Rumsfeld endorses Boy Scouts support

[rainbow4321]

http://tinyurl.com/4kn7x


WASHINGTON, Nov. 25 (UPI) -- U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has spoken out in support of military bases sponsoring Boy Scout troops, the Washington Times said Thursday.

At issue is a lawsuit by the American Civil Liberties Union that claims the government sponsorship violates religious freedoms since the Boy Scouts require members to pledge allegiance to God.

In a partial settlement, the Justice Department, representing the Pentagon, agreed to warn military commanders not to officially sponsor Scout units.

In response to letters of complaint from at least three conservative Republicans, Rumsfeld voiced his support for the sponsorships.

[The Straight Story]

1. see also

Recognizing the Boy Scouts - Hon. Barbara Lee (voted for H.Res 853)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1385404



yeas 391, nays 3, not voting 38 - HRES 853, Recognizing Boy Scouts

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1385600&mesg_id=1385600

[coloradodem2005]

2. I've known Boy Scouts who are atheists.

I run into a conflict of interest these days with scouts. I am an Eagle Scout and the things I did with scouting were seriously the best times of my life. But, they are getting backing from conservatives, which irritates me. Obviously I am not a conservative or I would not post here.

Though, could someone tell me what the problem is here? I don't quite see it. Maybe I am a little biased because of my time in the scouts.

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. It's the oath, by my understanding.

Of course, to an atheist any oath to serve God is just meaningless noise, but that doesn't mean we would want to lie in an oath.

Particularly because our oaths and promises are based on our selves rather than on fear of some guy in the sky, most atheists I've ever met, myself included, want to be very scrupulous about holding to the truth. For me to violate an oath is a violation of my self, and it would offend me to no end if I was forced to swear to faith in a god I don't believe exists; if I had to choose between swearing or leaving, I'd leave, which I would also resent.

Of course, I am decades past such a situation and never got past the lowest rung of cub scouts, at which point my den mother had a breakdown and the pack never reformed under new management.

[rainbow4321]

4. Church/state issue?

I'm thinking the problem is that in the eyes of the ACLU if you have someone in a government/military position telling a group of boys that they HAVE to pledge allegiance to God, it violates the rights of those boys who practice a religion that doesn't do so or any athiests, etc..

BUT, it is very late and I am tired so I may be missing the point, also...it was just my first thought when I initially read the article.

[Voltaire99]

5. In response to your question

This is a First Amendment case because the Scouts require religious oaths for membership. When military (i.e., government) bases sponsor Scouts, the government is unconstitutionally sponsoring religion.

Apart from this case, we can see a growing cultural problem with scouting, too. In recent years the Boy Scouts has aligned itself with intolerance (against homosexuality) and now militarism (Pentagon sponsorship). Rumsfeld's intervention aligns scouting explicitly with the Bush administration.

And so the organization in which you had such good times is now serving as a tool of reactionary politics. Arguably it was never an outpost of liberalism; and that's fine. But why, some of us ask, should it become an outpost of violent right wing ideology? Camping, carving, and cookouts should be devoid of politics period.

[Nevernose]

6. I was a Boy Scout, too, and we spent a lot of time on military bases

Part of it was that rah-rah patriotism thing, and part of it was just because empty barracks were a convenient place to sleep on the way to long-distance campsites.

It's also my understanding that in addition to making every member "do their duty, to God and their country" they don't accept gays, either.

Like you, I've got really mixed feelings about this. Atheism and homosexuality are just fine in my book, but it's the BOY SCOUTS for Chrissakes. This is a lose-lose argument for liberals.

[sandnsea]

9. My problem with it

Is that it's just a tad too much like the Soviet Young Pioneers, and other state sponsored youth groups. I suppose it depends just how much sponsoring the military is doing.

[genieroze]

7. I'm having a bigger problem with this other than religion.

Having the military sponsor boy scouts? Sounds to me that they are looking for future cannon fodder. Am I the only one thinking this?
I was a girl scout and we never had anything to do with the military.

[daleo]

8. First thing I thought of was the military implications

Rumsfeld is making 50+ age people go to Iraq, why not go for 16 and under? I suppose I am just an idealist, but I think scouting ought to be aligned with environmental causes, not the military. Although I am aware the Baden-Powell served in the Boer War.

[sandnsea]

10. We didn't live on bases

Seems to me a couple Girl Scout leaders I talked to went to scouts on military bases overseas. Also, if memory serves the Boy Scouts are always tied to a group. A church, VFW, Legion, something. Girl Scout troops are never specifically sponsored by anybody. Maybe that's the difference.

[Conservativesux]

11. Boy Scouts: The Next Hitler...err.. Bush Youth Corps.

Start indoctrinating them young, Bush needs more bodies for his war in Iraq. b:(