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cowcommander (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 04:07 AM Original message |
Did Reagan really "defeat" the Soviet Union? |
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Sherman A1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 04:16 AM Response to Original message |
1. At the very best he might have hurried it along, but in the |
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bulloney (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 11:05 AM Response to Reply #1 |
40. I would agree with your assessment, Sherman. The Soviet Union was falling apart |
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starroute (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 11:05 AM Response to Reply #1 |
41. Andrei Amalrik's Will the Soviet Union Survive Until 1984? |
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Sherman A1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 03:02 PM Response to Reply #41 |
55. That sounds about right |
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Skittles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 04:21 AM Response to Original message |
2. fuck no he didn't |
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Art_from_Ark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 05:47 AM Response to Reply #2 |
7. He wasn't even prez when it happened |
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Skittles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 05:49 AM Response to Reply #7 |
8. so I should have said |
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Art_from_Ark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 06:02 AM Response to Reply #8 |
9. I took a couple of classes on the Soviet Union in the '70s |
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Skittles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 06:04 AM Response to Reply #9 |
10. yes; I've heard the same from Russians themselves |
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Rhiannon12866 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 04:31 AM Response to Original message |
3. Reagan actually caused the Soviet government to become more repressive, IMO. |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 02:30 PM Response to Reply #3 |
50. Back in the sixties I was attached to an information gathering |
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Rhiannon12866 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 06:50 AM Response to Reply #50 |
68. When I was there in 1986, they were in trouble, but not as bad as I expected. |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 09:59 AM Response to Reply #68 |
74. We were enamored with the "Chile miracle" and wanted to replicate it |
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Lasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 04:31 AM Response to Original message |
4. In reality, Reagan did nothing to bring down the Soviet Union. |
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alfredo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 02:49 PM Response to Reply #4 |
53. I remember back in the sixties, they had few computers and |
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DeSwiss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 05:02 AM Response to Original message |
5. No. He just dreamed that he did during one of his many daily naps. n/t |
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denbot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 05:39 AM Response to Original message |
6. The person, if there was one person who broght down the U.S.S.R . |
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ngant17 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:18 AM Response to Reply #6 |
13. Glasnost and perestroika started the changes |
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primavera (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 10:44 AM Response to Reply #13 |
38. Precisely so |
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ngant17 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 12:47 PM Response to Reply #38 |
47. Raygun was a consistent negative, all in all |
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Brickbat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:36 PM Response to Reply #6 |
62. We lit candles. I remember that. |
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jmowreader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-04-11 02:39 AM Response to Reply #6 |
86. I'm going to change your narrative a little... |
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Richard Steele (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 06:12 AM Response to Original message |
11. The Soviet Union defeated itself. Reagan was just an actor who happened to be President at the time |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 06:16 AM Response to Original message |
12. no, the russian ruling class decided they'd be better off as capitalists. |
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eShirl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:21 AM Response to Original message |
14. oh, hell no |
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Robb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:32 AM Response to Original message |
15. Yes, in the same way the iceberg defeated Titanic. nt |
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Saboburns (690 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:36 AM Response to Original message |
16. This topic pisses me off, because it forgets to realize those millions of brave people |
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primavera (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 03:06 PM Response to Reply #16 |
56. Hear, hear |
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randr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:47 AM Response to Original message |
17. Rock and Roll had a larger roll than the ol gipper |
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Javaman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 04:06 PM Response to Reply #17 |
80. Stale bread had more of an effect than ray-gun... |
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undeterred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:53 AM Response to Original message |
18. There was an Al Franken commentary on SNL which explained it best- |
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cordelia (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:57 AM Response to Original message |
19. Hell, no. |
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sendero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:57 AM Response to Original message |
20. Afghanistan.. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:59 AM Response to Original message |
21. Better question, was the Soviet Union really a threat? |
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democrat2thecore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:40 PM Response to Reply #21 |
63. I agree the threat was USED for profit - but the USSR was most definitely a threat |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 08:35 AM Response to Reply #63 |
72. Yes, there was the nuclear threat, but it was vastly overblown. |
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democrat2thecore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 01:46 PM Response to Reply #72 |
77. It wasn't vastly overblown |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 04:26 PM Response to Reply #77 |
81. Yes, actually it was. |
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democrat2thecore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-04-11 01:23 AM Response to Reply #81 |
83. Difference of opinion? |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-04-11 09:31 AM Response to Reply #83 |
91. This isn't "Soviet Revisionism", this is fact |
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oldlib (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 08:09 AM Response to Original message |
22. Reagan did not stop the Cold War. |
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ProfessorGAC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 08:20 AM Response to Original message |
23. No. Ted Turner Did |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 04:27 PM Response to Reply #23 |
82. Ted Turner's satellite for INTERNATIONAL NEWS, cable. I want my MTV wasn't JUST aimed at US teens |
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Itchinjim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 08:49 AM Response to Original message |
24. The old hardline Stalinists dying off ended the cold war. |
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barbtries (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 08:55 AM Response to Original message |
25. i have shared your belief |
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Axrendale (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 08:56 AM Response to Original message |
26. I'm probably going to cop some flak for this, but Reagan did actually make an important contribution |
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Nye Bevan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 12:02 PM Response to Reply #26 |
46. I always enjoy thoughtful posts that do not necessarily concur with the DU conventional wisdom. |
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Axrendale (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 07:58 AM Response to Reply #46 |
70. You are most welcome. |
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democrat2thecore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:46 PM Response to Reply #26 |
64. Reagan as the "dove" in the administration in 2nd term - so true |
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Axrendale (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 08:03 AM Response to Reply #64 |
71. Thank you to you as well. |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 08:59 AM Response to Original message |
27. Reagan insured we would also collapse, only a bit later. Like now. |
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hulka38 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 09:04 AM Response to Original message |
28. No. |
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old mark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 09:10 AM Response to Original message |
29. The Soviet Union defeated itself. They spent so much of their GDP on their military and on |
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HopeHoops (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 09:32 AM Response to Original message |
30. Levi jeans had more to do with the collapse of the USSR than Reagan did. |
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WingDinger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 09:35 AM Response to Original message |
31. How the USSR, and sane men viewed Reagans paranoia |
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lpbk2713 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 09:37 AM Response to Original message |
32. RayGun was lucky, he was simply an observer. |
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GeorgeGist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 09:40 AM Response to Original message |
33. Reagan did the fancy speechifying ... |
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Darth_Kitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 09:51 AM Response to Original message |
34. You are right, the collapse was inevitable. |
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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 09:57 AM Response to Original message |
35. In the '80s, the USSR was in the same situation the USA is in now. |
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BOG PERSON (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 08:12 PM Response to Reply #35 |
67. "My ambition was to liquidate communism... |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 10:34 AM Response to Original message |
36. I don't believe he had the slightest interest in that. |
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Nevernose (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 10:39 AM Response to Original message |
37. Recommended book: |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 10:48 AM Response to Original message |
39. No. It simply imploded. |
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Arkana (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 11:11 AM Response to Original message |
42. Yep. Killed Hitler with his bare hands too. |
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primavera (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 02:57 PM Response to Reply #42 |
54. Lmao - don't give them any ideas! |
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elehhhhna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 11:49 AM Response to Original message |
43. Answer: Not unless he ordered their "war" in Afghanistan. |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 03:42 PM Response to Reply #43 |
58. Well that was Brzezinski, not Reagan. |
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slampoet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 11:56 AM Response to Original message |
44. Lech Walesa and Gorbachev had more to do with it than Reagan ever did. |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 12:00 PM Response to Original message |
45. The Western policies that speeded up the inevitable collapse were Ostpolitik and China alliance. |
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DailyGrind51 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 12:53 PM Response to Original message |
48. The Soviet Union was decaying from within for sometime, but the CIA was given misinformation |
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immoderate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 01:52 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. I think the CIA was inventing that information. |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 02:33 PM Response to Original message |
51. The Soviet Union defeated itself, and it was already well underway |
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MrMickeysMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 02:33 PM Response to Original message |
52. NO... actually, it was timing... all timing... |
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Lucian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 03:09 PM Response to Original message |
57. He single handedly did it himself. Video here: |
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BlueJazz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 08:08 PM Response to Reply #57 |
66. LOL! Reagan Smash |
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pnorman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 05:12 PM Response to Original message |
59. K & R! |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 05:21 PM Response to Original message |
60. Hardly. Gorbachev, Lech Walesa, and Afghanistan did. |
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jimlup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 07:34 PM Response to Original message |
61. CHERNOBYL |
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BOG PERSON (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-02-11 08:03 PM Response to Original message |
65. no, the soviet union voluntarily disbanded |
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underpants (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 06:54 AM Response to Original message |
69. The Poles (the Pope and Lech), economic ruin, Afghanistan, Chernobyl, Gorbachov |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 09:20 AM Response to Original message |
73. A couple of weeks ago, |
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democrat2thecore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 01:48 PM Response to Reply #73 |
78. I'm reading that now |
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Orsino (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 10:27 AM Response to Original message |
75. No. He was asleep at the time. n/t |
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democrat2thecore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-04-11 01:49 AM Response to Reply #75 |
85. Revisionist history - again. He was a "CEO-like" president. He delegated. |
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Orsino (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-04-11 08:50 AM Response to Reply #85 |
90. He didn't *care* what he was doing... |
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truebrit71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 10:28 AM Response to Original message |
76. Not even remotely close to reality... |
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Javaman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-03-11 04:01 PM Response to Original message |
79. The Soviet Union Defeated the Soviet Union. |
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democrat2thecore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-04-11 01:32 AM Response to Reply #79 |
84. I will remind you... |
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Javaman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-04-11 08:48 AM Response to Reply #84 |
89. And I will remind you, the topic was about ray-gun. If you want to talk about US policy |
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apocalypsehow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-04-11 03:13 AM Response to Original message |
87. His military build-up had an effect, but it was largely the "containment" policy of numerous |
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quaker bill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-04-11 06:29 AM Response to Original message |
88. A curious bit |
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marmar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-04-11 09:36 AM Response to Original message |
92. And how ironic that this country is going to collapse in much the same fashion...... |
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GalleryGod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-04-11 09:51 AM Response to Original message |
93. A cohort told me this in 1989, "We tripped a drunk, that's all." |
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