Turk lawmaker says US in Iraq worse than Hitler

[teach1st]

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=5366150

ANKARA (Reuters) - The head of Turkey's parliamentary human rights group has accused Washington of genocide in Iraq and behaving worse than Adolf Hitler, in remarks underscoring the depth of opposition in Turkey to U.S. policy in the region.

The United Sates embassy said the comments were potentially damaging to Turkish-U.S. relations.

"The occupation has turned into barbarism," Friday's Yeni Safak newspaper quoted Mehmet Elkatmis, head of parliament's human rights commission, as saying. "The U.S. administration is committing genocide...in Iraq.

"Never in human history have such genocide and cruelty been witnessed. Such a genocide was never seen in the time of the pharoahs (of ancient Egypt), nor of Hitler nor of (Italy's fascist leader Benito) Mussolini," he said.

[HeeBGBz]

1. There's your thanksgiving Turkey, *

That's quite a statement.

[4dsc]

2. Gee, perhaps we should ask the Kurds

how the turkish are treating the Kurds??

[aneerkoinos]

3. Why?

Kurds have bean treated badly by Iraq, Turkey, Syria and Iran, and the Kurds are no angels either. Situation in Turkey has greatly improved and keeps improving along the EU-membership process.

What has that got to do with critisism of US barbarism in Iraq? I thought attakcing the messenger was GOP tactic, debating the issue the civilized way?

[Boosterman]

4. Unfortunately we dont seem

to have reliable news sources. We see reports of 20k + dead in Fallujah. The military says all the civilians are evacuated (wtf- everyone?) We dont know exactly what is happening there. Plenty of people making up both sides of the story. I truly hope there are very few innocents being hurt. Call me naive but thats my wish.

Oh and over the top statements make many people reject the entire message. That applies to any report no matter what side.

[LisaL]

6. I am sorry, but it's kind of late to wish for

"very few innocents being hurt".
:spank:

[Boosterman]

7. Its never too late to hope that no more innocents are harmed. n/t

[aneerkoinos]

11. Wishing everybody well is OK

denial is naive.

Bombing the clinics for twisted propaganda reasons and many other war crimes are well attested, with some critical thinking you can find out the most plausible story and get the message, even when "over the top statement" IS the message, as in this case. Message is that Turks, your old allies, are pretty pissed at US.

[Boosterman]

28. Well is it turks in general

or only this branch?

[aneerkoinos]

36. Turks in general n/t

[Cadence]

24. If you see the coverage on arab satellite t.v.

it's not just a "few innocents being hurt", it's absolutely gruesome.

[Boosterman]

31. would you care to name specifics?

I wanted no one to be hurt. Thats obviously not the case. But as far as i know there are no videos of americans killing people other than the GI video. Lots of writing from semi anonymous reporters but no confirmation.

[Cadence]

34. Well what do you mean by specifics?

I've seen very different footage of the casualties than I've seen on our MSM. Lot's of children, women, elderly, you name it, maimed, missing limbs, burned or lying dead in the streets.

As far as specifically seeing American soldiers firing point blank at them, No, I haven't seen that except for the video the reporter that was with the troops shot.

Mostly the footage is from bombs being dropped, explosions from tanks that type of thing and the effects on the civilians.

I guess if your wondering if most of the civilian casualties are from the Iraqi insurgents the only thing I would suggest is subscribe to satellite and see it for yourself. There is no way to describe it until you've seen it.

[Boosterman]

38. So you have seen American troops firing Tank

rounds or dropping bombs on the civilians? How about bombing sites with American bomb pieces laying around the site? Any real proof in other words?

Look I am not doubting you. Sadly you are probably right. I just need proof not allegations. No offense brother.

[Cadence]

41. I think probably

the "proof" you need is to just see it for yourself...and even that may be debatable.
But not by me because I'm not in the mood to debate you over this. Not trying to be flaming.

[Boosterman]

43. If I see it it wont be debatable.

That I promise you. I will condemn it. :)

[The Magistrate]

8. Still, Comrade

The statement is hyperbole at best, grotesque exaggeration at worst. Anyone with a passing acquaintance of history can name numerous events exceeding in horror the conduct of the U.S. in Iraq, and a number of them do indeed trace to the modern Turks themselves. This kind of thing serves no useful purpose; it certainly does not change anyone's mind. People who are i agreement with the conquest of Iraq, but troubled by its character today, will be more likely to react against such statements with angry rejection, because they are palpably untrue, and end more committed to their support for the endeavor than otherwise.

[aneerkoinos]

13. Nice of you to remember, Sir :)

See my post 11.

My post was targeted at ALL moralizing, both the poster I replied and the Turkish MP, I'm sick and tired of moralistic arguments. Morals are usefull when applied to oneself, even mine are not worth praise. Yeah, i said "barbarism", but anybody who speaks less Greek than me is barbarian ;). Seriously, it refers to level of civilization, not morals.

[Nordic]

25. what's that have to do with the price of tea in china?

You're changing the subject.

[OutsourceBush]

5. This man obviously doesn't know Jesus Bush

Send in the bombs so that he may know Jesus Bush

[Brundle_Fly]

9. I live in Canada

I get American (cnn, msnbc, etc) and Canadian and british news channels.

you in the US get very, very filtered accounting of the troops and their actions. We do not. I don't know if it's genocide...

but there is no (zero) attempt to limit the civilian casualities.

[LisaL]

10. Maybe Bush is afraid he can't send enough voting machines

to Iraq. After all, we didn't have enough here in the US.
Kill the voter before he/she get a chance to vote?
:eyes:

[aneerkoinos]

14. There was

pre-invation attempt to limit civilian casualties, in form of bombing the city to show they mean business and the women and children should leave. Men were not allowed, as you also know.

Invasion of Fallujah was pretty much free fire zone, fuck the Geneva rules business.

BTW all media are pretty filtered, there is only slight difference of degree. :D

[VegasWolf]

12. Cmon now, worse? Maybe as bad as!

[teach1st]

15. Six million is...

...a hard number to top.

There are similarities, yes, especially with the Nazis of the 1930s and their build-up to genocide. If the Bush administration remains unchecked, who knows?

As we try to sort through the conflicting and sometimes restricted media reports, it's perhaps reassuring to know there is still time to stop this if enough speak out.

[VegasWolf]

18. and 100,000 civilains is only a number too.

[daleo]

21. 100,000 is 33 World Trade Center attacks

Bush is doing pretty well in the numbers department.

[LisaL]

19. Actually, it's a pretty easy to top-when one has nukes.

[bhikkhu]

23. Given time, media cooperation, secrecy...

six million may not be so hard to top...

As far as Nazi parallels, there have been blanket rejections from many quarters of such statements. When will it be ok to call a spade a spade?

[Deja Q]

16. Oh jeez. This is getting worse and worse and worse.

When will it all end?

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

17. U.S. invading countries is very similar to what Hitler did

And those who think it's not may want to comment again after reading PNAC on the web.
(GREAT link):
http://tvnewslies.org/html/pnac.html


The next U.S invasion of a country may take place very soon, possibly with nuclear fun toys.(little mini nukes of course)

World Domination is our Goal
End justifies the Means-
Counting civilian casualties is not our job.


http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
http://www.pnac.info/

[veracity]

20. Does it matter WHOM Bush is worse than? He's a terrorist.

Does it really matter? Evil is evil. Bush is evil. You can't be a little bit evil...that's like being a little bit pregnant or a little bit dead. Evil is an absolute. Bush invaded a nation that was no threat to the US. He has killed tens of thousands of people and continues to bomb and kill then into the submission he hopes for, but will never get.

If you missed this...Here's the PROOF, no the accusation: Bush, the Terrorist:

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/george_w__bush_-_world_s_leadi.html

[aneerkoinos]

39. Evil is not absolute

I'm little evil... and little good; if we need such words at all. There is no evil withoug good and vice verca, those consepts are a pair that demand each other to mean anything.

[George_S]

22. potentially damaging to Turkish-U.S. relations? Could it be...

... relations are already damaged and that is why the man is saying that?

No, it couldn't be.

[Nordic]

26. well, time to take a look at some photos and see ......

http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/

[Cadence]

29. I can't handle them

whenever I see the pictures I want to throw up. All of them, the children, the dead Iraqi's, the dead American soldiers. It's beyond my grasp how people can see them and be so emotionally removed from this decision and still think this is somehow benefiting them.

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

27. Turks have no authority

They still haven't apologized fror the Armenian genocide in WWI.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

30. Oh, for Christ's sweet sake

"We're sorry." Turkey.

There. Feel better?

[villagechild]

33. your apology

for "Christ's sweet sake" ... On behalf of whom, may I ask, and for what?! Do you have a problem with the Turks, or the news article? Sounds a little like a little sweet resentment on your part!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

35. "sweet resentment"???

I have no idea what that means.

It's today - it's now - and there's something fatuous and smarmy about "an apology" for atrocities committed.

I have no problem with Turks or Armenians. I just don't care. The efforts expended to keep this bullshit going - to no realistic end, I might add - is just idiotic.

Look at the world around us, and consider the current problems. "Apologies" are hardly of import.

[aneerkoinos]

40. Apology

Hey all Native Americans, Abos etc., as European I take full responsibility and ask your forgiveness for sending my forefathers cousins to kill and poison you. Oh and Jews, Gypsies, homos too, I'm sorry! And everybody else who I left out the list, sorry!

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

42. More on the Armenian Genocide

Here:

http://www.endgenocide.org/genocide/armenia.htm

[aneerkoinos]

45. I'm sorry for that too

I'm the Son of Man, Jesus is my middle name.
And for Bambi - that also was me, not Cheney!

BTW ever heard "first cast the beam out of thine own eye"?

[villagechild]

46. no realistic end

Hey, I just didn't see where Christ had anything to do with this or that. I'm sorry too, for the inhumanity, and for war. Will it ever end, realisyically? BTW, what would an un-realistic ending look like???

[__Inanna__]

32. To all these comments I say

Perception is reality, quite often. If this is what the world thinks we are doing (genocide), then we are in big trouble, no matter what you want to call what we're doing or what leader * should be compared to. Right about now, who knows what "reality" is, except that it's pretty horrific. There's a saying...the world doesn't judge you by intentions, rather actions. And our actions do NOT speak highly of us. The scary part is not only the horrors we are complicit in over there (is it fair to compare us to Germans who might have heard about concentration camps, but did nothing to stop it, because somehow it's easier for us to not deal with things, because we are half a world away?), but what will come back in terms of punishment to us. When and if that day comes, how sympathetic is the rest of the world going to be to step in and give us a hand?

[Boosterman]

37. You have a valid point

The international media jumped all over this in all likelihood. In all honesty I think we have stepped over the bounds in certain situations. However, when has another country stepped in to help us in the last 50 years. Even militarily I doubt they have got over 20 % on any single war. They certainly havent helped us in any economic way. JMO

[bhikkhu]

44. How much help have we needed?

Recall Kennan's quote from 1948: "we have 50% of the world's wealth, but only 6.3% of its population...In this situation we cannot fail to be the object of envy and resentment. Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity without positive detriment to our national security. To do this, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and daydreaming....We need not deceive ourselves that we can afford today the luxury of altruism and world-benefaction..."

[villagechild]

47. 50% of the world's wealth

those were the days my friend, they thought they'd never end . . .