General Discussion

hunter

(38,311 posts)

40. I'm a Socialist and my economics are radical.

Tue Mar 24, 2015, 11:36 AM

Mar 2015

I understand our current economic system very well, thank you, and I abhor it.

What our economists today call "productivity" and "profit" is directly proportional to the damage we are doing to both earth's natural environment and the human spirit.

Large transfers of money should only occur with a focus on potential benefits for ALL PEOPLE and then only to projects that are sustainable and improve the overall environment for our own descendants, and the descendants of the other sentient life forms we share this planet with.

I've got no problem with private property or private investment, but I do think taxes ought to be steeply progressive on both income and wealth, such that it's impossible for an uber-wealthy class of people to arise; a class of people capable of buying and otherwise corrupting democratically elected government.

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In your opinion do Wall Street and the Investment Banks serve a societal purpose? [View all] el_bryanto Mar 2015 OP

where is the "Hell No!" option? n/t PowerToThePeople Mar 2015 #1

Sorry about that el_bryanto Mar 2015 #3

choice #2. n/t PowerToThePeople Mar 2015 #7

Of course they do. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #2

I don't know about 60 years; rather more money would have to be set aside up front el_bryanto Mar 2015 #8

Bond issuance is precisely the method Investment Banks perform ... A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #15

Bond proceeds - when you issue a bond for a public project el_bryanto Mar 2015 #20

That is partially true. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #25

I'm more familiar with it on the investment side el_bryanto Mar 2015 #26

This message was self-deleted by its author A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #28

Oh, really? Care to elaborate? It only took the USSR about 15 years to put the first man into space KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #32

OK...I really have only one response to that completely absurd comparison. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #33

Typical . . . resort to insults and invective when you can't respond to KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #36

that is a good point treestar Mar 2015 #51

I meant only to note that the institution(s) of Wall Street and the investment banking KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #57

But are we sure they did not treestar Mar 2015 #59

Using the USSR as a paragon might be the greatest vindication of private capital imaginable. nt Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #64

Ah, the obligatory red-baiting. Refreshing, it is. - nt KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #66

The USSR: so efficient in its central planning that it doesn't exist anymore. Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #67

I'll bet you're all down with 10% of this country owning 80% of its KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #69

No, I'm down with 8 guys in a Politburo owning 100% of it. nt Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #70

Like I say, good old-fashioned red-baiting. Been around since at least KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #71

You trumpet the USSR and then accuse me of preferring wealth concentration. Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #73

It wasn't efficient in its planning. It did what we are doing now, in a slightly different way. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #94

Slapping my forhead or banging it against the wall is not an insult. (Edited) A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #53

The USSR managed to construct an enormous number of public works projects at the local and KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #62

The Trabant. nt Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #68

First of all, nowhere in this thread did I say investment banks were "absolutely necessary" A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #74

The USSR was operating under a command economy at that point, weren't they? el_bryanto Mar 2015 #55

I meant only to note that there is no writ in Holy Scripture for the institutions KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #58

Two votes oldandhappy Mar 2015 #4

Nothing that credit unions couldn't manage. moondust Mar 2015 #5

I think there are a small number of functions hughee99 Mar 2015 #6

I guess the concept of starting a business, building it up, Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #9

Is the roll of wall street/investment bankers necessary to accomplish that however? el_bryanto Mar 2015 #11

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about Kickstarter. Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #17

I'm not saying as it exists now it could replace them; but it could grow to fill that roll. nt el_bryanto Mar 2015 #18

I hear what you are saying, but that "new" entity would essentially be an investment banker. Hoyt Mar 2015 #37

Because Henry Ford was a banker. closeupready Mar 2015 #13

They do, but they've gone too far. jeff47 Mar 2015 #10

This is where I'm at. Xyzse Mar 2015 #16

What do you mean by "providing savings"? n/t A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #21

A place to put savings so that it can grow more than stuffing it in a mattress. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2015 #72

OK...fair enough. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #75

The interest comes from work. jeff47 Mar 2015 #78

I would add a couple words to the sentence in your title line; A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #91

They don't make capital, they are just a point of organization treestar Mar 2015 #45

Didn't say they made capital. They make capital available. jeff47 Mar 2015 #76

If charging a fee to move money from point A to point B serves a social purpose, then I suppose. closeupready Mar 2015 #12

How do you feel about truckers charging a fee to move food from the fields/packaging plants el_bryanto Mar 2015 #14

Because cash is edible and sustaining nutrition. closeupready Mar 2015 #22

OK - but the truckers are paid cash right? Or do you favor a cashless economy? nt el_bryanto Mar 2015 #24

Look. I get it. You're in banking. Check. And you disagree with me. closeupready Mar 2015 #30

Why are you so dismissive? I asked a follow up question and you responded with an eye roll el_bryanto Mar 2015 #31

Sorry. I apologize for my tone. closeupready Mar 2015 #41

I'm not in banking but I do use banks treestar Mar 2015 #43

Do I use banks? Yes, but if there were a viable alternative, I'd use it. closeupready Mar 2015 #49

It would be interesting to try to imagine those forms treestar Mar 2015 #60

Not a jibe at you, but I believe you demonstrate a lack of imagination here - closeupready Mar 2015 #65

What are those functioning members of the world economy treestar Mar 2015 #83

No offense, but I think I'm done here. I answered the OP's question, closeupready Mar 2015 #90

Do you like paved roads? A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #27

Because cash makes good asphalt - just add water! closeupready Mar 2015 #29

I know you're trying to be clever with your rapier wit and all..... A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #35

Your analogy is flawed. My response to you illustrated how. closeupready Mar 2015 #44

How is it flawed? A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #46

Your post illustrates why (as I responded to el bryanto) I didn't want to get into this. closeupready Mar 2015 #52

And you too. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #54

No. Just part of the pyramid scheme that is capitalism - TBF Mar 2015 #19

pyramid. PowerToThePeople Mar 2015 #23

^ this right here is perfect. nt TBF Mar 2015 #88

Not really. Or, the societal purpose they serve (allocating resources) could be KingCharlemagne Mar 2015 #34

Sadly, many retirement plans are dependent on them. So I said "yes" but could be better served Coventina Mar 2015 #38

That's the key point. Our economic system and standard of living right now are dependent on them Hoyt Mar 2015 #48

They are necessary as long as we are going to be a modern, complex society treestar Mar 2015 #39

Our "modern, complex society" sucks rotten eggs in so many ways. I'm certain we could do better. hunter Mar 2015 #42

We'd have to organize big things in some way though treestar Mar 2015 #61

The interstate highway system connects things up pretty well. hunter Mar 2015 #95

I'm a Socialist and my economics are radical. hunter Mar 2015 #40

imo, your economics are not radical PowerToThePeople Mar 2015 #50

of course - at least under any system that is going to be in place for the foreseeable future Douglas Carpenter Mar 2015 #47

Without investment bankers etc how many people would be able to afford homes until they Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #56

Yeah, let's make the world a million times less liquid and see how that works for you. Dreamer Tatum Mar 2015 #63

Well said and spot on. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2015 #87

They existed under FDR. They just have to be controlled and taxed like he did. n/t pampango Mar 2015 #77

But Kickstarter wasn't around back then (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #81

Does everything need a purpose? randome Mar 2015 #79

Yes having a hobby does serve a purpose el_bryanto Mar 2015 #84

With more than 300 million people in this country... randome Mar 2015 #92

Even under communist rules, Russia had a Central bank that exists to this day. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2015 #80

the poll is about investment banks and stock market. PowerToThePeople Mar 2015 #82

Yes, they serve a critical purpose in our economic system. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2015 #97

The only purpose they serve is to keep the rich rich. WDIM Mar 2015 #85

Of course-- particularly the commodities markets. Marr Mar 2015 #86

Yes, but they need to be adequately regulated. subterranean Mar 2015 #89

Nods - I don't know if many people here believe they shouldn't be more tightly regulated and el_bryanto Mar 2015 #98

Sorry, but that is two seperate questions. Does Wall Street serve a societal purpose? Rex Mar 2015 #93

Business ownership puts billions of $$ into society and makes many of the things listed in cbdo2007 Mar 2015 #96

Yes, unfortunately they favor concentrated wealth and power rather PufPuf23 Mar 2015 #99

Yes, but their reach and power have become so overgrown and distorted that TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #100

Yes, but they're overly centralized. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #101