Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

hunter

(38,310 posts)
53. I'm pretty sure space/time is an aspect of mass/energy...
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 08:47 PM
Mar 2012

... as is information/consciousness. It's all mass/energy, nothing else. We can't see all of it, but that's not surprising because our brains are so tiny in comparison to the universe. There is no possibility that humans will ever figure it all out. We'll know more than dogs or carp do, but this knowledge will never amount to more than a tiny insignificant fraction of possible "knowledge."

Every dog I've ever known has been a conscious being, even those dogs that are only slightly smarter than carp. Carp are conscious beings also. Consciousness is a vertebrate trait. We can't relate to plants, invertebrates, or fungi, so in those cases we just don't know if they are conscious or not. Maybe, maybe not.

Frankly I don't think we're that special. Consciousness is simply a programming trick that keeps us from giving up in utter despair. Without consciousness reasonable beings would simply lie down in the dirt and stop living. Dirt to dirt. There would be no reason to continue. The more brain power you've got, the more consciousness you need to counteract rational motives for not living.

I've suffered major episodes of depression in my life so I'm very familiar with the sensation. Fortunately for me at my very worst, "No reason to live" ranks equally with "no reason not to." I might not eat for a couple of days, but I don't like the sensation of thirst or lack of oxygen, so I keep hydrated, and I keep breathing. Eventually I'll eat too. I've never felt any need to hurry the process of dying along. We all die eventually. Maybe I'm just lazy.

Sex is another one of those programming tricks discovered by natural selection. People are always having sex and reproducing even when there's no rational reason to do so, and very rational reasons not to. If we didn't have sex drives there wouldn't be any people. Same goes if we didn't have consciousness.

I don't have a good opinion of mystical experiences either. The most vivid I've experienced are those the police and health services called "psychotic episodes."

That doesn't mean I don't look at the universe and my fellow humans without a sense of awe and wonder, or that I don't have a spiritual side. I do. This stew of mass/energy inspires within me a great curiosity. But yet again, curiosity, like consciousness or sex drives, is just another programming trick stumbled upon by natural selection.

what causes it? qazplm Mar 2012 #1
I would think that the "cause" is-- digonswine Mar 2012 #3
So it goes longship Mar 2012 #5
that's not an answer qazplm Mar 2012 #21
Ego , the detour from Perspicacity orpupilofnature57 Mar 2012 #2
Please, go on-- digonswine Mar 2012 #4
If we have no reason, to reason orpupilofnature57 Mar 2012 #6
Here is what's so mysterious about it: napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #7
It doesn't start different jeff47 Mar 2012 #8
That's still weird. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #13
You are going to be in one jeff47 Mar 2012 #14
What is the "you" the ends up in one of the copies? napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #15
Making copies makes a copy of your consciousness. jeff47 Mar 2012 #19
you appear then qazplm Mar 2012 #22
I'm in the group that believes consciousness is just our brains doing their jobs jeff47 Mar 2012 #23
i dont think anyone in this thread qazplm Mar 2012 #27
Your question requires a magical consciousness jeff47 Mar 2012 #28
Yes, but which one is YOURS? napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #30
Your brain cells Shankapotomus Mar 2012 #32
I'm really not suggesting either way, I'm raising a fundamental question: napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #35
You are correct about I am saying Shankapotomus Mar 2012 #36
I respect that opinion. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #68
The one in the body you inhabit jeff47 Mar 2012 #40
delete nt napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #31
no it doesnt qazplm Mar 2012 #39
The heart was once a mystical organ given all sorts of magical powers. jeff47 Mar 2012 #41
oh please qazplm Mar 2012 #51
I'm saying due to our lack of understanding, people have leapt to magic. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2012 #52
saying it is mysterious and difficult to understand qazplm Mar 2012 #58
You might want to read the thread you're replying to jeff47 Mar 2012 #59
no qazplm Mar 2012 #64
If half your brain was replaced it would still be you Shankapotomus Mar 2012 #38
I get that- digonswine Mar 2012 #10
Trekkies have been debating this very scenario for decades. Angleae Mar 2012 #17
A copy. The original dies. laconicsax Mar 2012 #29
I think the rule of thumb here Shankapotomus Mar 2012 #37
We don't know how the brain really works. jeff47 Mar 2012 #9
Oh come on! Shankapotomus Mar 2012 #33
Comprehending 'self' has always been a mystery to philosophers, medicine and science. Lint Head Mar 2012 #11
My hypothesis is simple, and I can't really claim that it's orginal, because it isn't... Speck Tater Mar 2012 #12
Inexplicable works orpupilofnature57 Mar 2012 #16
Consciousness is a slippery word to define. Speck Tater Mar 2012 #20
Carl was a Sage ,his ' Baloney Test Kit ' orpupilofnature57 Mar 2012 #25
I think consciousness can be understood Shankapotomus Mar 2012 #34
You've explained the mechanism by which sensations REACH consciousness Speck Tater Mar 2012 #42
Fair enough Shankapotomus Mar 2012 #48
I honestly don't know the answer to that. Speck Tater Mar 2012 #49
As said tama Apr 2012 #79
Wasn't it Aristotle that said orpupilofnature57 Apr 2012 #80
Dunno, tama Apr 2012 #81
I'm a dumbass ,that's it !!!! Thanks orpupilofnature57 Apr 2012 #84
That "small step" you mention (and slide right past) is actually the Big Kahuna. GliderGuider Mar 2012 #46
I have yet to explore meditation but Shankapotomus Mar 2012 #47
When I meditate I perceive something that seems independent of thought and materiality GliderGuider Mar 2012 #50
Yes, this was exceedingly helpful Shankapotomus Mar 2012 #54
A couple of thoughts about meditation GliderGuider Mar 2012 #57
I've been reluctant to invest time in meditation Shankapotomus Mar 2012 #60
That's very well put! Speck Tater Mar 2012 #56
I'm pretty sure space/time is an aspect of mass/energy... hunter Mar 2012 #53
My best cure for "no reason to live"... Speck Tater Mar 2012 #55
I don't boil everything down to information, I boil it down to energy. hunter Mar 2012 #62
Ah, but we can never see energy. Speck Tater Mar 2012 #63
and the same can be said regarding love... hue Apr 2012 #77
What you say is true. It is also just another way of saying... Speck Tater Apr 2012 #78
Think about color. Jim__ Mar 2012 #18
Consciousness seems to be to be a primarily learned thing. MineralMan Mar 2012 #24
That's about how I feel about it- digonswine Mar 2012 #26
If you had ever done any serious meditation, for any length of time, Speck Tater Mar 2012 #43
Oh, dear... MineralMan Mar 2012 #44
You're welcome. Always glad to help. :) nt Speck Tater Mar 2012 #45
If I tell you I have meditated, that I know what you mean by when you talk about... Silent3 Apr 2012 #73
I think it's perfectly OK for two intelligent, well-informed people to disagree. Speck Tater Apr 2012 #74
Keep in mind that you said this... Silent3 Apr 2012 #75
Yes I did. Speck Tater Apr 2012 #76
yeah I dont think so qazplm Mar 2012 #70
Is your consciousness the same today as when you MineralMan Mar 2012 #71
The brain is a "radio"... RagAss Mar 2012 #61
I feel like you are using technical terms- digonswine Mar 2012 #65
Thank you. It was in keeping with the tone you set in your OP. RagAss Mar 2012 #67
Fine--I am usually more polite- digonswine Mar 2012 #69
Bad analogy aside, we're neither. laconicsax Mar 2012 #66
Why tama Apr 2012 #82
You're asking why I'm not making the same unsupported presuppositions you do. laconicsax Apr 2012 #83
Your bias tama Apr 2012 #85
What censorship are you talking about? FiveGoodMen Apr 2012 #86
Misuse of host's powers to lock discussions tama Apr 2012 #87
'Turn your radio on...' MineralMan Mar 2012 #72
Latest Discussions»Culture Forums»Science»What is so mysterious abo...»Reply #53