Reply #15: So it's just "differences of opinion" that allow them to stone gays? [View All]

[liberalpragmatist]

Look, I'm not calling for imposing our culture on Muslim societies - I believe that things like equal rights for women and gays will eventually come through those societies. That's how I feel about democracy too.

However, I reject the idea that religious tolerance, equality for women, minorities, and homosexuals, freedom of speech, and justice is something that doesn't apply to fundamentalist Muslims because they have "a different culture." When said in such a context it's little other than turning a blind eye towards human rights abuses (and no, I don't claim that we have a perfect record either).

In any event, I think you misunderstood the context of my post. I wasn't and am not arguing for war with the Muslim world. I am talking specifically about confronting Al Qaeda. A large part of that will be addressing the specific foreign policy grievances of the Arab and Muslim worlds, but it also needs to take into account that the core of Al Qaeda is made up of people who hate us for more than our foreign policy. They DO hate what we represent - as the most powerful Western nation, we embody Western values. While those Western "values" ARE often deplorable (rampant commercialism for example), they also attack general enlightenment values. They conveniently use foreign policy grievances within the Muslim community to recruit supporters and tie their struggle with their wider Muslim anger at the US. But for the core supporters of Al Qaeda, people like Bin Laden and his inner circle, their primary beef is with modernization and things like equality for women, gay rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion - they oppose those ideas and ultimately that core will not be appeased through foreign policy changes alone - that core needs to be pursued with an understanding that they are fanatics who do hate modern culture and want to see it destroyed.

I'm not arguing for forcibly going in and restructuring Muslim societies in some neo-colonial adventure, which is what your post implies that I said. What I'm simply saying is that the core of Al Qaeda is made up of people who cannot be appeased. We can take the wind out of their supporters by acknowledging specific grievances but we also have to vigorously go after the core and the cells that already exist.