raise his kids so he could be a playboy. He paid support, which I give him credit for, but now his daughter is married to a controlling, recently born again, asshole. My brother sees them once or twice a year during holidays. If this were my daughter I would handle this "problem" just like your father did if I were to find myself and daughter in the same position.

My brother on the other hand would be more like a stranger going into his own daughters house to talk turkey about something as important as this. So all my brother can really do about the situation is worry. He is reaping what he has sown.

Don't think I am trying to give the impression I was perfect in my life either, as I have been far from it. Made a lot of mistakes that I am not proud of over the years, which I hope by admitting shows at least I am no hypocrite.

Don

[ScreamingMeemie]

34. Agreed. My problem with this family is that they said, after the fact,

that they were worried about her. That always rings false to me. I'm not perfect either, but I question the family in letting this happen if they knew their daughter was suffering with a small child in her care.

[NNN0LHI]

35. But my brother is honestly worried about his daughter and grand kids

He has told me so. There just isn't a damn thing he can do about it. I would probably have an easier time getting through to her, but the last time they were over and her and I were chatting at the kitchen table her a-hole husband came storming into our kitchen wagging his finger at me because what I was saying did not fit into his FOX news fed pea sized brain. He came close to going home with a broken finger (at minimum) that day. They have not been back.

Don

Edit: The reason this really hits home for me is that my niece suffered postpartum psychosis, just like this woman after both her children were born. And I think they are planning on having more children?

[TahitiNut]

48. "worried about" vs. "concerned for"

In my time on this planet, it's been my experience that there're far more dysfunctional/codependent 'families' than otherwise. I've heard people say they were "worried about" a relative and say it in a tone of blame, i.e. "See what they're doing to me by making me worry?"

"Do as I say and not as I do" is the most common parenting approach I've seen. Parents with adult children seem more inclined to continue the adolescent game of "I'm gonna prove I'm right" and "I told you so" than any other form of interaction.

It's an authoritarian mindset, imho. So, it's not surprising to me that people repeat the mistake of trying to find the "infallible father." This, after all, has been the openly articulated goal of religious fundamentalism for over 120 years. Some people have the core belief that they need a 'rock' - an absolute - something other than themselves upon which they can mindlessly rely and to which they can transfer responsibility.

Karen Armstrong offers an excellent perspective in "The Battle for God" regarding religious fundamentalism and the conservative v. liberal schism. We're today revisiting a conflict that's been flaring up for a century and a half.

[pop goes the weasel]

38. I'm glad

that your family has resources that enabled your father to do that. I had no idea that expressing concern was something that only those with resources were allowed to do, however. I'll be sure to pass the word along to my friend who has been out of work 4 years and unable to get the money to cross the ocean to see his little girl. I'm sure he'll be glad to know that the new ettiquette demands that he never evince any concern or regret. Wouldn't want to offend your middle class sensibility.

[ScreamingMeemie]

52. Grrrrrrrrr...forget it. It's my opinion.

Thanks.

[harpboy_ak]

41. Don't blame the victim!

> No, but the mother is not the only person in this
> woman's family. She was severely troubled. If the
> family is going to come out and make a statement
> like that, I'm going to come down on them. Sorry.
> It's how I feel. They should have never have said
> they were worried. We were worried that my brother
> was in some sort of trouble out in LA when he first
> moved there...so my father flew out. Simple.

not simple! if he was a minor, your father had some control.

unfortunately, the families of the mentally ill have absolutely NO right to interfere or do anything UNLESS the patient has given them a durable power of attorney for health care or been appointed as a guardian. and the cops can't do anything unless it is very clear that the mentally ill person is truly a danger to themselves or others.

believe me, as the former primary caregiver for a relative with mental illness, it's NOT as simple as you make it out to be, especially with the new HIPAA privacy rules.

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. No he wasn't a minor, and no my father was not rich enough. He put it

on credit. Yes, we took care of my alcoholic and clinically depressed father in law for 7 years before he killed himself. And then, there was nothing I could say to absolve myself of the guilt. Thanks. :hi:

[NNN0LHI]

31. They also had no health insurance because the father lost his job

>>>The Schlossers moved to Texas about five years ago. John soon lost his job and began working for himself as a consultant. The family had to trade their spacious home for a small apartment, and a midwife delivered Margaret because they had no health insurance.<<<

[genieroze]

55. I bet they found money to give to that cult though. eom

[Catherine Vincent]

18. Only in Texas....

...

[bigmonkey]

19. In the Christian tradition, this is a heresy with a name.

Antinomianism. My Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy defines it as:
"The belief held by various sects, but particularly by radical protestant movements of the 16th and 17th centuries, that certain chosen Christians are by faith or predestination unable to sin, and are hence set free from the requirement to obey any moral law. Antinomianism is frequently associated with unconventional life styles and sexual practices."

These crazies are repeating the disastrous perversions of faith of the past, and calling it freedom.

[George_S]

23. Thanks for the new word

Didn't know that.

[Cronus Protagonist]

20. Jesus, save us from your followers.

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[Igel]

21. He's on tv in a few states?! n/t

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

24. Bunch of sick fucks!!!!!!!!!

:mad: :puke: :argh:

[Crunchy Frog]

27. I knew when I first read that story that it involved

fundie wackos. Looks like my instinct on that was borne out.

These are the types of people who are being told their moral values triumphed in the election. They are so emboldened right now that I expect to see a whole rash of these sorts of incidents.

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. Holy shitah.

I was ready to turn my back on this woman. I was sure there was no circumstantial evidence that would change my mind. But this is just incredible! I have for a long time felt that we underplay the number of people who dismember their own kin because they think the family member is possessed by the devil. If over-zealous religious teachers are pushing people over the edge, then we need to find out what the triggers are in order to stop this tragedy from happening again.

[aikido15]

32. Where do these people...

Come from? I mean really, I wonder what the weather is like on their planet.

[daleo]

36. I am not surprised there was some religious craziness somewhere in this.

It makes me wonder if there was some particular Bible teaching or verse that this woman began to obsess about, that somehow led to this gruesome outcome. I don't know the Bible well enough to say.

[daleo]

37. Maybe she spent too long obsessing on one of these messages:

Zechariah Chapter 11
4 Thus said the LORD my God: 'Feed the flock of slaughter;
...
9 Then said I: 'I will not feed you; that which dieth, let it die; and that which is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let them that are left eat every one the flesh of another.'
...
17 Woe to the worthless shepherd that leaveth the flock! The sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye; his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.


A Psalm of David.

28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.


1 Samuel 2:31
Behold, the days come, that I will cut off your arm, and the arm of your father's house, that there shall not be an old man in your house.

[BiggJawn]

44. "Literal interpretations..."

The King James Version, I'll bet, too. Sure, it's blasphemy to say they all didn't speak English and go "Verily, I say unto Thee" back then....

So, did the "Jezebel Spirit" commit the crime? That ought to be an interesting defense.

[Strawman]

46. This asshole could get our tax dollars

Through faith based inititatives if Bush has his way. Happened in Texas when nutjobs and cons started getting gov't money.

[PurityOfEssence]

47. Yet, religion is inherently good

Can't say nothing against that sweet, sweet faith stuff. Nope. Can't even really point it out here, in what should be a refuge for sanity.

The moment I heard about this incident, I immediately smelled religion. Sure enough, the first newspaper story stated that there were a pair of angel statues outside of their apartment. Then I heard the CNN story where it was stated that religious music was playing in the background when she called 9-11.

Yeah, I'm prejudiced on the subject, but religion provides perfect cover for insanity, and helps cause it. Whether it's a form of insanity itself doesn't really matter.

When people outside of religion start hearing voices and getting depressed, their friends and family identify it for what it is. People who believe in magic and other poppycock have a vast field of obstacles in their way when trying to thread through the insanity of life.

Nowhere in the major media will the finger be pointed to where it should be: AT RELIGION ITSELF. Believing in supernatural things with no proof is nuts. Yet, we glorify this mass delusion, and rage with derision at anyone who points it out.

It's just sickening; I'd like to hear a believer come forward and admit that it's a deep problem with the mindset of the faithful.

That's our future, folks: more and more religion. More fucked up kids raised by addle-headed fantasists who believe in elves and fairies and some eternal happy place with pats on the head from the Big Daddy. What they can do there that's fun is beyond me, since they hate anything that's fun, but they don't have to make any sense, they already know absolutely everything. Anyone who doesn't believe in the grand delusion doesn't deserve to be part of our wonderful world, and anyone who crosses the truest organized crime will be crushed.

Meanwhile, just prune your kids and drink the koolaid.

[skypilot]

51. "That's absurd...."

"I'm an apostle and a prophet..."

Now, that's absurd. Pretty much speaks for itself.

[SammyWinstonJack]

57. Yet another religious nut case

That people continue fall for this crap, blows my mind. :crazy: