US 'losing war of ideas'

[cal04]

THE US is losing the war of ideas in the Islamic world, failing to elucidate its policies to Muslims wary of American intentions and "self-serving hypocrisy", a Pentagon advisory panel has found.
The Defence Science Board, in a report made available today, urged the creation of a "strategic communication" apparatus within the White House and an overhaul of public diplomacy, public affairs and information dissemination efforts by the Pentagon and State Department.


"The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favour of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the long-standing, even increasing, support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan and the Gulf states." "Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy," the report stated.

The Bush administration has portrayed the war in Iraq launched last year as a mission to bring democracy to that country in the hope that it could serve as a model to others in the Middle East.
US intervention in the Muslim world, including wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, had actually elevated the stature of radical enemies of America, the report stated.

"In the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering. US actions appear in contrast to be motivated by ulterior motives, and deliberately controlled in order to best serve American national interests at the expense of truly Muslim self-determination," the report stated. The Defence Science Board is made up of civilian experts appointed by the Pentagon, and offers the department advice on scientific, technical and other matters.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11493307%255E1702,00.html

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. We have no credibility

of course we can't win any wars.

[rainbow4321]

17. Nutshell: Shrub can't spin non-US media...

Our media falls for his lies and then pushes his bullshit onto us...he'll probably make Faux News Network the one and only station in every country that the he plans to invade.

[Voltaire99]

40. What are American "ideas" vis-a-vis Islam, anyway?

Starve, bomb, invade, torture?

These aren't ideas; they're excrescences.

[Mr_Spock]

46. Yes, that's it!!!!!!!!!! Kill them all and they will see things our way

Six feet under.

[freedom_to_read]

2. In the long run

the war of ideas always beats the war of boots and steel. Look at the Soviet Union.

the sad thing is the people in charge right now don't care about ideas.

[teach1st]

3. Bush doesn't have much ammo left for the war of ideas...

His people are pretty good with perception management stateside, but it doesn't work well on those outside the US media's influence.

[maxsolomon]

4. i could have told them that for a whole lot less

i could have told them that after the USS Cole bombing.

drill & kill is not an idea.

[tabasco]

5. Do idiot repugs really believe we're going to convert ...

the entire Middle East into America-loving democracies? INSANE.

The freepers love the idea of conquering the ragheads but they are not flocking to join the infantry.

The Iraq debacle has damaged our Nation and we will be paying the price for decades.

[barb162]

28. and we are going to turn them from Islam, make them Christians.

[0rganism]

6. US losing war of ideas in the Scientific world, too

By turning against evolution, global warming, stem cell research, and sound fiscal policy, the American government has shown that it cares nothing for evidence and everything for ideology.

[cliss]

9. How true. I just read an article in the

Harvard Business Review, and it said essentially the same thing. It said we're losing our creative edge. Bright people are either leaving the US or decide not to come here. It cited "political reasons". That's about as strong a statement as I've ever read coming from Harvard. Seems even they know the score.

[eridani]

31. You can buy it online if you want

http://harvardbusinessonline.hbsp.harvard.edu/b02/en/common/item_detail.jhtml?id=R0410H

Summary--

The strength of the American economy does not rest on its manufacturing prowess, its natural resources, or the size of its market. It turns on one factor--the country's openness to new ideas, which has allowed it to attract the brightest minds from around the world and harness their creative energies. But the United States is on the verge of losing that competitive edge. As the nation tightens its borders to students and scientists and subjects federal research funding to ideological and religious litmus tests, many other countries are stepping in to lure that creative capital away. Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, and others are spending more on research and development and shoring up their universities in an effort to attract the world's best--including Americans. If even a few of these nations draw away just a small percentage of the creative workers from the United States, the effect on its economy will be enormous. In this article, the author introduces a quantitative measure of the migration of creative capital called the Global Creative-Class Index. It shows that, far from leading the world, the United States doesn't even rank in the Top 10 in the percentage of its workforce engaged in creative occupations. What's more, the baby boomers will soon retire. And data showing large drops in foreign-student applications to U.S. universities and in the number of visas issued to knowledge workers, along with concomitant increases in immigration in other countries, suggest that the erosion of talent from the United States will only intensify. To defend the U.S. economy, the business community must take the lead in ensuring that global talent can move efficiently across borders, that education and research are funded at radically higher levels, and that we tap into the creative potential of more and more workers. Because wherever creativity goes, economic growth is sure to follow.

[Just Me]

13. Slipping quickly in business world, humanitarian world, intellectual,...

,...world and the real world.

I still cannot digest that these gawd-awful people are still ruling this country. It's simply stunning.

[Briar]

7. Fundamentally, Bush's America has only one idea:

America First.

[Laelth]

10. Um, really?

To be honest, I'd be pleased if Bush's policies were designed to put America first. From my perspective, He's putting America last. It's himself, his rich buddies, and Armageddon that he seems to be putting first.

:shrug:

-Laelth

[Deja Q]

19. And is he so stupid that if the dollar is worthless, so are his friends?

:shrug:

As he ties our nooses, he's tying his own.

Funny thing, symbiosis.

[Laelth]

24. Oh, don't worry about that.

He and his buddies are heavily investing in Halliburton, foreign corporations, and foreign currencies as we speak. They won't go down with the American ship. Their assets will be protected. Have no fear of that.

No, it will be the poor and the middle class, those of us who can't shelter our piddly assets in foreign currencies and markets, who will take the hit when the dollar collapses and Bush's policies create a global depression. Bush and his buddies fully intend to buy up as much of America as they can as soon as our economy collapses and we're all selling our remaining assets for dirt just so we can feed our families.

Charming thought, no? :mad:

-Laelth

[jokerman93]

35. Hence

...our great coming "Ownership Society".

[KansDem]

15. Yeah, it's very similar to the "My country, right or wrong"...

Except in this case, it's "My country, wrong or really wrong"

Mmmmm...possible bumper sticker?

[Straight Shooter]

22. How about, "My country, right or dead wrong"

:shrug:

[burrowowl]

41. The rest of the

phrase: My country right or wrong ... is ... When Wrong to be made Right.
As to ideas: the U$ of A and Bu$hco have ideas! I thought they had biases and prejudices and fundie-wacko beliefs.

[buddysmellgood]

8. the creation of a "strategic communication" apparatus within the White

House---- I believe that new bunker busting nuclear missile was part of the new apparatus.
What horseshit

[Mojambo]

11. "Muslims do not hate our freedom"

Finally! Someone loudly declares that Bush's favorite little line is utter and complete BULLSHIT.

Nothing bothers me as much as that notion, "They hate freedom."

As David Cross says, "If they really hated freedom, then the Netherlands would be dust!"

[gratuitous]

12. Of course we're losing in the war of ideas

Our country's leadership has no ideas. Beyond "me first." I can't blame any outside observer who thinks that the U.S. is on an imperialistic rampage. There's damn little evidence to the contrary.

[cliss]

34. I agree. As I was working today, I kept thinking

about "Chainsaw Al". Does anybody else remember him? This is a man who gained fame in the 90's as a Corporate Restructure Dude who made millions by taking over companies and "saving" them, or moving them to more profitability.

They showed a movie of him (I forget his real name) as he shifted into high gear, got into the internal workings of a corporation. Soon he laid off 5,000 people, moved the company's plant to Mexico, and PRESTO the company was profitable. Or, he just sold off less profitable divisions and "led" the company to glory.

The current administration reminds me of Chainsaw Al. They're not creating anything of value. They're just restructuring, shuffling money to themselves.


They're definitely not creating value.

[Buns_of_Fire]

43. That would be Al Dunlap

...and a piece of work he is, too.

It's easy to hate Dunlap for the wrong reason, which is that he is a brutal, heartless, arrogant bastard...

But there is a right reason to hate Dunlap, which is this: He's not as good as he looks. Dunlap does not know how to build a company. If capitalism is "creative destruction," Dunlapism is simply destruction. He prettifies struggling companies for Wall Street, but undermines them in the long term. Both Barron's and Business Week have chronicled how Dunlap has built his "turnarounds" on cosmetic measures designed to pump up stock prices. At Sunbeam and Scott, he has sold assets to raise quick cash, cut prices to artificially boost sales, and squeezed suppliers for short-term savings at the price of long-term reliability. His R&D cuts have come at a time when other American companies are investing in new technology. He uses PR brilliantly: Hill and Knowlton tout him relentlessly to reporters and investors, winning him an adulatory profile that serves him well. The day he was hired, for example, Sunbeam stock jumped 59 percent on his reputation alone. (Another example: Within an hour of my call to Sunbeam HQ for information on Dunlap, I received five voice mail messages from three Sunbeam flacks.) Dunlap's companies, too, rely heavily on short-term marketing campaigns and advertising. What he does not do is spend time developing new products, nurturing talent, and cultivating customers. Why? Because he never sticks around a company long enough for that to matter.

http://slate.msn.com/id/1830/

What better role model for the current "CEO pResident?" :puke:

[belab13]

14. criticizing China and other countries for civil rights violations just

doesn't seem to have that zing anymore. Hmm I wonder why?

[sushi]

16. I can't believe

it hasn't got through the heads of those in charge that the world has changed. Those considered backwards, who were easy to dominate in the past, are now asserting themselves. They are also definitely no longer backward. They can make bombs now or soon, or they can buy them! The West, led by the US, can no longer just give orders to people in other countries and expect them to just follow.

The New York writer of the special letter wrote "I see America as one nation in a world of nations. Therefore, I think we should try to get along with other nations." Exactly, and not bully them, or bomb and destroy their country, causing the death of their innocent people.

The invasion of Iraq was a big, BIG mistake. Are people in the red states starting to realize this or are they backward?

[Deja Q]

18. All of our ideas have been offshored. We are rotting from within.

Pity.

[barb162]

20. correction to the first line of the post

"THE US LOST the war of ideas in the Islamic world...."

[catzies]

21. They'll all be fired by COB Friday.

n/t

[Gloria]

23. Meanwhile, here in the US...the ideas are RETRO.....no real

thinking aloud, and god forbid you are a scientist....

[rainbow4321]

25. Christian in Iraq threatened

Huh, shrub seems to leave THIS out of his speeches when he tells us things are oh so rosy over there..


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/iraq/culture/111204cccairaqchristians.4f476880.html



BAGHDAD, Iraq — There are signs of growing intolerance in Iraq toward Christians. Most of Iraq's 29 million citizens are Muslim but nearly 1 million are Christian. And some of them say they've been targeted by threats. The message: get into line or get out.

Numerous Christian churches have been attacked in Baghdad in recent months. In the northern city of Mosul -- which used to pride itself on tolerance -- Christians say they've been told if they don't convert, they'll lose their homes.

Women report getting death threats for not conforming to the Islamic dress code. One of them says they're being told, "Cover your hair or we will kill you."

[LudwigVan]

42. Wahhabism strikes again.

Bush's buddies the Saudis were looking forward to this, doing to Iraq what they did to Afghanistan and Sudan. Of course the Christians of Iraq are mostly Assyrian-Chaldean, and the Dominionists need to get them "saved" by any means necessary.

Christians and Muslims were getting along fine in Iraq until now.

[LynnTheDem]

44. Christians in Iraq were doing well BEFORE bush's invasion

Until bush, Cartel, and the American talibornagains gave "Christian" such a sick filthy disgusting shameful name.

[Zorra]

26. That's because when you are consistently FOS people stop listening to you.

[not fooled]

32. except for 59 mil morans right here EOM

[0007]

27. Thank you for the Amy Goodman link, cal04, the mods locked

that thread before I had a chance to thank you.

[cal04]

39. 0007, you're very welcome

She has some great stuff on her site

[0007]

47. She sure does. I'd like for the country to see "The Convoy of Death"

[barb162]

29. can we get out of Iraq already (since we're making things worse)

From the linked article:

"In the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering."

[DianeG5385]

30. I'm puzzled, then why is the GOP winning the war of "ideas" here

in the good 'ol USA?

[noshenanigans]

37. Because they're liars-

and the red-staters here are too busy working their factory jobs for reduced overtime to care.

When the US "turned Iraq over to the Intermediary Council".. what changed? Nothing. The same, and even more amount of bloodshed of American Troops doing what they think they should be (and in many cases, what they don't think they should be but do anyway).

What's going to happen after they have "elections"?

[Cocoa]

33. all right, Defense Science Board

you just got yourself added to the Axis of Evil.

[Candide]

38. LMAO!

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Donkeyboy75]

45. We're fighting a war with guns instead.

This is Bush's America. Why do we care about ideas? <sarcasm/>