Obama on Letterman's "Late Show", basks in national media spotlight

[jefferson_dem]

CHICAGO -- Chicago's media gossip columnists are abuzz with news about Illinois' new political sensation, U.S. Senator-elect Barack Obama. Friday night, Obama will be featured on "Late Show" with David Letterman.

CBS released a portion of tonight's transcript, and the Chicago Tribune's Maureen Ryan teased readers this morning by publishing part of the interview which will air Friday night at 10:30 PM CST:

<SNIP>

The former state senator told Letterman that not only did he receive a congratulatory phone call from the President, he recently had breakfast with Bush, Vice-President Cheney and Bush political adviser Karl Rove.

Obama, who will be sworn in next month to replace outgoing Senator Peter Fitzgerald, has signed on high-powered agent Bob Barnett who is brokering a new book deal for Obama and keeping his client in the national spotlight.

<SNIP>

http://www.illinoisleader.com/news/newsview.asp?c=21093

[Ima]

1. Why does he want the national spot light?

What is his message?run for Pres?

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. We can only hope

Barama rocks :)

[piece sine]

104. I'd rock his world

he's hot -- I know he's got a wife and all that but I'd bed that puppy down in a New York minute.

[imenja]

85. he's a politician

that's enough reason. I'm sure he does want to run for president some day.

[TexasSissy]

105. Of course. He has been pegged by the DNC as the up and coming

charismatic star of the Democratic Party. That means presidential material. That's why he gave the keynote address at the convention.

[blm]

2. The only reason Bush AND Rove would meet with Obama is to BRIBE him

BIGTIME to come over to their side or show him the copies of photos they have staged to use against him. If there is to be a black president in the future they will only allow it to be a black Republican. Rove intends for that act to be the last nail in the Democratic party coffin.

[Raskolnik]

4. Or maybe...

they met with him because it was a breakfast for ALL incoming freshman Senators.

Come on, man.

[blm]

6. Hey, the GOP tried like hell to get Kweisi Mfume to switch when he was in

office. I certainly don't think they've changed their ways, and in fact, they've probably stepped up their recruitment efforts now that they have so much power.

[Raskolnik]

9. I just got word

Obama is planning on attending Washington-area meetings that will be attended by dozens of powerful Republican officials. These meetings should start some time after January, and my sources tell me that they'll be actually forming public policy at these meetings.

We really have to look out for this.

[blm]

54. So that means you never even knew about their efforts with Kweisi Mfume?

You think the GOP, Bush and Rove only act with honorable intentions towards Democrats?

[Raskolnik]

59. Perhaps you should save your energy.

There are real things to be pissed about. Obama attending a breakfast for incoming Senators is not one of them.

[imenja]

87. he has to meet with Republicans to get anything done

they are the majority party. If Democrats do nothing but obstruct legislation for the next four years, that will put the final nail in the coffin of the party.

[jefferson_dem]

7. Yup.

They met with him because it was a breakfast for ALL incoming freshman Senators.

.

.

.


... And it was a perfect opportunity to offer that initial bribe-er-ooni.

[Raskolnik]

8. Because its only logical to blackmail and bribe

at an event attended by all the incoming freshman Senators.

The dastards!

[jefferson_dem]

10. Since when has this administration operated based on logic?

Win at any cost.

The bastards!

[Raskolnik]

13. Are you serious?

They arranged a breakfast for incoming Senators to bribe/blackmail Barack Obama?

Perhaps it would help if you were more specific on what they would be offering and/or threatening. Otherwise, you're just being conspiratorial for the sake of being conspiratorial.

In my opinion, there's enough bad going on without having to worry about made up stuff.

[jefferson_dem]

15. As serious as you are, i imagine.

I do not see anyone being overly conspiratorial in this thread. Of course, there would not be a patently obvious bribery offer (in the form of money or anything material) made to Obama. But to ascribe anything other than the most seamy motives to this clan of scumbags in the WH would either be incredibly naive, ignorant, or "unDemocratic."

Note that I AM NOT saying that Obama would likely knuckle under pressure to concede a damn thing. I'm just saying the motivations of Chimpy are clear.

I'm curious : where do you get the idea that this was a large joint breakfast for ALL incoming freshman Sens or legislators and not something "special" set up to schmooze Obama?

[Raskolnik]

16. Like I said...

There is enough bad going on without worrying about made up stuff. If people get their underwear in a twist every time Obama is in the same room with a Republican, they are going to wear themselves out.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sweet/cst-nws-sen15.html

[jefferson_dem]

20. The one making stuff up would be the one who actually trusts this

cheating, lying fuck of a "president" and his coniving henchmen.

To take a suspcious posture is called being a *realist*. Again, that being said, I don't blame Obama for meeting with Chimp and his henchmen, and have no reason to not trust him to make sound political judgments.

Thanks for the link.

I wouldn't worry about faithful Dems here wearing themseleves out. There's plenty enough incentive to keep the fire burning.

[Raskolnik]

22. You set up a bit of a straw man with that one.

I wouldn't trust this administration with my lunch money, but that doesn't mean that every event needs to be a conspiracy.

It wears people out and distracts them from what is actually important.

[jefferson_dem]

23. Noper. Seems that our exchange has digressed into REAL false accusations

now.

In this particular thread, you are the only one talking conspiracies that i've noticed. Certainly, no one has suggested that "every event needs to be a conspiracy," as you claim. So...who is ponying up the straw men again?

At any rate, i don't believe there's a need for any one poster to feel obliged to alert others as to what's "actually important." If you see this engagement as simply a friendly meet-and-greet with the chimp-meister, please go right ahead. Don't be surprised if others see a more manacle plan.

[Raskolnik]

24. ummm

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you think this was a nefarious plan to get to Obama or you don't.

Which one is it?

[jefferson_dem]

27. Why the faux dichotmous world, man?

I don't live there. Didn't you just try to refute my skepticism by suggesting that I was setting up a straw man? Yet now you are requesting that i say "nefarious plan" or not. That's just plain silly.

I will say that it is customary for any pres to invite new incomings for such an engagement. But with this slime that inhabits the Oval, all bets are off. Simply put, i do not trust him. You say you don't trust him either but still find no real need to discuss this meeting since it's not important. Whatever.

I'll have my cake AND eat it too, by the way. Thanks.

[Raskolnik]

29. Its hard to argue with you when you won't take a position.

If people act like this every time Obama has to share a room (or, gasp, a table) with a Republican, this is going to be a long six years.

[bobbyboucher]

108. You got the circular, red, strawman, parts down pat, now just

add the hysteria and you're in the hall of fame.

[Raskolnik]

111. I don't know what that means.

[LakeCohoon]

109. Conspiratorial? Why...

Why, didn’t you know? Everything is a conspiracy to some folks around here.

[Dimsdale]

5. Exactly..

Don't get too uppity Barak. We can't have a Dem, especially a black man, making a mess of the neo-con vision. Join us, it'll go a lot easier for you. Yeah right, Obama as a Zell Miller from Illinois.

[imenja]

86. I disagree

Obama's talent and ideas are great. He got support across the ideological spectrum in Illinois. I believe he can be president, though 2008 is likely too soon.

[TexasSissy]

106. Yes. The Repubs are probably trying to lure Obama to their side,

just as they hand picked Reagan from the Dem. Party.

That Obama would meet with them is interesting. Could it mean that he's interested?

[madrchsod]

11. he`s the bright future of the democratic party

if you had the chance to hear him speak up close and personal you`d realize that he is the real deal and with the guidance of durbin and others he`ll be able to challenge anyone the klan can throw against him.
and to all those who think he`ll sell out-don`t worry-we`ll throw his ass out of the senate if he does. this is illinois,we don`t play around. you don`t play the game you don`t last.

[420inTN]

40. They said the same thing...

several years ago concerning Harold Ford, Jr. after he introduced Pres. Clinton at the DNC Convention.

[Boosterman]

45. I like Harold Ford Jr

What did I miss?

[420inTN]

56. Nothing really...

I guess that he's not longer the "bright star" of the Democrat Party. Of course, it will be interesting to see if HF, Jr runs for Frist's seat in 2006. If he wins (which will be a challenge), then we'd have Ford and Obama in the Senate. Battle of the rising stars?

[Ima]

12. I" surprised the went.

Bush, Vice-President Cheney and Bush political adviser Karl Rove. They have to have an agenda.

[rhyfeddu]

14. "Obama Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope..."

I hope I'm not setting myself up for heartbreak - but, I actually have a little sliver of hope left, when I hear him speak...

If he can only keep his head above the sewage line in DC....

[AmerDem]

17. I'm really not liking all of this

As much as I loved that speech O Bama gave during the convention the way he has been given movie star status is exactly what is wrong with the current state of our party. We shouldn't be looking to him as some new Messiah sent from heaven but as a much needed shot in the arm to bring others on board to rebuild our party. We need politicans devoted to helping out the average American not spending their time and energy on the show biz circuit.

The repukes love nothing more then building this guy up because they surely have a full scale plan to destroy this guy when they feel the time is right. He would then be looked at as every other has been movie star.

[barb162]

19. Let's face it; as a freshman senator Obama will be able to

do next to nothing, especially in a GOP congress. He will be the most junior member of any committee too.

Now would it surprise me if the Rove gang disses him somewhere along the line, saying something like look at their big star DNC speaker, Senator from IL who hasn't done a thing in Congress.

[SemperEadem]

43. he said as much Wednesday night on Charlie Rose

he's like 99th... so he won't be chairing any committees or subcommittees... he'll have his office in the basement, returning correspondence with his constituents, something he said in the interview that he likes to do.

[Raskolnik]

21. Respectfully disagree.

I think what the Democrats need more than anything is a person they can point to and say "THIS is the person that is in charge of our party, and THIS is the person that is best advancing our ideals."

Most people would agree that Kerry didn't fill that role for us, while Bush undoubtedly fills that role for Republicans.

[Guaranteed]

31. Not without a platform, maybe an idea or two.

Even Dean has those.

[imenja]

89. it's because we are desperate for talent

I agree the movie star status is too much, but Democrats are desperate for good leadership. Obama has to perform in a way that approaches expectations. He is a ray of hope, but he's relatively inexperienced. I hope the Senate doesn't tarnish him too badly. I wish he's run for governor of Illinois instead.

[barb162]

18. Obama is cool; I will watch Letterman tonight

[FDRrocks]

25. Is this politics or the entertainment industry?

Go dine with Bush, Obama, whatever.

[Raskolnik]

26. Whatever?

What exactly is the problem, as you see it?

[FDRrocks]

28. Majorly, that this supposed upstart, hope for the Democratic party

is lining up book deals and dining with Bush, even as the opposition is aggresively advancing thier agenda in both houses (to the detriment of good sense and civil liberties).

[Raskolnik]

33. So he should have rushed to the Senate to cast a vote?

Or maybe convened his Senate Sub-committee?

You do know that this event was a traditional breakfast for ALL incoming Senators, don't you? It wasn't exactly Obama and Bush holding hands at the Olive Garden people! Get some facts before jumping all over the guy for Jeebus' sake!

FDR was seen from time to time with members of the other party, by the way.

[FDRrocks]

35. I expect him to earn his goddamned money

and work on legislation. That's all. I know dining with a president isn't abnormal, but Bush isn't the normal president, in my opinion.

And I'm sure many isolationist Republican opposition to FDR was plenty pissed when thier leaders were rubbing elbows with him. Some hated him as much as I do Bush.

His agent... that... whatever. That's what prompted me to post in the first place.

[Raskolnik]

36. What money have you paid him?

HE'S NOT A SENATOR YET.

He will not be a Senator until January. At that point, if he has candle-lit dinners with Bush, then you can count on me to be outraged.

Part of the reason he won his race by forty points is that he is able to advance his ideas while still remaining civil to those that disagree. There is a time and a place to be a disagreeable hard-ass. The welcome breakfast for incoming freshman is neither the time nor the place.

[Turley]

51. Kind of like Hillary?

Oh wait, she had agents and book deals before she worked on any legislation.

Never mind.

[Guaranteed]

30. He hired an agent.

And he already has a book out. Now he wants another one?

Think maybe he should write a couple of bills first, maybe help take the party in some kind of direction?

Is he a celebrity, or a politician?

[Raskolnik]

37. I honestly believe this is exactly what we need right now

The legislation will come, albeit slowly with a R congress.

(I posted the following above, but it applies to your issue with his approach.)

I think what the Democrats need more than anything is a person they can point to and say "THIS is the person that is in charge of our party, and THIS is the person that is best advancing our ideals."

Most people would agree that Kerry didn't fill that role for us, while Bush undoubtedly fills that role for Republicans.

[Boosterman]

47. Is there a difference between the two now? n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

84. It's a little bit of both

[Politicub]

32. I love Obama!

I'm glad a dem is in the national media spotlight!!

[liberalmuse]

34. Very Kennedyesque.

Reminds me of the documentary's on JFK after he won his Senate seat. He did similar things. I hope we see a lot of Obama in the future.

[Ima]

38. He is really on a fast track, to fast

I would have felt better of it, if he hadn't told the press "There was no election fraud".

[carpe diem]

39. here we go again...

...just like the "get over it" remark that he NEVER SAID!!...

[Ima]

41. I don't know

anything about the "get over it". I heard about 'no fraud" from a thread here, that many people were remarking on. Do a search, you can find it.

[__Inanna__]

46. I heard him on Randi Rhodes

and that pretty much sums it up -- get over it, I've got mine, let's move forward. I don't know much about him, but that told me everything I need to know. I will try to reserve SOME judgement, but my instincts say just another politician.

[talk hard]

42. Obama rocks

Barack Obama is the ONLY good thing the Democratic Party has going for it. His future is bright. Gonna keep my eye on him.

[saracat]

44. Yeah well, He praised the Bush Campaign to the skies

and skewered Kerry for windsurfing and not connecting with the common folks. He has a lot of ego for a guy with only one federal race under his belt. And he really respects the Bushies. This makes me sick.

[Voltaire99]

48. He's also very pro-Iraq war.

Between dining with the Bushies and praising the war effort, Obama isn't doing a whole hell of a lot to distinguish himself from the Repukes.

If he keeps up this appeasement, he'll go far.

[Raskolnik]

52. I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.

Scratch that, I'm SURE you don't know what you're talking about.

[carpe diem]

71. is this what you mean by pro iraq war?...

Iraq Speech
Saturday, October 26, 2002

..."I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism.What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perles and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Roves to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income – to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone thru the worst month since the Great Depression.

That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics."
......

"You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil, through an energy policy that doesn’t simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair.

The consequences of war are dire, the sacrifices immeasurable. We may have occasion in our lifetime to once again rise up in defense of our freedom, and pay the wages of war. But we ought not – we will not – travel down that hellish path blindly. Nor should we allow those who would march off and pay the ultimate sacrifice, who would prove the full measure of devotion with their blood, to make such an awful sacrifice in vain."
........

The entire speech is here:
http://www.obamaforillinois.com/index.asp?Type=B_PR&SEC={5CA3FD64-627D-4F7D-8264-4305CB8EF30A}&DE={5D342B62-154C-4FE6-910B-12B9C3CBB26A}

[bklyncowgirl]

49. Please let's stop eating our own.

Barak Obama is one of the few success stories this year and even before the guy takes office people are lining up to take shots at him.

Senator elect Obama attends a breakfast with the President for all freshman Senators--immediately people are saying he's sold out.

Senator elect Obama, along with John Kerry and all of the other major leaders of the Democratic party, including our favorite firebrands Howard Dean and Al Sharpton, does not break with the leadership to endorse the theory that the election was stolen--he's obviously just more of the same.

Senator elect Obama signs an agent for a book deal--Whoa now the guy's really sold out. He's actually going to write a book!

Please let's cut he man some slack. He may turn out to be a show pony and an appeasement minded DINO but if people have pinned all of their hopes and dreams for a progressive revival on one politican that's pretty pitiful. At least let's let him get into office and see what he does before beating the crap out of him.

[Mira]

50. Obama was Classy-Funny-Brilliant on Letterman

Are we better off with him or without him?
He is someone I happily pin hope on, and will watch with support and pride.
He has few, if any, equals at this point.

[saracat]

57. So it is okay to congratulate the Bush campaign and to bring up

windsurfing in the Kerry campaign as illustrative of a disconnect between the voters and Kerry? He called the Bush Campaign "brilliant" I assume you are also for reaching across the aisle at this point? And think their are moderate Dems who can be persuaded? I also think it is classless for Obama , who hasn't proved himself yet , to be offering any public assessment of the Kerry Campaign.

[loyalsister]

60. C'mon

He made was asked and had to respond. He made a totally reasonable point about the windsurfing. A solitary sport as a way of "connecting" with people? It's a pretty stark contrast to "Mr. likable."
The Bush campaign was brilliant because he is coniving politician. It's not an endearing quality or a compliment. He speaks a dialect of English that is inconsistant with his goals and constituents. It is a great con. On top of that, they convinced people to vote based on "moral issues" that will never effect their lives.
When I was watching Obama, I was thinking about all of the class, dignity, and civility that emanates from him and how it stands in such stark contrast to Bushco. His role may be to help define us as better by letting people finally see who Bush is by contrast. Obama may be the guy who turns on the lights.

[saracat]

62. Yeah. Real class. He certainly didn't'have" to respond in the manner

he did. A gentleman would have demurred. He is in no position to publicly dis Kerry for ANY reason. He is a neophyte and it is not approriate. Period. Talk about drinking the cool aid. I suppose that some people want to believe that Obama is the answer so badly that anything he does is explained away. Maybe Zell Miller is only exaggerating. After all, Zell was a good democrat who just thought Bush was a better candidate than Kerry. I suppose in retrospect Zell was correct?

[Kilkenny5]

63. No, he was absolutely right

You cannot keep your head in the sand forever. He made a constructive criticism about Kerry. He couldn've pounded even more (Swift Boat criticism, waiting too late to attack Bush on the war) but he didn't.

If you can't take criticism then don't get involved in politics

[saracat]

64. It isn't a question of taking criticism, it is a question of having

"class' and displaying some manners. It is not getlemanly to demean your party leader on national TV. But whatever, I guess you don't need manners anymore. Too antiquated along with the Geneva Conventtion. Odd though, he has a surplus of 'manners" when referring to Bush in a very gentlemanly manner. That has always worked so well for us don't you think?

[Raskolnik]

65. How did he "demean" Kerry?

And what exactly did he do that wasn't classy in your opinion? He admitted a mistake by his own party. That's the way grown-ups act.

[loyalsister]

66. That's the way grown ups act!

Exactly! That's the bottom line. He can be the leader who refutes the claim "the adults are back in charge." Noone else has been able to effectively or credibly been able to do it.
Since Obama won't have to be the guy leading the charge to block appointments, he can stand up with his fresh face and refusal to demonize and make them eat their own image and choke on it.

[saracat]

69. It wasn't his mistake to admit!

He can't either take reponsibility or pledge to fix it.

[Raskolnik]

74. Taking responsibility and pledging to fix what's wrong is bad?

You and I have a different view of responsible leadership, I'm afraid.

[saracat]

76. So Obama is going to apologise for Kerry's windsurfing and

will stop him from doing it again? WTF are you talking about? I was talking about windsurfing which is what Obama was talking about!

[Raskolnik]

80. A Democrat taking resposibility for Democrats' shortcomings? Unthinkable!?

Obama didn't say Kerry was a bad candidate, he didn't say Kerry was the wrong choice, and he didn't say that Kerry was a bad man. Obama simply acknowledged the elephant in the room by admitting that there was a disconnect between most voters and John Kerry. I really don't see that as being scandalous.

And why do you have such a problem admitting your opponents strong point? Bush IS a brilliant politician. He's a horrible President, but that just proves the point that as a pure politician, he really is very impressive. When Obama admitted that, he wasn't endorsing him, he was telling people that there's a *reason* that motherfucker won, and unless we address it, we'll keep getting our asses kicked.

[saracat]

83. Perfect example why we won't win. The Republicans

would NEVER congratulate us or admit we did anything well. They hang united and tough. They had a really hard time with Clinton, They only grudgingly gave him some respect as a politician. Even now they still blame him for everything. What Republican EVER gave Clinton credit for the economy? None. We would have given credit to a Republican if the situation were reversed and that is where we fail. Besides which, Bush isn't a brilliant politician and it is dubious that he won. I feel that praising a burgler for how well he broke into my house is a bit ridiculous. "But gosh ,it was a brilliant theft. He didn't get caught!" It just makes Osama sound stupid.

[Raskolnik]

91. "Besides which, Bush isn't a brilliant politician"

Well that's just a dumb thing to say. If you get elected President of the United States (almost) twice despite one of the worst records of any leader in our history, you are a fucking BRILLIANT politician. If we don't accept that, we will continue to be mauled by these assholes.

Once again, see if you can wrap your head around this: Admitting someone is a good politician is NOT an endorsement. Reagan was a very good politician, and Hitler had an undeniable genius for politics, but I'm not what you would call a fan of either.

And no offense, but I'm starting to doubt that you are really arguing in good faith on this one. (check your spelling) Perhaps when you buck a national trend and win a Senate race by record setting margins, you can give Obama some advice about what it takes to succeed in politics.

[saracat]

92. Didn't care for the burglar analogy ,eh?

Now , one might call Rove a 'brilliant tactician", but Bush? Please. That is such obvious pandering. And as for Obama's" bucking the national trend with record setting margins", you too, could do that if you were running virtually unopposed. The Republicans didn't have a candidate for god's sake. Ryan bit the dust with the sex scandal and they couldn't get anyone to run. It took them a month the get Keyes and he wasn't even from Illinois! No one, including the Repubs though Keyes was a real candidate. He was a joke. You make it sound like Obama fought a tough battle against a credible opponent! When Obama wins as many tough races as Kerry , then , maybe, privately, he can give Kerry advise.

[Raskolnik]

93. No, I didn't care for your spelling. Still don't.

I don't really need a refresher in Obama's Senate campaign, thanks.

You are setting this up as a Kerry vs. Obama fight. It isn't. It is intellectual honesty vs. burying your head in the sand. I can think of several instances of Kerry himself having the good sense to admit his party's mistakes and talking about how to fix them. That is a *good* thing.

I'll say this again: Obama didn't attack Kerry as a man or as a Democrat. He pointed out that the windsurfing picture was emblematic of Kerry's disconnect with most voters. You can take all the offense you like, but until we address that problem, we won't be winning any elections for a while.

And lets address the analogy you're so proud of: if a burglar evades an expensive security system, sneaks into my house and robs the place, then gets away scot-free, I'd say "I wish I hadn't been robbed, but that fucker was a pretty damn good burglar to do that." Does that sound like an endorsement, or an acknowledgement of facts?

[saracat]

94. Sounds like an endorsement. Admiration for the criminal. It sounds like

you might like to hire him. My spelling is fine. I can't type! I found some typo's. Big deal. I am not a typist.

[Raskolnik]

100. By your logic, "Evil Genius" is a compliment.

You can't honestly believe that what you wrote in your last post,so I'll assume you're just playing devil's advocate.

Your logic just doesn't hold up. Lets go though this one last time with the most extreme example possible*: Hitler was a very skilled politician. He was a genius at manipulating public opinion and preternaturally good at undestanding people better than they sometimes understood themselves. These are facts. Undeniable facts. Now, does this equate to an endorsement of what Hitler did with those skills? Certainly not.

In fact, I'll stretch this little analogy to the breaking point: part of the reason Hitler was so unbelievably successful in rising to power in Germany was that many of his opponents discounted his political skills were unwilling to take him seriously. They were unable, for whatever reason, to admit what was happening in front of their face, and things didn't turn out so well because of it. Wouldn't it have been great if someone from the opposition had stood up and said "this asshole Hitler sure is good at what he does, we better get get our act together if we have any hope of beating him?"

*(as a disclaimer, I am not saing Bush=Hitler, I am merely using Hitler as a logical extreme that disproves your argument that admitting someone's strong points is akin to endorsement)

[saracat]

101. Actually I think "evil genius" IS a compliment

as in "if not for his evil genius, the Third Reich would never have been formulated" or " Karl Rove is the evil genius behind the Bush Administration." And BTW you are the one with typo's this time! Grin! The particular phrase "evil genius " connotes admiration which constitutes a compliment. I do not think admitting an enemy's strong points is necessarily an endorsement, but when and where one admits such a thing makes a difference. If someone mentions such a thing in a strategy planning session on how to overthrow the enemy, it is obviously a pragmatic statement meant to be put to good use. To praise the enemy for having done a great job and congratulating him on his success in front of a nationwide audience, who will interpret such remarks as capitulation ,is not a sign of strength. Can you imagine Churchill congratulating Hitler on the Blitzkrieg? Can you imagine him saying "Wow , it was really brilliant how Hitler bombed the s-ht out of us when we didn't expect it"? I myself think the WW11 analogy is taken a bit too far, but I guess that is just my "evil genius!"

[Raskolnik]

103. Seriously, you can't actually believe that.

Because if you do, you really aren't a member of the reality-based community. I'll assume instead that you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, which is fun for a while, but has run its course in this instance.

(btw, it wasn't your typos that I thought were obnoxious, it was misspelling Obama's name in a particular way)

[saracat]

107. I assure you I am a "member of the reality based community!"

And I do believe what I am saying. On the other hand, I have enjoyed our argument. I agree it has run its course as well. I checked my typo and you are right, I didn't notice that. I owe an apology to both you and Obama! BTW, not that it makes a difference, but I ran a mini poll of about six different people and five thought "evil genius" was a form of compliment, in the sense that it is an expression of respect for the ability to cause evil! It has been fun! I guess we must agree to disagree. And I won't even question your sanity because we do so. LOL!

[Kilkenny5]

70. What did you want him to say?

George Bush is a fascist dictator?

Come on, give me a break!

Even Clinton was known for his diplomacy in the verge of his enemies.

[saracat]

77. But Obama didn't express diplomacy to his own party.

It is not correct behavior to praise Bush while criticizing Kerry. What I would have wanted him to do was demur the issue. He shouldn't be discussing what went well or didn't regarding a campaign with which he wasn't involved. He didn't have to go out of his way to praise Bush, He could have even congratulated him, but to call his campaign "brilliant" went over the line. Bush ran a dirty vicious campaign and ought not to be praised for it.

[420inTN]

88. Is Kerry the party leader? n/t

[imenja]

90. Clinton is still party leader

I believe he has more influence than Kerry

[saracat]

95. Officially Kerry is the standard bearer.

[420inTN]

96. WAS the standard bearer...

now, a new one needs be found.

Had Obama been critical of Kerry on national tv before the election, I would have agreed with your argument. However, since the election is (apparently) over, I believe that Obama is free to criticize Kerry. After all, this is still (somewhat) a free country. After all, Obama and Kerry are (soon to be) "peers".

[saracat]

97. Still counting the votes. And Jesse Jackson said

Kerry told him his original inclination was to believe that information he had been given election night but now they have new information. Sooo. And BTW, he would remain standard bearer until the new nominee.Al Gore was the previous standard bearer until replaced by Kerry.

[420inTN]

99. Re: Al Gore was the previous standard bearer until replaced by Kerry...

So, what does it mean for the party if the "standard bearer" disappears for two years after losing?

Was Dewey still a standard bearer after losing to Truman, or Nixon after losing to Kennedy in '60, or Dukakis after his race? No, they weren't (imho). Once you lose, you've dropped the "standard". Perhaps you are still carrying it, or toting it on your back, but you aren't bearing it. Again, the preceding is only my opinion.

Now, if Kerry does manage to win challenges, and overturn the predicted results, then Obama may have to eat some crow. However, from what I've read of his statements, Obama was more critical of Kerry's campaign, than the candidate. There is a difference. Saying, "I don't think that Kerry ran his campaign as effectively as possible," is not the same as saying "I think that Kerry was the wrong candidate, and didn't have a chance."

[loyalsister]

67. He didn't have to give an answer you didn't like

- no, I guess not.
But, that doesn't invalidate his opinion. Which, is probably based on some considerable experience that may extend beyond yours since he's won an election or two.
Kerry is a politician. He is willing to put up with being publicly criticized. If we don't have a dialogue about possible mistakes why even keep running Democrats?
You sound like someone who thinks kids should not receive any evaluation or guidance when learning.

[saracat]

68. We get little enough MSM exposure and

it shouldn't be one of our freshly anointed stars criticizing our standard bearers campaign before the votes have even been finished counting. I disagree a lot with things Kerry has done and absolutely with the DNC and the DLC but I would never go on MSM and say so.( I feel safe saying this ,as I doubt anyone will ask me to! LOL!) The repukes NEVER do that to their own! And I believe in criticism and debate, but not about ourselves in front of the national media. We must have dialog but between ourselves about the fate of the party et al. We don't need to include the other side in our discussions. And since you made the "kid" reference let me make a family one. This is like washing dirty linen in public, which is back to manners. And to address another point, I said this was Obama first"federal" election. He certainly is entitled to his opinion and lack of experience does not invalidate it, but it in no way qualifies him to be an expert strategist for a presidential campaign. And watch it with the assumptions. I have actually worked on more federal campaigns than Obama! :)

[Raskolnik]

61. Yes and yes.

Being honest with people usually is the best way to go. Whatever we think of Bush's policies and goals, he undeniably ran an extremely savvy campaign. Kerry, not so much. Admitting those things isn't endorsing them, its just acknowledging facts.

I *want* my representatives to be members of the reality-based community.

[carpe diem]

72. Obama gave a very mild and somewhat ...

...humerous response to the question he was asked. He in no way skewered or demeaned Kerry. He made an observation that had been noted previously on numerous occasions by many people on both sides because it was true. That was not the best "sporting image" for Kerry to project. It shouldn't matter when it comes to voting, but sadly, that kind of thing sticks in peoples' minds.

Anyway, Obama hardly ripped the Kerry campaign a new one and DID NOT make the criticisms he could have and that Letterman was trying to coax him into. He turned it into and lighthearted joke and moved on.

[saracat]

78. He called the vicious ,lying Bush Campaign "brilliant"

That is ass kissing.

[carpe diem]

81. from the purely political animal perspective...

...,it was brilliant in that it was effective. It was mean-spirited, hateful and dishonest, but it got the job done...and now they get to call the shots.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

102. Hate to say it but Obama's been drinking the Kool-Aid

I have to agree with saracat, I was soooo disappointed in this guy. He swallows the GOP bullsh** and parrots the Rove "windsurfing" line about Kerry???
Like most other Dems, I was captivated by his performance at the convention, but this Letterman appearance was sickening and spineless.

[Raskolnik]

110. "sickening and spineless"?

Maybe you should save the strong language. Someone admitting what everyone in America already knows isn't exactly spineless. NOT admitting it would have been the stupid thing to do, because it would show that we are just as intellectually dishonest as W's team.

I don't want that. I want to be better than them. Obama IS better than them, and I'm glad he's showing it.

[saracat]

58. Break with the leadership?

What leadership are you referring to? All the names you mention are the leadership! And Kerry Dean and Sharpton have not come out and said the election was "not stolen" . If they do then they are toast as well.I don't cut Clinton a break for "stop whining" There is no way I am going to think it is okay for Obama to praise the Bush campaign and comment negatively on our standard bearer when he hasn't even taken office yet. Obama should apologize.

[Kilkenny5]

79. NO HE SHOULDN'T!

He is entitled to his opinion. So what if he said Kerry windsurfed, he said it in jest.

As a matter of fact, the New Jersey Black Ministers Coalition also criticized Kerry for windsurfing as well. How come you're not criticizing them.

[saracat]

82. I would have. I didn't know they did! LOL! But they have about the same

level of expertise to judge a presidential campaign. They also don't have the same obligation as a new "party leader" to promote their party and not the opposition. And he isn't entitled to his opinion on MSM. We ought to be hanging together and supporting each other on MSM. And everyone is criticizing me for not supporting Obama on a discussion board, but he can criticize Kerry on MSM and is entitled to his opinion. I think the moderate Dems have all gone mad.

[chiburb]

53. The Illinois Leader is a right-wing web site who's publisher backed Keyes.

This source of LBN may as well be Newsmax or FreeRepublic. Nice to see so many DUers buying into their spin...

"The IllinoisLeader.com editorial staff is unique in that we are out-of-the-closet conservative activists as well as journalists, unlike our mainstream liberal counterparts who pretend they’re not who they are."

:wtf:

[barb162]

55. did you ever go on their discussion boards? Hilarious/sick

at the same time. A lot of them really love Alan Keyes. Some real whackjobs there.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

75. Don't worry about Obama...

He's not the bribeable type. He's also the kind of man we need to help unify this country again...not by swinging right, as his predecessors did; but by understanding the opposition, and what makes them tick.

[moondust]

98. Stay off small planes.

The White War and Profit Party is no doubt quietly making plans for this young star.